The Vine: June 8, 2011
I’m having a bit of a sticky situation with my best friend and while it’s usually me giving the advice, I decided that maybe I needed another insight.
First off, I should establish that the best friend in question has a child — a beautiful baby girl named Ebony, my goddaughter. This child came as a result of a very, sticky, nasty relationship with a boy that I had warned my best friend about. I usually have a strict policy of “You can’t tell your mates who to date!” and while this got applied to this situation in particular, about a million times, the way my friend was endangering her own mental wellbeing was unacceptable — and she eventually pulled out, when she realized that yes, he was just using her for a “bit on the side” and no, he wasn’t going to break up with his girlfriend just to be with her — he wanted all of his cake, and to eat it too!
She was self-harming over this, and the emotional stress of it was insanely horrible — not to mention the potential physical dangers. She had unprotected sex with him, a lot. Without sexual health checkups or anything. As a result, she fell pregnant with Ebony.
I supported her through the pregnancy, since her “boyfriend” wanted nothing to do with the baby. There were high times, and low times, and the thing was, I thought Ebony would level her out. She did, but then enter some more irrational behaviour. Not soon after Ebs was born, she was back into having casual sex with this boy. “Why are you doing this?!” I’d ask in exasperation. “…Because it’s fun? Because I can?”
Yeah, well, he soon dropped her on her ass again — and guess who was there to pick her up. I mean, she’s my mate right? I have to be there for her. But events have come about to make me doubt this…
She’s a great mum, don’t get me wrong. But not only after she was finished with the original guy that got her knocked up, she decides to screw another bloke while she’s screwing him. This ended soon enough, when she decided “oh, let’s meet the best friend of Ebony’s dad, and screw his brains out to get back at him!” I was a bit apprehensive about it all…and was just like, “Oh well, J has a girlfriend. I’m not sure how you’re going to go with that… Eh, I’ll just ignore it.”
Nevertheless, J (who I now appreciate as a complete sleazeball) also enjoyed hitting on me before he got with his girlfriend. He even hit on me at a time when I was with him and my best friend had moved to the other room. I had to literally hit him to get him off me.
May I mention that this same “best friend” also invited me shopping, then convinced me to meet up with J, after which she took us both back to her house, and I had to lie on the bed ignoring them making out right beside me because…wait for it… “Oh, she doesn’t mind, she’s just happy to see me happy.”
Essentially, J used her like all the other men do (and with more unprotected sex besides) and I was the one that had to pick her back up, dust her off, and set her on her feet. (And try to persuade her to go and get a sexual health checkup.) AND NOW SHE GOES AND IS ALL FRIENDLY WITH EBONY’S DAD AGAIN?!
Quite frankly, I’ve had enough of my best mate. I love her to bits, but the only real reason I’m still there is for my goddaughter. What the hell am I doing? How the hell do I convince this girl to behave? What’s the go?! I don’t have enough time in the day for myself (I’m a first-year med student), let alone an emotionally needy friend who takes me for granted? But is she really taking me for granted, or am I just being overdramatic and jealous? Please, I’d love to hear your perspective.
Frustrated
Dear Frustrated,
“I love her to bits, but the only reason I’m still there is for my goddaughter.” No, you don’t, and no, it isn’t.
It doesn’t sound to me like you love your best friend at all, or have any fun hanging out with her; it doesn’t sound like much of a friendship at all. It sounds like a parenting-by-proxy thing: she screws up; you rescue her; you each resent the other on some level, you because she’s “always” screwing up and acting emotionally irresponsible, she because you judge and nag her. Presumably she has parents, and even if she doesn’t, it’s not your job to take over that role.
And if your friend is herself a good parent, then you don’t need to take over that role, do you? Not for your friend and not for Ebony? Yes, Friend should think about the example she’s setting for her daughter, and the risks she’s exposing herself to, but if Ebony is fed, clothed, on a routine, and not handed off to various friends and relatives while her mother chases unsuitable men all over town — and I assume you’d have mentioned it if any of Friend’s behavior sounded like a case for the children’s-services department — then it’s not about Ebony, and you can’t really get away with telling yourself it is.
You need to admit what it is about, namely that your friend’s low self-esteem and the resulting reckless carryings-on have gotten old. Admit that that has become the center of the friendship, dealing with Friend’s drama; admit that you have not set good boundaries yourself, that you have responsibility here. You “had to” lie on the bed while they made out? Come on. Ask them to stop. Go into the next room. Call a cab. Stop acting like a victim of her behavior when the only real victim is Friend herself. Stop spending time with J when you know he’s a creeper who doesn’t know what “no” means.
Look, I understand that behavior like that is exhausting, that you want to shake her and tell her to treat herself better — but 1) it’s less exhausting if you don’t take it personally, and don’t view it as a comment on whether she’s listening to you or doing what you say. She’s not you, and she’s not doing these things to you (and when she is, you allow it; see above). She’s her own person, and that person self-harms to deal with her anxiety and fear of abandonment; you can’t expect her to make the same choices you would if she’s operating from that place. You can’t expect obedience. She’s troubled. She makes poor choices that contribute to the cycle.
And that’s where 2) comes in — break your own cycle with it. If you can’t deal with it anymore, if you feel like your only role in her life is to help and rescue, start declining to do that. “I’m so sorry to hear that, but we’ll have to talk later; I have to get back to studying.” “That’s great — say hi to Ebony’s dad for me. I have to get to class.” You don’t have to act fake, but pull back a bit. Let her sink or swim on her own; she knows by now where to get tested for HIV or to get low-cost counseling. She also knows, in her heart, what these guys are about. But you cannot make her do anything, and by continuing to try, you contribute to the childish rebellion dynamic she’s creating.
Cool it down. Act like a friend, not a warden. Express concern, not judgment; decline to swoop in and address every incident. Trust her to sort things out on her own, and to act like a friend to you, supporting you and asking how your life is going. And if she’s not doing that, ease her out.
But look at what you bring to the situation here. Yeah, Friend makes some dumb choices. You in turn can choose not to involve yourself to such an extent.
Tags: friendships
I am having a hard time parsing what’s going on here. How on earth is Friend managing to be a good parent to a toddler if she’s spending many of her waking hours bouncing between the bed of her ex-boyfriend and his best friend between shopping trips? Maybe this all took place over an extended period of time but the way it’s written sounds like an awful lot of drama for someone who can’t be getting more than three hours of sleep at a stretch.
Also: the way you write about your friend makes it sound like she’s just being taken advantage of by these horrible men. Your friend made a decision to have unprotected sex in simultaneous relationships, including episodes of ‘revenge’ sex. She’s… pretty sketchy herself. And I have no idea what you were ever doing in bed with these people. But both figuratively and literally, you need to get out of her bed. Pronto.
“What the hell am I doing?”
Being codependent.
“How the hell do I convince this girl to behave?”
You don’t. Adults don’t tell other adults how to “behave.” Like Sars said-you aren’t being a friend, you are putting yourself in a parental role, and it’s no wonder she doesn’t take your advice. She defies you like a rebelling teenager would.
I think what you need to do is examine your own role here, because it is not just about your goddaughter. (Although I do believe that is part of your reason for staying). But I think you are also getting some satisfaction out of playing this parental role and it needs to stop. I recommend hopping on amazon.com and getting some books on codependency for some insight into yourself and what you are getting out of this relationship, and how to break the cycle.
One thing you could do in this situation is to take a look at what’s really bothering you about your friend’s behavior. Is it the effect it has on her daughter? The 87 kinds of harm she is putting herself in the way of? The fact that it’s men in the plural? Her degree of carelessness towards you when it comes to the subject of her involvement with said men? Something else altogether? I think understanding exactly which things are bothering you, and how much each of those things is bothering you relative to the others, will help you decide how you want to handle your own self here.
But I agree with Sars – you’ve taken on a parental role with respect to your friend that’s unsustainable for you. It does sound like you are getting something you need out of being in the parental role with your friend. I think we all find ourselves in that kind of situation at one time or another, but think about what it is you’re getting, and see, if it’s something you really need, whether there’s a more constructive, less draining way to get that in your life. Not to say that any of this is easy, because it isn’t. But you cannot change another person’s behavior. The best you can do is support another person as she tries to change her own behavior, but your friend has to come to that decision herself, in her own time, and it’s okay for you to decide that you can’t wait for her to do that. It sucks, but it’s also not your fault.
@Frustrated, how old are you and your friend? I have a nearly-15 year-old son, and – with all due respect – the various people you’ve described in your letter have the emotional maturity of some of my son’s crowd. (Although I pray that those within his crew are making better choices than your “friends” seem to be making, particularly about with whom and how they have sex!) The “revenge” dating/sex, the “let’s call The Guy while we’re out shopping and hook up”, the blatantly ridiculous choices … this all reeks of adolescent behavior – except that I’m pretty sure that none of you are still chronologically adolescents.
I agree with a previous poster: You’ve described your friend as a “great mum”, but – unless there are other (more responsible and consistent) people who are responsible for the lion’s share of Ebony’s care – I can’t fathom how that child is NOT being adversely affected by your friend’s behavior. The kiddo may have enough food and a place to sleep, and maybe even some cute clothes, but that’s not even close to being the sum total of what being a “great” parent entails; while it’s possible for a very young woman to step up, get a crash course in maturity, and be a very good parent, your friend doesn’t sound as though she falls into this category. If you have ANY doubt at all that the baby is 100% safe, or if you have even an inkling of doubt that any of her basic needs are being met, please call child protective services and have them look into the situation.
Your comment about the three of you on your friend’s bed as she is making out with a guy made me think that your friend is, perhaps, still living at her parents’ house? (That’s the last time I can remember using my bedroom as a place to take a group of friends to hang out, and it’s possibly the only scenario that makes *any* sense in terms of how all three of you wound up on the bed. And even then, just … no. What would possess you to do *anything* other than get up and leave the area?) Is living with her parents or some other older, more responsible person what *allows* your friend the latitude to cavort around to shop and bed-hop with a baby around? If so, her parents (or whomever she is living with) are enabling your friend’s destructive behavior, and THEY need to be the ones who talk with her about what she’s doing (and stop enabling her to do it).
I don’t doubt that you genuinely care about your friend and her child, and that your actions stem from true concern. But this is not your battle to fight, and your quasi-parenting behavior isn’t a positive thing for either of you. Your friend needs to figure out what kind of life she wants for her and her daughter, and then SHE needs to bear the consequences of the choices she makes to that end (unless, again, the child is unsafe, in which case you need to have someone intervene).
I, too, think that the drahhh-mah of this whole situation appeals to you at some level. And the reasons for that appeal, if it’s there, are issues that you might want to take some time to explore. Truthfully, I wouldn’t bother to include this person in my life at all for now, but that’s just me.
At the very least, though, I think that you need to think about backing waaaay off – no more advice or exhortations, no more “rescuing” her, no more hanging around while she makes asinine choices. In addition to the whole issue of the unhealthy dynamic you’ve all created, without a partner-in-crime to “ooh” and “aah” and profess delighted shock, and parse every word that every guy utters in her presence, and give her so much attention in general, it seems pretty likely that this lifestyle will start to get old for your friend very quickly.
You seem like a good person. Concentrate on med school, and on cultivating and sustaining healthy relationships and boundaries … you’ll be much less “frustrated”.
How long have you known Freind?
It’s a question that might help you figure out why you are doing what you’re doing as far a the “parenting” role (not why Freind is doing what she’s doing.)
Have you known each other since you were kids, say, or did you meet in high school or college? Or work? What was the context of the freindship when you were getting to know each other–did she used to be different and then spin out of control when she met Ebony’s father, or has she always been a run around girl, emotionally speaking? Has her behavior changed drastically as a result of any specific trauma or just gradually crept up the scale?
If you’ve known her since you were kids, you two may have established this pattern in the sandbox, as it were. If you met later in life, it may be the latest reiteration of a pattern that’s already been established in one or both your emotional lives.
Once you’ve managed to sort and arrange your history with her, you’ll have a better idea of how to break this parenting pattern, and learn different ways to get excitement in your life rather than trailing behind her with mop in hand. Because I think part of you enjoys the emotional highs that being around Freind generates–NOT because you are an evil person that uses her freinds but because maybe your life is kind of boring, or demanding (med school is stress city) and her three ring circus is just the kind of distraction you need.
You love her, you love Ebony. Try to keep those feelings out of this before they get so entangled you need the drama to feel the love.
Alrighty boys and girls, first and foremost thank you all very much for your advice & opinions. I posted this in some time ago, and the situation has then since resolved, but I genuinely appreciate all of your insights.
@50 is the new 35 – I am 18 and several months, and my Friend is nearing her 18th birthday. So yes, realistically speaking, you could say it’s all very adolescent.
I sorted it out with Friend by doing what a lot of you guys have said above – recognizing that I was really a “parent” and not a friend, and realising that this is super detrimental to both of us. So I pretty much just said, yep, that’s nice, enjoy his company, I have to go study. She ignored me for a bit and got a bit cranky, but taking a break from her was the best thing to have done, because it made us both reassess why we were friends and what was going on. The friendship has really levelled out and we can actually enjoy some time together as friends.
It was Ebony’s first birthday recently, and Friend has actually got a stable relationship with a new fella and has well and truly walked away from both J & Ebby’s dad.
Looking back on this, I totally can see that it was a bit of the drama and the whole mopping up after her that made me stick around; which in all honesty, was something pretty silly since playing the martyred friend doesn’t really do much for you or the person at all.
Again, thank you all.
Frustrated,
Add me to the chorus of people wondering how your best friend can be a good mother and engage in all these trysts with guys. I have a 7 month old at home, and honestly it takes all my time and effort to look after her day after day, so much so that I barely have the energy to look at my husband, let alone lust after him. Even if she is managing to clothe and feed your goddaughter, she’s probably neglecting the child’s emotional needs (and boy, are small infants needy in that department before they form a secure bond with their caretaker).
I’m also surprised you’re putting in all that time with your friend when you’re in med school. I think you answered your own question about your emotionally needy friend. You don’t have time to attend to her needs. So let go of them. Visit the goddaughter as time permits, but as to enabling her self-destructive behavior, just tell her (as bluntly as you must) that you don’t have time to hang out in her room so she can make out with a guy. It’s as simple as that.
Frustrated: glad to hear that the situation has improved. I’ve done the “martryed friend” thing myself, and it’s hard to see that’s what you’re doing until you step away from it. From in the middle, it feels like you’re doing what’s right in the moment, what *any* good friend would do, until life throws you out of the situation for just long enough to see it from a new perspective.
So, congratulations, and best of luck with med school.
another vote for “FRUSTRATED is in a codependant relationship.” Even though she is very busy in med school, she needs to find a way to go to Codependents Anonymous meetings. Because she will probably the codependent behaviors, eventually, with other persons, not just this one friend.
Inviting your clueless friend to some of those meetings with you is the best I can suggest. There are glaring things your friend is doing now that suggest she is either desperate to be in a relationship, or totally confused about what a healthy relationship looks like. Like a teenager, as was mentioned above.
Roadmap: Start here, http://www.coda.org/ .
read about codependency, find some meetings near you that could fit your schedule. Good luck.
Did anyone else notice that this Vine question is labeled as July-8-2011? It’s like time travel! ;-)
It IS time travel!
(It…isn’t. It’s so hot that I just assumed it was July already. I’ll change it.)
Attending medical school at “18 and a few months”? Huh – unless things have changed drastically in recent years, med school was typically a post-college level program and more of an early-20s gig, at best. At 18 YO, it’s more likely that a person would maybe be in a pre-med under-grad program at college, or nursing school, or the second coming of Doogie Houser … or it’s entirely possible that I’m just thinking in terms that don’t apply outside of the US.
But, yeah – they’re still in their teens. And Frustrated’s friend became a parent at a pretty darn young age. Not that it makes the things Frustrated described “right”, but it does help explain them a bit.
@Frustrated, I’m glad that things seem to have worked out for all of you and that you were able to step back from the situation for awhile; I hope that life continues to go well.
or it’s entirely possible that I’m just thinking in terms that don’t apply outside of the US. Yes, you are. In many countries (the UK, Australia, much of Asia), med school is done in place of university, not after it. In addition, I have several friends who graduated from college at 18 or younger – it’s not unheard of.
Med students overseas begin their schooling right out of high school. They don’t attend a separate undergrad.
Crap, hit the submit button too soon. That should have been “many med schools overseas begin right after high school”. I gave the mistaken impression that all of them were the same.
To Sarah D. Bunting: I thought it was maybe just some kind of test…like to see who was paying attention. Do I win something super awesome??
(yes I am outside the US) We have a similar, but dissimilar program to you guys. Mine is an undergraduate, but once I have completed it, I will be able to practice as an intern/registrar. Then I go on to specialize.
As for co-dependency, this is interesting. Thank you all for your input, i’ll be sure to read up on it.