The Vine: May 27, 2009
About fifteen years ago, my parents split up. They did not divorce and I’ve never really asked why. About a decade ago my dad moved in with a woman I think of as my stepmother.
My mother is partially disabled and her income limited, so she has been living in the house while my father pays the mortgage. For the past few years, though, he has also been in poor health and his business has been borderline, so this is getting tougher for him to do.
My mother can’t pay the mortgage or rent on an apartment, and refuses to go to an income-contingent apartment for people who are disabled. She will not agree to sell because the value is so low, but it’s only going to get worse. Major repairs and redecorating are needed. She can do basic upkeep but she won’t. My dad can’t keep up both households.
About a year ago, we thought we had found a solution. My brother moved in with her and made a handshake rent-to-own deal. But last time I was there, there was an inch of dog hair and debris on the floor, the carpet was ruined, the oven door had fallen off, and there were moldering plates of food in Mom’s room. My brother and mother are barely on speaking terms and he plans to move out as soon as he can get an apartment to accept his credit.
We’re back to square one. I just can’t see any options. I live a couple states away and I can and do help financially, but not enough to support her. What gets me is how she just refuses to help herself or anyone else who is looking out for her. The house is going to fall around her ears, or foreclose, and then what?
What are our options here? Do you have any ideas? She’s a tough broad to live with, and I’d prefer it didn’t come to that, but I’ll do what I have to.
At least it’s my brother’s dog
Dear Least,
Think of it from her perspective.She’s at the mercy of the family, somewhat, and while some people do enjoy being taken care of, others chafe at it — and in any case, she’s not getting taken care of at the moment, really.
Your brother let the house devolve into a shithole; her husband, who functionally left her, can’t pay down that pain with a good standard of living anymore (I don’t know the circumstances of their split, obviously; I’m just thinking out loud here); she can no doubt sense that you want her to move into assisted living or a smaller place or whatever less-desirable situation she thinks you have in mind.
She feels out of control of her own life, maybe, is the point, and maybe refusing to accept reality (where you can see her doing it, anyway), or to ask for or tolerate help, is the only way she feels like she exists, like she’s not a burden or completely dependent.It’s the only active thing she can do, so that’s what she’s doing, and it seems stubborn and self-destructive from the outside — and chances are she knows that.She knows it’s the worst choice, but it’s her choice.
See if you can’t get her to a counselor of some sort — psychological, credit-bureau, any somewhat objective third party she can talk to so it doesn’t feel quite so much like nobody’s on her side.And try talking to her with these control issues in mind; if she’s not competent to take care of herself, that’s a different conversation, but if the real issue is that she has no real say in where she lives or with whom, so she’s going to resist until she does, well, she’s got a point, and working with her to find an alternative she picked out, at least partially, is a good goal.
My grandmother did this kind of thing, when she couldn’t live on her own anymore.She battled my father over a hospital lunch menu for close to an hour one time, just got so upset and mean over the fruit cup, and I could have done without how she talked to Dad, but at the same time, she knew the rest of the meals in her life would come to her on a tray.She couldn’t go get them.And she was pissed.And I don’t blame her.
(I’ve just realized it’s her birthday today.Wherever she is, I hope she’s making tapioca from scratch.Have a happy one, Grandma.)
Hi Sars,
I’ve come across a grammar question at work that has me stumped. Of course, this has occurred while I’m in the midst of moving and my copy of Garner is packed in a box a state away. I’ve looked online, but I cannot find a definitive answer ANYWHERE. So, I thought I’d come to you! Here it is.
There is great debate in the workplace over whether the following sentence requires a question mark at the end:
“Therefore, may we have a final draft of the document for review on April 30 and we will provide commentary by May 2?”
The team charged with editing the document claims the sentence does not need a question mark because it’s a compound sentence. This may be true — I haven’t come across this situation in close to a decade (and therefore cannot remember for sure whether that is correct).
My preference would be to break it up into two simpler sentences — one a question, the other a statement. But that doesn’t seem to be an option. So, could you weigh in? Question mark or period?
Many thanks!
Compound Interrogative?
Dear Comp,
For starters, the sentence needs a comma after “30” to qualify as compound.
To your main question: the question mark isn’t necessarily incorrect as written.If you consider both clauses questions, or as two parts of one larger question when taken together, I think the question mark is okay.
But understanding is that the sentence is asking only about when the final draft will show up, and the May 2 deadline is then a statement (assuming the April 30 deadline is met) — it’s an “if/then” pair, basically, except that the “if” part is a question and the “then” part is a statement premised on the answer to the “if” being “yes.”
…Helpful!Sorry, that was probably too confusing.I agree that it needs rewriting, basically, and if the team really can’t abide having two sentences, tweaking it to “April 30, so that we can provide” or “April 30, which allows us to provide” should do it.But if they just won’t change it, it’s not a horrible usage biff; it just implies something slightly different from what is intended.
Sars,
I have a problem with my local Whole Foods, and I want to complain about it. The trouble is, I have a friend who works there as an assistant manager. I don’t want to be the jerky friend who picks on her about her job, so I don’t want to go to her. But I also feel weird about complaining at all, with a friend working there.
Here’s the problem: the Whole Foods in question is the only one in my entire state, and they are basically a really excellent grocery store, except for at the cash registers. As far as I can tell, the concept of training is abandoned at the front of the store, where cashiers take forever to complete a transaction.
But that’s not the worst of it. Several times, I’ve returned home with my bag of food to find that the softest, most easily damaged produce was put at the bottom of the bag. It turns out that when you put a six-pack of beer on top of strawberries, the produce does not stand a chance.
Of course this is the somewhat more expensive Whole Foods produce, making the loss more painful. But mostly, it’s the inconvenience that makes me crazy, when I go home and find that my food has been damaged. The problem appears to be unique to this store. I go to any Publix in the state and ladies that look like Waffle House employees can bag an entire week’s worth of groceries in 10 seconds flat, without puncturing a single tomato. I go to Whole Foods, and a college girl that looks like one of Botticelli’s models stares vacantly out the window while slowly placing numerous bottles and cans on top of my bananas.
The quality and selection of the food at Whole Foods is much higher than at other stores, which is why I don’t just abandon the store altogether. I don’t want to be the jerk telling the cashier how to bag my groceries, or the jerk that goes through the groceries immediately after the purchase and goes to customer service to complain. And as I stated, I don’t want to be the jerk that gives my friend a hard time at or about her job.
But I also don’t want to have to think so damn hard about my groceries anymore.
Can’t a person have high quality produce, uncrushed food, and uncomplicated friendship at the same time?
In search of whole food at Whole Foods
Dear Whole,
You can’t have it both ways.It’s uncomfortable to tell the bagger that you want it done differently, but either you do it — politely, with a big deferential “so sorry to be That Guy about the tomatoes” smile — or you live with the flattened produce.
I just bag my own; it’s faster, it’s marginally less wasteful (more crap packed into fewer bags is easier for me to carry), and I get to decide whether to put the bleach and the bananas together.If that isn’t an option at Whole Foods, ask the baggers if they wouldn’t mind please putting your produce into the bags last, or if it’s okay if you just do it yourself, and if that doesn’t work, again, you can either live with mushed berries, or nut up and mention to customer service that the food got crushed, despite your specific and courteous intervention trying to avoid the problem.
Presumably the store has other assistant managers besides your friend.Wait until one of them is on duty to complain — or trust your friend to understand, as you should, that it is her job to address customer complaints.You don’t expect special treatment or discounts; you want what you paid for.
And leave the relative aesthetics of the baggers out of it.Venus herself wouldn’t put a ten-pound bag of potatoes on top of a carton of eggs; the issue isn’t that the girl is pretty, it’s that she’s a crappy packer.Focus on the issue.
Tags: etiquette friendships grammar retail the fam
My husband and I (well, mostly him, but I’m trying) put the heaviest groceries at the front of the belt during checkout. Maybe if your bagger gets the beer before the strawberries, the berries won’t end up smushed on the bottom.
@Whole Foods:
When you’re unpacking your cart/basket, put all the heavier stuff on the checkout counter first and leave your crushables to the very end. Then they will pack the heavier stuff first automatically. This takes very little time, and best of all, it’s non-confrontational. (I don’t like being the jerk either. Heh.)
If your friend cares about doing her job well (and I’m guessing she does), she wants to hear about a problem with her store that could be costing them money and customers. It’s not doing her a favor keeping quiet. Of course you’re not going to storm up to her house on her day off, dramatically empty your crushed groceries onto her carpet and start declaiming about her employees–you’re going to make an appointment with her in her office (if she has one) or seek her out at her place of work and calmly explain the problems you’ve been having getting your groceries packed.
And yes, I think you should do it at work, since this is all about a function of her job. I wouldn’t appreciate someone bringing up work shit, no matter how legitamate, during my down time, when I’m just trying to enjoy my drink and watch L & O reruns.
I had a problem with the quality of produce at my local Whole Foods, and I submitted a complaint via their website. They actually passed it on to the correct person at my local store, who wrote a very thoughtful note back to me. So that might be one avenue you can use to complain about the bagging.
(I will say that the quality of the bagging at my local Whole Foods is awful, while the quality at my neighborhood big chain store (which is otherwise a craphole) is excellent. I chalk it up to the difference between a union and non-union workforce. Whole Foods cashiers/baggers are frequently just there for a short-term job. Union cashiers/baggers are in it for life, and they get good at what they do.)
Whole – I’m a bit of a freak about the way my groceries are bagged, what with bringing my own bags and wanting to put all the frozen & refrigerated items together whenever possible.
One of the ways I’ve learned to work around some of the less conscientious baggers where I shop is to front-load the heavy items onto the conveyor belt and save my crushables for last.
Of course, I’m also the crazy woman who makes sure all the barcodes face up for faster scanning, so taking advice from me is a bit like consulting with the guy in the tinfoil hat.
@Search: I always bring my own bags these days anyway, so with stores like that, I just tell the checker or bagger that I don’t need a bag at all, and bag it myself. More of a pain, but better than ruined groceries.
Least definitely needs to get someone from outside the family involved – a social worker, her mother’s doctor, a therapist, etc. Sometimes when people are content to live in squalor it’s a sign of depression or other mental illness.
Does Least’s mother have a history of involvement with a local church or other organization? Church congregations might be able to pitch in to help with home repairs and maintenance (though on the fixing the oven scale, not replacing the roof scale). Talk to the clergy, even if she hasn’t attended in a long time. The kind of social support that comes with a group like that is invaluable – it might not solve the financial problems, but might help in other ways.
I have always unloaded my groceries in the order I want them bagged (heavier stuff goes at the front of the belt). Obviously some of the stuff gets moved around after going through the scanner, but 90% of the stuff I want on the bottom goes on the bottom. I always leave bread, eggs, chips, and produce until last. This way you don’t have to worry about the bagger, ever. And if by chance they go for the eggs to go on the bottom, just politely ask them to put those in last.
Dear Least, I’m fixing up my dad’s house right now that’s been left for several years without upkeep. If you get to the point where you move your mom and then have to fix up the house, you have my sympathies. I don’t know what state its in now, but I’m guessing its some bit of work.
Is there another relative that she especially likes that could step in with a fresh perspective? A sister? Brother? Cousin? Good friend? Maybe someone who’s already moved to a retirement community who could be all, “Its the best! I’m having a great time! I’ll pick you up for lunch and a card game in the atrium” (That’s how we “convinced” my grandma to go in for a check up at the big fancy clinic, she talked with one of her friends who went and thought it was great, suddenly she wanted to go, practically demanded it).
I know you live a couple states away so that’s tricky. Does she go to church? If so, maybe there’s a parish nurse that could check in or another church person? Start with the church secretary perhaps. Otherwise, its possible to get a social worker involved to check in and see how she’s doing age/disablity/mental-wise. You could play innocent that you didn’t call them–but that might get her thinking about her situation.
Just braining storming ideas here. My dad had a mental illness and when my parents go divorced there were some difficult situations with him being alone.
I can promise you, Whole: yours won’t be the only complaint on the subject they’ve gotten. Find comfort in crowds.
I have fought a war with myself for years in 1) trying to explain to uninterested highschoolers how groceries should be bagged; 2) trying not to go ballistic over something so puny as sloppily-bagged stuff. And – Uncle! – I have lost. I now have a ginormous canvas beach bag which I bring to the store with me, and a ‘Oh, gee, thanks, no thanks, I’ll pack’ while sheepishly gesturing to ginormo-sack. It helps that I shop in off-hours, where the staff turnover is small and they all know me now.
I have gotten the ‘ who do you think you are – how DARE you think I can’t pack your groceries’ from the easily offended, but I figure they aren’t long for a customer service gig anyway, and I don’t worry about it. Because it’s just not worth the internal combustion of letting them do it, regardless of how ridiculous said combustion is.
Like Barbara, I’m very strategic about placing my groceries on the conveyer. Cans and jars first, then boxes, then produce, then breads or other squashables. Jugs and anything else that I don’t want bagged, last. Of course, I usually end up with all my cans in one bag, which isn’t ideal, but it’s preferable to having the cans on top of my tomatoes.
good lord, just bag your own groceries. like sars said, you can pick what you want to put where, and fit more stuff into fewer bags.
I too group my groceries on the belt: cold stuff, produce, canned goods, etc, in the order I want it bagged. And, I’ll say, “Could you please keep the cold stuff together?” or “I’d like the produce together in one bag, please.” Polite and direct. I started doing this after a bagger couldn’t understand why I didn’t want a heavy bottle of juice on top of the eggs and then proceeded to take everything out of the bag and hand it to me one by one, expecting me to carry it out of the store that way. WFF?! Anyway, I keep an eye on the bagging and politely ask them to do it differently if things are getting squished.
I’m with Barbara B. I load my stuff on the belt so that the heavy stuff goes across first and the produce/bread/eggs goes across last. I also group my stuff together. Cold stuff stays colder with other cold stuff and grapes are less likely to beat up on the strawberries than if the berries get sacked with the big jar of mayo.
After a similar problem at a grocery store where the management wouldn’t have been useful, I just started asking for certain things in a separate bag. “Hey, could you put the berries and eggs in a separate bag for me?” It actually would probably work best with Barbara B’s suggestion – that way they don’t forget when the eggs come along.
I do the same thing as Barbara. I always put my groceries on the belt in the order that I want them bagged. You can also bring your own bag and ask, specifically, that they put all produce in that one bag. If at all possible, I do self-checkout, as well.
Whole —
I bagged groceries for $5.15 an hour in high school and here are my suggestions:
-Try grouping your groceries together on the belt by likeness: produce, meat, frozen items, canned goods, dairy, things that shouldn’t go with food (household cleaners, etc.). This will make it easier on the person assigned to bag your groceries, and will probably reduce the chances of beer-crushed-strawberries. When I did this job we were trained to bag like this (esp. the frozen stuff as it tended to keep cold longer in the car) and it’s a HUGE pain in the ass when it’s all scattered — this is why people frequently wind up with 900 bags of stuff at your Average Suburban Grocery Store.
-Bag it yourself. We always had customers who were fussy about their stuff, and a polite “I’ll bag it — I’m particular about the way I like my groceries bagged, but thank you anyway” was all I needed to go find something else to occupy myself. I never took any offense, and I doubt those at your Whole Foods will either. The only thing with this strategy is that if a manager starts hassling the bagger for slacking, it’s your responsibility to tell the person in charge that you requested to bag your own stuff. Don’t throw the kid under the bus.
Good luck!
My husband manages a retail store, one where a number of his friends shop, and I know that he would want to hear about any problems at his store from them rather than an irate stranger. If it’s happened more than once, it’s not just happening to Whole; there likely are a lot of irritated customers out there. It’s going to cost the store business, or at least the cost of replacing produce for people who complain about it. There’s no reason why Whole shouldn’t be able to bring it up to the friend in a polite way. “Hey, this is happening, and it’s an issue, and I’d hate for you to lose business in general over something that should be easy to correct.”
Glad to hear that I am not the only one that obsessively unloads my cart in the order I want things bagged. Not just heavy stuff, but I also group things that needs to be refrigerated so it’s easier to unpack back home.
I also rearrange things in the dishwasher too, which drives my husband crazy, but that’s a story for another Vine, I suppose.
Whole Foods – this problem is not confined to your store – my local Safeway’s employees have the same problem. My strategy is to send the heaviest items down the belt first, and politely ask the bagger to put the more delicate things in on top. So far, it has worked. I haven’t had to tell the same bagger twice. I’d also bring it up to the manger, if I were you – you are probably not the only person who gets home to discover fresh strawberry jam on the bottom of your beer bottles. If no one speaks up, the problem will persist.
I’ve had @Whole’s problem, too, and damn if I never thought to pre-sort things when I put them on the belt?!?! The Nationalists prove their genius once again!
I bagged groceries in HS, and I can tell you that the bagger won’t take offense, because after a while she stops noticing individuals.
“I’ll do it, but thanks,” or “Do you mind putting the produce in one bag”, are not bitchy comments- she’ll be fine.
Whole: It’s Farmer’s Market season, so that should help out with the selection of good produce bagged by people who care about the quality.
I’ve just made the transition (mostly) to cloth bags, but before that I preferred paper. I do do the sorting on the belt but I found that baggers really wanted to pack for volume instead of weight. I mean, hey, it is nice that you got those 20 cans of soup in that bag, but now how am I going to carry it without rupture?
My funny bagging story though happened late one night, when I assume the bagger was a little exhausted. I came through with some friends, buying supplies to make a big meal for the next day, including an extra long loaf of italian bread. The bagger snatched it up, folded it in half, and put it in the bag. Then he stopped, looked at what he had done, turned to my friend (the purchaser) and said, “You did want your bread folded, right?” She was so stunned she just said, “Uh, Yeah, thanks.” and we headed out.
I organize my items on the conveyor belt as I would like them packed. So I put the heavy stuff first, then non-cold/non-crushable, then all the cold/noncrushable stuff, and then the crushable stuff last. That way everything gets bagged in groups that I can then pack into my car and unload efficiently. Keeping the cold stuff together means that if I have to make multiple trips to unload, I can grab all the cold stuff first and not worry if I get a phone call or take a bathroom break before unloading the rest.
Least–it sounds like the finances are the major issue here, so maybe your mom and dad need to have a conversation and figure something out about the house, whether it’s repairs or selling. Alternatively, would it be possible to find a renter who would be willing to pay a little less in rent in exchange for help around the house (anything from cleaning to mowing the lawn and/or other repairs)? I have a friend who is blind and has had this arrangement with several roommates, and each time worked great (the only reason it ended is if the person moved away or moved in with a SO, etc.).
I agree that she needs a counselor of some sort, if nothing else to help her self-advocate a little more as she wants to continue living independently. Depending on her disability (and what state she is in), there may be in-home help (free of charge) to help her with adaptations for independent living, or in-home visits to help with chores.
Least, here’s a website that may or may not help:
http://www.eldercare.gov/Eldercare.NET/Public/Home.aspx
The insurance I get through work also comes with a Health Advocate
service that people here really like. They helped one of my coworkers
when her elderly father had a stroke.
One thing from your letter–it sounds like you’re worrying about everything at once. The house falling down on top of your mom’s health and future. It may be helping to do some mental triage–mom first, then all the other stuff (which will, believe me, be sorted out eventually). Compartmentalize like mad, and if someone starts pushing you to worry about things not yet pressing, ignore.
The point is to do the things you can do, one at a time. And maybe even START by doing something doable, just to get your morale up.
My family had a similar problem when we were trying to convince my (late) grandparents to move to a retirement home. They lived in a condo and after my grandmother had a stroke, my grandfather was taking care of him all by himself. We brought him around by pointing out how much simpler their life would be: nursing help always around, they had the option to cook or eat in the main dining room, etc. My point is, maybe try emphasizing the positives with your mom, rather than making it sound like something she *has* to do. Which I think she does, but you see what I mean.
Whole Foods? I pity you lovelies who don’t live within reasonable distance of a Wegmans. I could go on for days about how much I love my local Wegmans, but I won’t. Just… if you’ve ever shopped at one, you are wrecked for other stores forever.
Until Wegmans takes over the world, however, just go with what the other TN’s are saying and put the heavy stuff on the belt first or bag it yourself. If your Whole Foods cashier would rather stare out the window anyway, well, you’ve done her a favor!
I thought I was the only person who was strategic about item placement on the conveyor belt. I get frantic trying to get all of the items out of the cart, place the fresh/cold/box/can/bag foods together, undo my reusable Baggu bags, hand over only the coupons for things I’m buying, pull out my keychain with the store loyalty discount card, and dig out my wallet to swipe my payment method through the machine. All while not being the person everybody gets frustrated at for taking too long.
Oh, and I also want to second what Sars said about your mom wanting control of her own life. Her stubbornness is manifesting itself in a negative way right now, but it’s not a bad thing in itself–it’s the will to live and maintain dignity, and God forbid it go.
My fiance & I tag-team the checkout aisle–I pre-sort all the groceries on the belt (glad to see I’m not alone!), and he bags everything while I handle the money and make sure all the coupons & discounts ring up. No crushed strawberries anymore, but since I’m the nonconfrontational one, we do get the occasional garlic-rung-up-as-an-onion.
[My pet peeve is when the clerks *slam* the produce down on the scale. I spent 10 minutes going through all the pears and bananas, and I still end up with bruised fruit? Not cool, yo.]
I can only afford to shop at Whole Foods these days for specialty items, but the service has always been exemplary. (Then again, I live in a tony area where less-than-stellar customer service will result in a tongue-lashing that leaves scars.)
I take it one step further – I organize my CART by type, so I don’t have to think about when I’m at the belt.
This drives my shares-the-grocery-bills roommate BATTY, but it helps me not feel like I’m inconveniencing anyone (well, strangers. Roommate can calmly meditate if I need a mo’ to shift the flour so it’s away from the grapes.) when there are 12 people behind me in line and I just happen to want my eggs to make it home before they are scrambled.
This also gives me that certain anal-retentive thrill of having such a nicely organized cart. I’ll join Gabrielle in the corner with the Tinfoil Hat Dude.
What drives me nuts is that even though I always make an effort to group my groceries logically (canned goods, boxes, cold stuff, delicate stuff), it doesn’t matter. The baggers do whatever-the-hell and apparently they don’t bother to train baggers around here or the baggers just don’t care. I seriously had That Guy put the bottle of seltzer in with the eggs yesterday.
I have tried telling them that I would prefer to bag my own, and I actively avoid the lane with That Guy in it (but sometimes they rotate around). Dude would bag bread with watermelon. In fact, I’m seriously beginning to think that he does look for ways to make the worst possible combinations. I would complain to the manager, but That Guy is also very old and I wonder if this is one of the only jobs he can handle. Seriously though, the one-handed bagger is better than this guy.
Oh, @Jessica, I’m like Krissa, I organize the cart as I go. It had actually never occurred to me that people didn’t. Doesn’t your stuff get crushed otherwise? If you don’t leave space for the beer as you go, it’s such a pain to re-sort when you get to the cooler case. I know some of us probably sound hyper-anal, but I bet it’s so automatic for us that we don’t even really think about it.
Whole — I agree with most of the comments already posted and I didn’t want to repeat. I just had another thought that could be helpful, and that is to complement the checkers who ARE doing a good job bagging your stuff. That’s probably true for everything out there in the world, but people improve through positive reinforcement. The checker just gets one bag right out of 3? Tell her she did a great job on that bag, and why (“Thanks for putting the bread on top!”), and it might sink in, or carry over to other checkers nearby.
I’m another conveyor-belt organizer, but I do recommend talking to your friend the assistant manager. As someone with my own staff, and my own boss, I can tell you that when my performance evaluation rolls around, it’s great to be able to talk about how I was able to solve problems that came up with my staff via training or coaching or other interventions. Solving customer problems is part of her job; if customers are unhappy with the bagging, and she fixes the problem, it looks good on her, not bad.
Regarding the Whole Foods thing, I could be totally wrong! But based on the whole judging baggers by appearance, and that s/he apparently never bags her own groceries? The smushed groceries may very well not be an accident. I worked in a supermarket a few years ago, and in one of my first days of training, my manager of all people said that if people were really obnoxious, they’d ruin their groceries in the manner that was described.
People who don’t bag their groceries in general tend to really piss off supermarket employees. If you’re able-bodied and not looking after toddlers, standing there directing traffic instead of pitching in just makes you look ignorant at best. Yes they “pay people to do that,” but it doesn’t change how supermarket employees see it.
I’ve never crushed anyone’s groceries, but then I’ve been a waitress and never spit in anyone’s food. It’s not “right” — but it happens, and it’s very cause and effect. So if Whole Foods wants uncrushed groceries, s/he might want to just, for shits and giggles, try less judging, more bagging, and see what happens.
See, I thought EVERYONE pre-sorted their groceries from the cart onto the belt. That’s just what you do right? Huh? Really…anyway, presort seems to be the safest bet.
Yeah, the bagging thing seems like maybe you’re making it a tad more difficult than it needs to be. If you don’t habitually complain to your friend about work, I seriously doubt she’ll mind if she says, “Hey, before I forget, I’m noticing that some of the checkers over there don’t seem to have all the details down to make sure groceries make it home safely, so you might want to do a refresher for them.” It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that; I doubt it’s going to turn into a huge deal.
Furthermore, until you feel confident, you can bag your own groceries. For many years, I shopped exclusively at bag-your-own places, and I still do a lot of it at the self-checkout. Hold up your reusable bags and say, “I’ll bag them myself, thank you.” It’s possible that people will think you’re implying that they can’t bag your groceries properly, but…you are. And that’s okay.
To Judi: Wow, I have to admit that at 31 years old it never occured to me that I was supposed to assist the grocery bagger. I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way, just that it never crossed my mind that I should interfere with the process. I don’t usually have a full cart, so by the time I swipe the discount card and my credit card, the bagger is done and I’m good to go. Trying to help the bagger seems like it would slow the process down for you and everyone behind you. Now I’m curious to ask my brother (who has worked in a variety of grocery stores) about this.
My mother-in-law has complimented me on how my “putting groceries on the conveyor belt” skills. Where I shop (or, as we say in New Orleans, “make groceries”), I haven’t had any problems with how the groceries are bagged.
As to Whole’s comments on the baggers’ appearance:
“I go to any Publix in the state and ladies that look like Waffle House employees can bag an entire week’s worth of groceries in 10 seconds flat, without puncturing a single tomato. I go to Whole Foods, and a college girl that looks like one of Botticelli’s models stares vacantly out the window while slowly placing numerous bottles and cans on top of my bananas.”
What does it mean to “look like Waffle House employees”? Whole doesn’t want to be the jerk telling the cashier how to bag her groceries, but she is the jerk who decides that cashier attractiveness is inversely proportional to bagging skill?
Dude, I used to work at a WF, and our front-end managers were *constantly* on our case about packing groceries the right way. I once got yelled at for putting the bananas on top of the strawberries. Yes, strawberries when out of the clamshell are more delicate, but the corners of the clamshell are more dangerous to the bananas than the bananas are to the clamshell. Also, grapes on top of eggs are not a federal offense. Maybe my manager was just a little more OCD than the rest?
I had plenty of customers come through asking for all the cold things together, or all the cans and boxes together. I always wanted to roll my eyes at them, because that’s how my mom taught me to bag groceries once I was tall enough to reach the end of the conveyor belt when I went shopping with her. The checkers always thought it was cute. I thought I was being helpful. Mom just got her groceries packed the way she wanted them. Win-win-win all around, right?
My biggest WF pet peeve? The customers who don’t weigh their own produce. No, really, I don’t have all 200 varieties of apples memorized with their PLU numbers. (I just weighed everything as Galas and hoped no one noticed.)
Suz — I live on Long Island, so I’m not sure how it is in other places, which I didn’t think of to clarify before. But on Long Island at least, that is how it is. If you only have a few items and are by yourself, that’s cool. It’s not like anyone has to knock anyone over! But there are people who’ll come in with HUGE carts of everything in the world, then just WATCH and criticize, even if there is no bagger, only a cashier. There always seemed to be a direct relationship between how helpful someone was with the bagging process, and how critical they were. (The people who helped tended to be much nicer.) A lot of the people in the town I worked in never worked a blue collar job in their lives though, so that didn’t help matters.
Isis — I totally agree about “Waffle House employees,” et al., which was what gave me more of an inkling that she was possibly dropping attitude that was leading to her grocery destruction.
cashier attractiveness is inversely proportional to bagging skill
Which fact is, it sounds like, exactly counter to his/her belief that attractiveness should be directly proportional to bagging skill. Either being hot requires too much mental energy to let you focus on doing your job, or hotness automatically bestows competence along with its other virtues.
Former Whole Foods cashier here, adding my two cents. Right on about organizing your conveyer belt and/or bagging your own. Both shouldn’t be offensive to the cashier/bagger and they should, in fact, thank you for helping them out.
I agree, some folks are there short-term and totally don’t care about the customer service aspects. But, in my store, some of the baggers came from a local agency that helps developmentally disabled folks to gain/maintain their independence. This means that sometimes, no matter how often or nicely I reminded, I would have to remove the watermelon from my bagger’s hands before he put it on the eggs. And this is a lifer. Just a possible scenario.
Also, I would definitely talk to your friend, as opposed to a different manager. If you use the “sandwich” approach (I love this – I don’t like this – I love this) to discuss the problem, it shouldn’t cause offense, and she would probably rather here it from you than hearsay from you. The one other thing I would recommend is that you name names. Pay attention to the culprit(s) so that the crew leader can be effective to curtail the problem.
Whew! Thrilled that I have swapped the gig for grad school, but still in the scene, as it were.
Although I have a good idea what “Whole” meant about the Waffle House employee, in my city the Waffle House employees have actually been the cute college girls (except for the guy working the grill). They’ve also been very polite, friendly, and efficient and have well-deserved the tips they receive.
As for the Whole Foods’ cashiers? I can’t afford enough groceries at Whole Foods to warrant any bagging mishaps.
As a cashier supervisor for Super Target, I can tell you one dirty little secret about cashiers: usually, when new hires are processed, the ones sent to cashier are often the one that are either not physically able to do more demanding jobs, clearly would not hack it in more demanding workcenters, would not be trusted to handle food, or are under 18 and cannot work any position that requires use of heavy equipment… yeah, the cashiers are often the bottom of the barrel. I have also learned that some people will deliberately only go through the lines of female cashiers over 20 because they don’t trust teens or men to bag groceries.
But, seriously, it’s not that hard, and I cannot figure out why this is such a challenging skill for some people to learn….
Suz: I agree. I worked checkout at a small mom and pop grocery, and my boss didn’t like it if we let people bag their own groceries, since bagging was part of the service- he’d come down on us hard if he thought we were slacking off (and even harder if he saw us put the eggs at the bottom of the bag!) Also, at most of the stores I shop at, there is no easy access to the checked items for the shopper- there’s always the credit card swiper, change machine, etc. in the way.
Maybe it’s just a Trader Joes thing, but they actively encourage people to bag their own food… not in a bad way, it’s just clear that it’s generally how it’s done. And the checkers are always super grateful that you’re helping out. I can’t imagine the Whole Foods employees being offended that you’re taking a load off them.
Hee @ Judi, I know what you mean. When I was a teenage checkout chick and someone was really rude, sanctimonious, treated me like a moron because I was working there or started taking out store policy on me, the lowly payed cashier who only works there 8 hours a week and thus has zero say about anything, I made a point of over-packing the bags and squashing the bread. Passive agressive I know, but that’s teenagers for you. Other customers, I was more than happy to accomodate requests in any way I could (except I’d maybe inwardly curese those who would rock up at the register at closing time with two trolleys worth of stuff).
It’s also why I caution people about getting rid of phone market researchers with abuse. Not only does it take far longer than a simple “no thank-you” allowing us both to get on with our lives, but when I did at university I would write down the numbers of the really obnoxious people and then wait until I was out at 3am at a nightclub and call them from a public phone and hang up. OK, that’s a shitty thing to do and I’m not going to justify it as right, but the point is that being polite to others comes with an instant karma.