Red Dawn
Hard to believe I’d never seen it before; my previous sense of it as The Outsiders Go All Mad Anthony Wayne On Soviet Invaders means I should have watched it a dozen times as a kid, but I just never got around to it.
It’s a strange movie, though, because in many ways, it’s very weak: it’s dated, of course; despite a running time near two hours, it under-explains the national situation re: the invasion, and the terms of the occupation, which change from scene to scene depending on who needs to have a weepy scene with a parent; the acting is across-the-board terrible.
In the company’s defense, the dialogue is difficult.It’s not bad; in fact, every time one character offers up a fortune-cookie platitude, another character comes back with an unexpected inversion of the exchange.When Erica is wailing about the Colonel dying and she announces melodramatically, “I’ll never love anybody again!”, Robert tells her, not unkindly, “If you didn’t love anybody you wouldn’t be here right now.”At times, it’s as if the script is acknowledging that, the particulars of the situation aside, these are still teenagers, who will still have the occasional bad-poetry outburst about their problems regardless of their relative severity.
But the script also leans on the dialogue to do work that most other movies would have shown us in dedicated scenes, and the choice is a good one in theory — we don’t need to see Darryl getting tortured so he turns on his fellow Wolverines; we saw his father considering selling him out earlier in the movie, plus we’ve seen that sort of scene a thousand times and if Darren Dalton is not going to do well with it, why put it on him.In practice, however, the unfortunate result — which we’ve also seen a thousand times — is a sob/scream-off between Patrick Swayze, Dalton, and Charlie Sheen in which nuance, not to mention any information the scene is trying to communicate, is drowned in a spring rain of spittle and throat polyps.
Good acting wouldn’t have made much difference, though, is the thing.Any dystopian story is basically an examination of how humans would behave in whatever set of depresso circumstances the author chooses; some authors will take more of an interest in the humans, others in the dystopia.Either is fine; this script wants to do the former, but then doesn’t do well at keeping us informed about the latter in a way that gives the former context, and then on top of that, the actors in charge of said context…well, imagine Black Hawk Down starring the cast of Saved by the Bell.Black Hawk Down isn’t really about quiet character moments, but imagine that movie if you hadn’t had anyone on screen who could give you one.It wouldn’t make the movie suck, but it wouldn’t work as well, either.
Red Dawn is uncompromising in surprising ways.Almost everyone dies.There is no frenching amongst the protagonists.It doesn’t over-explain, and while it errs too far in that direction in spots, I prefer that to the fifteen minutes of exposition a movie that gives me less credit would have subjected me to.
And it raises interesting questions, I’ll give it that: What would you do in the event of an all-points invasion on American soil?What would that look like the next day, or week, or four months later?It doesn’t go far enough in answering them, though.I almost never say this about older movies, and I don’t know how you’d re-cast the threat, because the Cold War was tailor-made for simplistic cinemoralizing, but maybe someone should try to remake it — reel the sweaty dialogue in a few feet, cast it with more competent teens, and take another run at it.The movie as is feels like two movies, which may have gotten stripped down to gunfire and traumatized grunts in order to get everything in, but if it’s redone, and the filmmakers think things through a bit better in the outlining phase, a remake could work.
Tags: C. Thomas Howell Charlie Sheen Darren Dalton John Milius Lea Thompson Mad Anthony Wayne movies Patrick Swayze
I remember seeing “Red Dawn” on the big screen with a friend of mine, and being very upset by it. (I was about 16 at the time, so.) Even then I knew that it was something of a cartoon, or was executed like one, but it bothered me anyway, probably because I was about the age of most of the characters. It’s tempting to say that RD is mere pro-American, anti-Soviet (or anti-Communist) propaganda, but that’s just stating the obvious, and doesn’t really constitute an indictment of the movie. At the time we were all still convinced that the Russians were in possession of some strategic or tactical advantage, and planned to use it any day now to wipe us out. Had the movie been a mere exercise in jingoism, I tend to think the teens–or at least some of them–would have survived to scream “WOOOOOOOLLLLLVERIIIIIIINES!” as they gunned down the entire Soviet military.
I get what you’re saying about the two movies joined at the hip, though. I just don’t know of any “more competent teens” in the business today. For the most part, teen acting = boobs and emo and screaming. I probably think that because I beta-tested dirt, but it’s just hard to think of anybody that age in the business besides Shia LaBeouf or Dakota Fanning, and never mind.
You’re in luck! There are plans afoot to remake this movie, with Carl Ellsworth writing the script and Dan Bradley directing. Does anyone have more information?
I saw probably the middle third of this movie on tv at the back of a pizza place last year – and having no idea what it was, my friend and I were, well, incredibly confused. “Is that…? What? Did he…? This is SO WEIRD.”
I tried watching this once about 2 years ago (or maybe less) and couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t get into it.
I have to say, the image of the cast of “Saved by the Bell” in “Black Hawk Down” is a pretty funny one.
“WOLVERINES!!!” Heh.
I saw this one when it first came out too, because of my teenage crushes on C. Thomas Howell and Charlie Sheen (I know…), and I remember being pretty bummed that everyone bit the dust. But then I saw it on cable a few years ago, and I was actually kind of impressed at that ending. Depressing, yes, but surprisingly realistic. It’s not a great movie, but it’s not as bad as I thought it was.
I bought this movie for my 12yo son at one of those $1.00 video sales the rental places were having, thinking it would be a thrilling, heroic, good-guys-win-in-the-end type movie. Yeah. Not so much. We were all a little depressed, although I was impressed that the movie stuck with such a downbeat ending.
Hmm. I could see Michael Cera and Ellen Page in a remake. How old is Joseph Mazzello these days? Someone could revive Jonathan Lipnicki’s career. I could not, however, see Haley Joel Osment. I don’t know why.
I remembering thinking the movie (seen well after the Soviet Union’s demise) was a bit overly simplistic- and the acting was pretty stiff. I was just surprised to see that Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey did a movie together before Dirty Dancing.
Silly question though: Why did Patrick take his brother to the swingset? Did they both die there, or was one of them taken away by the evil soviets? I was confused by that part.
My God, this is making me want to have a “Cold War Follies” film festival (this, WAR GAMES, ATOMIC CAFE, DR. STRANGELOVE, stuff like that) and relive the paranoia of my teen years.
I just watched this for the first time a few times ago. I saw the first half hour or so way back when in high school, but then we had to go, so I never saw the rest until now (hooray, dvr!). I have to say that I felt pretty much the same way. It was pretty pat & sort of derivative. But I guess you could say that about a lot of movies once they’re 20 years old. I did like that they didn’t have them defeat the soviets single-handedly & all. But I wish I had seen it when I was younger, b/c I probably would have enjoyed it more. Less eye-rolling at the bad dialogue & acting, etc. Heh, “Wolverines!”
I see this from time to time on AMC and it still has the power to upset me. I am also constantly thinking how it could never be made the same way today- the kids (esp. the girls, two actresses who I looooved back in the day, and still kind of do) are not super-awesomely babeish enough. The extent to which Jennifer Grey’s character is allowed to be totally wrecked by her whole experience (as opposed to perky and USA! USA!) is realistic and disturbing. Yeah, it’s all very 80s (in all the best and worst ways), but what I recall getting out of it at the time, and still today, is that in most conflicts the world over (U.S. soldiers included), the people doing the fighting tend to be about this age. Physically, adults, but emotionally still children. So, yeah, a bad movie, but still- it makes an impact. And it is committed to its brutal end.
Also, I am eternally impressed at how the movie acknowledges how freaking cold it would be out there in the snow. Everyone is bundled up within and inch of their lives. I am cold just thinking about it.
Dude. I didn’t know from bad acting when I was 16. I thought Tom Cruise was a viable heartthrob, that’s how bad off I was. From what y’all are describing, rewatching RD would probably make me cringe, just like the time I forced my husband to watch “East of Eden” to see the thespian greatness of James Dean and ended up almost weeping in shame at the rubberfaced wailing and running into walls and whatnot. He still won’t let me pick movies.
I saw this movie in its first run *at the drive-in,* which I suppose is like extra bonus points that totally date me. I mostly remember that it scared the crap out of me at the time, because I was convinced that the Soviet Menace was indeed coming for us, was imminent, and that me and the rest of the Washington Middle School “Junior” Huskies would not fare nearly so well as yon Wolverines.
Who, as it turns out, did not fare so well. I was rather shocked, stumbling across it decades later on cable, to find that it had the non-rah-rah downbeat ending everyone else is noting: the kids held out for a while, but only for so long. I don’t think you *could* remake it today and still kill so many corn-fed heartland teens. Which makes what you said, Carrie, about the wretched fact that yes, most wars ARE fought by people this age, are being fought by them right now…ten times more devastating.
Jaybird: “Teen actors=boobs and emo and screaming” =LMAO!
I too remember the downbeatness of every scene, and I’m still impressed by the very end when Jennifer Grey goes to the memorial rock, and her voiceover says “not many people come to the rock anymore, though I do.” Man, that’s the most realistic part of the film–make one spot a memorial and move the fuck on: America.
Man, this movie made a big impression on me back in the day. And by “impression”, I mean “Haunted My Dreams”. Seriously: how can you be thirteen years old, watch this movie, and NOT devise your own escape route into the mountains/hills/whatever local hidey-place?
” … a sob/scream-off between Patrick Swayze, Dalton, and Charlie Sheen in which nuance, not to mention any information the scene is trying to communicate, is drowned in a spring rain of spittle and throat polyps.
Hee! And ew.
well, imagine Black Hawk Down starring the cast of Saved by the Bell.
Hee. And also, somewhat inevitably, ew.
HA! I love this movie! I think I have to watch it every time it comes on AMC. It’s pretty cheesy, but suprisingly grim in spots. I can’t watch the scene where they realise that Darryl is the mole and um, deal with him. That’s pretty wrenching. And yeah, everyone IS belting it out for the cheap seats, but it’s not…unaffecting.
Plus, my friends and I text each other the weird code phrases all the time:
“The CHAIR is against the WALL.” “JOHN has a LONG MUSTACHE.”
Ha.
I, too, saw this as a young teenager, and I don’t think anyone seeing it outside that age or that decade can get the same impression. Even smart kids at that age had an “us” and “them” vision of the world, and it was brilliant having the opening invasion hit the familiar territory of a school.
The rest of it? Rehashes of a zillion WWII movies. The acting? Dubious. But the opening? Very, very scary.
@Kristin: Well, kids kind of are about belting it out for the cheap seats. I saw this movie a gazillion years ago – I think we rented a DVR to see this movie – that’s how long ago it was, and how broke we were. What really pissed me off about the reviews were the ones that said how “unrealistic” it was to have teenagers forming an armed rebellion. I read that and said, “Um, World War II, anybody? And, of course, in the time since the movie was made, we’ve all had the opportunity to learn about kids that age and younger fighting as soldiers.
@Linsay: Well, I couldn’t. Yeah, I had my escape kit, and did some preparation training, too.
I don’t think I want to see it again; I think I’d rather crank up Toy Soldiers, with an a-ma-zing-ly buff Sean Astin using his powers of rebellion against terrorists.
@Kim: Yeah, I don’t think you could kill off so many corn-fed teens nowa- Wait. Sure you could! It’s done in slasher flicks all the time! You’re lucky to get one pair – or even one kid – out alive. Corn-fed kids get mown down like corn in those movies! However, I agree with you; especially these days, I think people are going to want a more optimistic ending in a movie of this sort – and the fact that “we won in the end” is not optimism enough. I think the only way people would accept wholesale slaughter of The Good Guys would be if it was the remainder of the Wolverines. Yep, rake out the 50-to-70-year-olds! Old enough to know how to use the weaponry, and able to go out in a blaze of honour and commitment! Actually, the scary thing is it might work. I forsee the teenagers getting to do the Big-Screen Version, and the Silver Foxes get to do the small screen – I vote Sam Elliott for the lead!
@Kristin: HAAAA! My sister and I do that too. “Grandmamma is INCONTINENT.” “Luther’s BEARD is MISSING.”
Damn, now I really want to watch this movie. I have a weird fondness for cheesy 80s acting. Throw in a nearly all-dead cast and code phrases? I am SO there.
One might suggest that “Red Dawn” is indeed propaganda–of the pro-Soviet variety!
i.e. Here are some spunky, can-do, patriotic American teenagers, just like you. When the bad guys attack, they get right down to the business of fighting back. Despite the misery and hardship they never lose hope, and after a long struggle they FAIL and they ALL DIE. Now then. When the Russians invade, will you be like them? Or will you be smart?
Joe Mama – well, apparently somewhere else people were winning, or the memorial would be gravel in some Russian General’s formerly American driveway. So … yay, they kept the troops in that area occupied while people were succeeding elsewhere? It’s not much of a battle cry, but it sometimes is how wars are won. It’s just that the “winners” aren’t always there to see it.
I have to say, I think I’d prefer to see the movie that showed the home team winning, however. (Of course, I would have preferred it then, too. I’m pretty simplistic in my movie preferences: Good Guys Win, Bad Guys Lose. I don’t need more realistic endings in my movies; I have real life for that, and I don’t necessarily like it, either, hence: movie-watching.)
@Kim – re the return-and-out-inna-blaze-of-glory ancient Wolverines, I’d vote for Sam Elliott for the lead in damn near anything. And he already has the black&white hair and beard, and the seen-it-all steely eyes.
Saw this one soooo many times in the 80’s, and chuckle that it’s regarded worthy of being shown on American Movie Classics.
Yeah, the opening haunted me and impressed me at the same time. Of course, everyone would be watching out the window at a gun being set up, and when it sprays the window with bullets, of course it would hit the first one, who wouldn’t be able to get out of the way like the rest. At that moment, you kind of know that all bets are off. This is not your average teen movie anymore.
I’ll say this….when one of the guys says to one of the girls, around a campfire, “what’s up your butt?” or something like that, and she goes ballistic on him? Took me years to figure out why she was upset. What? I was like 13 when it came out, I didn’t know any better. At that point, I thought it was funny that Patrick Swayze was making someone pee in the radiator.
And John does have a long mustache.
I have seen this movie countless times. It is one that I will leave on if I find it on TV. Not because I like it, but because there is so much JUNK on TV, and I like to laugh at the bad acting. I was actually glad that it had a sad ending where most of the main characters died. Anything else would have been stupid – unless they got rescued by the military or something.
CORRECTION: It is not Jennifer Grey that does the narration at the end of the movie. It is Leah Thompson! Jennifer Grey’s character was killed – but she still took out a few bad guys even AFTER she was dead using a grenade. How cool is THAT?
I think the biggest thing that I hated about the movie was that it gave you no information about what was taking place outside of the little town where these characters were. The little amount of information provided by the shot-down jet pilot was lame. He could have told a better story.
One of the most memorable scenes: When C. Thomas Howell drinks the blood of a deer that he just shot! Swayze tells him that he has to do it as he is gutting the deer and filling a tin cup with the blood. C. Thomas Howell starts drinking the steamy cup (it is freezing outside during the scene). As he is drinking it, some starts to drip down his face, but then some CHUNKS start dripping down his face. You almost cannot watch it without making some type of exclamation.
I LOVED this movie as a teen. LOVED it. I saw it in the theater at least 4 times, and countless times on VHS and Beta. I remember being rather obsessed with Jennifer Grey’s character; I thought she was totally badass. And of course I thought Swayze was sex on legs.
Growing up in a very large city, one of the things that I remember standing out for me was the effect of the “war” on the small town. I just remember thinking how different it would be for me if that happened where I lived (I imagined it more like “Escape From NY” style).
Ahh, Red Dawn. I think almost everyone in my age group watched this movie when it first came out. Hubby and I recently caught a replay on AMC and I had forgotten just how sad the ending was. This movie made me love Jennifer Grey too and I was so excited a few years later when her and Patrick Swayze were “reunited” in Dirty Dancing. It was only years later that I found out that they hated eachother during the making of Red Dawn
I must admit that I’m a junkie for end of the world flics. Red Dawn, Jericho, The Matrix, the list keeps growing. What I’ve come to realize is how much your perspective changes as you add wrinkles and pounds. My father fought in both WWII and Korea and he didn’t remember that 6 year period of his life as one his children should know much about. If I you were given the choice of the red pill or the blue pill, take the blue one. I’m mad when there are more than 2 cars ahead of me in the McDonalds drive thru. If you want to remake the movie and make it current it as the trailer suggest in its post 9/11 teaser, it should start with a severe financial crisis. Follow that with the uncertainty of a stable supply of energy controlled by an enemy that wants to wipe your existent off the planet. Then have several of the largest and most powerful corporations go bankrupt. Make sure the integrity of the governments most secure information becomes compromised as a result of a communist states efforts. Them kick the whole thing off with an Israel air strike on an Islamic nation with nuclear weapons. I’m not sure where to take it from there, but that’s a great start on the road to WWIII. Wolverines, not sure what they taste like, but special sauce on a sesame seed bun is no longer an option. Sorry Neo, but prime rib dinner with by bud Agent Smith is by far the best choice.