<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Vine: November 7, 2008</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/</link>
	<description>better red than dead</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 20:53:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sistah</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26839</link>
		<dc:creator>Sistah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26839</guid>
		<description>I have only read a short story version of this in a collection of Kress&#039; stories called &quot;Beaker&#039;s Dozen.&quot; I&#039;m intrigued by the idea of there being more of them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have only read a short story version of this in a collection of Kress&#039; stories called &#034;Beaker&#039;s Dozen.&#034; I&#039;m intrigued by the idea of there being more of them!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CJB</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26805</link>
		<dc:creator>CJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26805</guid>
		<description>Ooooh! I loved this book and was excited to jump in and save the day by knowing the title, only to find, of course, that 20-odd people had beaten me to it. C&#039;est la vie. But I&#039;m still excited that others out there remember it. 

Almost more than the Sleepless themselves, a lot of what I remember about the book (and to a lesser degree the rest of the series -- I know I read them all but I don&#039;t remember much about them beyond the first one, which I guess I must have read a couple of times) is the divide, not between the Sleepless and the sleepers but between the &quot;genemods&quot; and the non-genemods. There basically developed this underclass of unattractive, not especially intelligent, ordinary people who couldn&#039;t afford genemods, and of course the people who could afford them could literally buy for their progeny smarts, beauty, height, good health, etc. It was scary, and it doesn&#039;t seem all that far-fetched (I mean, the upper class can practically do that now, without genetic modification). I think in the books the &quot;sleepless&quot; genemod was outlawed fairly quickly, but the other ones weren&#039;t.

I did think the idea that it turns out that sleeping is a caveman leftover and that getting rid of it makes you smarter and never-aging was a bit convenient, but I bought it because it was the big leap the rest of the book required, and beyond that I thought she did a pretty realistic job.

I also liked her book [i]Brainrose[/i], in which a bunch of people undergo surgery to allow them to remember their past lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooooh! I loved this book and was excited to jump in and save the day by knowing the title, only to find, of course, that 20-odd people had beaten me to it. C&#039;est la vie. But I&#039;m still excited that others out there remember it. </p>
<p>Almost more than the Sleepless themselves, a lot of what I remember about the book (and to a lesser degree the rest of the series &#8212; I know I read them all but I don&#039;t remember much about them beyond the first one, which I guess I must have read a couple of times) is the divide, not between the Sleepless and the sleepers but between the &#034;genemods&#034; and the non-genemods. There basically developed this underclass of unattractive, not especially intelligent, ordinary people who couldn&#039;t afford genemods, and of course the people who could afford them could literally buy for their progeny smarts, beauty, height, good health, etc. It was scary, and it doesn&#039;t seem all that far-fetched (I mean, the upper class can practically do that now, without genetic modification). I think in the books the &#034;sleepless&#034; genemod was outlawed fairly quickly, but the other ones weren&#039;t.</p>
<p>I did think the idea that it turns out that sleeping is a caveman leftover and that getting rid of it makes you smarter and never-aging was a bit convenient, but I bought it because it was the big leap the rest of the book required, and beyond that I thought she did a pretty realistic job.</p>
<p>I also liked her book [i]Brainrose[/i], in which a bunch of people undergo surgery to allow them to remember their past lives.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luna</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26782</link>
		<dc:creator>Luna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26782</guid>
		<description>Yeah, one of the side effects, and I believe it was unanticipated, was that the positive brain effects we only get in sleep occurred in the background throughout the day for the Sleepless, so they were actually happier and more well adjusted than normal people.

The whole idea of genetic modification is pretty cool, and Nancy Kress does it well, but what she does better than most science fiction writers, imo of course, is her characters. They all feel like real, complex, multi-dimensional people, and they&#039;re really the focus of the story.

I can understand people being disappointed at where the story ends up in the rest of the trilogy. The original idea gets lost along the way, if the original idea is the idea of the Sleepless. After rereading the series several times, I really think the overall theme is what do the powerful owe to the powerless? If looked at that way, instead of losing the original theme, each book builds and expands upon it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, one of the side effects, and I believe it was unanticipated, was that the positive brain effects we only get in sleep occurred in the background throughout the day for the Sleepless, so they were actually happier and more well adjusted than normal people.</p>
<p>The whole idea of genetic modification is pretty cool, and Nancy Kress does it well, but what she does better than most science fiction writers, imo of course, is her characters. They all feel like real, complex, multi-dimensional people, and they&#039;re really the focus of the story.</p>
<p>I can understand people being disappointed at where the story ends up in the rest of the trilogy. The original idea gets lost along the way, if the original idea is the idea of the Sleepless. After rereading the series several times, I really think the overall theme is what do the powerful owe to the powerless? If looked at that way, instead of losing the original theme, each book builds and expands upon it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ix</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26748</link>
		<dc:creator>Ix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26748</guid>
		<description>Gah. Meant to change that completely from &quot;original twelve&quot; to &quot;twenty-one&quot; - according to Wikipedia, the first generation of Sleepless did only consist of 21 individuals. (Although I only *remember* there being twelve.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gah. Meant to change that completely from &#034;original twelve&#034; to &#034;twenty-one&#034; &#8211; according to Wikipedia, the first generation of Sleepless did only consist of 21 individuals. (Although I only *remember* there being twelve.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erin MJ</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26745</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26745</guid>
		<description>Mombie, you beat me to it. That&#039;s not a science fiction story, it&#039;s a horror story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mombie, you beat me to it. That&#039;s not a science fiction story, it&#039;s a horror story.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ix</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26729</link>
		<dc:creator>Ix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 07:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26729</guid>
		<description>@Lianne: If I remember right, the original twelve Sleepless weren&#039;t all born to incredibly rich parents (although the *majority* were, yes); by the point they came around, designer babies were essentially the new I-Pod - so anyone who could scrape up the cash to tweak their kids&#039; genes in utero was doing so.

But the original twenty-one were done when the Sleepless modification was still experimental - so it was offered to anyone with the money and the willingness to subject their kid to something that might go horribly wrong. As a result, not all the parents were capable of hiring a fleet of nurses to care for the kid - so, unfortunately, only twenty of the kids grew up; the twenty-first was shaken to death by its mother, because it wouldn&#039;t stop crying (I think it was implied that the baby in question was suffering from colic).

I don&#039;t remember how Kress handwaved the effects of sleep deprivation, but however it worked, it also resulted in the Sleepless not aging; their bodies kept regenerating new cells for all their organs (although they still went through menopause - the effect only worked on cells that were encoded to make more of themselves; eggs aren&#039;t encoded to do that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lianne: If I remember right, the original twelve Sleepless weren&#039;t all born to incredibly rich parents (although the *majority* were, yes); by the point they came around, designer babies were essentially the new I-Pod &#8211; so anyone who could scrape up the cash to tweak their kids&#039; genes in utero was doing so.</p>
<p>But the original twenty-one were done when the Sleepless modification was still experimental &#8211; so it was offered to anyone with the money and the willingness to subject their kid to something that might go horribly wrong. As a result, not all the parents were capable of hiring a fleet of nurses to care for the kid &#8211; so, unfortunately, only twenty of the kids grew up; the twenty-first was shaken to death by its mother, because it wouldn&#039;t stop crying (I think it was implied that the baby in question was suffering from colic).</p>
<p>I don&#039;t remember how Kress handwaved the effects of sleep deprivation, but however it worked, it also resulted in the Sleepless not aging; their bodies kept regenerating new cells for all their organs (although they still went through menopause &#8211; the effect only worked on cells that were encoded to make more of themselves; eggs aren&#039;t encoded to do that).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sandman</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26725</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 01:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26725</guid>
		<description>Now I want to read these books, if only to see how Kress handwaves around the toxic effects of sleep deprivation. The series kind of reminds me of another science fiction trilogy wherein most of a generation of children is modified so that they will never grow old. A similar kind of gulf opens between the immortal kids and their mortal contemporaries. (I&#039;m thinking of the Earth Child trilogy by Sharon Webb, for those who&#039;re interested - although it might be more YA than Kress&#039;s books.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I want to read these books, if only to see how Kress handwaves around the toxic effects of sleep deprivation. The series kind of reminds me of another science fiction trilogy wherein most of a generation of children is modified so that they will never grow old. A similar kind of gulf opens between the immortal kids and their mortal contemporaries. (I&#039;m thinking of the Earth Child trilogy by Sharon Webb, for those who&#039;re interested &#8211; although it might be more YA than Kress&#039;s books.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: autiger23</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26724</link>
		<dc:creator>autiger23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 01:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26724</guid>
		<description>As someone who has a multitude of nightmares, and never remembers the good dreams, it sounds kind of awesome to me. I can&#039;t imagine how much that would screw up our brains, though- giving them no time for the subconsious to take over. Now I need to read the book just to see how the author handled that. Heh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has a multitude of nightmares, and never remembers the good dreams, it sounds kind of awesome to me. I can&#039;t imagine how much that would screw up our brains, though- giving them no time for the subconsious to take over. Now I need to read the book just to see how the author handled that. Heh!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amie</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26723</link>
		<dc:creator>Amie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26723</guid>
		<description>Not ever sleeping means not dreaming, and as someone who has some very interesting and entertaining (and sometimes beautiful) dreams sometimes, that makes me very sad to imagine, actually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not ever sleeping means not dreaming, and as someone who has some very interesting and entertaining (and sometimes beautiful) dreams sometimes, that makes me very sad to imagine, actually.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lianne</title>
		<link>http://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-november-7-2008/comment-page-1/#comment-26721</link>
		<dc:creator>Lianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tomatonation.com/?p=2803#comment-26721</guid>
		<description>Like everyone else says, Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress. I loved that book, and I think I read it about the same time you did. Not as fond of the others... still haven&#039;t gotten to the third one because I didn&#039;t make it through the second. But the first was brilliant.

As a note to the horrified mothers, though: as I remember, only the incredibly rich could afford to have the gene modification for their children to be Sleepless. They were the kind who could afford round-the-clock nannies and who wouldn&#039;t be dealing directly with their children all day (and night).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like everyone else says, Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress. I loved that book, and I think I read it about the same time you did. Not as fond of the others&#8230; still haven&#039;t gotten to the third one because I didn&#039;t make it through the second. But the first was brilliant.</p>
<p>As a note to the horrified mothers, though: as I remember, only the incredibly rich could afford to have the gene modification for their children to be Sleepless. They were the kind who could afford round-the-clock nannies and who wouldn&#039;t be dealing directly with their children all day (and night).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

