The Vine: August 12, 2009
Hi, Sarah —
I’ve found the perfect job opportunity — a museum curatorial and research assistant position in a musical subject area. I have a BM in music and a BA in theater, curatorial/research summer positions at two museums, library cataloguing experience, a passion for the subject, lots of geeky research and classification expertise, and lots of volunteer/hobby work that relates to the subject. It’s so perfect for me it hurts.
The problem is that I lack the requested three professional references. I can give one good one (former library supervisor and current musical coworker who forwarded me the job posting) and one okay one (current choir director for paid soloist position), and then I fall apart.
My museum jobs were summer positions 12 and 21 years ago, respectively, and the people I worked for have moved on to other institutions (I don’t know where). My theater professors are from 1987-1991, and most have retired or passed on.
My volunteer work has been with a living history group, where I founded a choir that’s in its tenth year, taught, wrote, performed, and filled all sorts of offices; and creating a convention for a fashion doll and cartoon fandom, which is now in its fifth year and drawing an international crowd. As real as the skills I developed in those groups are, the wacky contexts seem like reference/résumé poison, although I am able to bring them up in more standard-sounding ways in interviews.
My music professors from 1999-2003 would have to mention how I completely failed as a music teacher (depressed introverts with broken ankles are bad first-year teachers, no matter how well they know the subject) — and the most relevant one, for whom I’ve been researching and writing program notes for two years, is someone I don’t get along with personally, though he likes my (unpaid) work. I don’t know if I can trust him to be objective about my skills.
I’ve been doing administrative temp work out of desperation for most of my working life, including a current assignment that’s lasted almost two years. My boss thinks I’m great and would like to hire me permanently, and I trust him, but I hate to use him as a reference because focusing on my being an admin highlights the central failure of my life rather than my relevant qualifications.
That failure is largely because I’m severely depressed and have burned through all the medications and several therapists without success. I’ve survived and stayed employed and fought to be functional, and I’ve managed to maintain some amazing friends and live on my own and not become an addict and keep the demons quiet with the hobbies and performing and volunteer work, and that has eaten up all my energy and drive. I know that I have to own up to my cruddy job history, but I also know I can’t mention the depression, which I think makes me look really, really shady. Nearly 40, great academic credentials, great performing experience, periodic flashes of drive and talent — and I’ve been a temp secretary all this time?
So — if I have to choose between the questionable professor and my temp boss as a reference, who’s the better risk?
And how do I finesse the career fallout of the depression? Every non-temp interview I’ve had in the last 15 years brings up the discrepancy, and the previously effective gloss of “I haven’t found the perfect job yet and like the flexibility” seems inappropriate at this stage of my life.
Sorry for all the parentheses,
Trying to be a phoenix
Dear Phoenix,
I would go with the temp boss; your admin experience is more relevant to the position you want than you seem to think.Research assistants do a lot of administrative work, so the same strengths apply — and interest in the particular field isn’t necessarily what they’ll hire on, as much as the ability to gather and organize information.
On top of that, you’ll just waste unnecessary energy stressing over what the professor is going to say, so I’d ask the guy who’s going to give you a for-sure positive recommendation.
The depression itself isn’t something I’d focus on, as far as your contact with your hoped-for employer; in fact, I’d resist as much as possible the urge to jump out in front of that.If the gaps in your c.v. come up in the interview, explain that you in fact haven’t found the perfect job yet, and while you realize that holding out has had its price, you considered it a worthwhile risk…and that also you’ve had some health problems that interfered with your ability to craft an unbroken career arc.Don’t specify; don’t apologize.Adopt a regretful tone and keep it short.
If you’re qualified for the job, you’re qualified for the job, and it’s not really their business why you’re applying for it at nearly 40 instead of 25.People have problems; shit happens.You wouldn’t beat yourself up to this extent if you had some other chronic illness, I suspect, and you shouldn’t do it over the depression, either; you did what you had to do to get through.You also did a couple of jobs you kind of sucked at, as have we all.
But you should rehearse yourself so that your first instinct, after the small talk, is not to start apologizing for and overexplaining that part of your life, because it’s not the depression itself that would give them pause, I don’t think, but rather your need to tag yourself with it.
I mean, it’s not irrelevant, but give them a chance to give you a chance.Depression isn’t “shady”; it’s depression.Focus on your accomplishments so that HR can do the same.
I am a longtime lover of the site, your writings (I used to read Dawson’s Wrap!), and your advice. I’ve trolled and trolled The Vine for friendship advice akin to what I’m about to ask, and if it’s there, I haven’t found it.
I’ve been friends with someone very special and dear to me for about 10 years. In my mind, she is one of a kind, immensely intelligent, well-read (even that is a huge understatement), great taste in music, totally hilarious and gorgeous, all that jazz. But for the past year and a half, she’s been blowing me off.
I’ve sent messages, texts, ran into her randomly and reciprocated the whole “Yeah! Let’s get together! Really, let’s do that.” But it became pretty obvious that even though she could call or text or message or email or come by (we live in the same neighborhood), she was not doing any one of those things but just (drunkenly, usually) telling me she loves me and misses me, and, of course “let’s get together, REALLY.” Then nothing.
After feeling hurt, wondering why, doing the whole thing, finally agreed with myself that if this person did not have the maturity or moxie to tell me why she didn’t want to hang out with me (a year is way too long to have just been “busy”), then I wasn’t going to analyze it. It was Her Problem, not My Problem, and sadly resigned myself to losing a friend rather than have a confrontation with someone I know very well will run and hide, if confronted, and has. She disappeared from my life before, we had plans to get an apartment together, and only years later found out why (it had nothing to do with me).
Cut to recently where I got a two-sentence email from her, saying a certain singer reminds her of me (?) and “where are you?”
Well, “where I am,” is having the worst time of my life, in every single facet. I have held her crying over boys, I have picked her up when her car was broken down, I have made her dinner, I have hung out with her and her family, I have been there to save her, I have invited her over and made several attempts over the last year to get together.
Point is, if I’m going to fight for this friendship, now is my opportunity to say WTF. Seriously. I’m going through what is legitimately horrible on all fronts for anyone and haven’t heard from you in a year and a half, what is up with that.
OR…or. I think I’m at the point of wondering “well then what kind of so-called friend is she,” but if there’s anything that I have done, and can learn from that, I’d like the opportunity to hear it.
Also, and I am of course hurt and confused, this is my chance to voice that rather than hanging on to said hurt and confusion. I’m just not sure that I’m the one that needs to be learning how to be better (especially given how low my life is right now) or doing the confronting, instead of saying screw it, if this is your version of friendship, I don’t need it.
Need your analysis ’cause mine is driving me insane
Dear Need,
Say WTF.Seriously.I would give her a pass on the part where she’s not there for you right now specifically, because she has no way of knowing what you’ve gone through recently, but…whose fault is that, in the end?It’s hers.You’ve made the effort, she hasn’t, and that in and of itself is hurtful to you, but not necessarily “bad” or “wrong” — just one of those things that happens in friendships sometimes, that they peter out.
But for her to get all “where have you been?”…enhhhh no thanks.Tell her exactly what you just wrote to me: you were there for her, she disappeared, now you’re tits-high in the weeds and she wants to know where you’ve gone — she can check herself.You miss her and everything, but if she wants to know “where you are,” she can pick up a damn phone and ask.
And then so maybe she runs and hides, in which case you’re no worse off, really, are you?
I don’t think you have to tell her that you’re done — unless you really are — but sometimes people really don’t get that their behavior has certain effects until they’re told in so many words.Maybe she’ll pull it together, maybe she won’t, but at least you’ll have had your say either way.
Hi Sars,
I’ve got a writing dilemma.
Basically, I want to write but can’t. Not in the staring-hopelessly-at-the-blank-page sense, though; it’s more that I just can’t find a way to make the logistics work right now. I have the idea, the work space, and the support from my lovely husband, so I’m very lucky in all those respects, but it’s the lack of time that’s totally killing me.
After working all day, hitting up the gym for a bit, grabbing dinner, handling a few chores, and catching up with the husband and kitties, I find myself with maybe an hour left to devote to writing before it’s time to fall into bed. And while I know that even an hour a day can add up, I’m having a really hard time making my writing brain work in these one-hour chunks.
The last time I did any writing, I was in college and life was very different. I had the option to just sit and think and play with ideas for hours at a time, and usually an hour or two into the process, the paragraphs and pages would start to flow. It was pretty awesome, and looking back, I wish I’d taken better advantage of the situation.
I think my creative mind got used to that kind of lax timeline, however, so it’s totally not cooperating in this new reality of grown-up responsibilities and other time commitments. When I retreat to my little office in the evenings for my precious hour of writing time, the hour is often over before I’ve really found my footing and figured out what I want to work on for the night.
So, I guess my question is: what can I do to make this work? How can I retrain myself to be more productive in the limited time that I do have available? Quitting my job, giving up the chores, and packing the cats off to their kitty-grandma’s house aren’t really options (tempting as they may be) — nor is giving up the writing, because this idea will make me crazy if I do — so I have to find some way to reset my brain and work with what I’ve got.
The creative frustration is starting to make me feel like some Obnoxiously Mopey Faux-Writer Girl (in my own head, anyway), which I would very much like to put an immediate stop to, because it’s just gross.
Any suggestions you might have would be wonderful…
Overbooked
Dear Book,
It’s easy to let all the ancillary crap that surrounds the actual work of writing prevent you from getting anything substantive done — procrastinating with outlines, re-editing yesterday’s pages instead of moving forward, obsessing about character names.
In college, this seemed to me like part of the package, part of The Grand Tragic Show-Offy Romance Of The Writing Life.It took a few years for me to figure out that I wasn’t really getting anything done, but eventually I got it, and you should give yourself a little time to adjust to the essential nature of the job of writing, which unfortunately is largely thankless grinding that can often seem like time you’d have better spent doing something else.Like stabbing yourself in the eye with a ballpoint pen.Not that I’m having plotting issues of my own right now or anything.
Anyway!As I said: give it some time.Also, before you go into your lair to work, try to have some of the administrative stuff done before you start.If your project has pieces, break them down into as many little parts as possible, make a task list, decide what you want to do in tonight’s hour, and address that, and only that.Spending half your nightly hour dicking around with the pre-flight checklist doesn’t get you in the air, and makes you feel ineffectual besides.
Then it’s time to start the annoying workshop tricks, like setting a timer for 20 minutes and not letting your fingers leave the keyboard or stop moving until the bell rings.You will end several days of “work” with 17 pages of the word “blah,” interspersed with the occasional “FUCK THIS,” but stick with it; sometimes, when your conscious mind is consumed with the desire to put your laptop in the toilet, the rest of your brain will cough up something interesting.
You just have to keep doing it every night until it stops seeming like a fruitless affectation; until everything you write in your 20-minute blocks stops being about how you hate yourself for being fruitlessly affected, a bad writer, a bad person, stupid, and ugly; until one night you don’t need the timer anymore, and your husband finds you in there the next morning with keyboard hair.And over coffee he asks how it went, and you say, “I beat that second act with a beehive, friend.High five.”
That will happen.Before that happens, other, much more annoying and crappily-written things will happen, but those things will get you used to slogging through the work, and will let you get to the good stuff.
And know this: girl, I feel you.We all do.This ain’t no way for grown-ups to make a living.But here we are, so put the coffee on and don’t give up.
Tags: friendships rando workplace
Phoenix can also consider getting recommendations from someone else she worked with at previous gigs (other than a boss). A co-worker’s recommendation can also be helpful.
Speaking as a secretary (first by default; I majored in Theater myself – then by choice) with nearly 24 years experience, I have to say not everyone views administrative work as a “failure” for heavenssake. Good grief, how insulting. I get that that comes from a low self esteem place, but there are some people smart enough to esteem even such work as administrative professionals do. It’s as much in your own approach to (ANY) job as it is in the job itself.
That said, listen to Sars, Phoenix. It’s not irrelevant experience. Unless the request is specifically narrow, your own interpretation is too much so.
Speaking as a writer – Writer Girl, Sars again is correct. The PHYSICAL habits of writing are often so far off our mental radar when we’re trying to be creative, we underestimate how effective they can really be. The keyboard thing in particular is an excellent trainer – you can actually habituate yourself to a whole new style of Getting Writing Done by starting with stuff like this. I’ve written nearly 400 pages of a research-*intensive* historical novel in under four years, and am at the revisions stage. This is turning out to be the hardest, the easiest, and the most eye-opening part so far. (Oh, and I did this as a secretary.) Setting your parameters from a less abstract standpoint, and creating the concrete context for your writing is a stunner of a way to get things done. Good luck!!
Dear Sars,
I believe that I need to print the advice for Book for myself. Many thanks. Also, much luck to Book. (and Phoenix for that matter–get that job, leave that depression behind, well, as much as you can, leave it behind in the job interview!)
For Phoenix, that volunteer work sounds AWESOME! Isn’t there someone with your living history organization who is employed with it full time and with whom you’ve worked closely? Those folks can give you a professional recommendation and cast your accomplishments in the appropriately serious light. Plus, the way you wrote it in your letter is nearly perfect for a resume, in my opinion- it showcases the awesomeness of your work without drawing attention to the (perceived) strangeness of the context. Add the name of the organization and a few details about what you’ve taught (“classes for up to 45 kids” instead of “taught classes on how to effectively play the kazoo”), written (“wrote scripts for numerous programs and plays” instead of “wrote “Harriet and the Giant Noodle and a middle school adaptation of Peter Pan”) and the offices you’ve filled, and you’ve got a great resume entry right there.
Having done some recruiting for my company, I’ve seen a few resumes, and that would be memorable- in a good way- if cast appropriately, and I bet that organization could give you a fabulous reference. You certainly could do the same with the convention as well. Just my thoughts. Good luck!
RE: Overbooked, I hear you. I’ve recently had some luck with a three-pages-a-day approach. It’s not a too terrible amount of writing to try and knock out every day, and since it doesn’t sound overwhelming it doesn’t feel that way either. And Sars is right, once you get in the groove you’ll find that you’re eager to get the keyboard and keep on keepin’ on. Course the moments of OMG I SUCK SO BAD are still going to happen, but, eh, that happens to everyone, and the ones who don’t get derailed end up published authors. Dogged perseverance is the name of the name. Get to it!
For Phoenix . . . Agree about a co-worker reference. A package of three references including two supervisors and a co-worker make for a great package. Or if the job has any public-facing aspects, even someone who has been on the receiving end of your work. I’m always happy to talk to someone who has interacted with an applicant as a client or student or otherwise as a consumer of their work. Just make sure that the person has had substantial interaction with you and knows how to give a professional reference.
For Overbooked . . . Have you tried getting up an hour earlier, doing your writing before the day tires you out, and then going to bed when you could currently be writing? Some people (I am NOT one of them) can make that work better than trying to tack it onto the far end of a day.
Overbooked – I’m a programmer, and programming, like writing, is a creative act that can take some time to get going on. I’m one of those people who can’t do anything in an hour, and while I think Sars’ advice could work, don’t beat yourself up if it doesn’t. Some people just don’t work that way.
But that doesn’t mean you have to give up on writing. I have a full-time job, a commute, a husband, a house, a 4-year-old, and a baby, and if I can find 3-hour chunks of time then you can too!
First thing I did was give up on cleaning. I have a biweekly housecleaning service, a “mow and blow” service for the lawn, and the laundry goes out to a wash and fold. This stuff seemed expensive initially, but then I thought about what I was really buying – more time in my life – and it started looking cheap.
Specifically, it buys me a few hours a couple times a week, after the kids are in bed. That adds up over time! Plus, I negotiated a really sweet deal with my in-laws – the kids visit them for an overnight one Friday a month, and on that night I stay up late programming and sleep in the next day.
I also to go “hack sessions” – I’m not sure if there are equivalent things in the writing world. A hack session is an event where you come with a programming project and work on it in the company of other people doing similar stuff. They can last a few hours, or sometimes a whole day. For me, getting out of the house with its million things screaming “fix me!” is really helpful, and I make a lot of progress at hack sessions. I try to go to a few each month.
None of this would be possible without the unwavering support of my husband, and the absence of chores for me to do. :)
Good luck.
Phoenix, to echo what Patricia says–on your own, you are almost a business. You founded a choir. You started an international convention. Maybe the reason you are having trouble finding supervisors to recommend you is that you are the supervisor. For damn sure include that leadership experience!
Also, the line “it’s so perfect for me it hurts” stands out for me. Even though it’s your lobster, jobwise, you already have a life you’ve worked hard to get, doing a lot of things you love. If something doesn’t work out in the application the first time, you can ask them why. You can try again. Something similar might come up. Or you might–probably will, based on what you’ve said here–invent a position for yourself that’s even better. Or maybe you’ll get the job. There are a lot of good possibilities.
@Pheonix-I think you may be over-thinking what they mean by ‘professional’ a tad. I wizzed this one onto my sister who is a senior HR person and she advised the following:
Sure, it’s great to have references from the field in which you are applying for but refernces are simply a way for an employer to suss out a potential employee to see if they are personality fit (ie-doesn’t ring any ‘nutjob’ alarm bells) for the job ie-reliable, gets on well with others, has stayed in the job for more than 5mins. That being said, many nutjobs slip through which is why probationary periods are now standard practice.
Most importantly though, it is illegal these days for anyone to give a negative reference, even implied through silence or refusing to answer a question. It has become a legal minefield which is why many companies don’t place too much emphasis on references, even if asked for. She said definitely used your temp boss and to also the music teacher you’re currently researching for because if he likes your work, he likes your work. That’s what an employer/HR person is looking for. They are trained to dissect the difference between a personality problem and individual personality differences which is why they ask for more than 1 reference.
On a final note-she concurred with Sars about the age thing. It’s irrelevent. You can account for what you have been doing up until this point, you have been productive etc. Many people juggle study, family committments, health issues and ‘just having a job’ while they work towards the career they want. She feels that you should simply focus on the fact that unlike many people who give up on their ‘dream’ career, you have persisted and supported yourself through it. It’s a good strength to sell.
I hope this helps. Alot of what she said I have experienced but I thought it was better to get an ‘expert’ opinion. Good luck!!
@Need-I second Sars ‘Say WTF’. Your instinct is right, trust it. It sounds like she has contacted you because she lost the attention she got from you and simply reaching out to re-establish that attention fix/ego stroke she needs. Asking you where YOU have been is a manipulative device-she is trying to guilt you back into more ‘giving’ without her having to do a damn thing. I always have found it weird that when you are knee deep in s**t in your own life, it’s these people that crop up knocking on the door again. The ‘takers’. You are entitled to want people in your life who reciprocate your values of friendship. Be strong in that. Whether you let her know this and that the days of you looking after her are over is up to you. Weigh up if it is worth your effort. Whatever you choose to do, you have nothing to lose.
This is about YOU looking after YOU. Because she sure as hell isn’t.
Phoenix, I’d echo what Diane says about admin work. No shame there. After all, you’ve been working, and as someone who reviews resumes and interviews on occasion, I know the fact that you have a work history, period, is more important than the fact that it hasn’t all been exactly on point with what you studied, or where you want to go in the future. Plus the people I know who work in artsier fields than I do seem to be more forgiving, given the difficulty of making a career out of music or theater.
I can also speak as someone who has suffered from depression and anxiety most of my adult life. I agree with Sars that you should avoid the topic of depression in the interview. I might even go a little further and say avoid it completely. It’s not shady nor is it shameful. It’s just an illness, like any other. In fact, I think I’m far less disrupted at my job by depression than are the “healthy” people who leave early or “work at home” three days a week because they have kids.
But as someone who has tried everything on the continuum from full and fast disclosure to never mentioning it ever, I’ve found more success on the keeping it on the down low side of things. Even open-minded and reasonable people can get a little sketch when the topic of mental illness comes up, and I find it easier to just not go there at all. Looked at another way, it’s illegal for them to probe your medical history in a job interview, so there’s no reason for you to open the door for them. As the process continues, focus on what’s really relevant: your passion for the work and your qualifications, which you seem to have in spades.
Need: I’m going to have to disagree with Sars here a bit. Where I live, there’s sort of an environmentally-ingrained social distance. It’s even got a name: the Seattle Freeze. Nobody wants to be too pushy, to intrude into anybody’s personal life, and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle.
With that as a basis, it sounds to me like this might be a big misunderstanding, and your friend might think you’ve been blowing her off, too. You say she’s pinging you with “Hey, let’s hang out sometime!” but you don’t indicate whether you’ve come back with anything more than a “Yeah, we should!”
Try responding with something concrete: a “Sure, let’s do dinner. How’s next Friday?” If she still doesn’t make an effort to connect when you’re giving her a definite opening, then yeah, WTF indeed.
I know that if I waited until the last hour before bed to do something creative, it would not be done. Do you think writing would be easier if you did it somewhere on your way home from work? Take an hour for lunch, then eat at your desk? Chores have the dual qualities of not requiring any mental energy and being necessary for continued life support. You will fit those in later if you have to. Writing is harder to do.
Phoenix, as many posters more qualified than I have said, you are in the catbird seat from an objective viewpoint. And trust me, administrative experience is bright and shiny–it shows you care about the actual work of the job, and will do said work (I’m sure they’ve had plenty of “creative” flakery, missed deadlines, and sloppy work to contend with in the past.) That you see the job as something you love and not just a stepping stone to MOMA will be positive too.
I have a feeling your depression is dumping big buckets of negative goo all over your genuine accomplishments, and as tired as you are of fighting it, gear up one for one more punch. You can do this!
I think one of the most productive things you can do for yourself as a writer (that I haven’t completely mastered yet) is learning to write in all different situations, at whatever opportunity you have. I think all of us get into this place of like “it must be long-hand on a legal pad,” or “only if I can sit at the laptop and smoke two cigarettes will the magic happen.” But learning to pound it out whenever you’ve got thirty free minutes and access to whatever keyboard or pen is handy — that will boost your actual production of usable words by miles.
I’ve been doing a modified version of the “100 Words a Day” idea, and it’s really helping me be consistently productive. Setting a small goal that you can hit pretty easily helps you stick with it, while making yourself write even just that little bit EVERY day keeps the story fresh in your head and makes the page count add up.
Overbooked: I made the commitment last year to write a little every day and have stuck to that for the most part, despite my crazy schedule of work and other obligations. Maybe you’ll find some of this helpful:
I had to give up (or spend less time on) some other things. If I have a bad writing day, I let it roll off my back and commit to doing better tomorrow; I think that beating myself up for not accomplishing much becomes this counterproductive cycle where I spend more time bemoaning the fact that I’m not working than actually working. Don’t give up! For me, it helps to turn over ideas in my head during the day when I’m doing other things, and then I’m more or less ready to go when I sit down to write every night. (It helps that I commute to my job by foot, so I very often spend my evening commute mentally preparing myself. I find that taking a walk is very good for getting myself in the right headspace.) Some nights I only get in 20 minutes before bed, sometimes I find a couple of hours, but I remind myself that just getting a little bit done each day (even if it’s just a paragraph) is an accomplishment in and of itself.
Overbooked – I don’t know if this is a possiblity for you, but you might also think about alternative work arrangements – work 9 9-hr days and get the 10th off or 4 10-hr days and get the 5th off (or whatever you need to do to get a half-day off here and there). Not only is that better for the environment (fewer days commuting), but it gives you time at home when everyone else is at their normal daily “thing.” You’ll have to stay disciplined enough to get the normal stuff done in the evenings like usual, but it gives you large blocks of time without taking away too much from your current routine.
Overbooked, I ran into similar time-crunch problems when I was finishing my dissertation, and a good friend of mine encountered the same thing when finishing hers. We found that leaving ourselves a very clear pointer at the end of the night (or writing jag) for what we wanted to pick up with the following day was enormously helpful. We realized that we wound up in “Well, let me just read through those last thirty pages and tinker with the phrasing”-mode when we couldn’t remember what we had intended to do next. A little “Note to Self” often (though not always!) got us back into the swing more easily.
Nobody wants to be too pushy, to intrude into anybody’s personal life, and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle.
…What? These aren’t mere acquaintances. From the original letter: “I have held her crying over boys, I have picked her up when her car was broken down, I have made her dinner, I have hung out with her and her family, I have been there to save her, I have invited her over and made several attempts over the last year to get together.”
If people in a given locale aren’t all that outgoing with one another as strangers, fine, but that’s not an excuse for letting the relationship fade, then acting like it wasn’t your idea. That isn’t “social distance.” That’s self-absorption.
Overbooked: I work full time but also write fiction on the side. The only thing that really worked for me in terms of producing new drafts was requiring myself to write just one sentence a day, period, even if I was sick, on vacation, or at the end of an 18 hour work day, no excuses. Many times the one sentence turned into a paragraph or a page but on the bad days I wrote my three word sentence, called it a day and at least had spent some time thinking about the story I was working on and where I wanted it to go next. It doesn’t work as well with revising work, but if you just need to get yourself producing material again, it’s a great way to start that isn’t as tempting to skip out on when you hit the bad writer’s block days.
A note to forestall a storm – I didn’t mean to be dissing admin work or those who do it. I meant to be dissing my own personal failure as a teacher, and my own personal failure to succeed career-wise with my two degrees in theater and music, or my strong interests and skills in museum work, history, etc. That overall personal failure is highlighted by my doing [admin work] instead of those things. You could fill in the [ ] with many things.
“it is illegal these days for anyone to give a negative reference, even implied through silence or refusing to answer a question”
For the record, I don’t believe this is remotely the case. Yes, lawyers will tell you it’s the safer bet to say nothing, and that’s the hyper-conservative policy many employers have adopted, because if somebody claims you said something *false* about them, they could theoretically sue you. But there’s a big difference between “someone could theoretically sue you claiming you lied in a negative reference” and “it is illegal to give a negative reference.” I’ve never, ever heard of a place where it’s a violation of any law to give a truthful reference, positive or negative.
Phoenix, I’d rather hire a 40-y-o with a variety of experience than a 25-y-o with a vast but narrow set of knowledge & skills. (Sorry youngsters, nothing personal.) Sars is right – they don’t need to know what “medical problem” affected your work history. They shouldn’t ask, either. And Lindsay’s right too – it doesn’t have to be the boss’ recommendation. “Awesome worker, great to work with” can come from any direction. Good luck!
Need, you stated “…someone I know very well will run and hide, if confronted, and has. She disappeared from my life before, we had plans to get an apartment together, and only years later found out why (it had nothing to do with me).”
And she couldn’t muster the ovaries to tell you why you had to change plans for your LIVING ARRANGEMENTS? For YEARS? To quote you: “It was Her Problem, not My Problem.” IT STILL IS. Just say WTF. You don’t need the aggro on top of everything else. (And everything that sucks will change, I promise, because change is the nature if life itself- so just hang on while the wheel turns!)
Sars – about the Seattle Freeze thing. (“Nobody wants to be too pushy, to intrude into anybody’s personal life, and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle.”).
I don’t think it’s self-absorption necessarily. Let me see if I can rephrase what Loree said, because I’ve noticed this with myself.
For me, it’s actually a low self-esteem thing. I will write to a friend “Hey, I really miss you, let’s hang out sometime” and then wait for her to pick a date, because well, obviously she’s probably more busy than me and my schedule is more flexible and I wouldn’t want her to feel like she HAS to hang out with me if she doesn’t like me all that much, right?
It’s like, you’re trying to be TOO considerate by letting the other person suggest the date/activity, and it can come off as being uninterested when really you’re the opposite. When two people who are like this try to plan together, it can end up as “Hey, we should hang out” “Yeah, we totally should, I miss you” “Yeah me too, we should hang out at somepoint this summer” “Oh excellent, let me know when you feel like hanging out” etc., etc.
I’m exaggerating here, but it happens. Sometimes I have to shake myself out of the cycle and think “Wait, why not suggest a concert on Sunday? If she’s busy she can just…say no?”
For Phoenix: I work in a completely different field than the kind you describe, but I am in the private sector, and I do hire research assistants on a fairly regular basis. I always look for people who have administrative work on their resumes, whether in full-time or permanent positions. It’s a positive, not a negative. While I do need people who know my field, I need those same people to know how to juggle multiple, often conflicting tasks, pay attention to details and organize things and people — and those are the skills that administrative jobs force us to learn. Sars is spot on. Give your admin boss as a reference.
Overbooked: I second trying early mornings for writing. Or you could do the gym then to give yourself more time in the evenings. And/or see if there’s any way you can carve out a bigger chunk of time for just one evening a week—one night to just grab a sandwich for dinner and defer the chores, or even go to a coffeehouse or the library straight after work with your notebook or laptop. All you need to do is work it out with your husband, and since you say he’s supportive you shouldn’t have a problem.
Even if doing this gives you just one more hour a week I think it’ll still it go a long way towards getting yourself in the right mind-space. Just the act of making your own time implies a certain commitment in a way that your current situation—where you write only when everything else is out of the way—does not.
You can definitely train your writing brain to work in shorter bursts, but remember that when you train something—a dog, a horse, whatever—you have to give it special attention to begin with.
Erp. I meant “full-time or temporary” positions. And that but in the first sentence shouldn’t be there, that should have been the start of a new sentence. Darn phone ringing when I’m finishing a comment….
What a great Vine! The advice for Phoenix (and you WILL be!) who has had to do something she didn’t like and wasn’t meant for (can I raise a hand for that? please? me three!), on to Overbooked, which – have you been reading my diary that I don’t keep? All great, and once again, Sars ruling. So good.
@ Ash. Dear Heavenly Hera, thank you SO much. And you’re right, and I’m there. I’m looking after ME, and if you’re with me, awesome, I hope to give as much as I get. But if not? Long walk, short plank. THANK YOU for your words. I know I’m not alone in this experience, and when you’re having it you think you’re the one that’s trippin.
You find out who your friends are, don’t ya.
High fives all around.
@ Loree. Did it. Did it for a year and half. It probably wasn’t clear in my letter, me faulting on the side of brevity instead of therapy session. And she does know ‘where I am’ because in the town where I live, everybody knows everything about what everybody’s been up to. So.
@ Sarah Bunting: exactly.
“I meant to be dissing my own personal failure as a teacher, and my own personal failure to succeed career-wise with my two degrees in theater and music, or my strong interests and skills in museum work, history, etc.”
Except you haven’t failed. It just looks different than you hoped it might. You’ve been using those skills in a wide variety of settings, making do, making space for your passions even when you could not find ways to make it pay the bills. As a hiring manager, I look for that more than just about anything else — and while the fitting your passions into a paying job may come along later in life than you imagined, the opportunity is here now.
I’m prone to depression, and that quotation I made here sounds like depression to me. Reframe your life experiences as the triumph of passion over the mundane grind, and you are a success in every way that counts. Any hiring manager worth her salt will see that, too, and it’s easiest to see when someone can say, “It’s been discouraging sometimes, but I’ve always known what I wanted to be doing, so I just did it, even when I had to do admin work to pay the rent. For instance, {{list two or three volunteer things where you were using the degrees and displaying your drive to do this stuff}}.
I would also add to Phoenix, take advantage of your cover letter and interview to let your passion for the position shine through. I once landed a dream internship in large part due to a cover letter where I basically said, “look, this is my dream job and I am going to give it everything I’ve got. You will not find another applicant with as much passion for this as I have for it.” AND I had excellent qualifications. So don’t overlook the cover letter!
Phoenix, I think we got that. I lucked out – I had a dream from three years old to my senior years of college and when I actually got out of school and started living the dream, it was just dickering over details rather than figuring out what to do with my education.
I too suffer from long-term depression – from the time I was a teenager, even – and a tendency to focus on the negative. Give yourself permission to ignore the negative. So you were awful as a teacher. You know what? I’m a teacher, and it’s REALLY HARD. If I didn’t love it and find it the most rewarding thing I can imagine, I’d quit too. As it is I’m still looking back and my first year and a half and wondering how in the world those kids managed to learn ANYTHING from me. Teaching isn’t for everyone, and if you didn’t love it or think you were doing any good, then it’s better for you and better for your students that you got out.
My brother on the other hand has a degree in computer science and absolutely no idea what he wants to do with his life. Instead of doing what you did, going out and doing SOMETHING, he worked at McDonald’s until he got frustrated enough with the managers to quit, and has been unemployed for the past year and a half. He’s not married, has no job, and generally has done nothing useful or productive, aside from a two-year stint at McDonald’s, ever in his life. Try explaining THAT to a prospective employer, and you’ll see that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with working a job, any job, until you find and land a job that is perfect for you.
Phoenix, thank you. I wasn’t storming, but with as many years’ experience as I have at what I do the sheer volume of people who undervalue me is fairly stunning at times. I saw your statement as coming from a depressed place, and I know this comments section often becomes All About Me for those of us posting comments – about which, my apologies, Sars and readers. But sometimes that sheer volume really irks me, and I took the escuse this morning to “educate” people about this thoughtless and complertely unjustifiable prejudice. I ought to be past the defensive apologist/b*tch phase, but sometimes the keyboard is too tempting. I should have hit minimize and toggled over to the novel.
Shutting up now.
Geez nice typing there, me. (Also, that should have been “the volume of people who undervalue *my work* …)
Phoenix:
Best of luck! But as I was reading your note, I did want to say one thing. Don’t view your past careers as failures.
I’m not saying this because I thought you were saying admin jobs are crappy, or anything like that. I’m saying it because of the depression. I’m saying it because things have been rough, and you need to be able to give yourself a break. Finding out what it is you truly want to do with your life takes time, and whether or not you’re always going in the “right” direction, it sounds as though you’re getting there. You’re finding things that you’re truly passionate about. And not using your majors or teaching aren’t markers of you “failing” in careers – they were you figuring out that’s not what was meant to be. They were moments when you learned more about where your skills are, and realizing that you aren’t great at something and acknowledging it doesn’t equate to failing.
Keep your chin up. You’ve found something that looks fantastic. You have great experience – between your academic credentials, your research, your own business ventures and the skills gained through teaching and admin work – communication, attention to details, etc – you have a lot going for you. Don’t let your frustration or disappointment in not finding something like this sooner get in the way.
Phoenix–I too have a degree in theater, am 37, and take pizza orders for a living. So, don’t worry, you have it all over the most of us. Tell your depression I said to have a nice big glass of STFU and stretch those wings. Remember, stretching can hurt, so that pain doesn’t mean you’re a failure or you don’t deserve this job or whatever. Pain is not punishment.
You and Overbooked have inspired me. The one good thing about my job is I have tons of free time and it’s time I did something with it. So here we go.
(@loree, I’m in Seattle too… want to *not* have Starbucks sometime? )
Writing is hard. It is like anything else. You have to decide it’s important to you and then do it when you can in the time you have. I used to get up at 5:30 in the morning and write recaps for an hour before officially “getting up,” back when I still had a day job. And I did that for years. I wrote early, I wrote late, I wrote on weekends when I wanted to be doing other things. You just have to…do it.
I think the trick is to train yourself to understand that as satisfying as writing can be, it doesn’t feel satisfying moment-to-moment, much of the time. It feels satisfying SOMETIMES. It feels satisfying, as Sarah said, when you know you have written a killer sentence and cannot help bragging about it.
A lot of the time, though, it’s just work. It’s get in there, sit down, do the best you can work. If it’s important to you, then sit down and get it done, because in reality, THAT is the only line between writing and not. Writers actually write. Sit down, write words. That is writing.
So more than anything, I would say, don’t get discouraged. Those moments where you feel like your brain isn’t working and you’ve written ten words and you like none of them? You are more a writer than someone who is waiting for the time when she can sit for four hours in a sunny window, even if she has already bought the plant, the paper, the perfect music to play…you get the idea.
Write ten words = you’re a writer. Stick to grand planning about it and sitting on your copy of Writers’ Market and reading books about structure and inspiration and write zero words = you’re not. Write. That’s how you write. That’s what makes it so awesome and so terrifying.
Overbooked–
I had to completely rearrange my writing approach earlier this year after missing a deadline due to my inability to find more than 30 minutes at a time to write. It’s doable. First thing I’d suggest is recasting your gym time or chore time, mentally, as something other than “not-writing time.” During that physical time set yourself a mental writing task–my basic minimum task was identifying what specific writing task I was going to attack that night when I did hit the keyboard. For me that also eases the transition into writing if my brain is already working on it.
You might also take another look at how you’re prioritizing your time. Every day doesn’t have to look the same–your husband can play with the kitties on his own sometimes, or Tuesday can be chore-free. Are you able to honor your planned writing times, or is there other-stuff creep? You’ve also been silent about weekends, which offer big chunks of time–that makes me wonder if there’s a little bit of writing anxiety behind this, too, and if scheduling is the “I could write if only” hook it’s hanging on. Not that it changes the methodology all that much–it’s just something that might be worth thinking about.
Good luck!
@Linda-Perhaps I overstated the term ‘illegal’, it was a tad late at night when I was writing that piece here in good ol’ Australia! I do know that negative references are caught up in a myriad of discrimination and privacy laws here and some words/actions are considered illegal here. Which is why I didn’t fear in the past, when pushed to no other alternative than seeking a reference from a previous employer I did not like/get on with at all. I got the job and they were my only reference at the time. From what I gathered, they gave me a decent, objective reference.
My point though, and from what I gather from my sister, is that Phoenix should not dismiss her current research teacher as a reference. Someone not liking you or you them, isn’t necessarily an automatic ‘dismiss as reference’ option.She performs well,produces good work for him and as a professional, he would be able to give a good reference (unless he has some sort of ‘arsehole’ disorder but she didn’t mention that). We both felt she was creating more obstacles in her way than needed by viewing some genuinely positive, or at least benign things, in a negative way.
I want to add my encouragement to the pile for Phoenix. Your “volunteer work” sounds like a full-time career to me, and that’s outside of a full-time job, and should be treated as such. Go for it and I really hope you get the job.
Reading everyone else’s responses to Phoenix has been kind of comforting for me, too. I left a job I loved (and didn’t realize quite how much I loved it or how perfect it was until I left) to be closer to family, spend more time with my son and not lose my current babysitter and have to put my son in daycare. Since I live in an area that doesn’t exactly have a lot of job opportunities for my chosen profession, I ended up taking an admin-type job. It’s been a huge blow to my ego – I worked hard in school, went to a fancy college, got my degree … and now work at a job that barely requires a HS diploma. And I’ve been at this job less than a year. So I get Phoenix’s feelings of “failure,” even though I certainly would not consider her career a failure in the least. I’m applying for jobs now, too, since my sanity just can’t take where I’m working much longer, and have come up with nothing. So everyone saying that there’s nothing wrong with your career path looking a little differently than planned makes me feel a little better, too. I just wish I had the time and energy to find a way to do what I love outside of work the way Phoenix has.
@Amalthea:
~I will write to a friend “Hey, I really miss you, let’s hang out sometime” and then wait for her to pick a date, because well, obviously she’s probably more busy than me and my schedule is more flexible and I wouldn’t want her to feel like she HAS to hang out with me if she doesn’t like me all that much, right?~
I feel that. I’ve had the two friends I care most about drop out of my life in much the same manner as LW#2, (I made plans, they stood me up; I left messages, they never returned them; I took the hint and stopped contacting, and that was the end of that) and these days, I hate making friendly advances to anyone because I feel like I’m putting them on the spot – obliging them to respond politely even though I’m probably annoying them and they’d rather I go away.
My mother has ‘friends’ whom she’ll see on the caller ID and say something along the lines of ‘Great, HER again’, then pick up the phone and act like they’re best buds. I cringe at the thought of being on the receiving end of that kind of thing.
Need – I would take this as an opportunity to ask her straight out where she is or has gone off to. You apparently don’t like confronting her, but as she voluntarily has come back into your life, it might be a good opportunity to try to find out what the problem is. If you want to, and I suppose you do, because you wrote to TN.
There are other reasons to contact people than that she is a “takerâ€. One thing I thought about is that if you and your friend have drifted apart for whatever reason, but have been close before, she might have somehow picked up on your distress. Either (of course) by plain rumour, or then by some kind of weird telepathy. I remember my ex-boyfriend calling me half a year or more after we split up, just to ask about my grandfather. Who I just then had heard was dying from cancer. Ex and I hadn’t kept in contact at all, but he had had a “feeling†that he wanted to ask me. It felt weird – still does – but he said it just popped into his mind very strongly. We had been together for seven years, he knew my grandparents, and ended up sending them a card that was much appreciated. Both by them and me.
Overbooked: I finally got my thesis done, but it was really awful trying to around work and other commitments. I had to take time off to finish it, but that might not be an option for you. What you probably can do (as you have a supportive partner and yay for those!) is to get away for a while: a week, a long weekend or even just a weekend somewhere where you can concentrate only on the writing. Preferably somewhere where somebody else does the cooking, but to borrow a summer cottage or empty flat might work too. If you can go on some creative writing course or something, try that – it might help to be around others who write. Use that undisturbed time to structure the text you want to write, lay out the plot and write down a little under each section: what do you want to do here, what should happen, what needs to be put here. Even a few sentences, if they come to mind, but don’t force it (yet). Do as much planning as you can, it is as @Wendy said, you need to give a bit more attention to the beginning. (The beginning of the work, that is, not the text.) It is much easier when you have a plan to follow. Then you can think, when at the gym or whatever: “today I will write the scene where…†and get your mind working on it. Writing more text in a given chapter is far easier than trying to think totally new thoughts.
I have also heard the “get up in the morning and write before work†– I never managed that more than a couple of times, but I have a friend who swears by it. Also, try to get more time some days – be a bit more sloppy all over, ask husband to take care the chores some days and you’ll do more other days and so on. All good suggestions you got already :-)
And yes: write every day! I had a random document called “not a day without a lineâ€, and even if it mostly consisted on frustrated rants and random observations about my surroundings, I did end up using some of the thoughts that came out of my fingers ;-)
Phoenix —
I’m with Sars on picking the current employer over the iffy professor. Back when I was a new college graduate I asked for a reference from a (Theatre) professor I thought I knew well. He turned around and asked a “friend” of mine to write the reference. (He also asked me to write one for her!) I wimped out and said I “couldn’t” — as in “I was incapable of writing one” instead of telling him that it was a violation of my ethics. The other student had no such compunction, wrote a devastating reference, and I didn’t get the job. I found out what the reference said because I had a mole in the theatre troupe I was trying to join. But because he was afraid he’d get in trouble for reading it to me I never protested the reference or confronted the professor. I regret that, not because it would have changed the job outcome, but it would have improved my self-esteem. As it was, I went around for years wondering if perhaps I really did become almost schizophrenic under pressure.
On the other hand, the last time I needed references (for a school district I’d worked for before, in a job the principal had already signed off on) I was asked for three supervisory references. Trouble was, I only had two “current” supervisors I could tap. I was told by Human Resources I absolutely must have three references or I couldn’t be hired. I scratched around and found a colleague who had been in a supervisory position years before. When I brought in her reference, the HR person placed it in my file without reading it and checked off the reference box. I doubt if anyone ever read any of my references.
“Usually” Works Well With Others
Phoenix: the situation might be different in the US, but here in the UK references for most jobs are mainly a formality whereby your employer establishes that there are no major red flags against your name (disciplinary issues, primarily). I suspect this has arisen in tandem with the shifting legal culture, where lots of companies will give only “factual” references (“X worked here between dates Y and Z”) for fear of getting sued. So all I look for in a reference is absence of evidence of heinous incompetence or malice. If I’ve made you a job offer, I want to hire you. As long as someone can tell me that they’ve paid you and you didn’t burn down the building, we’re good.
To Overbooked,
I get my best ideas as I’m just falling asleep, or waiting in eternity for an airplane. Keep a notebook near you at all times, because I can’t just sit for an hour and tell myself “Think Dammit”. It’s all the brilliance I get at 2am, or in O’Hare, that helps me churn out stories when I finally sit down. Notebooks are very portable. I keep a 5.5″ square one in my bag at all times. Easier to have a spur of genius than when you’ve got to wait till your set-aside date with the computer. I don’t know if you’re aiming at a scholarly work or a creative one, but I think this should help in any case. Good luck!
Overbooked – I wholeheartedly agree with @Jane. If you reread what you wrote about the way your evenings work out, you’ll see that you’ve essentially said your writing is your lowest priority. If that’s the case, cool, carry on. But if that’s not the way you want to rank things, maybe a giant step back to the drawing board is in order so that you can be sure your priorities are lining up with the way you allocate your time. As others have said here, it can be really tough. Still, if you approach it by viewing everything else as immovable such that you can only spare an hour at the very end of the day, you’re letting all of those other things shortchange your writing.
This has nothing to do with the any of the Vine letters, but where and in what context have I seen the phrase “beaten with a beehive” before? Google is helpless and the recollection is juuuuuust out of reach of my brain and I am going nuts.
Sars, thanks for the great advice for Overbooked. As I’m seeing in the comments, it’s a great problem for a great many of us.
dear book,
every working grad student in the world feels your pain! how anyone gets a dissertation writing, well, i don’t know. but that is my drama! yours is not all that dissimilar though. i think the key is figuring out how, when and where you write best. personally, i can only write in long chunks of time. so, instead of writing a little every day, i bank hours by doing all my chores, etc for the week so that i have a solid 5-6 hour chunk twice a week. i know people who have lovely offices, but can only write in cafes. and other people who can literally only write in the dead of night. you just have to schedule everything else around the writing if it means that much to you. it seems hard at first, but just like exercising….it is easy not to fight your natural inclinations.
good luck! and dont be too hard on yourself. page at a time it gets done!!!
Thank you so much, everyone, for your thoughts and ideas. I think Sars is totally right that I’m not used to the “work” of writing, and need to address that issue with gusto. I hadn’t heard of the “don’t stop typing for 20 minutes, no matter what” exercise, for example, and it sounds both useful and terrifying, so that’s probably a sign that I need to try it and get myself unscared of it. I probably also need to seriously get over the fact that the full days of sitting around in my pjs, writing and surviving on junior mints green apple soda (heh), are not likely to return anytime soon without the help of a convenient lotto jackpot.
And not that I imagined I was alone in my feelings of lameness, but it is immensely comforting to hear that I’m not the only one sitting there staring at the keyboard going, “omg, why do I suck so hard?”
Those of you (Jane, Bria) who pointed out that there may be other factors at play as well are probably also right, even though it is extremely tough to hear/admit that. I want SO MUCH for this project (it’s a novel, btw) to work out that I guess it’s easier, in a way, to let the time thing get the best of me than to just fail outright after giving it my best effort. Which sounds ultra dumb when I say it out loud, but… yeah. :)
I’m going to jump in there and give it a shot — when I get home tonight, a frozen pizza goes into the oven and I go into the office to produce my 17 pages of “blah” or whatever else I can get to come out. And a printout of this whole column & comments goes into my desk drawer for some added good juju. :)