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The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: October 22, 2003

Submitted by on October 22, 2003 – 10:32 PMNo Comment

Hi Sars,

I need your perspective on this zinger because you get
so many questions, and probably a zillion of them are
just like this.

Two men. One is the long-time boyfriend, who is the
most caring, considerate fun person. And a genius
slacker with no ambition, motivation, drive for career
(“I’m 26, who says I need to find my career just
yet”). We are best friends, completely, and despite
frustrations from both families and complaints about his
lack of drive, I can deal. I make money, he doesn’t,
that’s how it goes. But there is little passion, which
I am not sure I am supposed to deal with at mid-twenties.

The other is a guy with whom I went to college, and
always had a crush on. We had a tremendous fling while I was
on hiatus from boyfriend. He is successful and REALLY
into work. It could be good or bad, I guess, since I’m
not used to that trait. I find him very interesting,
and he’s a good person, too. Can’t stop thinking about
him and considering a relationship.

If the other were not around, each of these men would
have my complete attention. Seriously.

I know I am supposed to look inward and evaluate my
priorities and decide what’s important. I have been,
for a while, and I’m not sure.What I ask of you: In
this typical situation, is there a direction that is
more likely to work out? Can people work in a
passionless relationship in the long run?

Thanks for any insights you have,
I’m a Pop Song


Dear Pop,

It’s not a good idea to make decisions about where one person fits into your life by comparing him/her to another person.Every rule has its exceptions, of course, but in the case of Boyfriend, you have to decide where he fits into your life based on himself, not on his not-Crush-ness, if that makes any sense.

To answer your actual questions, no, I can’t quote you statistics on how these choices tend to work out a year or five years down the road, and yes, people can work in a passionless relationship.People do it all the time.I wouldn’t advise it, because it feels a lot like giving up to me, but it’s perfectly doable.

I think what you want me to tell you is whether you can count on Crush, or someone like Crush, making you happy if you break it off with Boyfriend, and I can’t do that.I can tell you that, if you don’t acknowledge that your relationship with Boyfriend is yawing into sibling territory, you’ll spend a lot of time wondering how things might have gone if you had asked for more — if you had assumed that you deserved better, and gone out to get it.

But if you do split up with Boyfriend, do it because he’s not right for you, not because you think Crush is right-er.That way madness lies.


Hey Sars,

I am in student loan hell, and I need some advice, because suicide is starting
to look like a good way out.

Some of my student loans went into default
some years ago.I don’t feel guilty about it, because at the time I stopped
making payments, my husband and I were living in different cities trying to
start our careers and I was close to destitute.I never knew when my
utilities would be cut off, and the staples of my diet were a) Grape Nuts
microwaved with powdered milk; b) a vegetarian paté of sunflower seeds and
split peas that I’ll never be able to eat again; and c) whole-wheat bread I
made myself, of which I would eat about a loaf every other day.I accepted
that all sorts of interest and fees were being tacked on to the principal of
my loans, and made plans to start repaying them as soon as I could.
Eventually I got a new job and called up the holders of my loans to make
amends.Most of the loan holders made repayment arrangements without
further ado, except for one loan that had just been handed six days before —
lucky me — to a collection agency I’ll call Scum, Inc.

Scum, Inc. wanted me to consolidate my loan with their firm to get it out of
default.I refused, knowing that if I did that I might as well sign over my
first-born child.They in turn refused to discuss any other repayment
arrangement, except to quote an astronomical monthly payment, twice what I
could afford according to the monthly income info I had just given them
(duh).Everything I had read on the U.S. Department of Ed website indicated that
it would be a routine procedure to set up rehabilitation on my loan (whereby
you make payments of at least 1.5% of the loan principal on a regular basis
for a year, at the end of which the default is erased from your credit
record).But Scum Inc. spent a lot of time jerking me around, telling me my
loan was coded in such a way that it could never be rehabilitated.

I wasted
a lot of time on the phone with the Dept. of Ed, which confirmed that there
was no reason why my loan could not be rehabilitated but refused to deal
directly with me, saying only Scum Inc. could make arrangements.Finally, in
disgust (and based on bad advice from someone at the Dept. of Ed), I wrote a
letter to the Department saying, “Scum Inc. is jerking me around and refuses
to set up a repayment arrangement, so here is my own arrangement.I will be
sending you X amount (X = 1.7% of the principal) to be mailed by the 5th of
every month.”I proceeded to follow this repayment plan for a year.At the
end of the year I got a letter from Scum Inc. quoting me ABOUT THE SAME LOAN
BALANCE AS THE YEAR BEFORE, even though I had made several thousand dollars’
worth of payments.It turns out that they had been skimming bogus late fees
and other fees off my payments.

Did I mention that I work hard all day and that, when I get home, spending
hours on the phone being bullied by Scum is very low on my list of
priorities?I tried calling the Dept. of Ed, who again refused to deal with
me.I asked them to send me a complete account history and a complaint
form, but said documents have never arrived (it’s been three months).I
tried to get a lawyer to help me with this — I would be glad to pay the
going rate — but the woman I talked to told me basically to piss off (I was
referred to her by my local bar association, but I think she might have been
someone who generally works on the collections side of student loans, because
she was a real bitch to me).

While I wait for the complaint form, I’ve
stopped making payments because I work hard, I live from paycheck to
paycheck, and I’m damned if I’ll contribute to some rich creep’s retirement
fund with the bogus late fees that are being skimmed from my payments.My
credit rating and my husband’s are in the toilet for past misdeeds, so
there’s nothing to ruin.The payments I was making are more than they can
legally get (as a percentage of my income) by taking me to court.I am so
angry, I feel like running a lawnmower over somebody’s head, and I know
that’s not a healthy way to feel.I haven’t spoken with the collection
agency or the Dept. of Ed recently because I am so angry I am afraid I will
either cry or make some insane threat, neither of which will help my case.

Just to recap: I accept the fact that I have mismanaged my way into a
student loan debt equal to the down payment on a house.I am ready and
willing to repay the debt, only I am in no mood to be jerked around.
Because student loans aren’t covered by bankruptcy, the only way the loan
can be discharged is if I die.I am seriously considering that way out.I
have been thinking longingly of suicide for years, and this just might be the
clincher.The only thing that’s holding me back is that I love my husband
and don’t want to hurt his feelings, but, you know, some days I get irked at
him.I’d be grateful for any advice.

Stuck in a Kafka Novel — or Would That Be Upton Sinclair?


Dear Wurtzel,

Do you think it’s funny to joke about killing yourself to get out of a problem you brought on yourself?’Cause it ain’t, and if you aren’t joking, you need counseling, both credit and emotional.

Student-loan debt is a nightmare, no question, but I feel like you don’t really understand what a loan involves.At the risk of stating the obvious, loans have terms, and “your convenience” is generally not one of them.”But I didn’t have the money!”Well, then you should have made arrangements to get it — taken a better-paying job, or a second one, because when you took the loan, you took it with the understanding that the privilege of using money not your own would come at a price later.Did you really think you could pay whenever you got around to it?I know it’s hard when you don’t make much money coming out of school, but…you know that’s an issue going in when you take a loan.Repayment isn’t at your leisure.

But you just stopped paying, and when that non-sensible strategy worsened the situation, you stopped paying again, and it just doesn’t work like that.I don’t see a sincere effort on your part to get the problem cleared up, based on what you’ve told me.Okay, the DoE didn’t send the forms for three months.Did you call them back?Ask them to fax the forms?Ask to speak to a supervisor?Okay, you ran across an unhelpful lawyer.Why didn’t you call another one?Do you only have one lawyer where you live?

You seem to think that, because it’s “unfair,” you don’t have to deal with it if you don’t want to, but you gave up the right to dictate the terms, at all, when you defaulted the first time; it’s not a huge surprise that your little announcement that you’d made your own arrangements didn’t work out.It sucks, but that’s how these things work.Living on Ramen and using only 40-watt bulbs sucks too, but when you take a loan, you recognize that you might have to do that to get it repaid.

It’s time to suck it up.You have no choice.Sit down at your desk, put one of those squeezy-ball things next to you, and call the DoE.Explain your dilemma, nicely and completely, as many times as it takes.Go ahead and cry if you feel the need, but stay polite, and if someone is giving you shit, squeeze the squeezy-ball thing and ask, politely, to speak to a department head.Double-check.Follow up.Do the same thing with Scum, Inc.Find out who your account manager is.Talk to him or her.Get a balance sheet with an authorized signature on it.Look in the Yellow Pages for a non-profit credit counseling service.At the very least, they’ve seen your problem before and can give you some shortcuts through the bureaucracy; get some help.Get another job and start digging yourself out of this hole.Do whatever it takes.You have no choice.

I know it’s daunting.I know the government doesn’t make it easy.But you took the loan; you must pay it back.If you don’t, Scum Inc. is going to be the least of your worries.


Dear Sars,

Here’s my problem. A very good friend of mine (we’ve been friends for about eight years) has been going through a lot of personal problems for about a year, and now I feel like I’m out of ideas on how to support her or remain a good friend. She’s always been a terrific friend, but I am certain, as someone who’s been diagnosed and treated with depression, that she is clinically depressed.

Even though she’s amazingly talented (she’s an opera singer), she’s always been insecure and we’re always constantly trying to encourage and support her emotionally. We’re sure it all started last year when she finally made the decision to move out of her parents’ house (her father is a verbally abusive tyrant and she doesn’t get along with her mother either). We all pitched in to help her move (we dubbed the incident “Operation Emancipation”), to stand up to her father, and to find her a job. We anticipated that she would be emotionally tender and made every effort to keep her spirits up, generally going out of our way to hang out with her as often as possible.

Nonetheless, she’s made comments to one or another of us that we don’t include her in our outings, or that we don’t consider her as good of a friend as she used to think. If one of us makes one-on-one plans with her, and she, in a conversation with another of us, lets it “slip,” she apologizes and says she feels “bad” about it. If I’m dating someone, she tends to make particularly pointed jokes about our relationship. One time a bunch of us were watching a movie at her place and my boyfriend and I weren’t even doing anything remotely like a PDA (he was annoyingly tickling my arm) and she declared that she was “grossed out” — not just then, but also announced it to some of her other friends the next day. She’s also been very sensitive, and we’ve had to watch our casual joking and joshing more than usual after she, out of the blue, called one of us “malicious” and “hurtful.”

She’s been struggling academically all year due to her depression (all of her friends have touched upon this subject, and I know I’m not the only one who’s tried to sit her down and seriously discuss seeing some sort of counsellor), and now she’s forced to leave the university because of her low grades. Her former and only employment was as an infrequent librarian at the school, and she’s been living off her savings. She frequently complains about being broke, but she doesn’t curb her shopping habits. I suspected that she lacks the motivation to throw herself into an earnest job hunt (she only applied to two places), and I compiled a stack of appropriate job listings and highlighted them for her. As far as I know, she hasn’t applied to any of them, and I suspect she hasn’t even read through them. When I asked her about her job search, she says she’s “holding out” for one of the two jobs she previously applied for. She’s now in a bad situation with her landlady and is looking for another place to move to. She thought about applying to some local colleges and exploring her options, and we looked into programs for her. She was interested in an arts administration program that we encouraged her to apply to…and then she decided she didn’t like the people there.

When we talk to her about the positive aspects of her taking a year off from school (she was feeling stifled by the rigidity of her program anyways, and she could get work experience while earning money), or moving to an area of town where rent’s more affordable and closer to the rest of us (she’s currently living in one of the most expensive areas in the city), or seeing a therapist, she dismisses all of this with lame excuses. If one of us tries to “push” any of these subjects a bit further, she gets defensive. Generally, we’re all very concerned about her, as she’s a smart, funny, and multi-talented person who now has bitter outbursts about being “fat and ugly,” lacks motivation, is unreceptive to any advice, and someone whom we all have to walk on eggshells around (geez, is that even grammatically correct?). I’ve talked to her about how glad I was when, several years ago, I made the decision to get professional help, but she doesn’t see it as anything applicable to her.

How do I remain a good and supportive friend when I fear her going further downhill?

Sorry for the long letter but awaiting your awesome advice (and thanks in advance),

At A Loss


Dear Loss,

All of you need to take a biiiig step back and start setting boundaries here.You do everything for her and expect nothing in return, and not only is it not healthy, it isn’t working in the first place.Supportive is great, but — circling job listings for her?Do you cut her food into bite-sized pieces, too?She’s not a child.Stop treating her like one.

And that means calling her on her behavior now and then — not in a mean way, but pointing out that you don’t appreciate the bitter remarks, or that she’s oversensitive and it exhausts you to have to watch what you say and do all the time.She does sound clinically depressed to me, and you do have to make certain allowances for the self-absorption that goes with that, because she’s frustrating, but she’s also miserable.The thing is, her behavior still has consequences, and you don’t do her any favors, really, by trying to save her from herself all the time.She’s having trouble coping, and it’s good of you to sympathize and want to help, but she’s going to have to learn how to cope herself eventually — with her background, with the school situation, with the money situation, with whatever comes up.

You don’t have to shrug, “Sink or swim — best of luck,” and turn your back on her.Do let her know that, if she ever needs to talk, or to ask for advice, she can call or come over any time.Make yourself available — but set limits.Stop letting her make you feel guilty, stop handling her with kid gloves, and stop doing things for her that she should do for herself.


Dear Sars —

See, here’s my dilemma.There’s this guy who
likes me, and he wants us to get together.He’s not
quite my type.On the other hand, the fact that
I’ve had plenty of flirting and crushes, but no
serious relationships, may suggest that that’s a good
thing.

I mean, the type of guys I usually fall for are
usually the older and (at least emotionally)
unavailable, very witty, charming ones, but they
always turn out to be insecure, emotionally immature
game-players, and they wind up breaking my heart.
He’s so normal, so stable, so age-appropriate.
That’s good for me, right?

But then again, I want
flirtatious banter.There’s nothing like it.Is
simple caring and good communication really any
substitute for dark undertones and clever
conversation?I mean, he’s sweet and goofy, but he
isn’t particularly verbal.Not one for fine shades
of meaning. Now I realize that 95 percent of the world, not
having wasted their time and money on an MA in
English Literature, will not get most of my obscure
references.And when it comes right down to it I
want a boyfriend, not a comedy partner or a snappy
dialogue machine. And the thing is, he’s such a
mensch.He says he’ll do something, it’s as good as
done.

So I
was wondering, how important is a razor-sharp wit
anyway?I can always go see a Tom Stoppard play.

My second issue is that, coming from an absolute
WASP’s nest of a family, I tend to place a higher
attractiveness quotient on anyone, well, non-WASP.
Accent? Check.Jewish? Check.Polish? Pakistani?
Puerto Rican? Check, check, check.Exoticize much?
Check.This guy is just another Christian from North
Carolina, and somehow I associate that with all things
backyard barbecue, all things white and bland.I know
I’m labeling him, and it makes me just as bigoted as
my grandparents, only backwards, but tell that to my
hormones.They wiggle happily when he’s nearby, but
they don’t exactly start breakdancing.

So what exactly is my dilemma?Well, it’s just
that I know he really likes me, and I don’t want to
hurt him.I’m not sure how I feel about him, or
rather, how much stronger my feelings are likely to
get.My brain is telling my that the only way to
find out is to date him and FIND OUT, dammit, but I’m
scared of that.Maybe I’m just scared of normal
relationships, as evidenced by my typically poor
judgment in the past.Something like Groucho Marx — I wouldn’t date anybody who’d have me for a
girlfriend. I thought I was getting over that, and yet
as soon as Mr. Normal comes along I’m right back to
it.Or maybe I’m just trying to force chemistry into
a situation that only sounds good on paper, and I
should tell him thanks but no thanks.

So tell me, dear wise Sars, what should I do?I
don’t know you well enough to label you yet, but
you’re certainly witty and charming, and maybe you’ve
dealt with this kind of thing before.Should I get me
to a nunnery until my head is on straight?Wait for
someone who sends me head over heels?Someone who’s
just like this guy — only also clever and mordant and
not quite so good for me?Or just shut the hell up
and date him already?

Too Clever For My Own Good?


Dear Clever,

Don’t get ahead of yourself with the hurting-him business.Are you attracted to him?Then start dating him and see how it goes.Nobody’s asking for a notarized document swearing that it’ll work out; if it’s not your thing, break it off.He’s a big boy.He’ll live.

If you’re not attracted to him, then don’t date him, but don’t overthink yourself into a corner with all that stuff about types and wit and whatnot.Either you dig his chili or you don’t, and if you do, you shouldn’t talk yourself out of it.


I am writing to you in the desperate hope that you or anyone you know has ever experienced sciatica. From the little I understand, it is a major nerve that starts at the lumbar spine below the end of the spinal cord and runs through your butt to the bottom of your foot.
For reasons known only to itself, it can cause pain, the equivalent of attempting to give birth through the bottom of your foot, huge never-ending charlie horse cramps followed with a burning line of fire.

I diligently went to my doctor, who sympathized and gave me prescriptions for incredibly expensive anti-inflammatories and narcotics and told me to stop sitting down. Unfortunately this failed miserably, so he then he gave me more prescriptions that my family states causes me to drool and to fall asleep in mid-sentence. I went to the emergency room of a large teaching hospital, which also has the benefit of being my employer (I am a critical-care RN, though unfortunately I specialize in open heart surgery and all other medical conditions are a complete mystery to me). The ER doc gave me lots of morphine and an MRI, and let me know that I may have a disc that is upsetting the nerve and that surgery might be helpful.

What I need to know is how is this ambiguous statement supposed to be interpreted — have you or any of your readers had any success with conservative treatment, or am I doomed to allowing some guy I have met once digging around my insides with a very sharp knife?

I have to admit to Googling sciatica until I reached the end of the internet, but it is all so incredibly impersonal and written in that special language doctors use when they are doing all they can to avoid being sued. I would greatly appreciate some personal help in ways to escape the pain and how successful surgery can be. I am a Canadian and we are not the suing kind so I will not hold you liable unless you suggest the sacrifice of small mammals to strangely named deities.

Still drooling but hopeful


Dear Drool,

I have no idea.If the ER doctor suggested surgery, he should have also given you the names of a couple of specialists — did he do that?Did you follow up?Sciatica is a nerve issue, but you should consult a surgeon or two as well and see what they think.

Some people have had good luck with Eastern medicine (i.e. acupuncture); other people can get away with a fistful of Advil.Still others need to go under the knife, but I have no idea of the particulars of your case, and couldn’t advise you even if I did.Get the ER physician, or your regular GP, to refer you to a back specialist instead of an English major.

[10/22/03]

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