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The Vine

The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: March 4, 2005

Submitted by on March 4, 2005 – 11:09 AMNo Comment

Hey Sars!

Sometimes I wish your site wasn’t so brilliant because
I waste so much time on it…

A couple of grammar
questions for you: I know the rules for “who”/”whom” (“who”
is a subject, “whom” an object, not that I still don’t
get them wrong all the time) but “whom” sounds so
antiquated and pretentious when I use it…I don’t
really see it in print that much any more anyway,
except, of course, in the phrase “to whom it may
concern.” Is it okay not to use it? My writing feels
really stilted when I do.

Also, commas: I used to
over-punctuate and now I think I under-punctuate a
bit, though I do know the technical rules (for the
most part) on how to use them, so my question is more
language-is-free-like-a-butterfly (hee). If you want
to take a dramatic pause for effect, is it okay to use
a comma even when it’s grammatically taboo? For
example, in the complex sentence “The light went out,
and then flickered back on” is it okay to have a comma
between “out” and “and”? Similarly, if you’re listing
things with conjunctions such as “her eyes were green,
and gray, and gold” is it okay to have commas before
the conjuctions (like so) for the effect, even though
it’s grammatically incorrect?

Thanks and sorry so long,
Grammar Amateur

Dear Grammateur,

Just a quick note here, for the continuing good of my eyeballs: the word is spelled “GRAMMAR,” folks. Two As. Kelsey GrammEr; English grammAr. Okay? Thanks.

Now to your questions. I find that “whom” is overused, actually, in the same fashion that people say things like “it’s between he and I” — it’s an overcorrection based on their parents and teachers correcting them endlessly as kids not to start sentences with “me and Sharon went to the blah blah” while not explaining why it’s wrong.

With that said, if it’s called for, you do still need to use “whom” so as not to appear ig’nant. “Whom” is, as you say, used as an object — of a verb, a preposition, or an infinitive. You do have to take a moment and think about whether it’s called for; the “whom” mistake I see most frequently is an overcorrection in appositive clauses, like so: “Wing Chun, whom I knew would like that movie, is pretty.” This is incorrect; Wing is the subject of the clause, and therefore “who” is correct, not “whom.”

Another “who”/”whom” pitfall: linking verbs. When using linking verbs, “who”/”whom” follows the same rule as “I”/”me” — we don’t write “whom it is” for the same reason we don’t write “it is me” (“who it is” and “it is I” are correct). Linking verbs take a nominative.

This makes it sound much more complicated than it actually is in practice — an unfortunate aspect of usage terminology is that it’s kind of exclusive, which leads to accusations of snobbery and puts people off examining the language, and that’s a pity. In any case, your instincts regarding the usage are correct, but you can’t just opt out of following the rule. Take an extra second, decide whether you need a subject or an object, and apply the correct pronoun.

And now, commas. Neither example you cite is incorrect. You’re supposed to use commas to separate independent clauses, so the first sentence is fine; in the second sentence, it’s pretty much to your taste. Problems only arise when people use commas to provide dialogue emphasis when usage dictates that no comma belongs there, and in more colloquial or creative work, that’s fine, but it’s not strictly correct.

Dear Sars,

How would you, o grammar guru, punctuate the following sentence?

In denying the State’s request to use the testimony of Teresa Bean as an exception to Rule 404, the Court does not have to consider the proffers of the Defendant — that his act with Ms. Bean was consensual, that she suffers from depression or any other mental problems, or that she made up the story as an explanation to her boyfriend of the relationship between her and the Defendant.

I say there needs to be something (maybe not a dash, like I used, but something) after the first “Defendant” or it reads funny. His Honor disagreed. Can you break the tie?

L.G.

Dear L.,

I agree with you. I don’t think it’s incorrect without a punctuation mark there, but as I’ve said before, rules of grammar exist for the sake of clarity, and a dash or a colon after “Defendant” signals more clearly that a complex list is about to begin.

If His Honor insists on no punctuation there, lobby for semicolons instead of colons to split up the list items; a semicolon is a bigger pause than a comma and separates the list items more emphatically.

“Farther” or “further”? Is there a difference? If so, when do you use which?

Signed,
Just when I got “lay” vs “lie” figured out

Dear Heh, You Said “Lay,”

Ladies and germs, I believe we have a new record for the shortest Vine letter ever. I don’t think I’ll ever see a shorter one, actually, unless someone just writes to me all, “Help!” and doesn’t sign it.

Anyhoodle: I seem to recall that there’s a rule, exceedingly picayune in nature, that distinguishes between the two words, with one word referring to physical distance and the other a more metaphorical measure of elapsed space and/or time. Let’s see if I’m right…

Mostly. The 11C’s usage note under “farther” remarks that the two “have been used more or less interchangeably throughout most of their history, but currently they are showing signs of diverging. … [W]here there is no notion of distance, further is used…. Further is also used as a sentence modifier [i.e. “further, the participants felt that”]…but farther is not. … Farther is taking over the meaning of distance…and further the meaning of addition.”

But if someone asks which red car is yours and you reply, “The further one,” I don’t think that’s wrong; you just don’t use the word “farthermore” because, you know, it doesn’t exist. In other words, there’s no real need to remember the distinction because it’s already built into the language.

Garner is a little firmer on the distinction — “[i]n the best usage, farther refers to physical distances, further to figurative [ones]” — but I wouldn’t be that strict about it. Again, the language sort of chooses the right one for you.

Hi Sars:

My father forwarded me this quote:

“According to Heather Clipings, E. lusitanica should be destroyed when it is encountered.”

He felt that having two separate nouns in italics looked odd, and wondered if there was a clearer way to demarcate the name of the journal and the name of the species. Any ideas? I know the name of a publication should always be italicized, as with the scientific species name; is there any leeway to these rules?

Thanks, and love the column,
This Is Why I Don’t Edit Scientific Journals

Dear I Feel You,

It does look odd, but there isn’t really any leeway to the rule aside from a consistent editorial decision to put journal names in quotation marks instead of in italics (The New Yorker still follows that style). Failing that, just invert the sentence so the italicized phrases aren’t next to each other: “E. lusitanica should be destroyed when it is encountered, as per Heather Clipings.” That phrasing is inelegant, but if it’s really maddening to the reader to have the italicized phrases adjacent to one another, it’s the only real solution.

Here’s another one for the Grammar Queen. A grammar
debate ensued in
our office over the following:

If you were to say “…Sally, my wife’s sister…”
and then wanted to
refer to Sally again, which would be the correct way
to reference her?
“Sally, said wife’s sister” or “Sally, my wife’s
said sister?”

We work in a law firm so we get the formal language
going with “said
person” or “said documents” and so forth, but I’m in
litigation and we
mostly use “plaintiff” and “defendant” when
referencing people in a
document. The estate group doesn’t have that luxury,
so they’re
wondering how to phrase such a thing.

I think it should be “said sister” and not “said
wife’s sister” because
Sally is the topic of the sentence and Sally is the
sister, regardless
of who she is related to.

(Or should that have been “whom?” I get paranoid
about grammar whenever
I write to you!)

A

Dear A,

Yes, it should have been “whom.” See above; it’s the object of a preposition.

“Said sister” is closer in meaning to what you want, but “my wife’s said sister” is really clunky…although that’s just the way with legal documents sometimes, that euphony is sacrificed to explication.

You can probably get around it in this case with a well-placed “hereafter ‘sister-in-law,'” and then just say “said sister-in-law,” which, because it’s a hyphenate, acts as a single word and therefore can’t put you in the position of mixing the modifier.

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