Manny 90210
Should I offer congratulations to Red Sox fans, or condolences?
My instinct is to offer condolences to Dodger fans, to tell you the truth.From what I know about the ’08 Dodgers, which is not a ton, any team in that weak division that can step up with definitive offense in the next month puts itself in a position to go to the postseason.And Manny is going to give you offense, provided he doesn’t get hurt blah blah, so from an on-paper OPS standpoint, the Dodgers love their lineup right now.
But you can’t dismiss that “provided” — Manny’s 36, and now he can’t be DHed.It’s play him or sit him, no “get his bat in the line-up.”It’s safe to assume his D will look marginally less Keystone now that he doesn’t have to negotiate the Monster, but 1) he played the Monster for eight years and didn’t get much better at it that I could see than the day he showed up (Sox fans, correct me if need be), and 2) the knock on Manny in the field isn’t so much that he can’t play balls off the wall.Off the wall or not, he acts like he’s not actually getting paid to field in a businesslike, invested manner.And I don’t know how well he’s protected in that lineup in the second place.If Barry Zito is permitted even to roll Manny the ball in 2008, I will eat my hat with hot sauce.
I loved the catch/high-five thing; I guess you can’t have that without the flip side of that, which is the lying-on-the-ball, ha-ha-isn’t-this-funny thing.I don’t have a problem with players not treating the game like it’s a memorial service; it’s a game, it’s entertainment, Manny is entertaining, and I get enough of the storied-history bushwa between innings on the YES Network.Nothing wrong with having fun out there.But Manny can’t have it both ways either — I really don’t feel like he’s got the right to complain about the front office not taking his contract agita seriously when it’s the middle of the season and he’s pantsing around in the Monster making phone calls.And he doesn’t have the right to complain about anything for the rest of the year after shoving a senior citizen to the ground, in my view, but he acted like the Sox had to put up with that, like they couldn’t replace him.This, after they stayed in contention sans Ortiz and Schilling.Come on, dude.
This is what you have to deal with when Manny is on your team.He’s a Hall ofFame hitter, I will absolutely not miss seeing him step into the box against Yankee pitching…I don’t question his ability.I question whether he’s worth the trouble at this point; let’s not forget he got put on waivers a few years back (I forget which season).You have to act a pretty big fool for your club to sell you out like that; you have to act a pretty big fool for your club to say to L.A., basically, “Take him.We’ll pay him, just…just take him, please.”
And L.A.’s record with these big signings is…you know.Andruw Jones.This isn’t nearly the “if we clap really hard, we can save Tinkerbell” level of delusion I think Chicago is suffering from, thinking Junior can play center every day at his age; no disrespect to Griffey, but even he has to be thinking, “Center field?But…see, on my baseball card?How I don’t do that anymore?”Still: didn’t the Dodgers need a shortstop to replace that other super-awesome Red Sock they got at the trade deadline a few years back?Why didn’t they take Jason Bay — he’s younger and less expensive.(Unless Bay didn’t want to go to L.A.”They played Juan Pierre every day. Please no.”)
And what happens after this?Look, Manny is an all-time great hitter, but he’s 36 years old and he’s a known problem child.Only a half dozen teams could even afford him; he’s just alienated one of them, another won’t need him next year if Matsui can play, and I just don’t see why any of the others would agree to a four-year deal with a guy who’s made it clear he won’t run out grounders if he doesn’t get what he wants.That is not shit the manager wants to have to get out in front of once a week when he’s trying to lead a team to the playoffs; that is not shit other players want to have to think about during a pennant race.And when he does start his decline, which he will, that is not shit that’s worth it when you can get a 22-year-old to hit the same weight for a fraction of the price and not give you lip.
Let me put it another way: I don’t like the Red Sox, but I have enormous respect for them as an organization.They did right trading Nomar, they did right dealing Damon (who is great, I love the guy, but the Sox have done fine without him and he’s not exactly a minor child either), and I find it hard to believe that Theo didn’t know exactly what he was doing here.
Tags: Dodgers Jason Bay just wondering Ken Griffey Jr. Manny Ramirez Nomah Red Sox
As always…well said. As a Rockies fan, I’m not happy about Manny landing in L.A., but at least with him, there’s lots and lots of room for things to go awry.
I’m picturing Joe Torre, Larry Bowa and Don(nie Baseball) Mattingly dealing with Manny Being Manny, and I gotta say, I’m cracking myself up.
The senior-citizen shoving thing? I of course agree it’s beyond the pale, but the point is, nothing was beyond the pale for Manny. This was just a natural extension of the temper-tantrum-throwing child-man that was every time indulged and mostly endearing (often in a ‘do you believe this shit?!’ way, but still consequence-free) to the RS Faithful. That they are appalled by it now demonstrates more about them than it reveals about Manny. Manny was just expressing his Manny-ness.
Won’t Girffey get to do even a little DHing in Chicago? Or is Thome the end of that discussion?
As a Red Sox fan (by marriage–I didn’t follow baseball at all until I met my husband in 2003–starting the summer of 2004 I’ve watched at least a portion of 95%+ of Red Sox games and various other games), I’ll let you know that the general consensus seems to be that congratulations are desired.
I’ll kind of miss him, since he’s (obviously) been a fixture during my fandom, but honestly I’m a sucker for defense, so with the exception of the outfield assists, he’s not my kind of guy. Mainly though, I feel sorry for Joe Torre, and I hope he’s feeling patient.
wordy word word, although for the record, I will say that Manny did improve his Green Monster defense considerably.
So I think I have to agree with the view that Manny first spent the season kicking butt and speaking nice to the media (a first!) thinking it would get the Sox to give him what he wanted – a huge multiyear deal for a lazy ass 36 year old. When that failed, he hired Boras, and whether or not it was a plan hatched between the two (one of the NY papers alleged this theory, which is just ridiculous enough to be true), he stopped playing nad effectively became a clubhouse cancer, much like Nomah was in his last few months with the team. So gross – total crybaby rock star behavior – the faked injuries, the usual half-assed game behavior, and of course, the completely reprehensible attack on the 64 year old travelling secretary.
Good riddance. It’s just so lame that he and Boras get what they want! And – Jason Bay is another Boras client. The drama will begin all over again!
As a Sox fan, I would like to thank you for the balanced examination. Not everyone is either 100% “He can do no wrong!” or “He sucks and let’s everybody haaaate him!”, Shaughnessy.
Speaking of whom, by the by, you can offer condolences that he’s going to be insufferable for weeks over this … and congratulations that he’ll eventually at least have to transfer his “Hate this guy! Hate him! Why don’t you guys hate him yet?” shtick to somebody else. Heh.
But yeah, I’ll miss the production and the fun times. (He petted Tavarez’s head! Like a puppy!) I won’t miss the tantrums and the sulky phoning-it-in and the occasional assault. I don’t know that this makes ol’ Theo a genius — he traded Alex Gonzalez for Lugo (sob!); he traded to get Gagne, yo — but I’m willing to give Bay a try.
(To me, Manny’s defense was like his offense — often good in his areas of skill, with the occasional wtf? moment. He was actually good at playing that wall, he had a good quick return … but he also had more than a few “mental errors” out there.)
Congratulations, I think.
I was born and raised in the heart of Red Sox Nation, and Manny has served us well over the years, but I definitely think it was time. I mean, he seemed to get along with his teammates, but then he would ask to be traded every year. And he’s getting older and more expensive by the minute. Enough is enough, you know?
Plus, even though he would occasionally make a nice goofy catch out there in left, he was practically on his way to becoming another Barry ‘StatueMan’ Bonds with the amount of fielding he was *not* doing.
Speaking as a Sox fan, I’m sad that it had to come to this, but I think it’s probably going to be for the best. I can’t even begin to understand why this all came to a head right *now*, but whatever’s been going on with Manny this season it seemed like it wasn’t just irritating the front office anymore, it was affecting team cohesion and changing the way the rest of the team was playing (although maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part after the painful, painful game against the Angels on Wednesday).
Overall I’ll miss him, both as a player and as an entertaining character, but there’s a lot about him I won’t miss — smacking around old men, starting stupid fights in the dugout, and failing to hustle down the damn first base line, etc. And I won’t miss any of the Manny we’ve been seeing for the last two weeks.
The pennant for the NL West will be decided by everyone throwing their names into a 2002 Diamondbacks cap — except for the Giants, who will instead be permitted to let Tim Lincecum pull out the winner.
Signed, a sad, sad SF fan
As an Indians fan, I’ve never felt right with Manny … “being Manny” up there in Boston and helping them win so much. I nearly lost it over the holidays at one of my childhood friends who’s now a Boston resident who wasn’t a baseball fan at all while she lived here, but just loves the Red Sox now, and is all ‘hey, this Manny Ramirez is really good!’. Grrr! But, I’ve gotten a lot of laughs out of him this year with his whole Gold Glove thing, wondering how he could have spent so much time standing almost directly behind Omar Vizquel and still think he’s any kind of fielder.
I’m really happy they were able to get rid of him, and I think it’s awesome that he’s really that annoying that it finally outweighed his bat.
But, if he helps get his new team to the World Series, I will stop laughing and begin crying again.
Well, I’m a Red Sox fan, and right now I lean in the “condolences, Dodgers” direction. On the one hand: future HOF, intimidating hitter, often has fun with the game. On the other hand: assaulting senior citizens, pulling this trade crap every year, below average fielding (although I have to say that I don’t think playing balls off the Monster was the main problem), phantom knee problems during crucial serieses (?), and his age. As you pointed out, Sars, the Sox have a recent history of making these deals at just the right time (and we can probably throw Pedro in there as an example, too), and I also have to believe Theo knew what he was doing.
I don’t love the desperation of the whole thing, and I REALLY don’t love that we ONLY got Bay while giving away Moss (who will be good) and Hansen (who, while not amazing, was still a pitcher, and–have you seen the Sox middle relief lately? Yikes!) in addition to Ramirez. But I’ll take it.
Has anyone else seen the clip where the Chicago GM talks about how Griffey will be better off in center than in left? Um, what?
Sox fan checking in with a fact: Manny was put on waivers between the 03 and 04 seasons, when the Sox tried to sign A-Rod; no takers. Then he won the WS MVP.
As a Sox fan, I agree with you. This is just fine with me. I won’t say I didn’t have a pang, but it’s really only nostalgia for yet another member of the WS team leaving; ie, it’s emotional. From a business standpoint, I’d rather have a young bat than deal with any more of Manny being Manny. He helped us, I’ll always be grateful, now it’s time to move on.
There were other trades than the loss of Pudge? You have Pudge now, sigh. Sigh.
And we got Farnsworth.
And I am just going to be over here, thinking really hard about basketball for a little while.
@michele: “congratulations that he’ll eventually at least have to transfer his “Hate this guy! Hate him! Why don’t you guys hate him yet?” shtick to somebody else.”
Uch, Shaughnessy. I hope he transfers it to Papelbon, who took over as my Most Hated Sock during All-Star Week. You’re a great pitcher, laddie, but the game is in Yankee Stadium, home of one Mariano Rivera, and if your OWN MANAGER isn’t going to let you close, well, take a hint and shut the fuck up.
@Yahtzee: I meant to mention Pedro, too. Not much good to you from the DL, Omar.
That clip is hilarious. “Everyone thinks center field is harder to play, but that’s not really true.” Um. “Harder” has more than one meaning, dude. I don’t know that I’d call it a thinking man’s position — I don’t think it’s that hard to learn *how* to play it — but you need a guy with some speed and something resembling an arm. You don’t always get that (RIP Bernie) but that’s what you’re shooting for.
Griffey knows *how* to play center; he knows *what* he’s supposed to do. That’s not the point. If he gets close enough to a dunker in short left to make a diving catch, which he won’t, said dive will put him in traction until the winter meetings, is the point.
Yankees fan here, so I’m hardly impartial, but in regards to Manny’s defense the only thing I can think of is that Onion piece a year or so ago where the Red Sox granted his request to work from home. They acknowledged the loss of offense but felt that their defense would improve in an unmanned left field.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/manny_ramirez_asks_red_sox
To try to be more even-handed, Sox fans, enjoy A-Rod Placed on 60-Day Emotionally Disabled List:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/52502
As a Sox Fan (White not Red) I can say that I’m not sure where the heck Griffey’s going to end up. Putting him in Center and moving Swish to first doesn’t really solve our Center field problem and while Swish isn’t lightning fast out there, I think he’s probably faster than Griffey.
And if we move Swisher to first, then Konerko’s, what, a back up DH for Thome? I’m just not sure what Kenny Williams is doing. There are rumors that this is just part one of a two-step trade process and that down the road we could see Swisher traded to possibly the Nationals for one of their pitchers. Needless to say, no one really seems to be jumping for joy at this deal.
I guess we’ll see how it goes tonight, but IF we manage to hang on in 1st it’s going to be a very stressful August and September for White Sox fans.
Sars, I was born a Red Sox fan. My grandmother lived on the side of Connecticut that put her firmly in the heart of Fenway Park all the way up to her passing at 91. With her not there, I cried more at the boys’ incredible comeback in ’04 than I did every year they lost. Yet, for the love of the game, and all human decency, I’ll say what I’m sure my grandma would say about Manny if she were still around:
“He’s a damn fool.”
Have fun with him, Dodgers. No backsies!
Well said. I’m another born and raised in Red Sox Nation fan that thinks the Red Sox will definitely be better off, but I am still sad to see Manny go, and even sadder that it had to go down this way. I’ve always liked Manny. I think he is an excellent player, sometimes found his quirks to be amusing, and generally feel the focus should be on the game not the perceived petulance of a player, that is, until it starts to effect the team directly. I was giving Manny the benefit of the doubt right up until he said the Sox didn’t deserve a player like him. Have your issues with management and the owners, fine, but why would you disrespect your fellow team members like that? That was my final straw. I wish him well, I thank him for his efforts on our behalf these past 8 years, and I really hope this will enable the Sox to shake their slump and move forward towards the post-season.
Dodgers and Red Sox fan here — and a Red Sox fan who wanted Manny out of Boston. This? This is not what I wanted.
Okay, to be sure, Manny gives LA a legit cleanup hitter and should put a complete stop to Torre’s insistence on batting Jeff Kent (.255/.307/.406, 83 OPS+) there. This is a major plus. But it’s about the only plus.
(1) To say that “the Dodgers love their lineup right now,” even just on paper, is an overstatement. The team has a collective .697 OPS at the moment. Manny is not going to suddenly bolt them to the top of that heap.
(2) We now have five starting outfielders, maybe like five and a half, depending on what you think of Delwyn Young. The only way Manny improves the lineup at all is if the rest of the outfield consists of Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier. There is no improvement if Torre chooses instead to use Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre.
(3) We traded Andy LaRoche to Pittsburgh. Okay, okay. Torre’s massive mancrush on Blake DeWitt (not that I blame him) meant that LaRoche was going to drop another spot on the depth chart. I know that. I know he’ll get lots of playing time in Pittsburgh and maybe they’ll let him reach his potential. But I HATE that LA never gave him a chance. HATE IT. He has an injury history, some inconsistency, but still. Maybe it’s naive of me, but I was really hoping he and DeWitt would both be with the big club in ’09 to fill out the infield. Sigh. I wish him all the luck in the world, though.
Why didn’t Ned trade for a shortstop? Because Ned is a moron. Maybe he just couldn’t find one, and maybe this was more about appearances than anything. Boston needed to get rid of Manny, so they did, and Ned needed to make a trade that didn’t look completely idiotic, so he did. I think in his tenure, the Dodgers have made two other acquisitions that worked out. Which doesn’t say much, considering Maddux was a two-month rental and Ethier still isn’t getting adequate playing time. Manny should work out. So we’ll see.
As far as “protection” in the Dodgers lineup: hahahahahaha. Well, Martin, Kemp, Ethier, and Loney are all hitting decently enough, and Kent at least has a little power. So there’s that. Everyone else pretty much sucks donkey balls. The only reason LA’s still a factor is their pitching.
As a Sox fan, though, I totally love the trade. Manny annoyed the hell out of me, and I don’t think we’re giving up much by acquiring Bay, whose O will be comparable and whose D will be marginally better. Ortiz will probably drop to cleanup, and Nancy can bat third. I have faith in Tito to put together the right lineup (a faith I do not have in Joe Torre). I have no problem with this at all. Manny’s bat will be missed. I will not miss any of his antics, headcase-ery, or other variations on “Manny being Manny.” Yechhh.
Is there a line to give Joe Torre a hug? (I can just picture him sitting in his office, thinking “Dude, I thought I was getting AWAY from all that!”) Can’t wait for the first Manny/Jeff Kent Hate-Off, though.
I wonder if things would be different if the Sox/Yankees series had only been on NESN instead of Fox and ESPN. Remy and Orsillo wouldn’t have let it get blown so out of proportion.
I guess I’m thinking of it like a bad break-up: he was really awesome to have around, but that childish-fun act that you once thought was so cute got sort of annoying, and you don’t think badly of him or hate him or anything, it was just sort of time to move on to someone else.
I saw a stat on Sportcenter this morning that the Dodgers have had 30 games this year where they only scored one run. That’s atrocious. Not that adding one bat, with no protection (as you mentioned) is going to change all that, but under those circumstances, I can understand why they would role the dice on his talent, despite his predilection for being “Manny.” Gah. I’m so sick of that being some sort of excuse.
I personally am inclined to offer congratulations to both teams, as neither of them traded away Mark Teixiera (sic) for a pack of Garbage Pail Kids and a scratched Virginia quarter.
As a Dodgers fan, I am most definitely pleased with this move. I know Manny’s limitations, and I know he’s a head case. He’s also maybe the best hitter of his generation, and while no longer at his peak, hasn’t entered his severe decline yet. If ever Mr. Ramirez would be motivated, this would be the time: The next two months decide whether he indeed makes his $80 million over the next four years. If he bombs in L.A., or goes all Milton Bradley (shudder), he’ll still get a nice deal from someone, but it won’t be as nice as it will be if he leads the Dodgers to the postseason and maybe even their first playoff series win since 19fricking88.
LaRoche … meh, whatever. Much-hyped prospect, and I probably prefer him to DeWitt in the long run, but this team has plenty of young talent. Young talent isn’t the problem at the moment. Scoring runs is the problem.
This is a two-month rental, and the Dodgers are on the hook for exactly no money. In my mind, if you have a chance to make a run at the postseason, you have to try it. If you’re always playing for the future, you’ll never, ever win in the present. I say this is very low risk, potentially very high reward.
So to the Pirates, I say thanks for dismantling your team and making this possible.
@k – I’m feeling you re: Pudge. (sigh) I mean, if we’re honest, we can admit that this was probably going to be his last year as a Tiger, but to lose him before the season ended is just … depressing. What the Tigers will miss most about Pudge is not his catching, or hitting, etc., but his leadership in the clubhouse. He was, by all accounts, a true inspiration to the other Tigers, getting the other players to work harder in the gym, and play harder on the field. And his intensity was second to none. When a player returned to the dugout after making a hit, or scoring a run, Pudge was always at the top of the steps, wanting to be the first one to offer the fist bump or high-five. Even on those days when he wasn’t playing … *especially* on those days when he wasn’t playing.
During Wednesday night’s game (the day of the trade), the announcers told of how, when Pudge left the locker room for the final time, he told them that his bat bag was empty. So many of his soon-to-be-former teammates asked for his autographs on a bat, or ball, or whatever, that Pudge was cleaned out. That speaks volumes about the amount of respect and admiration that Pudge had not only from his teammates, but from all of us here in Detroit.
Sorry…topic? Manny. Hmmm. Gotta totally agree with you, Sars, on the “flip” side of Manny. The high-five with the fan mid-play? Fun. The oh-my-gosh-I’ve-fallen-and-I-can’t-giet-up-so-I’ll-roll-on-the-ball? Embarassing. Good luck, Mr. Torre – you’re gonna need it.
I think Dodgers and Pirates fans both get congratulations and Sox fans get mild condolences. Pirates got some cheap young prospects; Dodgers get Manny’s bat for free with no obligation to put up with his bullshit next year if it turns out he’s not worth it. The Sox, on the other hand, lose Manny and the protection he offers Ortiz, so his production will probably also drop a bit, plus a couple of nice trade-bait prospects, all in exchange for a player who doesn’t hit or even field (according to the last two years’ FRAAs) as well as Manny. However, it’s pretty clear that the Sox weren’t going to pick up his option next year, so getting anything at all for him is probably a win of sorts. And I keep telling myself that Theo must have reason to think that Bay will do better in a hitter’s park.
What I’m really excited about is that the Dodgers, as part of the trade, agreed not to pick up Manny’s option. And you know what city he really loves? Toronto. And heyyyyyyy, guess what team has a truckload of money coming off the books for next year? Toronto! Come on come on come on come onnnnnnn…
As a Yankee fan, I offer congratulations to me. I have hated Manny since his rookie season with the Indians when he brought his PABness to play at the stadium for the first time. It was hate at first sight, and over the years, my hate was justified and became stronger when he became a Red Sox.
With this trade, I will no longer have to see Manny play again for the rest of the season. The Dodgers are done playing the Mets so I won’t be stuck seeing the local news talking about him much. And unless the Yankees and the Dodgers are meeting in the World Series (which I severely doubt with the Yanks’ bad playoff run these last years and the Dodgers’ inability to make much noise in the playoff themselves), I will be Manny-free.
I don’t think it cost the Dodgers anything for a 2-3 month player. Come 2009, I think Omar will sign Manny for the Mets and my Manny hate will continue as he moves on to a team I hate as much as the Red Sox.
As a Red Sox fan, I’ve got to come down on the side of this being better for the team, even if we “lost” in the trade. I like having a baseball team that consists of “characters”. I was sad to lose some of those characters (Damon, Millar), even when it made sense. Manny was definitely one of those. But he crossed the line a few too many times this summer, so I feel a whole lot less sad about it than I would if his only headline antics this year were the high-five and the falling-on-the-ball (stupid, but so long as it doesn’t happen to often, what the heck).
After the “pushing down a 64 year old” incident, I was musing to myself about the modern baseball era and how I’d never really been tested by being a fan of a team that contained a *great player* who was also an asshole. I got to thinking about old-timey baseball, and how some of the guys were princes, but a lot of them — probably more than we know about, or more than were known about at the time — had feet of clay, colorful off the field habits, or just were, like, Ty Cobb.
I’m not saying that Manny is at the same level as Ty Cobb. But I did wonder for a moment about the trade-offs you make as a fan. Not what you’re willing to excuse, as such, but what you’re willing to accept as reality balanced against getting to watch an extraordinary player perform. And maybe it makes me a too-fastidious fan to say that I liked the hits and liked the “fun” side of the quirkiness, but I turn up my nose at the other side of it. I don’t know.
At any rate, it was nice that Bay’s debut in Boston turned into such a feel-good story. I don’t expect him to “replace” Manny, but I feel okay about him out there, and in the line-up. I still feel like the team has “characters” on it, whom I like in a much less conflicted way than I liked Manny.
Finally: to be honest, the NYC antipathy for Papelbon during the All-Star Week utterly confounded me. I still don’t get it. The reports I’d read made it sound like all he said was that sure, he wanted to be the closer (ego much? well, DUH), BUT knew that Rivera should be and was going to be. And I thought it sounded like honesty later when he pointed out that what kind of closer would he be if he didn’t want to play and didn’t think he should be The Guy?
… A diplomatic one, I guess. I don’t know. He still pulled out the diplomacy *within the same interview*, but from this view, it seemed like the media was a lot more interested in creating a controversy than in characterizing it well. It lookedan awful lot like the NY media misreporting things in order to make a villain out of him, for not much apparent reason than that he’s a member of the Red Sox. And you know — I think that kind of stinks. I think it’s completely fair game for the media in each city to tear into the opposite team’s players during the regular run of the season, but geez, in the guy’s first All-Star Game (in which he does legitimately belong), and with his pregnant wife sitting beside him? Lay the hell off, okay? For ONE DAMN GAME, I am happy to turn into a fan who roots for some of the Yankees to do well and be shown to good advantage. Let’s everybody show some class, okay?
“It lookedan awful lot like the NY media misreporting things in order to make a villain out of him, for not much apparent reason than that he’s a member of the Red Sox.”
ESPN was doing it too. I don’t think Gammons was a big fan of his comments. Was it blown out of proportion? Probably. But this is another instance where the same “Mom Mom look at me” behavior that can be charming (I don’t think the dancing qualifies, but the Nation seems to like it) can also backfire on the player. You do that from the center of a storied rivalry like this one, the New York tabs will chew your ass raggedy, and I’m not saying that’s right, or that everyone isn’t well sick of the rivalry being turned up to eleven all the time, but if he didn’t know that was probably going to happen, 1) he’s kind of slow, and 2) now he does. Whether he chose his words poorly or he’s just an arrogant jackass, this is the world we live in.
I also don’t think the media is obligated to pull its punches because the guy’s wife is pregnant. I’m not about to go look it up, but I doubt Shaughnessy ever let up on a Yankee player on that basis. They’re trying to sell papers, unfortunately; if you don’t want the little woman put through it, get friendly with the old “no comment.”
Papelbon is probably a perfectly nice person. My player hate-ons aren’t always logical (see: Pedroia). Everyone will have forgotten this in a year anyway. But I’m not inclined to feel sorry for the guy.
Well, when I got down to the “pregnant wife” thing I was thinking less of the media at that point and more of the parade, where she’s sitting *right there*, and you had a cop sitting along with the driver in the seat of the pickup truck saying he thought things were unsually out of hand. And that’s where I’m thinking that it’s all a bit beyond the pale in the context of an All-Star Game and comments that weren’t actually dissing the hometown closer, like, at all. (No, in the normal course of things, I don’t expect anyone to have any consideration for the player’s families in the abstract; I just don’t expect them to spit on the players while the family is standing beside them.)
Should he have kept his mouth shut? Yes. Figured out a way to be more diplomatic? Sure. But he’s a ballplayer, and nobody’s accusing him of *not* being kinda slow, and… yeah, count me as one of those who’s just weary of the “storied rivalry” spilling over into anything and everything all the time. Plus, feeling that New York could have been a bit more gracious considering the way the Yankees YANKEES Yankees got to be the Pretty Princesses of the evening, like, what, the paens to the stadium and the embarrassment of Hall of Famer riches and the parade weren’t enough, you’re not having fun unless you’re crucifying Red Sox players as well? … Okay then, but it seems excessive.
Though, if you ask me if Boston would have treated Yankee players, or the team in general, in a parade in this city any better, in a similar context, I’d have to admit that no, I don’t expect that they would. But I’d be ashamed of our treating them and their wives that way; not blaming the player for being a comparatively-mild and ultimately backpedaling dumbass.
So I get the “god, shut up, you pup” thing, but I guess I don’t get the escalation of it to the point where the guy is Public Enemy No. 1.
I wasn’t really aware of any of that going on, I have to admit. This is the same kind of thing that got BSD and me pelted with beers during the postseason because BSD had his Sox hat on; there’s always some asshole taking it too seriously. I don’t really get it, because it would never occur to me to bring batteries to a sporting event for the purposes of hurling them, but again, whatever you think about the rivalry or the citizens of New York, whether he or his wife deserved to have shit thrown at them is ultimately irrelevant. Of course they didn’t. But it probably wouldn’t have happened if he’d kept his mouth shut, or didn’t play for Boston, or whichever factor you’d like to blame.
Anyone who harassed him with airborne shit is an asshat, but…it’s kind of like when celebrities complain that the paparazzi are all over them. At this point in cultural history, you can’t really expect different.
I’m not blaming him; I just don’t have a lot of pity for him.
RE: Papelbon and his wife: What I heard was that there were death threats against her. That seems excessive to me, and beyond the pale of what a Red Sox player/public figure should be willing to put up with.
Re: Manny: Sars, you wrote in your essay that he would not (could not?) be a designated hitter . . . oh, never mind. I’m an idiot, but an idiot who just answered her own question (being a Red Sox fan who is teaching herself baseball, I often forget about the different rules in the NL).
…DEATH threats? Ew. I agree, that’s well beyond.
I will say that, if you’re going to put that on a group of people, whatever DSM classification covers “feelings of inadequacy fueled by rageohol” is probably more accurate than “Yankee fans.” Because we aren’t claiming those guys. Paps is a minor douche, but death threats, come on.
What a waste of crappy $8 beer that was. Heh.
Sars: I dig it. I don’t mean to imply that there isn’t a huge difference between the asshats in both fanbases who take it waaaaaay too far, and the general fans. Or that it was all Yankees fans who bore responsibility for that kind of shit, because, no. As a Sox fan, I get angry at the “Sox fans” who seem sometimes to be more “fans of hating on anything connected to the Yankees” than anything else.
I get the booing and catcalling in the ASG itself, although at times that too seemed a bit excessive, but, *shrug*. If a guy’s a pup and yet is going to open his mouth and demonstrate his ego, then chants *on the field* of “overrated” are kind of just desserts, really.
And I totally get thinking that the guy is a minor douche. (I think the dancing thing is appealing to the fans not so much because it’s cute, as because “dude is *craaaazy*”, and harmless, shake-your-head-in-disbelief crazy is a fun thing to have on a team; which brings the topic back around to Manny, and what I’ll actually miss about him.) It was the escalation from “thinking the guy’s a bit douchey, with an out of proportion ego” to what looked like a massive outpouring of HATE!!! that was leaving me puzzled.
Jason Bay, 4 for 5 last night with 2 doubles, 2 RBI’s and 2 runs scored. Now batting .429 as a Sock. Right now, I’m not missing Manny one bit. Heh.