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Home » The Vine

The Vine: June 22, 2004

Submitted by on June 22, 2004 – 4:17 PMNo Comment

Sarah,

This is a long story, but I will try and stick to the relevant issues. I
recently got engaged to a wonderful man, J. We’ve dated for two and a half years and
I am completely happy with our relationship and looking forward to
marriage. He has a five-year-old son, E, from a previous relationship (they
weren’t married), and E and I get along famously.

The problem is E’s mother, T. She is controlling, selfish, unstable, and
has a completely fucked-up life. This is because of the terrible choices
she continues to make, yet she blames everyone else for her problems. (To
give you an idea of how screwed up her life is, her husband just left her
while five months pregnant with his child, because she was pulling the same
crap with him that she did with J and she’s so hard to live with.) J split
with T when E was about one and a half for many reasons, mostly because she has a
horrible temper and is prone to violence. As far as we know, she has never
hit E, but she attacked J several times. J and T went through a bad time,
but by the time I entered, they were friendly. Sometimes too friendly for
my taste, so J, respecting our new relationship, cut communication back to
just co-parenting E.

Despite all of this (or before I knew how bad it really was), I tried to
forge a friendship with her in the beginning. I didn’t necessarily want a
best friend, but I hoped we could at least be amicable. To be fair, she did
speak to me on several occasions, or smile and say hello. But 75 percent of our
interaction was passive-aggressively nasty, and it has gotten worse over
time. But always very subtle, so J wouldn’t notice. (Men don’t seem to be
attuned to the wily ways of women sometimes.) Things like dirty looks when
he couldn’t see or condescending tones, but mostly just completely ignoring
me and acting as if I wasn’t there, even after I gave a friendly hello.

Her latest stunt was to move 300 miles away behind J’s back, and take E
with her. J is a very involved father and E means the world to him, so he
took her to court. But fathers don’t get many breaks in Texas, so the judge
let her go. Now, E must fly to our house for visitation. Needless to say,
this is very stressful for everyone, but especially E. A five-year-old
shouldn’t have to deal with this kind of stuff.

Things have gotten very nasty and any chance for an amicable relationship
is over. T dragged my name through the mud in court (nothing she said
was true, but to use baseless accusations against me to try and take J’s
son from him is unacceptable) and has called J’s family crying to them
about how mean I am to her and she just wants to be friends and has always
been so nice to me, and then grills them about me, my financial situation,
my relationship with J, et cetera and tried turning them against me.
(Fortunately, they see through this and will no longer talk to her.)

The last straw was when we recently had a conversation with E about our
engagement to make sure he was comfortable with it and to answer his
questions. He said he was happy about it and loves me, but that his mother
does not like me and does not want me to be his stepmother. He went on to
say that she frequently talks about how she does not like me, tells him
that I don’t like her, and she won’t even speak my name or write it on a
card for him when he asked her to. I don’t like her, true, but I would
NEVER say that to, or in front of, E. I was floored and didn’t know what to
say. I handled it as best I could, but it’s clear she is brainwashing him
against me. I can only hope E sees through her games when he gets older,
because I love him and want to continue the good relationship we have.

Finally, my question. How do I not let her get to me? Even though I have
been told that she is crazy, jealous of me, miserable in her own life, et cetera
and that I should just ignore her, I can’t stop obsessing over this. Her
behavior infuriates me and I find myself dreaming of ways to get her back
for all her actions and having conversations in my head where I tell her
off. I rarely have to deal with her personally, but I hear things she does
and says from others. Everyone tells me not to let it bother me, that my
thinking about it all the time is giving it energy and letting her win. I
get that and truly want to be able to rise above it, but how do I do that?
Any suggestions on dealing with someone like this and not letting her get
under my skin?

Frustrated


Dear Frustrated,

Just keep doing what you’re doing — bite your tongue, remain friendly/civil to her face, don’t shit-talk her to E, and stay out of it to the best of your ability.I know she’s a miserable beeyotch, but you have to trust that people get the lives they deserve and not give in to the temptation to hurry that process along.

I mean, she knows everyone thinks she’s a skeeze, and she doesn’t know how to handle it like an adult, so she just keeps perpetuation the behavior; she blew herself up with E’s grandparents, and she’s going to do it with E eventually.

That doesn’t always help you on an everyday basis, so the next time you find yourself seething about her, set aside five minutes to do nothing but that.Draw an unflattering picture of her with editorial comments, or make a list of the ways she sucks, or scream into a pillow, and at the end of the five minutes, get rid of the evidence and find something else to do.Sometimes, trying to push something out of your head winds up lodging it there more firmly, so give yourself a small increment of time to send stink waves of hate in her general direction, but keep it small and cut it off.

She’s going to bother you; she’s a bothersome person, and you’re only human.But give yourself a little credit for handling it maturely so far, build on that, and if you need to take ten to draw her face on a Post-It and stab it with the pen, nobody judges you.


Dear Sars,

I’ve been following your site for years, and I really appreciate your longevity and wit. But I’ve never had a problem I might heap on your doorstep — until now.

My husband and I decided last year to move our family to Europe for the Adventure of a Lifetime. We sold our house, banked the profit, and found a lovely little town (very different from our big city past) to settle into, full of falling down medieval walls, tasty local beer, six weeks paid vacation per year, and verdant nearby forests.

I knew going into this that it had the potential to become a nightmare of isolation for me, since I am the one with the worst German speaking skills. Took it in college, but…you know. Yet I still wanted this experience. I am in language class, and I am slowly putting together sentences and am able to order a dozen breadrolls at the bakery with ease. But it’s still rather like David Sedaris’ Me Talk Pretty One Day. And how.

But, I love to communicate, and all my U.S. friendships are about that — talking politics, pop culture, Jungian whatevers, et cetera. I have, at “home,” friends who I needn’t see or talk to more than once a month to feel connected with them — and that’s good for them, too. But, sure, I miss the intense yammering. At times I am intensely lonely here. But friendship-wise? I believe it starts with chemistry and if it’s worth it, can be built slowly and casually over the course of time.

So…

My littlest son is in kindergarten and made friends with another boy. His mother sort of decided that we were going to be Best Friends, and without double-checking with me, has been working on that premise ever since. She drove me home from the kindy a coupla times, and we struggled through talking — she’s never been out of this town, and works at the local gardening store. We sort of have gardening in common, and that’s about it. Okay.

Over time, we had a couple of get-togethers punctuated by communication breakdowns, and ultimately I felt maybe it wasn’t going to get any better. Carsten reads her as very “always right” and rigid, and he notices that she doesn’t listen to me. Yeah, I’ve noticed too. I listen and listen and then when it’s my turn, she turns off and starts petting the cat. But, who can blame her? Should I be grateful that someone is willing to put up with my horrible grammar?

She started giving me presents. And dropping by.Just dropping by? Hate that. She dropped by at 9:30 one night to give me a planter, the day I’d returned from a 12-hour trip to America. I didn’t ask her to sit down…we had just gotten the kids off to bed and it was time to wind down. So — we stood in the hall for the next hour, still talking, but looking at watches and yawning. It seems like she is incapable of getting subtle messages of any kind — the antennae are just not up. Lord, and I sound like a total mouseburger.

It feels like being speechless has really taken a bite out of my self-esteem. Instead of dealing with it, I have tried evasive maneuvers. Last time she phoned after our son had pneumonia for two weeks, and suggested they drop by on Sunday to visit him. We’ve spent a week in and out of hospital, and haven’t had a weekend to ourselves in a month, and he was going to be in school on Monday where her son could see him, then. I said as much, which would usually amount to an effective evasive maneuver, but she said she’d phone first before dropping by. Because I didn’t have the words, I brightly agreed. Sunday arrives. Ten minutes after we get in the door from a Sunday drive, our doorbell rings, and we don’t answer it.

Now it feels weird and stalking — which must be a karmic 2 x 4 for me, since I subjected at least one poor bastard (sorry, Frank) to my obsessive desire for them at university. But technically? There’s nothing horribly wrong with her behaviour — it just feels suffocating to me. She’s just trying to be my friend.

So, I’ve been in total withdrawal — I don’t phone her, or go buy plants at the only plant store in town. I’m doing my best to show her how not-worth-it I am. I mean, what’s in it for her? But, I’ve gone from chooser to beggar, here, and fast. Why shouldn’t I let a friendship happen? What’s the big deal? This is a small town, and she’s been nothing but kind to me.

I feel as if I don’t have anything to contribute to a friendship right now, and that bothers me.

I don’t want to be the one continually having my speech corrected, the one who is a sort of “exotic foreign project” for the other. If she could see that, maybe we could be friends. But right now the vibes of her wanting something from me are sucking all the air out of the room.

Why do I feel so guilty, not responding to her niceness? Why is it giving me the creeps? Do I deserve the creeps, now that I didn’t speak my truth along the way? Why don’t I just go along for the ride — don’t I want to be a member of the club that would actually have me? Why do I keep thinking about this?

I’d appreciate so very much any of your thoughts.

Fish Out of Water, Deutschland


Dear Fish,

You feel guilty at least in part because you told her to come over and then didn’t answer the door.”Dick move” is an international language.

I don’t know how many damn times I have to say it, but when it becomes evident that the people in your lives don’t take hints, you need to stop dropping hints and start actually telling them what’s what.Why on earth you stood in the foyer for an hour instead of just saying, “We’re cashed from a long trip, so I’m going to say goodnight,” opening the door for her to leave, and putting an end to the encounter, I do not know — or why you couldn’t tell her your son needed to get settled in from the hospital, and could you call her later instead, since it’s not a good time for visitors?It’s YOUR HOME!Learn the German for “now isn’t a good time” already!

If you don’t want to be friends with her because she’s obtuse or condescending, that’s fine; it’s hard to split that difference when you move to a new place, and you really just want anyone to talk to so you settle for some less-than-ideal mates at first.But it’s a bit rich to accuse her of stalking you when you’ve not given her any reason to think you don’t want her around, and really, if you’re only keeping her around under “any port in a storm” pretenses…do you see where I’m going here?

I know it’s lonely when you don’t have good language skills, but that doesn’t give you the right to treat other people sketchily.Work on your German, and find some people you actually dig — and if you run across people you don’t dig, stop acting like you do.


Dear Sars:

I am a very unhappy lonely person, and I really don’t want to be that way anymore.

I tend to live in the future, hoping that things will get better. When I was in high school, I was clinically depressed (in large part because my mom died my freshman year) and kept myself going by convincing myself that I would have a great time in college, but I ended up hating the school I went to, making no good friends, dating no one, and working way too hard. I thought that living in Rome after graduation would be amazing, but I made no friends and was fired from my job with no warning and ended up having to move back in with my parents in Boston. In the last four months, I have been looking for a job in NYC, where I am planning to move this summer with my best friend.

Right now, my only friends are from grade school. They have been my best friends forever, and are great friends, but I need to meet new people. The only problem is, I have a lot of trouble making friends. This isn’t because I am shy, but because I am a nerd and I am afraid of rejection. I try to be friendly and make friends, but people never seem to like me. I was super-unpopular in grade school, was dumped by a few groups of friends in college, and spent a semester of college in Prague, where I was hated and actually taunted by the people in my program.

Another big problem is that I am fat and ugly (this is not just my opinion — I am a size 16 and have bad acne). A few years ago, I overheard one of my two best friends saying that I was “socially awkward” which is why she never introduced me to her friends from college, who are “cool” — I guess she was embarrassed by me. So, when I meet new people, I go in knowing that I am socially awkward, ugly, and destined to be dumped by them. I tend to then withdraw after the initial meeting, kind of as a preemptive strike, although it is not like people are ever calling me and asking me to do stuff. I have no idea how to fix this and start making friends, but I am sick of being an involuntary loner.

I have also never dated anyone. I have never been asked out, and I have never been kissed. As far as I know, not a single guy has ever been interested in me. As a result, I have become nervous around guys because I am so embarrassed by how inexperienced I am. I try to flirt and look pretty when I go out to clubs and bars, and I tried to flirt with some guys in college, but nothing ever comes of it. I have become very sexually frustrated, and a little bit desperate, but at the same time, I am REALLY afraid of being rejected by guys, and even more afraid of being dumped by any guy who would actually go out with me for a while. I just don’t think I could take getting my heart broken.

Basically, what it all boils down to, is that I have very low self-esteem, but it is based on reality — to not have low self-esteem would essentially be lying to myself. I was in therapy for six years with the same therapist to deal with a lot of the issues that I have, and it helped me out, but my therapist dumped me with no warning and no explanation four years ago. I have tried to go back into therapy, but I have not been able to find another therapist that I like, and I no longer trust that therapy will help me. I am, however, still on antidepressants.

So, my question is, how can I be happy once I move to NYC? I keep trying to run away from my problems, but that clearly does not work. I need to figure out how to fix them, but I have absolutely no idea how.

Thank you so much,
Hopefully Not On The Road To Becoming An Unhappy Spinster


Dear Unhappy,

You need to get back into therapy, and happily for you New York City is practically the therapist capital of the world, so that will bump up your chances of finding a therapist who works for you.But you need to do it sooner rather than later, because your low self-esteem is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, a thing you hold onto because it does something for you, protects you from something, and leaves you living in the future instead of being able to enjoy the present.

I’ve both been there and done that, but the good news is that, when you find a good counselor, you can start doing some of the (hard, unfun) work you need to to get happier — and that, when you’re always thinking about your next move and how it’s got to be better than what’s going on now, well, it’s not an easy way to live, but it means you haven’t lost hope.That’s a big thing.You want to break free of this stuff; you want to join your life full-time.That’s the hardest item on the list and you’ve already checked it off.

Hang in there.It takes some of us longer than others to get it fully in gear.Just keep believing that you will and aiming towards that.


Sars,

I am a devoted Vine reader, and I couldn’t help but notice that your
(fantastic) advice all-too-frequently boils down to “Talk to the person.
Communicate with one another,” and this is certainly great advice.But…

Where would you draw the line?Because I’m sure that we’ve all heard
that too much honesty is a bad thing.Is there any kind of a test for
deciding when you really shouldn’t share your feelings/confront someone? I
mean, there must be a few cases in which I really shouldn’t tell the guy that
I’m attracted to him, right?Or I really don’t need to tell my friend about
how I’m jealous about her success, et cetera.Please, justify my decisions to stay
quiet, even if only occasionally!

Sincerely,
Devotée


Dear Dev,

I think you have to do a cost/benefit analysis — what speaking forthrightly gains you, versus what havoc it might wreak — and I also think that a lot of Vine petitioners don’t really do it correctly.They don’t look at the aggro that keeping silent on the issue, whatever it is, is causing them; they don’t see that a moment of straightforwardness will save a lot of trouble, and it’s situations like that where I tend to recommend that they just say it, or discuss it, or whatever.

But certainly there are situations in which it’s not to your benefit to speak your mind.Got a crush on your friend’s boyfriend?Not worth it to say so.Think your boss’s wife is a dolt?Not worth giving voice to that.Your best friend’s job makes you weep with envy?Well, that one you can mention, but in a “70K a year?I’m so jell, that’s awesome!” way.

And then of course there’s the mother of all truth-telling cost-benefit analysis conundra, telling another person you don’t love him/her anymore.Usually, you don’t want any part of that, but sometimes, you’ve got to do it — you’ve got to dash the girl’s hopes so she can be devastated and then get past it.

My answer is, then, “It depends,” but the larger point is that I think a lot of people think that it depends on the wrong things, like making nice, and don’t see that, often, it’s nicer just to tell the truth and give the other person or people a chance to deal with it.


Hey there, Sars:

I think I have a Vine-worthy problem here, though
it hasn’t a thing to do with etiquette or grammar
or my personal life. It has to do with people
being sort of shifty and my very small business,
which currently manufactures buttons.

I hang out a bit on the web and post some of my
artwork to a popular and reasonably well-known
web gallery. It’s sort of expected that people
talk to you on said website, and one day, someone
interesting stopped by and started a
conversation. Let’s call the person “Fish,” because
it has nothing in common with their name. Fish
hasn’t yet tripped my Stalker Alarms, which are
keyed pretty highly to everyone from the
internet, but here’s the thing: Fish is being
pretty into my company. In an
I-Can-Do-Things-For-You way. Fish comes
pre-equipped with a sob story about being old and
unemployed and things, but interested in building
networks of people.

Fish also appears to have too much in common with
me. Mostly just over the line of too much in
common, but…things like attitudes towards
morality in business, weird internet Drama In The
Past, that sort of thing. I know this is info
about me available on the net, but Fish would
have had to have read about 100 entries in a
LiveJournal to get to them. That seems like
rather a lot.

Fish is a very, very unclear correspondant,
lacing all communications with artsy wordplay,
rather than direct purpose. I am having trouble
discerning what Fish is after, but I think it’s a
job, or money, or something, in exchange for
vague and undefined work for my company, which is
flea-sized.

I’ve dealt with a few…internet followers, I
guess, not precisely stalkers, before, but as I
said, Fish isn’t tripping alarms…just yet.
Barely.

My question is this (and I apologize if my
problem description has been leading): Am I right
to be suspicious of Fish, Fish’s motives, Fish’s
actual circumstances and basically everything?
And if I am, is the correct course to simply cut
contact and refuse to respond to notes, et cetera?

I sign myself:
Something Fishy, But Not In Denmark


Dear Den,

I couldn’t begin to say.”Suspicion” seems a little bit strong, reaction-wise; I’d probably go with “irritated,” and I think you have to go with the simplest explanation here, which is that Fish is not optimally socialized, or well-versed in how to make contacts smoothly.

If you want to cut contact, cut it; if Fish does come out and ask you for something, turn it down politely if you like.You can also probably get by with delayed, but cheery, one-line responses that reveal nothing.But again, it’s sort of a leap from “annoying” to “stalker,” so why not just deal with Fish on the basis of “annoying” — or, more to the point, not deal with Fish on that basis?

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