http://www.court.nl.ca/supreme/appeal/judiciary.htm

contact information is on their as well.

gross.

Cindy,
Washington State, USA

Judges, lawyers and social workers can be charmed and played by these people but, that is NO excuse. They treated Turner as if she were the victim and knew somewhere deep inside themselves that her pitiful stories really didn't add up. They knew Zachary was in danger or might be and let their "heartstrings" be manipulated in a sick dance of a psychopath. Isn't Dr. Robert Hare from Canada???

Surely, these professionals saw the illness that was taking place before their eyes when they forced the Bagby's to share a kind of custody with their sons killer. They saw and did it anyway because of the power of "charm" these psychopaths have. It's no excuse. They should have known better or wanted to know better enough to find out before this already tragic situation played out to it's inevitable and horrific conclusion.

I could not get this film or these people out of my heart. Maybe we're not supposed to. Maybe we're supposed to learn more about these disordered people so that when we meet them in our daily life, jobs and social lives we will know how to handle them better…when to stay away, how to tell others before it's too late.

There were early signs with her but, a normal person will blow off those signs usually. She had all those children by different fathers and she did not have custody. She was in her forties and seemingly had not been given custody or did not want it. She already had left a string of brokeness behind her and she had a very cavilier *read: I don't feel anything about it and don't care* attitude.

God Bless, the Bagby's. Kate is right. She met evil. People like this are the definition of evil whether the professionals use that word or not. Good has won out in you David and Kate and for Andrew and Zachary's memory it will continue to.

As hard as this film is, it is a tribute that deserves to be seen. A tribute to Kate, David, Zachary, Andrew and all those who have loved them.

It will be a long time before the experience of seeing this film leaves me.

Regardless, it was a marvelous piece of film, well constructed, brilliantly told. I can't imagine tackling such a difficult goal: to tell the life of your best friend, the tragedy of his death, and the even greater tragedies to follow. I applaud Kurt for giving Andrew's parents, and Zachary himself, a voice that otherwise might have been lost forever.

To survive Andrew's loss, then have to play nice with his MURDERER to be able to see Zachary, then to have the utterly unthinkable happen because of the legal system's incompetence, THEN to pick themselves back up again and go out to work for change so it doesn't happen to someone else's kid? I'm staggered at their strength, resiliency, and generosity.

And I, too, did the whole, "Wow, what a bizarre coincidence that another adult and child died like that right then…wait – WHAT?!?" thing. I'd already cried for the Bagbys about three times, was like "No, you can't, you just CAN'T do that to them!" And when Kate totally broke down and David's saying "This is what she didn't know, what she was doing to us"…the horrible thing is, yeah, she did. That's exactly WHY she did it – to cause them that pain. She was fucking evil, and even Zachary knew it; when I think of those clips of him always going to Kate instead of her, it kills me.

(And "forgiveness"? [See the DVD extras, last deleted scene] Yeah. Not happening. I subscribe to the idea that forgiveness is something that can only be given, if you choose to, to the offender who ASKS for forgiveness, who actually recognizes the harm they have done and are contrite and willing to take the consequences. Our culture seem to have this Oprah-esque idea that we should forgive everything, and we're mean and unhealthy if we don't. Forgiveness needs to be earned, and even so, some things are just unforgiveable. Like, um, this.)

@George McRae, it's not Canada. Our system (the U.S.'s, that is) is just as messed up and if anything has more holes for children to fall through, and our courts are almost as slow. The bail laws in Newfoundland were part of the problem, but the prosecutor literally did NOTHING, and obviously that nightmare of a judge was the key issue. The problem with any system is that people, being fallible (and, apparently, completely insane themselves – did that judge think that murder/suicide threats, 8 restraining orders, and an actual premeditated murder were normal dating behavior? I'd like to talk to some of her exes…if any are still among us), will drop the ball either accidentally or purposefully. Checks and reviews can help, but often take far too long to actually help the child, and it's incredibly tough to get even a judge like that off the bench. Our system isn't doing any better than Canada's by any measure. Fear incompetence, red tape, cronyism, and greed wherever you find them, but fear not the Canadians! :)

Thanks for the (qualified) rec, Sars. I might not have seen it otherwise, and I'm glad I did. Tearstained, heartbroken, horrified, and glad. The truly amazing thing to me was that after all of that tragedy and grief, what I'm left with is a warm fuzzy feeling for the Bagbys, Kurt Kuenne, Andrew's friends, and pretty much everyone else shown in the film. There was so much love being expressed, so many lives involved, for joy and pain, such connection to each other and devotion to Andrew and Zachary's memories – ultimately, there was one horrific, selfish monster, and dozens of warm, loving, funny, brave, amazing people. May they all have long, happy lives that honor their friend and his son.

And while I understand the huge frustration over the Canadian authorities' mishandling of the case, what I want to know is, why the hell did the Pennsylvania State Police interview Turner over the phone? Why didn't they coordinate with the FBI and Iowa law enforcement to bring her in for questioning and confiscate her passport then, or at least notify the border to hold her if she tried to cross? If she'd never gotten out of the USA, none of the later events would have happened. There is blood on many hands here.

The Bagbys are truly amazing people, and I lost it all over again when Kurt revealed how he'd known when his film was done…when it became a love letter to them: Dear Kate and David,….