Sars! Queen of grammar!

Which is correct:
“On December 12, 1964, I was…”
or
“On December 12, 1964 I was…”

Please give references to prove the truth to the doubters.

Thanks!
Confused by Commas

Dear Get In Line,

I’ll cite sources in a sec, but it’s the first one.The “extra” comma, the one separating date and year, is what throws you off because it makes the sentence look hectic and over-punctuated, but if you replace that entire date phrase with a day of the week, like “Tuesday,” it makes the function/necessity of the second comma clearer.

“…Henh?”Look: “Tuesday, I was…”You need that comma there.You also need a comma to punctuate a numerical date, which makes it look a little hectic when your date phrase is also a prepositional phrase that needs offsetting with a comma, but it is in fact correct.

My source, unsurprisingly, is Garner.He doesn’t address this sort of phrase specifically — but he does say that you may “unimpeachably” write “On 12 December 2003” instead.While it’s more common to British English and military use, it’s perfectly correct and allows you to avoid the commaplosion.

I have a white, textured Kenmore stove (one of those flat burner jobs) and I am adjusting (since I prefer to cook on gas) and here’s the thing…

It’s a self cleaning oven, but now the top of the door is getting all yellowed…do you have a suggestion as to how to get the yellow off, or how to prevent it?

I’ve tried everything, except for straight bleach (which the “oven care guide” says not to…)Baking soda paste?Vinegar soak?

The stove is only four years old…but it is starting to look like crap…

Any ideas?

D

Dear D,

Yeah, don’t use bleach.Those aren’t fumes you want around cooked food, I’m guessing.

I’m a little puzzled by which “top” you mean, but in any case, it’s probably the same atomized grease that tends to bunge up walls above the average stove.So, you’ll want a kitchen cleaner specially formulated to cut grease, but that’s also safe for stove use (generally, cleaning products will tell you what surfaces they’re good for right on the bottle).

I’ve had good luck with both very hot, soapy water and Mr. Clean anti-bacterial formula.The trick is to use one of those Scotch-brand scrubbing pads; regular sponges tend to just stir the grease around.Go over it once with the scrubbing pad to clear off the yellowy stuff; then go over it again with just a sponge to finish up.

Sars:

So, I have this boyfriend.He is a good man, sweet to me, caring in general and cute. We’ve been dating for about a year and a half.He keeps hinting around that he has bought a ring and is just waiting for the right time to propose.This is all good and well.Mostly.

Here is the thing.This guy, while definitively the most kind and genuine person I’ve ever dated (known?), is a little dull to talk with at times.I have experienced the reverse, which I know is no good — my ex-husband was brilliant but barely thawed emotionally. The boyfriend is able to cry, get honest, all that good emotional stuff.My close friends who know the boyfriend well all agree that he is the sweetest guy they’ve ever met.They’re my friends, though, and they are honest, and say things like, “But…is he smart enough for you?” (I confess to having Guggenheimy friends and being a little bit of a snob.)

I know this must sound retarded, that I’m feeling intellectually mismatched with someone, and unable myself to figure out whether or not this is a deal breaker.It does make me nuts sometimes, not being met in that way, or having to listen to him pontificate (he is a guy) on something he doesn’t quite get.Sometimes just talking about my day with him can be a pain in the butt.Very occasionally in social situations I’ve been a teensy bit embarrassed by his lack of sophistication.

So is this just something I should get over, and marry the guy?Or is something that I should realize is important to me, and hence, break things off?

I like the advice you give and I’m hoping you can lend a little fresh perspective to this situation.My friends are tired of talking in circles about the whole thing.

Thanks,
M

Dear M,

I had a whole three-paragraph rumination here about how important it is that your friends like your mate and vice versa, and you liking his friends, and blah dee blah, but I cut it, because here’s the thing.He’s got the ring already, and he’ll propose the minute you give him an opening, but your attitude is…kind of like mine when I try on a pair of pants, and it’s not the greatest fit, but they’re 50 percent off and I might lose five pounds so what the hell.You know?I mean, no guy is perfect, but this isn’t a “he’s not perfect” problem.This is a “you’re not psyched” problem.

I can’t speak to how boring is too boring to continue the relationship, but…if it’s important enough to you that it’s given you this much pause?Enough to write to an advice column, enough to not signal him that you’re ready to get engaged?Enough that he’s…coming off like a pair of on-sale pants in your letter?You’ll do what you think is best, but getting married is not a [shrug] situation where I come from.

Could you please help me with this question?Which of these sentences is correct, and why?

“Robert and I appreciate your visiting with us the other day.”

“Robert and I appreciate you visiting with us the other day.”

I am in a disagreement with my boss about his letter and I badly need to know the answer and can’t find any resource to point him to.(He doesn’t believe me or three others I’ve asked — I believe the first sentence is the correct one but I can’t remember HOW I know that.)

Thank you so much, enjoy your site a lot!

A.M.

Dear A,

I think it’s the first one too.When I’m editing, I don’t tend to change sentences written the second way, because I feel like there’s a comma implied after “you” and that makes it okay, but mostly it’s that I’m not entirely confident I should bother changing it.

The idea, I suspect, is that “your” is modifying “visiting,” but what exactly am I to look up in the Garner to see if that’s correct?Well, let’s try “modifiers.”

…No.Maybe “gerunds.”…No.Okay, “participles,” then.

…There’s no listing for participles?Crikey.Hmmm.Nothing under “you” or “your,” “adverbs” is no help, “adjectives” is no help…”concord”?Sure, let’s try “concord.”

…Gah!Okay…”possessives” has got to have something, this is stupid.

…Nothing.Nothing under “verbs,” either, or “verb phrases” (no entry), or “tenses.”

Jeez, Garner.Okay, well, I’m just going to go without the net here and declare that the first one is correct, for the following reason: “visiting” acts as a noun here, so if you swap out that noun for another, more traditional unverby noun like “kindness,” the first one works and the second one doesn’t.”We appreciate your kindness the other day” is correct; “we appreciate you kindness the other day” is not.

First person to track this shit down in the Garner and tell me where it is gets a TN sticker.”Do I still get the sticker if you’re wrong and you have to eat it?”Yes.

Hi Sars,

I’ve got a friendship quandary with a slight twist.

What do you do when the lives of two friends start substantially changing? My cousin and I have been very close friends (more like sisters) for nearly 20 years. We basically grew up together through our teens and twenties. We’ve lived in different states (about two hours’ drive) for the last several years, but that hasn’t noticeably affected our friendship. We’d see each other during the holidays, special occasions or for planned weekends, and we used to email fairly regularly.

But things are starting to change. My husband and I moved across the country, and she and her husband are going to have a baby. Initially, I wasn’t too worried about the move affecting our relationship, but I’ve noticed that we don’t talk often anymore. And now with the news of her pregnancy, I am worried that we are going to start drifting further apart as her life begins to take on a whole new focus.

My personal thing is that I don’t have kids, don’t really like kids, and doubt I’ll ever have kids. I basically have zero tolerance for them. I’ve had other friends who’ve become parents and it’s like they’ve turned into completely different people. All they want to talk about is their kids (or pregnancy) which I get, because it’s a huge deal for them and a huge change in their lives and of course they are excited to share these things. But it’s hard for me to remain engaged in conversation when all they want to talk about is their kids all the time. I have other interests, and I know they used to share similar interests — ostensibly that’s why we became friends in the first place. But how does one maintain a friendship when interests/life events truly begin to diverge?

I am scared to death that this is going to happen with my cousin and me. I will be interested to know how her pregnancy goes and will be interested in the progress of her child’s development, but not to the exclusion of all else. I fear “losing” her. She isn’t going to have the flexibility with time that she once did, and I guess I worry that it means she won’t have time for me anymore — and we’re already limited geographically as it is. I know that you’ve mentioned the friendship shelf life factor before, but I feel weird thinking of this friendship like that because we’re family too.

My immediate family has finally gotten to the point where the nieces and nephews are old enough to amuse themselves and leave the adults alone to catch up with one another when we have family gatherings. When they were younger, I felt really uncomfortable around them and annoyed that I could hardly talk to their parents (my sibs) without constant interruption. That’s usually when my cousin and I would go off and do our own thing, but now that she’s gonna be the one with the baby, it’s going to feel awkward.

And now for the questions: Am I a selfish bitch for worrying that she won’t have time for our friendship? Is it callous of me to not want to hear about her kids all of the time? Am I getting paranoid over a potential situation that has yet to pan out? Should I bring this up to her now or wait and see if it really gets as challenging as I think it might?

I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this topic.

Signed,
Losing another one to parenthood

Dear Losing,

Yeah, I think you’re getting ahead of yourself here.I also think you’re being inflexible.Not to the point where you’re a bitch, just…rigid about the parameters of the friendship.So, I think you need to chill and see how things shake out, and I think you need to rethink your attitude on friendship and parenting and how they fit together, because not all parents turn into these pod people who talk about nothing but strollers and weight percentiles and stuff.Yeah, you get a few who kind of disappear into the baby, but — you’re close with this woman for a reason.Why not trust that?

You can still be happy for and interested in all the baby stuff without wanting to do it yourself; it’s still possible to participate in the conversation, and if it’s stuck on diapers and getting boring, just change the subject.But before any of this becomes a real issue, think about whether you’re giving your friends who are parents, and their kids, a chance.You can’t just assume that all parents are drones or that all kids are smelly, interrupt-y little pests, because they aren’t and they aren’t, and you can’t make your cousin’s impending motherhood all about you, because it isn’t.Some things will change; change is not automatically a negative.Just go with the flow and keep an open mind.

[11/15/05]

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