<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The bitter end</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/</link>
	<description>better red than dead</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 21:59:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Margaret in CO</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35791</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret in CO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35791</guid>
		<description>@Jaybird: I know, huh? Hear that whooshing noise? MJ spinning in his grave. (Except he&#039;s not in his grave yet, because of a second autopsy, and because all the drama hasn&#039;t been milked out of it...)
Those poor babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jaybird: I know, huh? Hear that whooshing noise? MJ spinning in his grave. (Except he&#039;s not in his grave yet, because of a second autopsy, and because all the drama hasn&#039;t been milked out of it&#8230;)<br />
Those poor babies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35614</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35614</guid>
		<description>GREAT. I just read that MJ&#039;s parents have demanded, and received, temporary custody of the kids. I wonder--if it really IS temporary, will it be long enough for them to screw up the kids&#039; heads? I mean, screw them up MORE? Because they did such a fabulous job with their own kids; by all means, let&#039;s let them have a shot at driving the new generation bughouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GREAT. I just read that MJ&#039;s parents have demanded, and received, temporary custody of the kids. I wonder&#8211;if it really IS temporary, will it be long enough for them to screw up the kids&#039; heads? I mean, screw them up MORE? Because they did such a fabulous job with their own kids; by all means, let&#039;s let them have a shot at driving the new generation bughouse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grainger</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35604</link>
		<dc:creator>Grainger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35604</guid>
		<description>@Sars: &quot;I think that, past a certain point in fame that huge, it&#039;s no longer possible to threaten them with turning your back on them, because they&#039;ll find someone else...&quot;

You covered this in one of your GBC posts, I think; although there it was more referring to Tom Cruise, and also Bill Cosby. It&#039;s that &quot;critical fame level&quot; where you&#039;re famous enough that, when you fire someone, the public interprets it as their failing and not your tantrum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sars: &#034;I think that, past a certain point in fame that huge, it&#039;s no longer possible to threaten them with turning your back on them, because they&#039;ll find someone else&#8230;&#034;</p>
<p>You covered this in one of your GBC posts, I think; although there it was more referring to Tom Cruise, and also Bill Cosby. It&#039;s that &#034;critical fame level&#034; where you&#039;re famous enough that, when you fire someone, the public interprets it as their failing and not your tantrum.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 45 is the new 30</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35578</link>
		<dc:creator>45 is the new 30</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35578</guid>
		<description>Back in the early &#039;70s, I remember dancing to Rockin&#039; Robin and ABC during 6th grade &quot;indoor recess&quot; when the weather was too miserable to go outside. Back then, for so many of us preadolescent and adolescent girls there was the Holy Trinity of Michael, Donny, and Davy (Jones) (with Bobby Sherman standing next in line); it&#039;s notable, though, that this suburban, middle-class, white, Jewish east coast chick harbored the biggest crush on the African American kid with the sparkling eyes and the soaring afro hair from Gary, Indiana. Back then, so ironically in retrospect, he was our &quot;kid next door&quot; ... the adorable, feisty, effervescent lead singer with the incredible dance moves whose music just made us get up and &quot;boogie&quot;. 

As MJ and I both aged, and he became more eccentric and infamous, I drifted away from what I would deem &quot;fan-dom&quot;. I found myself having a difficult time compartmentalizing the man from the musician; while there was no denying his exceptional talent as a performer, musician, and businessperson, for me his personal life and various legal (Bubbles the chimp? Hyperbaric chamber? Facial demolition?) and illegal alleged proclivities began to overshadow his music. There was also the fact that he annoited himself the &quot;King of Pop&quot;, as that he went all &quot;George Forman&quot; and giving all three of his kids some semblance of his own name (including his daughter); I just couldn&#039;t stomach the hubris that all of that implied. 

It&#039;s difficult for me to think of Michael Jackson as a &quot;victim&quot;; at what point do we become responsible for our current reality, despite what our past rained down upon us? I do agree that he was a tragic figure, and that his fame precluded honest relationships with people he could trust; I also concur that his parents (his dad in particular) is/was a selfish, abusive man who helped set the stage for what MJ would become. Having said all of that, his death - which, for me, was also the death of someone my in own age cohort - has hit me much harder than I would have predicted. I&#039;m glad that he is finally at peace, and in a place where no one wants anything from him any longer, And I hope that - somehow - MJ&#039;s kids are able to have something resembling a healthy, happy childhood, and that their memories of their father comfort them in their grief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the early &#039;70s, I remember dancing to Rockin&#039; Robin and ABC during 6th grade &#034;indoor recess&#034; when the weather was too miserable to go outside. Back then, for so many of us preadolescent and adolescent girls there was the Holy Trinity of Michael, Donny, and Davy (Jones) (with Bobby Sherman standing next in line); it&#039;s notable, though, that this suburban, middle-class, white, Jewish east coast chick harbored the biggest crush on the African American kid with the sparkling eyes and the soaring afro hair from Gary, Indiana. Back then, so ironically in retrospect, he was our &#034;kid next door&#034; &#8230; the adorable, feisty, effervescent lead singer with the incredible dance moves whose music just made us get up and &#034;boogie&#034;. </p>
<p>As MJ and I both aged, and he became more eccentric and infamous, I drifted away from what I would deem &#034;fan-dom&#034;. I found myself having a difficult time compartmentalizing the man from the musician; while there was no denying his exceptional talent as a performer, musician, and businessperson, for me his personal life and various legal (Bubbles the chimp? Hyperbaric chamber? Facial demolition?) and illegal alleged proclivities began to overshadow his music. There was also the fact that he annoited himself the &#034;King of Pop&#034;, as that he went all &#034;George Forman&#034; and giving all three of his kids some semblance of his own name (including his daughter); I just couldn&#039;t stomach the hubris that all of that implied. </p>
<p>It&#039;s difficult for me to think of Michael Jackson as a &#034;victim&#034;; at what point do we become responsible for our current reality, despite what our past rained down upon us? I do agree that he was a tragic figure, and that his fame precluded honest relationships with people he could trust; I also concur that his parents (his dad in particular) is/was a selfish, abusive man who helped set the stage for what MJ would become. Having said all of that, his death &#8211; which, for me, was also the death of someone my in own age cohort &#8211; has hit me much harder than I would have predicted. I&#039;m glad that he is finally at peace, and in a place where no one wants anything from him any longer, And I hope that &#8211; somehow &#8211; MJ&#039;s kids are able to have something resembling a healthy, happy childhood, and that their memories of their father comfort them in their grief.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ix</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35548</link>
		<dc:creator>Ix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35548</guid>
		<description>I think I was too young - that, and a bit too self-absorbed, maybe - to really ever have &quot;known&quot; Jackson. Not the way kids who actually grew up in the 70s and 80s did; I was only two, by the time 1990 rolled around. Far too young to have seen the music videos, or heard his songs (save on the radio).

Mostly, I knew him as the weirdo man-child who&#039;d had too many plastic surgeries, and brought children to his ranch without any other adults around, and was alleged to act inappropriately around them. 

But that doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m not saddened by his death. You could see how much potential he&#039;d had - how much he could still do...if he just...
But it&#039;s too late now. And it&#039;s sad, that a lot of people aren&#039;t going to remember him for his music - but for his behaviour, post-1985; he deserves a better legacy than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I was too young &#8211; that, and a bit too self-absorbed, maybe &#8211; to really ever have &#034;known&#034; Jackson. Not the way kids who actually grew up in the 70s and 80s did; I was only two, by the time 1990 rolled around. Far too young to have seen the music videos, or heard his songs (save on the radio).</p>
<p>Mostly, I knew him as the weirdo man-child who&#039;d had too many plastic surgeries, and brought children to his ranch without any other adults around, and was alleged to act inappropriately around them. </p>
<p>But that doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m not saddened by his death. You could see how much potential he&#039;d had &#8211; how much he could still do&#8230;if he just&#8230;<br />
But it&#039;s too late now. And it&#039;s sad, that a lot of people aren&#039;t going to remember him for his music &#8211; but for his behaviour, post-1985; he deserves a better legacy than that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alivicwil</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35544</link>
		<dc:creator>alivicwil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35544</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Tulip...

I was a little young for Michael Jackson, I think (I was born in 1979). Or else I was too busy listening to my parents LPs from the 1960s to really get into him. I&#039;ll get up and dance my arse off when an MJ song comes on at a club, but I&#039;ve never considered myself a fan. 

Of course, I found the news sad. I feel for everything that Jackson has lost over the years, and for his children. But I wasn&#039;t upset.

But, dammit, Sars... You just made me cry. (I&#039;ve lost count of how many times you&#039;ve done that!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m with Tulip&#8230;</p>
<p>I was a little young for Michael Jackson, I think (I was born in 1979). Or else I was too busy listening to my parents LPs from the 1960s to really get into him. I&#039;ll get up and dance my arse off when an MJ song comes on at a club, but I&#039;ve never considered myself a fan. </p>
<p>Of course, I found the news sad. I feel for everything that Jackson has lost over the years, and for his children. But I wasn&#039;t upset.</p>
<p>But, dammit, Sars&#8230; You just made me cry. (I&#039;ve lost count of how many times you&#039;ve done that!)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pippi</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35543</link>
		<dc:creator>Pippi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35543</guid>
		<description>&quot;there&#039;s just so much STUFF&quot;

One of my lecturers once described him as the great interlocutor between our binaries, as someone who was both and neither black or white, beautiful or hideous, adult or child, innocent or guilty. Perhaps this might partly explain what makes the strangeness of his death so difficult to locate, culturally speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;there&#039;s just so much STUFF&#034;</p>
<p>One of my lecturers once described him as the great interlocutor between our binaries, as someone who was both and neither black or white, beautiful or hideous, adult or child, innocent or guilty. Perhaps this might partly explain what makes the strangeness of his death so difficult to locate, culturally speaking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tulip</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35514</link>
		<dc:creator>tulip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35514</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don&#039;t apologize for liking his music, or excuse anything else he did, but I have to wonder what the autopsy will say about his heart, and if it just broke, in the end.&quot;

It&#039;s things like this that make me say, &quot;Damn she is an amazing writer&quot;. Nicely said and with the added effect of making me cry. (That&#039;s twice in one day! Good shootin&#039; Sars!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;I don&#039;t apologize for liking his music, or excuse anything else he did, but I have to wonder what the autopsy will say about his heart, and if it just broke, in the end.&#034;</p>
<p>It&#039;s things like this that make me say, &#034;Damn she is an amazing writer&#034;. Nicely said and with the added effect of making me cry. (That&#039;s twice in one day! Good shootin&#039; Sars!)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RJ</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35496</link>
		<dc:creator>RJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35496</guid>
		<description>The more I read, the more convinced I become that Jackson was an amalgam of &quot;desperately trying to find and hold on to childhood innocence/musical genius &amp; performer/sharp businessman/confused adolescent.&quot; 

Also, I don&#039;t know if it was true or not, but I remember reading that Joe Jackson actually gave Michael some kind of hormones to keep his voice high. If it was true, then it could have wreaked all kinds of havoc on his body (although again, that could have been a wild tabloid story). I do believe that Jackson would have done anything necessary to keep his kids earning money.

What a beast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more I read, the more convinced I become that Jackson was an amalgam of &#034;desperately trying to find and hold on to childhood innocence/musical genius &amp; performer/sharp businessman/confused adolescent.&#034; </p>
<p>Also, I don&#039;t know if it was true or not, but I remember reading that Joe Jackson actually gave Michael some kind of hormones to keep his voice high. If it was true, then it could have wreaked all kinds of havoc on his body (although again, that could have been a wild tabloid story). I do believe that Jackson would have done anything necessary to keep his kids earning money.</p>
<p>What a beast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeanne</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/the-bitter-end/comment-page-2/#comment-35495</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=3354#comment-35495</guid>
		<description>Seeing footage of him as a kid is just so damn depressing, it&#039;s so hard to believe that the cute energetic kid from Indiana with awesome pipes would turn out the way he did. It&#039;s sad that he became such a freakish person and no one had the balls to try to stop it. I just wonder how it might&#039;ve been if he&#039;d had some serious therapy or other kind of intervention as a young man, if he could&#039;ve been a well-adjusted adult.

I loved him when I was a kid. I remember quite vividly parking myself in front of the TV with my brother for almost all of his music video premieres in the late 80s/early 90s, I remember watching the original ending to Black or White and thinking, &quot;What the hell was that?&quot; That was when the love started to die I think. I didn&#039;t understand why he felt the need to grab his crotch so much, and then he started looking weirder and weirder and then the molestation charges...I lost all respect for him as a human being. It was like part of my childhood had died and I was still just a kid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing footage of him as a kid is just so damn depressing, it&#039;s so hard to believe that the cute energetic kid from Indiana with awesome pipes would turn out the way he did. It&#039;s sad that he became such a freakish person and no one had the balls to try to stop it. I just wonder how it might&#039;ve been if he&#039;d had some serious therapy or other kind of intervention as a young man, if he could&#039;ve been a well-adjusted adult.</p>
<p>I loved him when I was a kid. I remember quite vividly parking myself in front of the TV with my brother for almost all of his music video premieres in the late 80s/early 90s, I remember watching the original ending to Black or White and thinking, &#034;What the hell was that?&#034; That was when the love started to die I think. I didn&#039;t understand why he felt the need to grab his crotch so much, and then he started looking weirder and weirder and then the molestation charges&#8230;I lost all respect for him as a human being. It was like part of my childhood had died and I was still just a kid.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

