Pronunciation II: Home Sweet Wilkes-Barre Or Nogales
Submitted by Sarah D. Bunting on February 29, 2008 – 10:40 AM253 Comments
My apologies to central and western PA, but for years, I thought they were two different towns: Wilkes-Barre, pronounced “Wilks Bar,” and “Wilkesbury,” like the Traveling Wilburys.
And if someone could please remind me how “Nogales” is pronounced, I’d appreciate it.
My PA family members always said “LANK-uh-ster.” Newark, NJ is “Noork”; Newark, DE is “New Ark.”
Anyone here from the Vincennes, IN area? How do you pronounce “Vincennes”?
Share!
Tags: our friend English
In Michigan, there’s a Milan that’s pronounced “my lawn.”
In Eastern Colorado there’s a town called Arriba. The locals pronounce it “AIR-i-buh; visitors invariably call it “Uh-REE-ba”.
I love this stuff.
I’ve had native Marylanders ask me (a native mid-westerner) ask me to pronounce the name of the state where one would find the city of Las Vegas. The question, apparently, is Ne-VA-duh (with a short “a”) or Ne-VAH-duh (with a long “a.”)
Of course, then there’s the town in Missouri that’s called Ne-VAY-duh, with a long “a.”
Beats me.
/wave at JJ. Hey, neighbor.
There’s also Cadiz, OH (CAY-diss), LANK-astr (you have to swallow the last half) and then the great test of the Clevo west sider vs. the east sider…Chagrin Falls…is it SHA-grin (west) or sha-GRIN (east) and Wooster is WUH-ster.
Scio –> SI-oh
Gnaddenhutten — I don’t think anyone knows
We also have a Berlin (BURR-ln — again, swallow the last half)
But we pronounce Athens like you’d expect, and not like they do in Kentucky…AY-thens.
@sam: so there’s the schuylkill river and expressway in PA, but i used to live in Schuylerville, NY – sky-ler-ville. Makes my head hurt. It’s even the same language! Freakin’ Dutch….
The most confusing placenames, imho, are those that came from Native American origins, through early Dutch settlers, and are still baffling the visitors even if their English is excellent. I still remember the hilarity in my family every time we made a summer visit from our home in Long Island, NY (“lawn GUY-lind”) to family in theTroy area upstate. We’d see signs for a nearby fair, which is still a very popular county-agricultural-type event: “Welcome to the Schagticoke Fair”. To the locals, that’s “Scat-uh-coke” but it used to tangle us up in knots. Now that I live upstate myself, I meet people who can’t figure out downstate placenames like Ronkonkoma (hard to know where to stop) or Islip (EYE-slip, not IISS-lip!).
Yeah… New Orleans natives suffer from the most extraordinary case of mispronunciation I’ve ever seen. Not only do the old-timey New Orleanians say things like “MY-nezz” (for “mayonaise”), but the locals pronounce the street named “Calliope” as “CALL-ee-ope”, “Dante” as “dan-TEE”, “Milan” as “MY-lin”, and “Chartres” as “CHAR-ters” (thus providing the same problem for anyone who has even a tidbit of French… which is totally bizarre, considering the French origination of this Whole Freakin’ State… hello!?? New ORLEANS?!?)
Old-timey Uptown Natives also have this weird Southern/New York accent combination thing where they say “hoss” (instead of “horse”) and “cawn” instead of “corn”… and someone I know (seriously. hee.) says “TACK-oh” instead of “taco”. Where do these people GET these things?!?
(In a personal note, my mother-in-law, back when she was just my future mother-in-law, made a comment about how “ah-TIS-tic” I was… which totally made me think she had called me “AUtistic” instead of “ARtistic” because in New Orleans, you add “r’s” where they aren’t and you leave them out of where they are.)
Wilkes-Barre can be pronounced a number of ways, but Wilkes-Bar is a new one to me. I always heard it Wilkes-Bear or Wilkes-Bury. My grandparents lived in Ashley…kind of a depressing place, but a lot of cool place names around. Took me years to realize that the ‘Sansooey parkway’ was actually spelled “Sans Souci.” heh.
“Don’t even get me started on the regional pronunciations of Louisville, KY…”
…”Loo-vul”?
AB Chao made me stand there and repeat the word “Louisiana” until she was satisfied with my rendering. “I’m from New York, they’ll forgive me.” “That isn’t the point. Do it again.” “Fine. ‘Lou-zee-anna.'” “Close enough, Yankee.”
Other things my Yankee ass has gotten yelled at for (not by AB, though):
– pronouncing “Appalachian” “App-uh-lay-chee-an” instead of “App-uh-latchin”
– “New Oar-leenz” (sorry; I don’t do that anymore)
– “Ren-suh-layer” (apparently it’s “Ren-suh-leer” — noted)
– “It’s ‘Keh-bec,’ not ‘Kwuh-bec.'” “I’m from New Jersey.” “Tough. ‘Keh-bec.'”
– and the infamous Des Plaines, which I get wrong EVERY TIME so somebody needs to help a girl out
I can, however, mimic a Southern Ontario accent almost perfectly. Judicious use of “Tronno” can fool even a native.
There’s a beautiful lake in northern Idaho called Pend Oreille. Someone must have gotten tired of correcting people who kept calling it “pend oriole,” because a town on its shores gave up and spelled itself “Ponderay.” At least it sounds right when spoken.
While I’m up: “Creve Coeur”? Anyone?
And why is “Sepulveda” “Se-PUL-vuh-duh” and not “Sep-ull-VAY-duh”?
I grew up in northeast PA, and Wilkes-Barre was always pronounced Wilks-Barry (as in, the male name). I never heard it pronounced Wilkes-Berry. Wilkes rhymes with milk, officially, but a lot of times, I heard it pronounced more like Wool-ks.
I did occasionally hear Wilkes-Bare, but it seemed to be understood that that was a slangy pronounciation, and not the proper, official name of the town.
Back to Oregon, we have about 10 different names between here and Canada to confuse people. The river that runs through Portland is the Willamette (will-LAM-ette, and the middle has to be pronounced like “the criminal is on the lam). We tend to correct people by saying “Willamette, dammit!”
There’s also Couch Street, which is pronounced Cooch, the city of Clatskanie, which I believe Bill Clinton mispronounced and was corrected. It’s Clat-ska-NY. And lastly, there’s the lovely city of Sequim, WA, pronounced Squim.
While I’m up, I’ve driven through Vur-SAILS, Kentucky more than once and I wince every time. Argh.
@sarah: that city in Kentucky is “LEW-vill”, right?
I’m originally from Southern MD (well, originally originally from Union County, NJ [right by the Bayway Refinery], but in MD since I was 4), so my accent is somewhere between ‘BAWL-more, MURR-len’ and Richmond, VA.
Genny, I think I can beat even that bit of Maryland pronunciation with this gem from Virginia: Taliaferro (of THE Taliaferro Family, mind you) = Tolliver. If you ask for Tal-ee-ah-ferr-oh no one will know what you’re talking about…or how to get there.
Oh, and Gloucester? It’s GLOSS-ter. We don’t want to hear anything about Glouw-ches-ter.
(Virginia! Pretending to preserve British mispronunciations since 1607!)
One that’s sure to trip up newcomers: Prescott, AZ (pronounced PRESS-kit).
Aptos (APP-toss), CA and Tigard (TIE-gurd) and Champoeg (sham-POO-ee), OR are some other oft-mispronounced place names that come to mind. The Pacific Northwest has many American Indian-based names that no one gets right on the first try – examples would be Clatskanie (CLAT-skuh-nye) and Puyallup (pyew-ALL-up).
If it helps any, in Indiana, we can tell what part of the state you are from by how you say it:
If you say you are from “v-EYE-go” county and “ter HOTE”, those of us in central Indiana know you are *actually* from “v-EE-go” county and “TERRA hote.”
If you say you are from “chi-KAH-go area” we know you are actually from “shi-KAW-go”
And if you say you are from “loo-vul”, we know you are really from “loo-uh-ville.”
If you grew up in “BE-ferd” we know you mean “BED-ford.”
And if you ever say you are from “in-an-A-polis” we know you weren’t really born anywhere near “indian-AP-olis.”
But regardless, EVERYONE around here call sit “note-er DAIM.”
From my home state of South Dakota:
Pierre–Named after a french guy, but pronounced like the short thing you take a long walk off.
but, Belle Fourche–pronounced as though you were French
and my favorite, Lead–most people pronounce it “led” but it’s actually “leed.” It’s a gold mining town, named for the lead vein that “leads” you to the gold ore.
And then I moved to Chicago, where the streets have different pronunciations based on what part of the city you live in, apparently (Roosevelt, Leavitt). I just mumble now. :)
Where does the “Induh-napolis” pronunciation come from? I don’t think any Hoosiers say it like that, but I’ve heard it many times.
Another Pittsburgher weighing in here. Wilkes-Barre has always confused me; I’ve heard it pronounced both ways. BUT there is a bar in my neighborhood called “Wilk’s Bar,” and because that’s kind of awesome, I prefer to pronounce it that way.
@Genny: Believe me, it took me a long time to relegate “TAWNYtown” and the signs for Taneytown to the same spot in my brain.
Further, someone actually yelled at me about McLean. It’s MICKLAYN! HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY NOT KNOW! Between that and the number of times I got pulled over by sheriffs down there for speeding (any speeding at all – it doesn’t have to be gratuitous) the first year I lived in Maryland, I’ve developed a healthy dislike for Virginia.
Oh! And as an Oregon native I somehow almost forgot…
It’s ORE-gun! ORE-gun!!!!!
NOT Oar-uh-GAWN.
Seriously, people. We will hurt you.
*Smash* you typed “almost like it’s a citywide competition to disprove the reputation” of NYC. I think there may be. :)
When I moved up north, I saw there was a town called Worcester. How was a southerner like myself supposed to know it’s pronounced “Wuster” and not “Wor-chester?”
Another thing I will never live down: Reading directions the first time I was in San Francisco: “ake a left onto the freeway that says La Juh-olla.” Instead of La Holla.
@Laura – I don’t know what Texans you’ve been talking to, but I’ve always heard it Mon-taig County. (And you say the “County” part right after) Growing up in tornado alley, you get to hear the weathermen talk about Montague County a LOT. Oh, and Santa Anna in central Texas? Yeah, that’s SantyAnny. And then there’s Amarill-uh and Missou-ruh…
As for Houston? It’s named after a dude, not really any other way to pronounce it :)
Somewhat related to all of this is my undying love of “Friday Night Lights” and how they are unbelievably accurate with the accents. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy every time I watch it.
To add to Marion’s Bourbonnais post, Illinois also has a town called Cairo–pronounced “KAY-row.”
@solaana:
That’s like Worcester, MA…
Evidently it’s WUH-stah. Although MA pronunciation is weird. Peabody should be pee-BAH-dee like on Rocky & Bullwinkle, and instead is PEE-boh-dy. Or Woburn, pronounced WOO-burn. My personal favorite is the Lechmere station, which is actually LETCH-meer. It makes me feel like creepy old guys will leer at me there.
How about Notre Dame?
Note-er-dame = the university in South Bend, IN.
Note-re-dahm = the two private girl’s high schools in the San Francisco Bay Area, or the cathedral in France.
I’m from SF, my mother is from Mishawaka, IN (mish-ah-wah-kah), my father grew up in Berkeley, CA (berk-ley), and I’ve been told that I sound Canadian…by Candians.
And why is “Sepulveda” “Se-PUL-vuh-duh” and not “Sep-ull-VAY-duh”?
Every Spanish place name in Los Angeles is mispronounced. This drove me crazy for years but I have gotten used to it. Sort of. I suspect the practice is intentional, like the English mispronouncing every French word they use.
Here in Western NC, we’ve got “Leicester”, pronounced “lester”. I went to college near Amherst, MA, and we certainly learned fast that the “h” is silent!
Kerry, if it’s based on the original garment (gown) of the same name, it would be MAN-tu-a. Or even if it was based on the Italian town where one goes to wive it wealthily.
As it’s the glorious Garden State, who knows?
I was mortified to find out that although it’s BUR-wyck in Pennsylvania, it’s BErrick in England, although both spell it Berwick. I’d say two countries separated by a common language, but it certainly looks as if it’s more than just two countries involved here.
I went to college in Richmond VA. Around there they have the Powhite Parkway. I was asking directions to the mall once and a black gentleman sure did call it the “po’ white” Parkway while the white people called it the POW-height Parkway.
Then when I lived in Arlington VA, I took the bus from my apartment to the Metro. It was a talking bus and as we approached a particular stop it would always say “puh-WAT-n” I had to look at the street sign to see that we were definitely crossing the street that I had grown up pronouncing POW-ha-tan.
And in San Francisco a talking bus once said “Ceasar SHUH-vez”. Oy!
But I’m from Baltimore, so I have been known to say that the rad-i-ator (short A) RAY-di-ates heat; I get my wudder from the zink too. And that I went to a shop in “Ricerstown” (Reisterstown) and my parents have always gone to a B&B in “Tawneytown” (Taneytown).
Gloucester is indeed pronounced “Glosster”, just as Leicester goes by “Lester” and Worcester sauce is “Woster sauce.”
I was very confused by Southwark, London, though, which is apparently pronounced “Sutthak.”
Then there’s Woolloomooloo, NSW, Australia, which never fails to make me break out in hyves from sheer nerves. I have no idea which syllables get stress.
On that note, it’s CANbra for the capital of Australia. That other big city is MELburn, which is a long way from BRISbun in Queensland. (So no literal pronunciations of Canberra, Melbourne and Brisbane, please).
Tumacacori, Huachuca, Canyon de Chelly, Sahuarita…plenty more where that came from. Arizona is lots of fun!
(Too-ma-COCK-ori, Wa-CHOO-ka, Canyon de SHAY, Swa-REE-ta)
It seems like everyone in the country pronounces the Applachian Mountains, “Ap-a-LAY-chen”. It was only when I went to Boone, NC that I found out it’s pronounced “Ap-a-LAH-chien” Drives my husband nuts to hear it mispronounced everywhere. “There’s no ‘I’ in that syllable!!”
Dude. St. Louis people have effed up the French names so much I’m surprised they haven’t asked for the Statue of Liberty back.
Creve Coeur is “Creeve Coor” (It’s French for “broken heart,” I think. Who the hell knows?)
Bellefountaine? “Bella Fountain.”
I’m a Jersey native living in Alabama.
You could always spot a visitor to NJ when asking how to get to Forked River (locals say fork-ED river.)
Another one that kills me: In Alabama, there’s Andalusia. So as to not to be confirmed with a beautiful city in Spain (and-a-loo-SEE-yah), Alabamians pronounce it and-a-looo-sha. Kills me every time.
Sars? I grew up in Jersey. If it’s not “New Oar-leenz” (or even “New OAR-linz”), what on earth is it?
Coming to you from glorious Conshohocken, in the land where Wissahickon Avenue crosses ITSELF – once you’ve gotten off the Schuykill.
Oh, one more:
“To add to Marion’s Bourbonnais post, Illinois also has a town called Cairo–pronounced ‘KAY-row.'”
Actually, it’s pronounced “Care-O” but faster, almost like “Care-ro.” I grew up in Southern Illinois, home of “VIE-anna”, “Care-ro”, and the weirdest high school mascot in America, the Centralia Orphans.
Creve Coeur, MO is pronounced approximately as Creeve Core.
Interesting pair in England – Gillingham, Dorset (Gill, as in fish), and Gillingham, Kent (Jill).
One of my faves in Louisiana is Nachitoches, which is pronounced NACK-a-dish, obviously. As opposed to the similar Nacogdoches, TX, which is pronounced much more like it’s spelled — NACK-a-doshus (although some Dallasites pronounce it NACK-a-nowhere :P)
Plus, Bexar County is pronounced Bear County.
DARN IT I wanted to say “Byoona.”
We South Jersey people just call it “The Sure Kill Expressway.” :P
The one person I’ve known who grew up in Wilkes-Barre calls it “Wilks bar” and made fun of my attempted pronounciation of “Wilks bear”
@Genny & Juliette: I grew up near Taneytown. For locals, you keep your mouth in an “o” in the first syllable, and there’s an extra little e in there to make it even weirder–“Tooawny-teown”
And for more Maryland word-mangling: Havre de Grace (“Havidgrays”), Bel Air (“Blair”), and Thames street in Baltimore (“Thaymes”)
@Belladonna: run everything together
n’awlins.
And to the person who said that people in NOLA have this weird new york/cajun accent–SO true! There are some people that I cannot tell the difference between.
@Sars – In Illinois, we pronounced it creeve coor (slightly stronger accent on coor but not much).
I lived right off of Sepulveda in L.A. for years. It’s one pronounciation that is correct as far as origin is concerned. That’s how it would be pronounced in Spanish. Why we butcher all of the “Santa” names out here is beyond me (Santa Ana, Santa Ynez…Santa Claus evidently visited a lot of towns the way we pronounce it).
@Jenny
Mrs. Bb is a Brit and I laughed hysterically at her pronounciation of tacos and nachos (a nasal “a” sound instead of “ah”) the first time we went through a Taco Bell drive-thru. (She makes me order now.) And she wonders why I say “pasta” instead of “paster.” I always ask her where the R is in pasta.
I think a lot of these come down to us being lazy in how we enunciate our words. And it catches on…
@Liz: You’re right, it is “mon-taig.” (I’m in the Wise/Denton county area) I’m getting closer, though. Can I get a couple points for effort?
Heh. I have to throw one more Pittsburgh one into the fray: DuBois is pronounced “DU-boys”
Regarding SoCal pronunciations: the one that drives me batty is “Los Feliz,” pronounced “Los Feel-es” by the locals. Another Californian quirk: “Paso Robles” as “Paso Robe-uls.” I think those two bug me because even in bad pseudo-Spanish pronunciations, one would get the vowels in the opposite order of the fully Anglicized pronunciations that seem to be standard in California.
And let’s not forget about Santa Fe, Tennessee, which is pronounced “SAN-tuh-fee,” all one word.
And up here in the mountains (on the Tennessee side of the border, at least), we do pronounce it “App-uh-LA-chun” (short As both times). Using a long A or any sort of E sound very clearly indicates that y’all ain’t from ’round these parts.
As a native Vermonter, I have some good ones: Our state capital, Montpelier, is pronounced Mont-PEEL-yer. Another mangling of a French name turns the town of Calais into “callous,” and, perhaps my favorite, Charlotte is pronounced Shar-LOT.
Here in Florida, we have Alachua (A-latch-you-uh) county (home of Gainesville), which contains within it the city of Alachua (A-latch-you-way). It drives non-locals batty.