The Vine: April 15, 2009
Hang in there, taxable citizens.
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Dear Sars…I suspect this letter is more for your readers’ input than your own, but it’s a topic I need some unbiased and impersonal advice on.
It has to do with drinking, and what’s realistic when someone wants and needs to seriously cut down on their consumption.
A little back story…my father was alcoholic, and on both sides of my family there’s always been a “normalcy” to drinking.Either the German folk drink beer in the evenings while playing cards or watching TV, or the other side of the family found it “normal” to have a few cocktails in the evening to unwind.I didn’t really start drinking until my late 20s, when I started coming out of my shy shell and going out with friends, and then coming out into the gay world, with all the tendencies for abuse that entails.
So anyway, for 15+ years it became common to occasionally binge on the weekend, feel like crap, regret it, not drink for a week or so, repeat, etc.All this with periods of little or no drinking, or periods of more frequent drinking.Friends and partners have told me I drink too much, but it took a breaking point last week, namely a DUI arrest (no accident or injuries thank god) to convince me that I need to make changes.
But what I don’t know is what changes are realistic.In the gay world, my circle of friends, social activities, etc., it seems impractical to give up drinking completely.What I wish could happen ideally is that I get help with come strategies to just control when and how much I allow myself to drink, i.e. only a few beers, and only in social circumstances, never at home alone, and never when expecting to drive, etc.
But I don’t know if this is a practical hope for someone with my history.And I wonder if there are treatment or counseling programs that could help me achieve that, or if all such programs strive for and expect 100% abstinence.Do you or your readers have any insights?
Thanks in advance, love all your advice, and that of your wise readers.
JC
Dear JC,
People drink for a lot of reasons.It sounds to me like you drink to ease a deep anxiety — that, although you feel ashamed of it in some ways (the DUI, of course, but also because you need it, and because you feel like you can’t control it), you also feel that giving it up is not an option for you.
You do a lot of bargaining in your letter, trying to find ways that you can keep drinking, reasons to give me for why you “can’t” or “shouldn’t” stop, and it’s that that suggests to me that you should stop completely.Yeah, you can try to put in all these controls and rules, only drinking beer, only drinking three, whatever it is, but then it’s just clinging to the rules and the policing of the drinking instead of to the drinking itself — and you don’t address why you binge-drink, why you feel like shit, why you put yourself in these positions that you don’t want to be in and yet somehow do.
Now, that doesn’t mean you’re an alcoholic.Problem drinking is a spectrum.But: you’re on it, and you won’t know where unless you stop drinking; force yourself to deal with your anxieties, your social discomfort, the divide between your true self and the self the world sees, whatever’s going on; and then decide if drinking is something you can do occasionally (to excess, even; we’re none of us perfect), or something that you use addictively in order to avoid other problems.
Stop drinking for a predetermined period — completely.During that period, go to therapy, and tell your therapist what’s brought you there, that you’ve quit drinking and you want to talk about that, and whatever’s behind that.But don’t keep telling yourself you don’t have to stop, because at least for a while, you really do.
Dear Sars-rhymes-with-cares,
I’ve come to you before and have received sage advice, so I’m back begging for more.This is a huge family drama — but it’s not my family, at least not by blood.I’ll try to condense it to the bare essentials of a rather epic story (all names changed), but I warn you, it’s gonna be long.
I’ve known Sarah, Melly, and Josh (all siblings) since the 7th grade. We were all good friends, especially me, Sarah and Melly, though Melly was my best friend for many years.They come from a very difficult family with parents that had many problems — verbal abuse, infidelity that was flaunted, bitter divorce, lots of emotional manipulation. Melly will tell anyone that she bore the brunt of the damage.
So, years go by, and our circle of friends remained pretty tight, but one by one Melly began to cut off friends and even one of her parents for being “disloyal,” crossing her, and betraying her.The list of people she was no longer speaking to grew and grew, eventually to include one of our closest mutual friends (Allison) and her own sister, Sarah, and for a brief time her brother Josh.
The circumstances around these fallings-out were varied.In the case of our mutual friend Allison, Allison went behind Melly’s back to Melly’s father to betray certain confidences and to disparage Melly’s then boyfriend.It was inappropriate — nobody liked the boyfriend but there was no evidence of abuse or anything dangerous.Melly did not speak to Allison for about 5 years.The situation between her and her siblings was a blow-up of old sibling rivalries and historical grievances that culminated in a huge fight with her siblings ganging up on her and yelling at her for a history of old problems.This all took place on a vacation with another old friend Sienna who was there, and Melly was so angry and hurt that she ended up leaving the group and finding her own way home.
According to Melly this was extremely traumatic and frightening to be in a foreign country and be so betrayed by her own family, though I don’t really remember all the details (keep in mind, she was an adult who had traveled alone abroad before). Within a year or so, Melly felt her brother had apologized abjectly enough times that she started talking to him again.She did not, however, talk to her sister Sarah for many, many years, despite Sarah’s repeated overtures.
Where do I fit in all of this?Well, I heard pretty much all sides of the stories, and while I certainly sympathized with Melly’s anger, I also know the history of her own bad behavior within the family unit. And I really can’t get with the notion of permanently writing off so many people, but if she really, really thought those relationships had become so toxic (as she put it) that it was unhealthy for her to have any contact with them, it’s not really my place to continue to tell her she has to start talking to them again, even if even if I disagreed with was she was doing.
But then!The drama began anew when I was planning, you guessed it, my wedding.I was marrying Andy, who was someone I met through my friendships with Melly and Sarah, and who had been a good friend of both sisters also since the 7th grade.So when I told Melly that we were getting married, I braced myself, because the 3 people I wanted for bridesmaids?Sarah, Allison (remember her, an early dismissal) and Melly.
I realized it was unrealistic since Melly wasn’t speaking to EITHER of them at the time, but I hoped that Melly would consider the possibility of patching things up for that one day.She then asked if Sienna was attending, which she was, and Melly went fairly ballistic at that point.She accused me of being disloyal and didn’t want to come to the wedding at all.I was prepared for this possibility, but was not going to dis-invite three people because of Melly.
I waited a few days and wrote her a letter saying that I understood she still felt hurt (years-not-talking count at that point: Sarah and Sienna 3, Allison about 5), but that I would really like her to be able to attend so she could be there for me and Andy.After all, two of her close friends were getting married.TO EACH OTHER.She eventually relented and attended the wedding, but took my aside at the reception to let me know how uncomfortable she was, and that she made this sacrifice for me. Gee, thanks.
Well, that pretty much ended our close friendship, although I was not put on her official shit list, because she still is cordial to me when we occasionally see each other, and I am cordial to her — even warm, after all she was my best friend for many years.
My husband, on the other hand, basically said he’d had enough of her shit and drama and has no interest in interacting with her — but he’s polite, at least. I loved Melly dearly, and all the parties involved in these dramas have been tight for over 25 years at this point, but now there’s a new wrinkle:
Sarah, the sister, is getting married.She and Melly finally got back on speaking terms fairly recently.Not soon enough, in my opinion, because during the years of blackballing Sarah, Sarah developed a life-threatening illness that nearly killed her and has caused her years of pain, loss of job, hospitalizations, etc.Melly was made aware of this as it was happening and did nothing to renew their relationship.
OK, if you are still with me, here’s the problem:Sarah’s maid of honor is Sienna, whom Melly has never forgiven for her part of whatever the hell happened on that vacation (we are now talking well over 10 years ago).Sienna has been Sarah’s steadfast friend throughout her horrific medical ordeal that lasted years, and they are extremely close.When Melly found out that Sarah was having Sienna at the wedding she hung up on her, and has refused to have any contact with Sarah AT ALL.Total blackout again — will not return emails asking to please talk to her, that Sarah is happy to make some kind of compromise, that she will cancel the wedding altogether if that’s what it takes — just please don’t shut her out again.
Sarah is getting these messages through to Melly through their brother, but Melly has yet to respond at all.The wedding is this summer, and Sarah is so depressed about this — she can’t enjoy any of the preparations because she thinks she might have to call the whole thing off.
Part of me wants to get in my car, drive the 300 miles to Melly, and smack her in the face with a brick.Part of me wants to then drive over to Sarah, give her a hug, and tell her that she should just plan her wedding and the hell with Melly.But Sarah has made it perfectly clear that she lost her sister for years and doesn’t want to lose her again.
There’s a lot you can infer about the character of Melly from all this, but she is complicated and contradictory.On the one hand, her sense of entitlement and astonishing selfishness is astounding.On the other hand, she can be the most remarkably kind, charming, caring person. It’s eerie and inexplicable.She is stunningly beautiful but deeply conflicted about her looks, she’s the first person to jump in to help a stranger, she will listen carefully and sympathetically to a friend in need of help or advice and will provide enormous emotional support for them (as long, of course, as they are not on her shit list), but her utter solipsism regarding any interpersonal conflicts is striking.One thing in support of my brick fantasy?When she found out the Sarah was considering cancelling the wedding rather than not having her sister there, Melly’s response was that it would be terrible because everyone would blame Melly.Not, “Oh, God, I am ruining my sister’s wedding” — it was “Oh, God, people will give me shit about it”.
I love Sarah.She’s one of my best friends.And she has come to me for advice, and the only thing I could tell her was this: give yourself a deadline to hear back from Melly, no more than a week, and then if she still won’t even talk about options, say fuck it and plan your wedding.
Is there ANY other advice you can give me that I can share with the assorted parties involved in this clusterfuck?
Signed,
If you made it through this whole thing I should send YOU a prize
Dear Or Some Gatorade,
Sarah is depressed; Sarah considered cancelling the wedding because of Melly?Melly is eating that shit up with a gravy ladle.And I don’t care if she’s Dale Carnegie (and she ain’t) — she’s not really that complicated, and the extended back story doesn’t tell me that she’s worth it anymore. It tells me you’ve all spent too much time trying to get sugar out of a stone.
But this is the issue, of course — that I think you’re most of the way there with this concept, but Sarah isn’t, and when it comes to weddings, you want to think everyone you love and who loves you will get it together for that one day, put their assholishness aside to celebrate your happiness, and so on.
But that doesn’t always happen, and Sarah is having to face that — and it’s a process.There’s nothing you can really say that will speed it up for Sarah, besides what you’ve already said; your job now, I think, is to keep her focused on everything else about the wedding that’s happy and positive, and to remind her occasionally, in a kind way, that letting Melly control her feelings and her plans in this regard isn’t an honor Melly has earned.
The other thing is that there’s really only one way to break Melly of this behavior, and that’s to stop responding to it the way you all have in the past — kissing her ass, begging her to forgive you for slights that either you didn’t commit or they happened a president ago.Suggest this to Sarah, that her approach is not effective, and that because Melly has functionally abandoned her already, the worst thing that could happen has…basically already happened.
It’s so hard to let go of someone, even when you know you have to, even when that someone has already let go of you.Especially then, sometimes.The only thing harder is to get someone else to see that it’s time to open her hands.Melly is a dick, but until Sarah gets from “wants that not to be true” to “accepts, nevertheless, that it is,” try to give Sarah perspective on it — that she does have good friends and close family, that she does have a lot to celebrate, and that putting Melly at the center of her wedding, or anywhere near the center of her emotional life, is a mistake that won’t work and shouldn’t be repeated.
Hello Sars,
I hate to over-categorise, but I don’t think anyone I know in a more personal capacity than following their website is Into Baseball.
I’m watching a game, because I’ve always been curious about baseball and enjoyed, with some incomprehension, your posts about it, and for the first time ever I have access to a channel that shows it occasionally.It’s Cubs vs. Houston Astros, and there is so much here that I totally don’t understand.
I think I’m working out most of it by context (I assume the Cubs being up 8-0 in the third up-arrow innings means they’re winning hard, right?) but one thing’s confusing the hell out of me and it seems to be one of those things it’s just assumed anyone who cares will know:
A dude just hit the ball hard and it bounced once in the outfield and went over the fence.The fielders chasing it threw up their hands when it went over the fence and stopped running.But as far as I can tell, the batsman stopped at second base.
If the fielders can’t get the ball, why would the batsman stop running?
And why don’t the commentators ever explain anything?
Cheers,
Ignorant Australian (but I could tell you anything you want to know about cricket)
Dear Ig,
First, unlike in cricket, the batsman is…not called a batsman.He’s the batter.Second, the “third up-arrow inning” is actually the top half of the third inning, which means the visiting team is batting.(And yes, the Cubs were beating some Astro ass, which is not that big of an accomplishment this year from what I understand…Houston fans may rend their clothing in the comments.)
When the ball bounces in the outfield or corner and then out of play, it’s called a ground-rule double.The batter must stop at second base; any men on base must stop two bases from where they started (so if the batter hits a ground-rule double with a runner on first base, the runner has to stop at third).
The rule seems to exist in order to differentiate those hits from home runs, which need to leave the field on the fly.Once the ball goes into the stands by whatever means, it’s functionally irretrievable, but the rules don’t “want” a ball that bounced out of play to have the same value as a homer.A century ago, you’d see more shenanigans on the field — fielders trapping balls in their uniform shirts, then producing them later; cap catches; paying fans in the bleachers to interfere with outfielders — and a lot of rules that might seem arbitrary can be traced to that time.
As to the commentators, it depends on the people calling the game; I find that they tend to over-explain stuff, but it’s hard to explain what’s going on for fans of all levels without boring longtime fans, or missing a play-by-play call because they’re walking the audience through a basic statistic like OBP.
But usually the guys in the booth will say something that will let you Google it and get the basic idea.If not, write in anytime.Heh.
Tags: Chicago Cubs etiquette friendships health and beauty Houston Astros
The Yankees radio guy (the, um, redoubtable John Sterling) insists on referring to that play as a Grounds Rule double. Which always elicits an eyeroll from me.
Oh, and hell to the yeah on cutting off Melly. I was done with her in the first graf. (Ah, the perspective of outsiders!)
Oh yeah, I forgot: Aussie might consider picking up the Dickson Baseball Dictionary. Nothing better for what ails you.
CJ–I don’t know if you’re an alcoholic or not, but I am. And I stopped drinking when I was young and my entire social life centered around it (though I’m not gay.) If you want to talk about it to me, you can email me at kristen DOT page DOT kirby AT gmail DOT com anytime. I won’t try to recruit you into anything, but sometimes it helps to just bounce ideas and thoughts off of people who’ve been there.
JC, I highly, highly recommend buying Caroline Knapp’s book Drinking, holing up for the weekend, and reading it cover to cover, with highlighter in hand. Her story is remarkably similar to yours, right down to the list of reasons she can’t stop drinking altogether. (My favorite–“I’ll never be able to get married. How can you get married without Champagne?”) Her descriptions of how drinking slowly and almost casually became the most important thing in her life are vivid and shocking, mostly for how easily it happened.
Your drinking has led to a DUI, which is very, very serious. ( Are you marshalling an arguement about how it’s not that serious, really?) Sar’s advice is spot on, as usual–for now, you have to get a handle on this thing that’s infused your entire life.
Gatorade, Sars is being kind in calling Melly a dick. I’d call her a narcissistic sociopath, myself. Of course, I only have the perspective of your letter, but still. If your letter outlines even a tenth of the fits she’s thrown over the years, you are a way better freind than I could ever be. You can’t make Sarah not want a relationship with her sister, but you can show her this letter. Have her read it, and ask her if Melly is worth going through all this shit AGAIN, at her WEDDING.
Oh, honey, no. . .
JC, I can’t do anything more than second and third and possibly fourth what Sars has said. . .drinking has become a problem in your life — no ifs, ands or buts, it has and if you want to put down all that stuff you carrying around because of drinking, you need to stop drinking and go talk about what happens next. . .preferably with a therapist. It isn’t easy, it (frequently) will not be fun but overall, it’ll be the best thing you can do for yourself.
@attica: I considered mentioning that pretension, too.
JC, I’ll second Sars’ suggestion that you see a therapist, but for a different reason. I had a very good friend who drank rather too much – every night before bed, and quite a bit at social functions, although you would never have guessed she was drunk. It was destroying her liver, and her doctor finally told her she had to quit drinking – and gave her a prescription for a sleep aid and an anti-anxiety med. She lost about 50 pounds and didn’t miss the booze, because in this case self-medicating didn’t work nearly as well as… well, medicating.
JC, I just can’t sugarcoat this-your “reasons” you “can’t” give up drinking are BS. I don’t know what gay world you come from, but if you live in a city of any size whatsoever, there are gay people to meet and gay oriented social organizations that have nothing to do with drinking. Lots and LOTS of gay men (myself included) have absolutely no interest in going to clubs or bars and have tons of fun with or without alcohol-watching movies, hanging out, gay running clubs, the gay chorus, whatever.
If you don’t want to give up your current friends and their primary choice of activity is to go to bars, that’s fine. You can order pop or bottled water and still see your friends. If your friends are going to give you shit about that decision, they are NOT your friends, and you need to make new ones.
Like Sars said, you are doing a lot of barganing, and I think if you get off the sauce for a while and do some self-analysis (maybe with a therapist) you’ll see things more clearly and be able to make a good choice about how much, if any, drinking you should have in your life. You are not in that space now. Take a break, get some distance, and then make the choice.
JC: I will echo what Sars and everyone else has said about the obviousness of your problem. But if you don’t think it’s obvious, I’d suggest that you try some more “controlled” drinking and see how that works out for you.
Personally speaking, I was a binge drinker for years, and thought it was down to the “culture” (I was an expat living in the UK, where the guys I worked with thought it great fun to take out the Yank and get her sozzled as often as possible). But then I noticed that *I* was the one trying to drag people out all the time, and if they only wanted to have one or two drinks, I was very annoyed about it. What was the point of that? And also, what a bunch of losers they were to want to go home and be with their families or go to the gym or have a life instead of sitting in the pub, getting hammered.
What Sars says is correct: Drinking is just a symptom of a much deeper problem. In my life, I have used food, narcissistic men, shopping, alcohol, chewing gum, and even (as a child) ice cubes as ways of avoiding my feelings. Almost anything can be used to do so. What I’ve slowly realized – both the hard way, and in a way that has been amazingly simple (simplicity and ease being two different things) – is that learning to suffer well was the best thing I could ever do for myself. Feel the feelings, but don’t let them take over my life. The fear of the feelings, and the things I did to avoid them, was far, far worse than actually sitting with the anxiety and the sadness and the anger for a little bit.
I’ve been sober for just over two years now, and I’ve never had more fun or been happier or more successful in all areas of my life. But I had to drink a certain number of drinks to get to the point of realizing it was a problem for me, and that number of drinks is different for every person for whom it is a genuine problem.
If you’re not done yet, keep drinking and see what it does for your life. The solution will still be there when you’re done, though you may have to hurt or kill yourself (or someone else) before you are. The choice is yours.
@JC – please please please do something about your drinking problem before it completely f’s up your life. I agree with Sars, the bargaining is what’s scary about your letter. And, I also have to add, because I have never understood this – why is it so hard for people to decline to drink in social situations? I am a near teetotaller (alcoholic family + addictive tendencies + frequently piloting a motorcycle = desire to steer clear) and I NEVER get pressured to drink. Seriously, it’s a non-issue. Everyone else has wine/beer/margarita, I have water or seltzer and no one even notices, or if they notice they don’t comment. Maybe I just have the most awesome friends ever, but seriously, if people are pressuring you to drink, you have the wrong friends, and they can become an excuse to not deal with your drinking issues.
Read Carolyn Knapp’s book, then prepare to get completely depressed when you learn of the postscript.
@ Gatorade – You say: “On the one hand, her sense of entitlement and astonishing selfishness is astounding. On the other hand, she can be the most remarkably kind, charming, caring person.”
Try reframing it: She is astoundingly selfish, entitled and cruel. When that doesn’t work, she reverts to charm and ‘kindness’ to keep people engaged and to keep the drama going.
Consider that the ‘good’ traits aren’t really who she is, they are manipulations. A truly kind person would not behave the way she does. It’s an old trick, and it is amazingly effective, which is why people like Melly keep using it, but it’s still just a trick.
And yeah, I wanted to hit her with the brick after the first few sentences.
Oh, and JC. As a motorcycle rider (and sometimes road bike rider), if I am out on riding and your irresponsible drunk ass runs into me and kills me, I am going to come back and haunt you forever, and my living friends will make your life a hell. Drunk driving is just inexcusable.
“Part of me wants to get in my car, drive the 300 miles to Melly, and smack her in the face with a brick.” Let’s hit her with attica’s “Dickson Baseball Dictionary” too, that thing looks HUGE. Jeebers, what a twunt Melly is. I don’t care if she’s beautiful & kind to strangers, she is a HORRIBLE friend. I had one like that and I am SO much happier now that she’s dumped me. Is Melly the baby of the family? Maybe a lot younger than the sibs? Just curious…
*token Astros-related rending of clothing, tearing of hair, etc.*
And aussie, after you have the basics, you might want to try Watching Baseball Smarter, by Zack Hample. It’s pretty amusing, and isn’t at all advanced.
JC, from personal experience both with myself and friends I think some of your anxiety comes from worrying what will happen when you tell your friends you aren’t drinking. It seems scary- like it’ll be this huge, after-school-special moment with confrontations and peer pressure and all that other dramatic stuff. Honestly, that isn’t going to happen. I’ve said to my crew, “Hey guys, just so you know I’m laying off the booze for about three months,” and I’ve had friends say the same to me. There are always a few concerned questions and all, but for the most part I think you’ll find your real friends are very supportive and no one will try to talk you out of the decision.
It is a little weird at first, you’ll spend time in coffee shops because you can’t think of where else to go, but pretty soon drinking Diet Coke at the bar will seem normal and amazingly you’ll probably start to come up with all kinds of other things to do with folks that you never thought of before because heading down to the bar was always the default.
What I’m trying to say is that it isn’t going to be as hard socially as you think it’s going to be. Anyone who is any kind of real friend will help, not hinder, you in this. A good portion of my sober friends are gay and none of them have had any kind of problem, if anything the community seems to be even more supportive.
But you do need to gat a handle on this. If you want to start with “No booze for six months, then reassess,” that’s great. If you can afford therapy, even better. But look out for yourself and really listen to yourself and recruit help, whether professional or personal. Good luck to you.
Gatorade, I second what Sars says. As much as she can be kind when she wants to she isn’t a real friend and she does this, as so many other people do, because she feeds on the drama and loves the attention. Don’t give it to her anymore. As for Sarah, it’s tough when family doesn’t turn out the way you want to but, well, thems the breaks sometimes. Not to make light of how hard it is to accept that, but yeah, you don’t cancel your wedding because your sister is an asshat. You tell her she can come or not and it’s up to her but if she comes you expect her to behave and let the chips fall. If she wants to end up alone because she shoved all her friends and family onto her stupid “shit list” that’s her decision and she has to live with the consequences.
Melly’s friend: What Sars said. But also…has Melly ever had any therapy? Because while she sounds like a first class a-hole, she also sounds…remarkably paranoid. Like, persecution complex to a mentally unstable degree. Given what you’ve said of her childhood, whether or not she truly bore the brunt of the mess, girlfriend does not sound like she’s quite mentally all there. I would say that you gently suggest seeking help to her, but as that would probably just get you cut off as well…what Sars said.
JC I’m no expert on alcholism, but I did listen to Dr Drew Live nearly every day (I still miss that medical famewhore’s show) and therefore like to pretend that I am.
He always said that binge drinkers are the hardest people to convince that they have a drinking problem. Since they can go some time without drinking, they think they’ve got it under control, but the fact is, if it’s impacting your life, which hello, drink-driving, then it’s a problem.
And don’t just stop drinking and become a dry alcholic, you need to treat the cause, not the symptoms.
Gatorade:
Melly is “remarkably kind, charming, [and] caring” because it makes people like her. She is “the first person to jump in to help a stranger” because she looks good doing it. She provides emotional support to people because it ties them closer to her. And do I need to tell you that “deeply conflicted about her looks” means “fishing for compliments”?
There is no contradiction in her behavior. It’s all about her, and it always has been: her rules of engagement, her perception of reality, her emotional control. She’s spent years telling you all that she doesn’t give a rat’s ass about anyone but herself, and yet you still somehow sound proud that you’ve never gone on her “shit list” — as if being friends with someone who has a “shit list” is a prize.
You’ve done about all you can do for Sarah right now, but I don’t think you’ve given up Melly completely — and you should. Not because she’s fucking with her sister’s wedding, but because she’s a waste and she will always, always disappoint you. I’m not sure you even owe her civility, much less warmth.
@JC: I’m gay, and my gay social circle includes not only big-deal drinkers but big-deal recreational drug users as well. I don’t do either. And you know what? No one gives a shit. I still go to bars and clubs, and I stay out as late as the others; I still dance like a fool – though being sober I’m maybe more conscious of it, heh; I still have a great time, AND I don’t spend the next day or three recovering. Heaps cheaper too, which is handy with the GFC and all. My friends all know I don’t drink or take drugs, and they’re simply not bothered because – and this is the important bit – *I* don’t make a big deal out of it: I don’t explain, I don’t make a fuss. Because I don’t treat it like something scary or weird, no one else does either.
I don’t want this to sound like an afterschool special, and I’m not saying that it won’t be difficult to keep your current social patterns and avoid the alcohol; at first you might find it easier to avoid those situations, until you’re more comfortable with not drinking. But it is absolutely possible to go to bars and clubs and be sober and enjoy yourself. Not just possible, but easy.
If you’re concerned about what to tell people, you could just say that you’re trying to get healthier. In my experience, folks will go along with what you tell them if you do it without a fuss. You don’t need to make excuses because there’s nothing to excuse, and it’s not a lie: you are trying to get healthier. But I agree with Sars, a DUI ain’t nothin’ to fuck with, and you need to get this sorted while it’s something you can sort. Good luck! I’ll raise a lemon-lime-and-bitters to you the next time I’m out.
All I got out of the Melly story was “People still want this selfish bitch in their lives? Really?” The fact that she’s kind to strangers is irrelevant if she actively makes miserable the lives of her friends and family, which she does, and which she loves doing. She thrives on the attention all this drama brings her, and any goodwill I had for her (and there was … none, really) went out the window when she refused to acknowledge her sister’s LIFE-THREATENING ILLNESS. Jesus Christ. And I’m wondering what their parents think of this? My brother and I are close, but if we were feuding and he (God forbid) got an illness and I put the feud ahead of that, my parents would cut me dead. Well, they’d rip me a new one and THEN cut me dead.
I don’t see an upside to knowing Melly, and I think you should encourage Sarah to plan the wedding, and her life afterward, without her unless and until she learns to act like a human being.
Gatorade, it sounds like Melly might have borderline personality disorder – the close relationships that get completely cut off b/c of a perceived transgression is a hallmark of BPD.
If JC is in a big city, I guarantee that AA will have meetings just for gay men, or gay men and lesbians. As a person in 12 step recovery, I have learned, among other things, that stopping is the opposite of quitting. Many alcoholics can and do stop drinking for periods of time, but quitting drinking requires going much deeper than putting down the alcohol.
oh for FSMsake, my childhood sucked too, but I didn’t ABANDON my siblings over it.
Gatorade, Mellie is an asshole. Anyone,ever who says “I won’t come to your wedding if XXX is there!”, doesn’t deserve an invite, your friendship, or frankly, the steam from your piss.
Wow. This Melly chick is an entitled bitch. The two things that tell me everything I need to know about her: that she thinks whatever-the-hell happened is worse than a life-threatening illness, and that she basically requires years of begging before she deigns to speak to people. I don’t know what’s sadder: that there are people out there who think that highly of themselves, or that there are people out there willing to put up with that kind of bullshit.
My uncle, the youngest of three children born in the early sixties, would not let petty things go. Tiny things. My mom, the middle child, was a rock-and-roll liberal in a family of Texan Baptists. He held that against her (the rock thing). He also held it against her that my father almost beat her to death and caused a miscarriage. He held it against her that she didn’t go to college until she was in her mid-20s (even though he had to drop out of uni because of DUI’s, and almost killed someone during the last one). Mother? Always tried to reach out to him. Everyone did. But eventually, he shunned everyone. Did not visit his father during the last five years of his life (not even when he had to have a transplant or during the year he spent mostly in the hospital). He did not come home for his father’s funeral. He did not come home to visit his mother and comfort her when her firstborn, his oldest brother, commited suicide. He did not attend his own mother’s funeral last year. See, we got this letter that basically said mom’s actions were embarrassing for him and he felt, because her apologies “were not genuine”, that we did not understand what family really was so we could not be a part of his family. This upset my mother (after all, he’s her only surviving relative other than us).
If you made it through this whole thing I should send YOU a prize, tell me: would you encourage my mother to try, try again? No. Because he is a fucktard. Shared history, shared blood, aren’t good enough reasons to roll with someone like that. It’s great, you two used to be buddies. Very nice. But be honest, you already know the answer to your question, that’s why you asked it. You know she’s an emotionally manipulative selfish cow who feeds on your begging and pleading because it tells her she’s special. She’s so damn special she can treat a sibling suffering a life-threatening illness like scum and you know what? You’ll all beg her forgiveness.
Don’t call her anymore. Don’t even call her to tell her you’re writing her off. If she wants to have a relationship with you guys then that has to be her decision. You can’t make her be a better person. Plan the wedding, have the wedding. If she wants to attend then she can call her sister and ask if it’s okay and aplogize for her tacky and cruel behaviour. She can apologize to all of you for her sense of entitlement, and if she genuinely cares about you guys and your history/relationship then that it exactly what she will do.
She has to make all the moves her. Ignore her ass until she does.
TO JC –
“What I wish could happen ideally is that I get help with come strategies to just control when and how much I allow myself to drink, ”
you would be amazed at how many people start going to AA hoping they will be taught “how to drink properly.” So you would find many people who understanding your thinking there, if you want to try it.
I cannot get past the idea that anyone would cancel their wedding as a result of someone else’s anger over who was invited to be in the wedding and who wasn’t. That’s just inconceivable to me and suggests that Melly and Sarah BOTH have problems. Different problems, but they both have problems. Everybody’s giving you the right advice. A guy once told me that even complete assholes are only assholes about 25 percent of the time; that’s how they get by in life. (And he would know.) If you can’t give a damn about anybody else when it really counts, then you can’t have close relationships, and you have to be treated as toxic. Still loved, perhaps, but toxic.
As for how much you loved Melly yourself, it is one of my firmest convictions that you do not meet people in a vacuum; you experience them as the person they are in that particular moment. Someone who is a right friend for you in one moment may not be a right friend for you in another, and it doesn’t invalidate your original friendship to admit that you have to end it for your own sanity.
As for the drinking, JC…if you’re genuinely arguing that you CAN’T stop drinking entirely, then you’re sort of proving that you have a dependency issue. If what you’re arguing is not that you can’t, but that you really, really don’t want to, my question is: How badly do you not want to get another DUI?
You may very well be someone who can drink moderately. But I agree with people who have said, “Stop entirely until you feel like you understand what’s going on, and then see what you think.” And if doing that terrifies you to the point where you can’t do it, then that is your answer. I am sympathetic to your social concerns. It can legitimately be a drag to be the one person who isn’t drinking, depending on how much your friends drink. I don’t blame you for the feeling, but it’s like…you gotta do what you gotta do, and you gotta not get another DUI. When multiple people who care about you are telling you that you drink too much, that’s worth listening to. They have little motive to lie.
The description of Melly screams Personality Disorder to me. Either Borderline or Narcissistic.
All I can say, either way, is: Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Set them, maintain them, encourage others to set them and support others when they maintain them. Learn to live with being cut off. If it’s permanent, maybe for the best. If they come back, let them in if you like, but don’t let yourself be manipulated. Prepare to be cut off again. It’s an endless cycle.
“Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder” is a GREAT book to read when you have a Melly in your life. Whether or not ~your~ Melly (or Gatorade’s Melly) has actually received an official diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder. I highly recommend this book, it gives concrete strategies for maintaining your own center, your own boundaries, your own sense of self, when dealing with someone who behaves like Melly does. Good luck. It’s so hard to have toxic, manipulative, wedge-driving, destructive, you’re-either-with-me-or-against-me people in your life. My mother in law has BPD. Melly sounds a lot like her. I wish Gatorade and Sarah all the luck in the world. It ain’t easy.
@Jackie D : “The fear of the feelings, and the things I did to avoid them, was far, far worse than actually sitting with the anxiety and the sadness and the anger for a little bit.”
How very well put! It’s something I have tried to convey – never so elegantly as you did it that one sentence – to many people I know. I went through a tough childhood with parents who had abuse/addiction issues with both prescription drugs and alcohol, and it took me a long time to find my way to a place where a life of chaos (sort of like hangin’ with Melly, there!) was not my “normal.” But I did it, and found the process just as you described. I wish other people could get past the fear of their feelings, and realize that the result of letting themselves truly feel them – without any kind of anesthetic (drink, shopping, busyness, you-name-it) will be a vastly better and more honest life. When people comment that I am “brave” or “strong” for having done the work to get better, I simply say that I could not bear the pain of living in chaos anymore. The pain of my messed-up life was stronger than the fear of my demons. A phrase that comes to mind: The only way out is through.
Facing my demons took their power away. I wish that for everyone, including you, JC. No matter how you need to do it, take some steps to get through.
Geeze, I’ve never even met Melly, but I’m disowning her because her drama just cost me 5 minutes of my life which I will never get back. I could never have written that letter without realizing two paragraphs in that Melly isn’t worth it.
And JC, you are middle-aged with a family history of alcoholism; a self acknowledged habit of binge drinking; friends who say you have a problem, a DUI arrest, and a fear that your social life will suffer if you stop drinking. Yes, 100% alcohol abstinence should be your goal. There is life without alcohol and it can even be really fun!
Aussie,
A ground rule double is like a four in cricket, while a home run is a six. One innings in cricket is like half a baseball inning (except much, much longer!).
@ JC, if you do decide to quit alcohol now or at any time in the future, and AA doesn’t appeal, Rational Recovery (whose theory is explained in full, free at http://www.rational.org/) offer an alternative to the 12 step movement.
Their theories also have an alternative explanation of addiction to the one AA offers, and might be helpful even if you choose to cut back without going sober. I’m not connected with them in any way, and I drink myself occasionally, so it’s just fyi.
Sars’s advice is always great in The Vine, but I also really love reading what the rest of you have to say. I have nothing to contribute that hasn’t already been said, but I would just like to say that my girl Jackie D is well worth listening to – she’s a superstar with a fabulous life, and it’s all her own work, and all because she’s had the guts to deal with anything that wasn’t great in her life.
Hey, we’re all agreed, Melly is an asshole of the first degree-perhaps even with a mental disorder. But, Gatorade’s question is how to advise Sarah to deal with Melly, not really whether to hit Melly in the head with a brick. (For the record that reminds me of a Steel Magnolias line-“Was she hurt?” “I doubt it-she got hit in the head!”)
Gatorade, you know Sarah best, so you should know which tactic will work for her. Here’s a couple of ideas:
1) Suggest to Sarah what everyone else has said about Melly having BPD and give her the book ChrEliz recommended. Read it yourself while your at it. That might give Sarah both a wake up call on what’s really going on with Melly and the coping strategies she needs.
2) Remind Sarah that she is giving Melly exactly what she wants by begging her to come. She wants to create drama, she wants attention, she wants Sarah crawling, begging forgiveness, and asking who she can and can’t invite to her WEDDING. Get Sarah angry about that-angry enough to say Fuck her and just write her off.
3) A variation of the same speech in #2, but spin it that, if Sarah stops feeding the drama and just ignores Melly and plans the wedding without her, she’ll probably come back on her own, because she needs attention.
4) Remind her, ad nasueum, that her wedding is HER day and she has to take care of herself. She’s been through family hell, medical hell, job hell, and she’s finally getting a little piece of happiness out of the universe. She needs to enjoy it because she FUCKING deserves it, and if Melly doesn’t want to share in it, well, that’s her loss.
@JC – Dude, I know where you’re coming from. Alcoholism runs in my family (I’m all Irish, and that damn stereotype came from somewhere), and I’ve felt it creeping up on me numerous times. I’m also part of the gay community, and my first introduction to it was bars and clubs. But every time I’ve felt myself becoming dependant on alcohol, I’ve managed to nip it in the butt before it overtook my life. What have I done to curb it? I learned to ENJOY alcohol. I don’t drink to get drunk anymore – I left that behind when I graduated college and stopped playing rugby. Now, I drink because I enjoy it. I go to a bar for a few hours and have two or three beers. They’re expensive, maybe, but they taste DAMN good and I can appreciate the complexity that makes up the brew. And I don’t hurt for three days afterwards. It took me a while to be able to do that – to change my outlook on alcohol from “need to get sh!tfaced NOW!” to “Wow, that is a fantastic beer. Let me enjoy this pint for an hour”. But now that I have I am much healthier, both physically and mentally.
A lot of readers here are probably going to disagree with what I wrote above, and let me clarify that I DO NOT recommend this course of action for anyone who is an out and out alcoholic. I’ve seen firsthand the havoc that alcoholism can wreck on families. But for someone who may not have developed full-on alcoholism, this is how I (and my father, actually) personally staved off the problem.
My mother-in-law responded to being told we were engaged and has set a date, “You are no son of mine if you marry her! I won’t dignify this by attending it!”
My then-fiance said, “I’m sorry you feel that way. If you change your mind, you will be welcome to attend.” He then refused to engage in any discussion about here reasons, how he was a horrible son, or anything else. He made sure that they had all the information they needed if they decided to attend, but absolutely did not allow himself to be hooked into her drama about it.
She attended the wedding, very subdued.
It’s 20 years later, and that’s one of the reasons I’m so grateful I married such a sane person. His mother has problems, and they’ve echoed through his life, but when push came to shove, he refused to be the other half of her drama machine.
Tell Sarah to give Melly a low-key regretful response, and then move on with planning the wedding. Melly may or may not come, but the powerful feelings setting that boundary and doing it civilly will create will last far past the wedding day.
@Gatorade: I think others have come up with some great thoughts here on Melly and her behavioral cycle.
My family member, friends and I have all dealt in some way with people who exhibit some similar patterns. What it all comes down to, in a nutshell, is this:
You can love these people all you want to. But if you let them, they will control your life. The best thing to do is love them from a distance.
I can understand Sarah’s desire not to “lose” her sister again. Sarah sounds like a very caring and kind person. She’s also been through hell in more ways than one. But I think you were absolutely right in telling her to put a deadline on it and then plan her wedding. I hope you continue to maintain that.
Melly is responsible for her own life and her own decisions. No one can change that, and by allowing her drama to dictate their actions, people are basically giving her the attention and control that she wants.
Sarah has the right to enjoy her life and have a wonderful, wonderful wedding. I wish you both all the best.
Hey, I had a Melly once too. Breaking off my friendship with her was difficult at the time, but it was one of the best decisions I ever made. It also helped one of our other close friends let go of her and her drama (eventually), and his life also got easier almost immediately. Think of it this way: now Sarah’s wedding can be not only a celebration of her marriage, but a bonding event for everyone who just wised up and kicked that nutbar to the curb.
The red font has been replaced with blue font on this page. It is not as tomatoish. This actually makes me a little bit sad.
Gatorade- Weddings are supposed to be fun. I would tell Sarah to enjoy every second of her wedding and forget about Mellie and her control issues/emotional problems until *after* the honeymoon (at least). No Funkillers allowed at weddings!
JC- I saw this on a card once: “If you’re going through Hell, keep going.” I applaud you for seeking help, and it’s out there for the taking and you are taking the first step to figuring things out for yourself. Good luck.
@Nilda: Yeah, what the hell? I think it’s an upgrade issue; I’ll investigate.
JC,
I agree you should try therapy. You might also want to ask your doctor about some of the new anti-addiction medications out there. CNN had an article about it just the other day. I know people in AA and I also know people who can’t stand that sort of thing. Be open to all your options for getting help. Good luck!
The link (via tinyurl): http://tinyurl.com/d2ouc4
Gatorade, I know a guy who is almost exactly the same. One of the most commonly used phrases of his, when discussing past friendships, is “they turned their back on him.”
For years, my friends bent over backward trying to accommodate his needs. Making sure he wasn’t a third wheel, trying to get him into therapy, hiding the booze when he felt down, watching him cry, listening to him complain and moan and wretch over and over. And I echo a lot of your sentiments re: Melly – he could be fun and a great friend, clever and protective and creative. But he could also be the world’s biggest asshat.
About two years ago I was done trying to fix his woes, and realized the simple truth: he’s an abusive person. I know that’s a strong word to use, and implies a lot more, but it’s the truth. And I can see it in Melly, as well. She is an emotionally abusive person, and she’s not going to change. The way she acts are tactics and, for her, solid ways to ensure attention and acknowledgment. And you and Sarah both need to decide how much control you’re going to let an abusive person have in your life.
Gatorade, I think pretty much everyone who has commented can say that they’ve either been friends with, or at least encountered, a Melly so we really do feel for you.
But seriously, you’re being treated poorly here. A friend is not someone who holds grudges. A friend is not someone who makes you feel bad. A friend is not someone who denies support and comfort until they get what they want from you. A friend is not someone who makes you feel like they are doing you a favour by being friends with you.
I know you’ve said that her childhood was hard, but at some point, people are responsible for their own behaviour. This Melly person’s dramatics have already been given way too much attention. After years of this, she is secretly thrilled that she can cause this much turmoil in the lives of others. It verifies to her how totally important she is.
And you know what? Judith Light she ain’t, so tell her she’s not the star of her own personal Lifetime movie and to cut the crap. You all love her and are happy to have mature adult relationships with her, but in the meantime, you’re not willing to play her childish games anymore.
Anyway, whatever you decide to do, good luck and I hope things get better soon. :)
@Lamoshe, your post was great, and reminds me of a terrific Geneen Roth quote: “No feeling, once felt, ever lasted forever–or even six months.”
She was writing about the pain of compulsive eating, but the principle’s the same. Whatever JC’s covering up with drinking can’t be as bad as the mess he’s making of his life. Even if it’s something horrible like abuse, actually finding a safe way to feel the feelings has got to be better than this.
Gatorade –
I have been in a similar position as Sarah’s, without the wedding part – 2 estranged siblings, one life-threatening illness (mine). One of my brothers made a huge effort to mend our fences. The other, who lives about a mile from me and works in the ER where I was diagnosed [e.g. there is no way he didn’t know within 24 hours] has not.
I would tell Sarah to remain open to overtures from Melly if she ever gets over herself, but not to give up her dreams to please a sister who really doesn’t exist. That relationship, that love she thinks she’ll get from Melly? It isn’t real. Melly does not love her. Melly will never love her. It’s really hard, but Sarah needs to focus on the people who do, and value those relationships; the people who are there for you when everything is falling apart are the ones worth keeping.
JC,
I was a small contributor to some research about the interrelationship of drinking and the gay/lesbian community a few years ago. One of the things we heard from the participants was that when they were first coming out, the only place they knew to meet other gay people was the local gay bar/club, and this was a huge contribution to their drinking (which was a problem for some of them and not for others, just like heterosexuals who go to the same type of venues). Whatever else you decide, you may want to spend some time finding other places to meet people–there’s a lot of gay friendly or gay focused activities today that aren’t centered around bars, in a way that didn’t exist a decade ago.
Good luck!
For JC-
I’m coming up on a year sober myself. I’m not gonna say it’s been easy. I personally was unable to cut back, not for not trying. One just turned into 3, with all the rationalizations in the world that made it ok at the time. But I just couldn’t do it anymore. I was sick of feeling guilty about it ALL the TIME. I knew I had more purpose in me somewhere…and it has amazed me what I’ve been able to accomplish this past year. I got help for my depression, not without trying a few different things, but I found something! And I think it will surprise you, or at least it did me, the amount of people who don’t drink…once you start to notice. And for so many reasons.
I do have one friend in particular that I don’t see much anymore just because going to her house and watching her husband and her smoke pot and drink doesn’t sound appealing…but the closeness with my other friends has grown amazingly. They have been super supportive and totally willing to do things other than hang out at bars with me. Which really, has been way more fun!
I wish you the best of luck. If it helps, while I do have lots of family members in AA, I personally am taking the talk it out therapy approach, and doing great. There are support systems out there. Hugs!
For Aussie, I second Barb’s suggestion of Zack Hample’s book (find it here: http://tinyurl.com/c4hkez) – I’m a long time baseball fan, and know a lot about it, but even I learned stuff from this book. It’s totally accessible, and a quick, interesting, funny read.
@Karen: I’ve never heard anyone use ‘for FSM’s sake’ before, and I’m a little in love with you now. A real day brightener.
@JC – I drink a LOT socially, and 3 of my 4 grandparents were alcoholics. We’re talking “my dad made martinis as a 6 year old and had to go to the hospital” kind of serious drinking parents. So, I definitely have the history. I have found that rules work for me / keep it under control.
My rules are really simple – no alcohol in the house, and if I drive myself somewhere, I make sure I’ll have a place to sleep or can get a ride. I never drive until I’m certain I’m completely sober. It has its inconveniences, but (you know this now) the consequences of getting a DUI are too great. I also limit myself to 4 shots worth of drinks, but that’s a harder rule to stick to because once you’re “drunk,” for me, it tends to go out the window. I always tell the people I’m with that I have a limit and to please check in with me to make sure I’m doing okay.
What is a little concerning, though, is you don’t seem convinced that you can control yourself when it comes to these rules. If you can’t, then you can’t drink at all. It’s really that simple. But, if you can stick to them, it might mean not drinking on some outings, not attending some outings, or switching to water earlier in the night.
Probably, the DUI will be an incentive for you to make these changes. They are small, and as long as you stick to them, they will keep it under control.