Comments on: The Vine: January 6, 2010

By: Kona

Kona — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:50:56 +0000

I know I'm totally late to this, but dude. I am 5'6" and not disabled, but I often find myself in the handicapped stalls. Why? Well, while I may not be in a wheelchair, I do have a 23-lb. growth named Cooper, and for some reason, a lot of public places are putting their diaper changing tables in the handicapped stalls now instead of just on the wall by the sinks or wherever.

Luckily, I've never been in a situation where someone with a wheelchair, or with Crohn's disease has really needed it, but dude. Diaper changes can take a long time when you have a squirmy baby and winter layers. Even if I'm not changing his diaper, if we're at the mall or something and he's in his stroller, the handicapped stall is the only place he'll fit. I can't just leave him out in the middle of the bathroom unattended.

The point is, handicapped stalls are not like handicapped parking spaces. All sorts of people need to use them, and as long as you're not yelling, "fuck you, wheels!" and slamming the door, I think you're fine.

By: La BellaDonna

La BellaDonna — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:32:07 +0000

Kelly: No, no, what you had to say was absolutely germane to the conversation (as far as I can tell, at least). You had access to good information – you WERE part of a program/group of People Who Would Know – and people in your building HAD been specifically requested to Leave These Stalls Free If Possible. I'd be right up there next to you bowling with skulls, under the circumstances.

By: Hannah

Hannah — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:15:30 +0000

There's a table at Starbucks with a sign on it that reads something like, "Please offer to our disabled patrons." I would treat the handicapped stall the same way.

By: Colleen

Colleen — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:22:22 +0000

It's my understanding that the people who are most likely to be unable to use any but the large stalls–wheelchair users–are also less likely to be able to wait even a short time. Once they're in the stall, it still takes them time to maneuver out of the chair, out of their pants, and onto the toilet. It may also have taken them significantly longer to get to the bathroom than most of us might realize–because the only wheelchair-accessible elevator is at the back of the building, on the opposite end of the floor from the bathrooms, for example. And as Kelly mentioned, depending on the reason for people's wheelchair use, their digestive systems may also behave unpredictably and/or may not give them much warning when they need to go. So I do think it's important that those of us who can just as easily use the smaller stalls do so whenever possible, because we have no way of knowing if someone who really needs the large stall immediately might come in.

But for Valkyrie and others on this thread who may not be wheelchair users but do have significant difficulty using the smaller stalls, I don't see any reason they shouldn't use the wheelchair-accessible one if it's free. Office Outrage was clearly WAY out of line. There's (almost) never any excuse for berating a complete stranger, and there is most certainly never any excuse for demanding that a complete stranger reveal her private medical history to some Nosy Nelly at the sinks. And I think Jen's onto something about fat-hate being a big factor here.

By: phineyj

phineyj — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:51:29 +0000

Responding to one of the posters above, it's true, of course luggage doesn't equal disability but speaking as someone who has to carry a musical instrument about, these cramped toilet stalls that don't even have enough room for a person never mind any luggage are a problem. What are you supposed to do if you are travelling on your own – leave valuable things outside the toilet so someone can steal them? I have noticed that some newer places in the UK (like Terminal 5 at Heathrow) are beginning to make the stalls larger when they refurbish, presumably for this reason.

I would always let someone disabled, with young children, etc go ahead of me but the real problem is these toilets that don't even have enough room for the sanitary bin, never mind anything else.

Not that any amount of reasoning can possibly excuse ranting so rudely at a complete stranger!

By: Stacy

Stacy — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:23:54 +0000

"fiiling a complaint or a report might not stop her behavior, "

There's no permanent record for the rude. Who are you going to call? Manners police? I'm as appalled as anyone at the Poo Hag, but it's not possible to report all bad behavior to some authority figure.

"having a person in authority â€“ store mgr, police officer â€“ telling her that she's wrong"

We're not living in a police state.

By: Bria

Bria — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:37:43 +0000

Oh dear. I can't read "itty-bitty-car-driving dick" without thinking of an itty bitty dick that happens to be able to drive a car. Like…imagine a dude saying "hey now, don't be turned off by the size – it can drive this CAR!"

By: Stella

Stella — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:48:27 +0000

@La Belladonna "the definition of what is "fat" keeps spiralling DOWNWARD; I guess it's to widen the field of targets for would-be abusers". I have heard women use the word "fat" concerning people that were clearly, absolutely not. When women want to really tear each other down, they go to one of two things: "fatty" or "slut". This phenomenon tells me a lot about the state of feminism today…

@Liz in Minneapolis — wow. Well said. That is exactly how, and probably exactly why, I react to being dressed down by nutters in public. I had a woman once follow me INTO a store, to berate me for not yielding her the right of way (because *I* had the right of way). I wish I had been able to say something to her that would've made her see that 1.) she was being a psycho, and 2.) that she was wrong. Instead I just said "ok, whatever" and slunk away. Unfortunately there's nothing you can say to those angry people. They're looking to dump their shit on someone else, and if you snap back instead of slinking away, well a shouting match is even better.

By: Kelly

Kelly — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:46:05 +0000

@LaBellaDonna: let me clarify. The students were specifically told NOT to use those stalls. We were told if there were students with special needs who were not part of our program, so most likely we would have known if said student(s) had a need for the disabled stall. I generally was nice about it the first time, but with the repeat offenders? Oh hell no. Picture sitting outside of the one handicapped stall with a student who is in tears because she is about to wet herself, since it's occupied by a tiny wee coed who liked to hang out in there to read her magazine. I was way past polite at that time.

Anyway, this is pretty much irrelevant to the question, I bet!

By: Jaybird

Jaybird — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:50:46 +0000

I'd have been tempted to tell the Smart-Car-Booer that the rest of the space was reserved for HER, since she was apparently determined to crawl up your butt anyway.