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The Vine

The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: June 5, 2001

Submitted by on June 5, 2001 – 12:31 PMNo Comment

This is in response to the letter from The Untouchable. I’ve experienced exactly what she is going through. I too grew up in a very conservative, religious family, and did not start dating until I was seventeen. I also don’t really like to be touched, so even though I had a boyfriend, we never kissed. In fact, I never kissed a guy until recently — four years later. It wasn’t that I wasn’t attracted to the people I went out with, it was just that I wasn’t ready to take that step, and it sounds like this could be the case with her. There is nothing wrong with that. She just needs to set boundaries for herself and stay within them. There is plenty of time to experience these things in life, so she doesn’t need to rush it at all. One day she’ll be dating a guy, and she’ll find that she wants to kiss him, but until then, she should just have fun without worrying about the physical aspect of a relationship. Trust me.

Been There, Just Recently Done That

While reading The Vine just now, I recognized something of myself in that girl’s description of herself.I had gone to an Orthodox Jewish Day school until I was 13, and when I finally Made Out with a guy, at almost 16, I felt exactly how she described feeling — except I felt that way after, not during. For me, with a strict religious background, I felt guilty just having sexual desire, and then guilty for enjoying myself.Once I had figured that out, life got a little easier.Having also slept with someone I wasn’t attracted to (anymore), I can sympathize with her feelings of “he expected me to,” and then not enjoying it.I will NEVER do that again.I learned my lesson the hard way — being intimate with someone to whom I wasn’t attracted made me dislike myself, and not want to be intimate with anyone ever again.

Please tell this girl, in stronger terms, maybe, that she should never feel pressured to “put out,” but that at the same time, if she is indeed interested in being physically intimate with someone (guy, girl, whomever) that if she wants it, it’s okay to want it.

I am not sure if I am being entirely clear, or if my own feelings, reactions, and experiences are relevant. But maybe it will help her to know that they are other women out there who have felt similarly, and who have gone on to have positive “touching” experiences.

Yours,
Rachel

Thanks, Been There and Rachel.

That’s the important thing to remember about sexual activity and intimacy — when you’re ready, you’re ready.There’s no “should be.”There’s no timeline.Nobody’s keeping score.When you feel ready, you can go ahead, but when you don’t, that’s completely okay — and completely natural.

I think way too many young women feel like they “have to” or “ought to want to,” and don’t listen to their instincts; it’s hard not to give in to that.But as I said in my original response, each person is different and brings different issues and needs with him or her when it comes to these things, and you should respect yourself enough to trust your own judgment.

Hi Sars —

Help! Need advice! The woman (let’s call her “J”) my brother has been living with (for 10 years) showed up out of the blue at my parents’ place and ranted and raved at them how they don’t care about my brother.They favour his sisters over him (allegedly); they treat my ex-husband better than they do my brother (allegedly) and he’s not even blood. She was upset that they didn’t go out to dinner at Christmas with them (my father is unemployed and was unable to afford to pay for the expensive meal at the restaurant J had picked). Her response to “we couldn’t afford it” was that they shouldn’t have purchased gifts if they were so poor. She moaned that the parents spent no time with her and my brother at Christmas (they called at 9 am saying they’d be there soon, and arrived at 2 pm, only to leave an hour later with more people to visit). She also complained that my parents have never asked to meet her family (I would have thought the invitation to meet them might have come from her?).

Okay, we don’t actually like the woman; she refuses to talk when she comes around unless we discuss “spiritual” or “deep” things. (I refuse to discuss things like that with her, as our views differ so widely — unlike her, I don’t feel abused children deserve it as they are paying off karma…but let’s not go any further with her views and mine. Parents don’t agree with her views on many things either). When visiting, there are only monosyllabic answers to “small talk.” She wears sunglasses and doesn’t take them off, which we all find disconcerting and rude.

Background: she is 49, my brother about to turn 30. She has three sons, the eldest two weeks older than my brother. Brother left home to board with her (he was friends with one of her sons) and then after a few months they “came out” about their relationship. Parents weren’t happy, talked to Brother, who was adamant. They resigned themselves to the situation and tried to make the best of it.

However, we are polite. We have accommodated her son from a previous relationship (did I mention she has three failed marriages?), and he’s a pleasant enough young man. (They brought him to family gatherings, we buy him gifts and so on.) She seemingly makes my brother happy, so we do the best we can. I’m absolutely livid about this and all I want to do is poke her in the eye and tell her where to get off. But obviously we don’t want my brother to be alienated and not see him anymore.

At the time of the confrontation, my brother stood mute and only whispered “I love you” to my mother when they went. What do you suggest we do? (The poking in the eye suggestion is out.) The ex-husband suggested we have a family meeting and discuss it — I am so mad I can see myself exploding and telling her a few home truths at the moment. He also suggested my parents say, “You are right, we have been remiss, please bring to our home the family that our son obviously cares about, we’d love to meet them” (uncross fingers). Help? My dad is going to try and talk to my brother separately from her to see if much of it was him, or just her righteous anger.

In the meantime, it’s my brother’s birthday in two days’ time…his 30th. What should we do?

Ugly Sister

Dear Sister,

Okay, so you think the girlfriend’s kind of trashy, and you think she’s a bitch to boot.But your brother loves her, and in order to keep the peace, you’ll have to keep making nice to her.

I think your ex-husband has an idea there.Your whole family should let J know that she’s a member of the family now, and you feel just awful that she thinks you dislike her and haven’t given her a chance, won’t she please come to a cocktail party and blah blah blah.In other words, all of you just grit your teeth and lie your asses off.You’ve got no choice.She sounds like a slattern, but that’s your brother’s affair, not yours.

She may have just wigged because she senses that you guys don’t like her; people can tell, even when you try to hide it, and it makes them act badly sometimes.Perhaps she’ll settle down if she senses that your family will give it another try with her.

Dear Sars,

I have a problem. I am standing up as maid of honor in a wedding for a good friend (we’ll call her Paula) in just a couple of weeks. I look terrible in the dress but, sadly, that is the least of my worries.

I HATE her Mr. Right. I thought he was a little weird at first, but the whole relationship has been weird. Paula called me last April to tell me she “met somebody,” and I was happy for her. Until she told me that they had been seeing each other nonstop for eight days (total, not just a couple-y binge), and that this was it and she was getting out of her lease, selling all of her belongings and moving in with him.I was nervous, but she is impulsive. I told her not to rush things, but within two days it was too late. She had already had her phone disconnected.

We live about an hour apart and were working opposite shifts, so I didn’t get a chance to actually see her until June. By then they were already engaged and the wedding plans were well underway.I was surprised by how nice he was in spite of the modified mullet he was sportin’.

But then information kept popping up about him from friends of mine that didn’t even know Paula. He lies about what he does for a living (he runs a store, but says he owns it while hitting on women in the store).He is a recovering alcoholic. He has two kids. His ex-wife hates him. He cheated on her. He embezzled from the company he worked at before this one. He somehow lives in the house the ex-wife’s parents bought as a wedding gift. He is just flat-out smarmy!

One person — a former neighbor of Mr. Right — even told another bridesmaid, “He is evil. You cannot let your friend marry this guy.”But we haven’t said anything. We don’t think she’d hear us anyway. She is “in luv” and she thinks her world is perfect. I think she’s “sleeping with the enemy” and I don’t know what to do!

Is it too late to tell her all of these things? Would it make a difference?

Bitter Bridesmaid

Dear Bitter,

Maybe your friend knows all of these things about Mr. Right, and doesn’t care.But you should do a bit of gentle hinting to see how much of it she does know, and if she hasn’t heard that he’s got a couple of kids from a previous marriage or that he doesn’t really own the business, she needs to.The fact that they moved in together so fast suggests to me that he’s trying to circle her off from the herd, and if she doesn’t know this stuff about him, well, that’s why he’s doing it — so that she doesn’t find out, or that she relies on him so much by the time she does find out that it won’t matter.

Watch your tone.Keep it conversational and concerned, not somber and judgmental.Stress that you don’t judge Paula, or Mr. Right.Make it about your worries for her, not about her.Add that you wouldn’t feel right about standing up as a witness to their marriage — which, legally, is what the MOH does — if you aren’t sure Paula has the facts.

Frankly, I think Paula’s going to regret Mr. Right in a big way, whether she has the facts or not.But all you can do is tell her what you’ve heard — as neutrally as possible, without using words like “smarmy,” and without getting all sniffy about his alcoholism, which I assume he’s got under control now — and make sure she’s armed with the information.

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