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	<title>Comments on: &quot;Did I act wrong? Am I a bad son?&quot;</title>
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	<description>better red than dead</description>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44231</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44231</guid>
		<description>@Crabby Apple Seed - THANK YOU for your comment. I know what DMC was getting at, but again with the judging! I am a mom of two under age 3, with a sister three time zones away - so my chance to talk to her is often at the store, or on a walk pushing the stroller (instead of while driving), when the kids are strapped in safely, and happily occupied watching people OTHER THAN ME for the first time all day.  

Anyway. Totally off topic, I know. But had to chime in esp. given the subject at hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crabby Apple Seed &#8211; THANK YOU for your comment. I know what DMC was getting at, but again with the judging! I am a mom of two under age 3, with a sister three time zones away &#8211; so my chance to talk to her is often at the store, or on a walk pushing the stroller (instead of while driving), when the kids are strapped in safely, and happily occupied watching people OTHER THAN ME for the first time all day.  </p>
<p>Anyway. Totally off topic, I know. But had to chime in esp. given the subject at hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyntada</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44214</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyntada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44214</guid>
		<description>&quot;Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.&quot;

That seems to explain a lot of trashy behavior. &quot;If it&#039;s her FAULT, and I never do what SHE did, then... that means the tragedy can&#039;t ever happen to ME! Let&#039;s figure out how it must be her fault, because Random=Scary.&quot; 

A fake-fur rabbit foot on your keys probably works just as well, and it&#039;s a lot kinder than defensively trashing those who do suffer from random, tragic things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.&#034;</p>
<p>That seems to explain a lot of trashy behavior. &#034;If it&#039;s her FAULT, and I never do what SHE did, then&#8230; that means the tragedy can&#039;t ever happen to ME! Let&#039;s figure out how it must be her fault, because Random=Scary.&#034; </p>
<p>A fake-fur rabbit foot on your keys probably works just as well, and it&#039;s a lot kinder than defensively trashing those who do suffer from random, tragic things.</p>
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		<title>By: Crabby Apple Seed</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44212</link>
		<dc:creator>Crabby Apple Seed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44212</guid>
		<description>@DMC- certainly, people can take the internet to extremes, but to play Devil&#039;s advocate, those moms you see on their cell phones while pushing their kids in strollers/shopping carts? Yes, kids are only kids once, but you don&#039;t know how the parents are spending the rest of their day. That might be their five minutes of adult conversation all day long, at a time when they feel their kids are safe (strapped in) and otherwise stimulated (watching other people, trees, cars, you name it). Although it seems off-topic to this debate, it&#039;s not. No matter how amazing it is (and it is truly amazing), mothering a toddler is incredibly demanding and isolating. Things need to be done, whether it&#039;s folding laundry or tending to your chicken coop, or even something as selfish as needing a few minutes of adult interaction to break up the day and not go completely batshit insane from forty rounds of throwing all the books on the floor, picking them up, and repeating the task, for example. 

I guess in the end, what it boils down to is, can we learn anything from this? Or are we just judging her so we can smugly tell ourselves we&#039;re better and it would never happen to us (as mentioned above), once again setting impossible-to-attain standards for mothers everywhere? I definitely don&#039;t think attacking people on the internet helps anyone, ever, and I think Madison McGraw deserves a serious kick in the shins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DMC- certainly, people can take the internet to extremes, but to play Devil&#039;s advocate, those moms you see on their cell phones while pushing their kids in strollers/shopping carts? Yes, kids are only kids once, but you don&#039;t know how the parents are spending the rest of their day. That might be their five minutes of adult conversation all day long, at a time when they feel their kids are safe (strapped in) and otherwise stimulated (watching other people, trees, cars, you name it). Although it seems off-topic to this debate, it&#039;s not. No matter how amazing it is (and it is truly amazing), mothering a toddler is incredibly demanding and isolating. Things need to be done, whether it&#039;s folding laundry or tending to your chicken coop, or even something as selfish as needing a few minutes of adult interaction to break up the day and not go completely batshit insane from forty rounds of throwing all the books on the floor, picking them up, and repeating the task, for example. </p>
<p>I guess in the end, what it boils down to is, can we learn anything from this? Or are we just judging her so we can smugly tell ourselves we&#039;re better and it would never happen to us (as mentioned above), once again setting impossible-to-attain standards for mothers everywhere? I definitely don&#039;t think attacking people on the internet helps anyone, ever, and I think Madison McGraw deserves a serious kick in the shins.</p>
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		<title>By: DMC</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44155</link>
		<dc:creator>DMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44155</guid>
		<description>I do think there&#039;s something to be said WRT the Twittering just prior to the child&#039;s death. The timing of her posts is downright creepy and definitely heartbreaking when you realize that, as she is telling the world about the chicken coops, her child is losing life in the backyard pool. You&#039;re so right, Sars, that toddlers get into mischief and that&#039;s precisely why they do need to be watched and kept safe at all times - especially if you have a backyard pool.

But make no mistake - I find no &quot;satisfaction&quot; in what has happened to this family and I have no anger for this poor mother. My heart goes out to her entirely - she is living every parent&#039;s worst possible nightmare. I wouldn&#039;t wish what she&#039;s going through on anyone. 

But if we&#039;re going to talk about being judgmental I will confess that I do judge the distraction that the Internet and technology in general provide. Texting while driving or twittering instead of supervising a small child have obvious potentially negative consequences, but there is a more subtle done damage as well. For example, I watch mothers pushing their youngsters in strollers and shopping carts, all the while absorbed in their cell phone or text messaging and realize these golden opportunities to engage and connect with their child are slipping right through their fingers. It is all too easy to let ourselves lose sight of those right in front of us in favor of those that exist in our computers and telephones - and one way or another, our children leave us all too soon.

As for the bit about Hicking that you posted, I completely agree. I absolutely believe that the nastier judgmental comments we see in situations like this are nothing more that self-preservation. After all, if I can find fault with something you did which resulted in That Terrible Thing What Happened To You, then I can protect myself from that same fate. The fact that bad things can and do - randomly, even - happen to US and not &quot;other people&quot; is a very uncomfortable thing. No less true, however.

That said, some things are obviously preventable. Whether the tragedy we&#039;re discussing was preventable or random or not is where the heart of the debate lies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think there&#039;s something to be said WRT the Twittering just prior to the child&#039;s death. The timing of her posts is downright creepy and definitely heartbreaking when you realize that, as she is telling the world about the chicken coops, her child is losing life in the backyard pool. You&#039;re so right, Sars, that toddlers get into mischief and that&#039;s precisely why they do need to be watched and kept safe at all times &#8211; especially if you have a backyard pool.</p>
<p>But make no mistake &#8211; I find no &#034;satisfaction&#034; in what has happened to this family and I have no anger for this poor mother. My heart goes out to her entirely &#8211; she is living every parent&#039;s worst possible nightmare. I wouldn&#039;t wish what she&#039;s going through on anyone. </p>
<p>But if we&#039;re going to talk about being judgmental I will confess that I do judge the distraction that the Internet and technology in general provide. Texting while driving or twittering instead of supervising a small child have obvious potentially negative consequences, but there is a more subtle done damage as well. For example, I watch mothers pushing their youngsters in strollers and shopping carts, all the while absorbed in their cell phone or text messaging and realize these golden opportunities to engage and connect with their child are slipping right through their fingers. It is all too easy to let ourselves lose sight of those right in front of us in favor of those that exist in our computers and telephones &#8211; and one way or another, our children leave us all too soon.</p>
<p>As for the bit about Hicking that you posted, I completely agree. I absolutely believe that the nastier judgmental comments we see in situations like this are nothing more that self-preservation. After all, if I can find fault with something you did which resulted in That Terrible Thing What Happened To You, then I can protect myself from that same fate. The fact that bad things can and do &#8211; randomly, even &#8211; happen to US and not &#034;other people&#034; is a very uncomfortable thing. No less true, however.</p>
<p>That said, some things are obviously preventable. Whether the tragedy we&#039;re discussing was preventable or random or not is where the heart of the debate lies.</p>
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		<title>By: Vanessa H</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44110</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanessa H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44110</guid>
		<description>I tend to think that judging other people&#039;s actions in general is a sign of insecurity. Why would it occur to anyone that simply tweeting would have to mean that the tweeter was being a neglectful mother? It wouldn&#039;t to me unless I had been pretty neglectful of something while distracted by twitter/facebook/the phone, whatever.

The judging of others when they are experiencing a trauma seems especially tempting and troubling. Not just in this type of situation, but the police do it all the time. IIRC, Amanda Knox initially became a suspect in her roommate&#039;s murder due to her behavior at the scene. If you read about wrongful convictions enough, it becomes a harrowing theme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to think that judging other people&#039;s actions in general is a sign of insecurity. Why would it occur to anyone that simply tweeting would have to mean that the tweeter was being a neglectful mother? It wouldn&#039;t to me unless I had been pretty neglectful of something while distracted by twitter/facebook/the phone, whatever.</p>
<p>The judging of others when they are experiencing a trauma seems especially tempting and troubling. Not just in this type of situation, but the police do it all the time. IIRC, Amanda Knox initially became a suspect in her roommate&#039;s murder due to her behavior at the scene. If you read about wrongful convictions enough, it becomes a harrowing theme.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah D. Bunting</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44104</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah D. Bunting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44104</guid>
		<description>From the WaPo article cited earlier (which, while I don&#039;t regret reading it, is as tough as advertised):

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hickling is a clinical psychologist from Albany, N.Y., who has studied the effects of fatal auto accidents on the drivers who survive them. He says these people are often judged with disproportionate harshness by the public, even when it was clearly an accident, and even when it was indisputably not their fault.

Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the WaPo article cited earlier (which, while I don&#039;t regret reading it, is as tough as advertised):</p>
<blockquote><p>Hickling is a clinical psychologist from Albany, N.Y., who has studied the effects of fatal auto accidents on the drivers who survive them. He says these people are often judged with disproportionate harshness by the public, even when it was clearly an accident, and even when it was indisputably not their fault.</p>
<p>Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Suzanne M</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44087</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44087</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what gets me: We know what she was doing when the accident happened, and sitting around in her living room glued to Twitter and neglecting her kids isn&#039;t it. She tweeted from the chicken coop she was working on (a full 16 minutes before the 911 call came in, too). She was doing work that needed to get done and her older son was apparently keeping an eye on the toddler. But, horror of horrors, she had the gall to also use Twitter, so she must be some frivolous narcissist who shouldn&#039;t be allowed to have kids.

I don&#039;t have words for the disgust I feel towards people like Madison McGraw. Ross was going about her day as if it were any other day. That it turned out to be the day when this horrible thing happened is no reason to judge her. But even if McGraw wants to be all Judgey McJudgerson... To publicly blast Ross while she&#039;s grieving her newly dead son? That just takes it to a whole new level of disgusting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#039;s what gets me: We know what she was doing when the accident happened, and sitting around in her living room glued to Twitter and neglecting her kids isn&#039;t it. She tweeted from the chicken coop she was working on (a full 16 minutes before the 911 call came in, too). She was doing work that needed to get done and her older son was apparently keeping an eye on the toddler. But, horror of horrors, she had the gall to also use Twitter, so she must be some frivolous narcissist who shouldn&#039;t be allowed to have kids.</p>
<p>I don&#039;t have words for the disgust I feel towards people like Madison McGraw. Ross was going about her day as if it were any other day. That it turned out to be the day when this horrible thing happened is no reason to judge her. But even if McGraw wants to be all Judgey McJudgerson&#8230; To publicly blast Ross while she&#039;s grieving her newly dead son? That just takes it to a whole new level of disgusting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44082</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44082</guid>
		<description>We currently live in a town I hate, in which we are fairly isolated despite 3 years of attempts not to be so. In lieu of an actual social life, I spend a certain amount of time every day online. I&#039;m a stay-at-home mom, so it&#039;s really my only contact with other adults, until my husband gets home from the Marine base where he works. Ms. Ross&#039;s husband, being on active duty and IIRC ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FRICKIN&#039; WORLD, can&#039;t be there for her, so I can only imagine how much she needed Twitter/FB/lots of other contact. It gets lonely. 

Add to that the fact that (as several people have pointed out) kids, particularly toddlers, are speedy little devils, and you never know what they&#039;re going to do or how or when. The idea of a toddler splashing around and screaming and being ignored by his self-indulgent, uninvolved mother is likely NOWHERE NEAR what actually happened. When a small child goes under, they go under quickly and quietly--hence the &quot;We couldn&#039;t find him, and then someone spotted him on the bottom of the pool&quot; scenarios that play out all too often. 

I&#039;d say that I hope McGraw experiences something similar someday, just because it&#039;s likely that would be the only thing that would knock SOME modicum of sense or humility into her, but I wouldn&#039;t wish that on anyone, no matter how much of a Massengill Value-Pack she is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We currently live in a town I hate, in which we are fairly isolated despite 3 years of attempts not to be so. In lieu of an actual social life, I spend a certain amount of time every day online. I&#039;m a stay-at-home mom, so it&#039;s really my only contact with other adults, until my husband gets home from the Marine base where he works. Ms. Ross&#039;s husband, being on active duty and IIRC ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FRICKIN&#039; WORLD, can&#039;t be there for her, so I can only imagine how much she needed Twitter/FB/lots of other contact. It gets lonely. </p>
<p>Add to that the fact that (as several people have pointed out) kids, particularly toddlers, are speedy little devils, and you never know what they&#039;re going to do or how or when. The idea of a toddler splashing around and screaming and being ignored by his self-indulgent, uninvolved mother is likely NOWHERE NEAR what actually happened. When a small child goes under, they go under quickly and quietly&#8211;hence the &#034;We couldn&#039;t find him, and then someone spotted him on the bottom of the pool&#034; scenarios that play out all too often. </p>
<p>I&#039;d say that I hope McGraw experiences something similar someday, just because it&#039;s likely that would be the only thing that would knock SOME modicum of sense or humility into her, but I wouldn&#039;t wish that on anyone, no matter how much of a Massengill Value-Pack she is.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44080</guid>
		<description>Along the lines of second-guessing parents in the wake of horrific tragedies is the Gene Weingarten &lt;I&gt;Washington Post Magazine&lt;/i&gt; piece that ran in March, about parents who accidentally leave their kids to die in locked cars. That&#039;s not a two-minute lapse; that&#039;s hours of not realizing the kid was still in the car. And yet the article goes on to explain how this could happen to people who are otherwise conscious, loving parents. 

I&#039;m not going to link to it, because it is seriously hard reading -- I could read it before I gave birth but I don&#039;t think I could now. But it should be easily found. And iit&#039;s an excellent, excellent piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along the lines of second-guessing parents in the wake of horrific tragedies is the Gene Weingarten <i>Washington Post Magazine</i> piece that ran in March, about parents who accidentally leave their kids to die in locked cars. That&#039;s not a two-minute lapse; that&#039;s hours of not realizing the kid was still in the car. And yet the article goes on to explain how this could happen to people who are otherwise conscious, loving parents. </p>
<p>I&#039;m not going to link to it, because it is seriously hard reading &#8212; I could read it before I gave birth but I don&#039;t think I could now. But it should be easily found. And iit&#039;s an excellent, excellent piece.</p>
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		<title>By: tulip</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/did-i-act-wrong-am-i-a-bad-son/comment-page-1/#comment-44073</link>
		<dc:creator>tulip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=4272#comment-44073</guid>
		<description>&quot;2) let&#039;s set impossible expectations for parents and then show no compassion when they fail to meet these standards.&quot;

Yeah that&#039;s called parenting in the world unfortunately. That&#039;s what struck me about the whole sad story was that, regardless of the monster du jour (twitter, facebook, having a drink at a playdate...ad infinitum), this is at it&#039;s core an indictment of Shellie Ross as a mother. As Sarah points out she could have been peeing, or reading a book, or opening the door with her hands full and the same exact thing could have happened. Horrible tragic accidents happen and they happened hundreds of years ago and will continue to happen in the future. 
It really makes me sick to my stomach that actual real people can be so cruel to other actual real people especially in their hours of need. I think that people tend to forget that the name on the screen is attached to a human being. I&#039;m with Jessica on that circle of hell being full of people like Madison McGraw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;2) let&#039;s set impossible expectations for parents and then show no compassion when they fail to meet these standards.&#034;</p>
<p>Yeah that&#039;s called parenting in the world unfortunately. That&#039;s what struck me about the whole sad story was that, regardless of the monster du jour (twitter, facebook, having a drink at a playdate&#8230;ad infinitum), this is at it&#039;s core an indictment of Shellie Ross as a mother. As Sarah points out she could have been peeing, or reading a book, or opening the door with her hands full and the same exact thing could have happened. Horrible tragic accidents happen and they happened hundreds of years ago and will continue to happen in the future.<br />
It really makes me sick to my stomach that actual real people can be so cruel to other actual real people especially in their hours of need. I think that people tend to forget that the name on the screen is attached to a human being. I&#039;m with Jessica on that circle of hell being full of people like Madison McGraw.</p>
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