The Vine: April 13, 2004
Dear Sars,
My situation basically addresses the question: Is there ever an
exception to the butt-out rule? The one about interfering in other
people’s consenting relationships?
I’ll try to condense this as much as possible, while not leaving out
anything germane. My brother blew his life up several years ago, and
has taken some very positive action since then to build a new one. He
admitted to having used heroin, visited prostitutes, and, by far most
seriously, molesting his two children. (The boy just once, the girl
over a period of years.) He stopped the drug usage voluntarily and
without assistance; when he confessed to the molestation he was
reported by his therapist and surrendered to the police. He pleaded
guilty and was given a 15-year prison term, suspended to 18 months in a
work release facility, substance abuse and sex addiction therapy, and
30 years probation. He will be 74 before his term of probation is
completed.
I am not aware of all the terms of his probation, but they
include random drug and alcohol monitoring, and he is not allowed in
the company of minors unless said minors’ parents/guardians are
apprised of his situation and grant permission. He has not seen his own
children in over four years; his ex-wife refuses permission. He was an
engineer at the time the shit hit the fan; company lawyers insisted he
be let go even though his immediate supervisors wanted to retain him,
and as you can probably imagine, he hasn’t been able to secure another
engineering job. He’s very bright, and a hard worker, and he’s now the
foreman on a construction crew, framing houses.
And he has a girlfriend. For over a year now. I haven’t met her yet,
but she sounds like a wonderful person. He met her in church, she
served in the Peace Corps, she’s a compassionate, loving person. From
his description, it sounds like some of her previous relationships were
along the lines of “reclamation projects,” and I wonder whether that
dynamic might apply here as well.
So here’s the thing. She’s a lot younger than him — early thirties —
and he wants to have kids. This just fills me with dread. I can’t sort
out to what extent the dread is on my own behalf, because I’m afraid of
going through that hell again, or whether there is any conceivable
legitimate argument for saying some word of caution to this delightful
young lady when I do get a chance to meet her. I should stress that she
is fully apprised of the situation. She has even had a meeting with his
probation officer! I don’t even know what I would say to her — after
all, in most respects she knows him far better than I do. But she may
also be blinded by love. I just know that I already have to live with
the knowledge that I kept my mouth shut once already, when I saw my
brother bathing my niece at 6 months in a way that made me
uncomfortable. And I had several discussions with him when the whole
horrible business first came to light that literally made me sick to my
stomach. Literally. But he’s had tons of therapy since then. Right?
Keeping my mouth shut for now
Dear Now,
I don’t think it’s your place to say anything to her; presumably he’s apprised her of the situation and all its aspects, and all you can really do is strongly advise him to think twice about having more children, with her or anyone else. You should also probably decide now how you want to handle it if they do decide to go ahead with having kids — i.e. if you would intercede with his probation officer or another authority — and share that decision with your brother.
But it’s not the girlfriend who has the history of abuse, and it’s not her you should worry about talking to.
Sars, Mistress of Angst:
For some time I have curtailed my one-on-one experiences with the guys, due to social anxiety. My main line of defense has always been to not draw any attention, and I was always very unhappy when it (esp. guy attention) came my way.
I’m now on the good ship Paxil, but had been thinking of drowning myself before I caught the boat, so now when The Guy asked I panicked. I let him know I wasn’t really up to it, due to emotional reasons. But we both had a wedding to go to, he as guest and me as bridesmaid, so we were looking forward to seeing each other there. Cue the wedding march, and the anxiety kicked in big-time — I was my usual miserable no-shots, no-party-animal self, and over the course of the weekend he drifted off into the arms of an ex that showed up from a state away.
Now here’s the angst: Would I be going over the line to still indicate some interest, given that I 1) wigged 2) know he’s seen her twice since the wedding? Or do I suck it up and say nothing ’cause obviously I blew it?
Signed,
Off the line
Dear Off,
Leave it alone. You told him you “weren’t really up to it,” and he took you at your word — and frankly, if you showed a renewed interest and he returned it, I don’t think you’d handle it very well. I don’t think you feel ready. You’ll get there, eventually, but you haven’t gotten there yet — better not to pretend otherwise.
Focus on yourself for a while and let him do his own thing.
Hi Sars,
Love the site. I love The Vine and read it often. I have two questions. I read in the FAQ that you pick a combo of old and new letters, but how do you decide on which letters to pick? Also, has anyone you have given advice to ever told you if they took your advice and what happened if they did? Would you ever consider making updates part of The Vine?
Just Wondering
Dear Wondering,
Like I say in the FAQ, the way I decide on which letters to pick is random.
Advisees do write back to me on occasion with an update, usually at the same time they reply to claim their pens or magnets; sometimes they take my advice and sometimes they don’t, and sometimes the situation just sort of solves itself. I don’t plan to make those a regular feature of The Vine, though, since permission to use those on the site isn’t implied the way it is in the original letters.
Dear Sars,
I have a relationship problem. I’ve been dating
this great guy for the better part of a year, and living with him for about
half that time. We get along very well; we’re both laid-back, silly people
and we enjoy spending time with each other. We have some things in common,
like hanging around and watching bad movies, but beyond that and our mutual
feelings…not much else.
You might put it as a conflict between a scientist
and a liberal arts major: he’s more interested in practical stuff, and I
love history and art and travel. He doesn’t have any interest in a lot of
stuff that I like a lot, and he doesn’t particularly like hanging out with
my friends, but we’re different people and I can cope — mostly. I mean, I’m
fine with doing things by myself or with friends, I’m not going to give up
my interests and I’m not going to drag him along if he’s not going to like
it. But a couple of recent events have begun to make me worry. He has some
rejection issues from a previous relationship, and I think they’re affecting
his behavior to a certain degree even though I’ve done all I can to reassure
him in general. But still.
More specifically, one of my main causes for concern is that I won’t be able
to travel further in Europe as I’d hoped because of my boyfriend’s lack of
interest. I spent a semester in France and fell in love with it, and I’d
hoped strongly to go back, if only on vacation. I’d been worried about this a
month or two ago and I had asked him, if in the future I want to travel to
Europe alone (because you have no interest in going), would you have a
problem with that? He got upset, said it wasn’t fair asking questions like
that, even though it wasn’t an issue I’d dump him on the spot over. I did
get a response of sorts eventually, which was that it wouldn’t sit well with
him if I planned to go on vacations without him, but if it came up for work
maybe, but that he wants me to be happy. Yeah.
The other cause for concern is that I had made arrangements to hang out with
college friends a few weeks ago. I let my BF know about it in advance, and
he said he was okay with it. But upon coming home from work that night
before going out, I found him sulking and unhappy that I was going out, and
nothing that I could say or do would make him feel better. I went out
anyhow, and he was still unhappy when I came home, and the next morning. This
was not at all okay with me, but I didn’t understand what the problem was so
I didn’t call him on it at the time. But now the suspicion has sprouted that
he’s gonna get bitchy whenever I want to do things with other people than
him, and that’s way not cool with me.
Boil all that down and here’s my problem: I’ve started feeling a bit
claustrophobic in this relationship, and I’ve really begun to worry that I
won’t be able to pursue my outside interests while maintaining harmony. I
love him a lot and the part of me that just likes to be is more than
content, but the part that likes to do is freaking out. I know you can’t
change a person, but are we just too different to get along in the end?
Given that we generally get along well, I don’t see any problems really
coming up that could put us on the rocks, which points to an eventual
marriage. But if I can’t be myself and do the things I love within reason,
I’m really scared of the future. I don’t know, Sars. Is this relationship
doomed? Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated. And feel free to edit as
necessary.
Thanks in advance,
Where’s the off-switch to my brain?
Dear Not So Fast,
You would marry a guy who doesn’t like to do the things that you do, but who then sulks when you go off to do them on your own? Uh, no. He wants it both ways, and if you give in to that, you’ll wind up resenting him.
You need to tell him what you just told me: you feel like you have to choose between your interests and his moods, and it’s making you crazy. You also need to tell him that the pouting is unacceptable, and to stop asking his permission to live your life. Seriously. It’s not like you’ve undergone a radical change from homebody to girl about town; if anything, he expected you to change, but you haven’t, and unless giving in to childish sulking is a personal goal of yours, you shouldn’t.
Speak frankly to him about what’s going on here; explain that it seems unfair to you that he expects you to accommodate him when he won’t do the same for you. You had a life and a way of approaching it before he came along, and compromise is one thing, but he isn’t doing any.
Sars,
My boyfriend and I have been dating for nearly four years now and I love him madly. About a year ago, he was going interstate on a three-week visit to his grandmother’s (who HATES me, but that’s another story). He asked me to come but I refused, because my grandfather (who I was very close to) was in the final stages of cancer and I wanted to spend one last Christmas with him. Also, my father was about to leave on a six-month tour of duty in Timor, so we needed to have some family time. Anyway, my BF left absolutely furious with me, saying that when he got back we needed to have a talk about how I always avoid his family (which, yeah, I do. But I really did just want to spend some time with my family).
While he was away I went out drinking with a few of our friends and I proceeded to get very, very drunk (an unusual occurrence for me). I got flirty with one of his friends, C, one thing led to another and we ended up spending half the night making out in the back room. The next day, C and I agreed that it was a stupid drunken moment and agreed it shouldn’t have happened and never will again.
I felt awful, especially considering how much I hate infidelity, and as soon as my BF got back I confessed, swearing I’d never do it again. He was naturally upset, but in typical BF style he told me it was okay, he understood I was angry at him and upset about my granddad and it was my way of dealing, so he forgave me. Or so I thought.
Fast forward to last week (a year after said event), he admits he still hasn’t forgiven me, and doesn’t trust me anymore. I was shocked, as he had said many times throughout the year that what happened has made us a stronger couple, and he trusts me more today than ever before. I was also confused about why he would lie to me, as he knows that I value trust and honesty over most things.
My problem is this: While I admit that yes I did cheat on him, hurt him and break his trust, I can’t understand why he doesn’t see that lying to me for a year is just as bad. He also doesn’t see that in a relationship love isn’t enough if you don’t have trust. So, should I just resign myself to the fact that he will never forgive me and call it a day, or work through our trust issues together?
Thanks for any advice you can give me,
Even Australians get the blues
Dear Oz,
You cheated on the guy, and now he’s getting strung up for breaking your trust? It’s not like he decided right after you cheated on him that he’d pretend to trust you, keep pretending for a year, and then dick you over — he probably tried to forgive you and put the pain aside and move forward, but it’s not that simple and he couldn’t quite do it. Again, you cheated on him. The hurt on that doesn’t just expire after a year like a gift certificate or something, so that self-righteous attitude you’ve got going is out of line.
Yes, he lied — to keep the relationship going. As sins against the couple go, it’s just not comparable to your getting shit-faced and macking on his friend. It isn’t “just as bad.” Sorry. I know you didn’t mean to do it, I know you felt terrible about it, I know everyone makes mistakes, but again, you don’t get to decide when he gets over it when it’s you who fucked up.
With that said, the two of you need to have an honest discussion about whether he thinks he can get over it, because the problem with these situations is that, often, the cheatee thinks s/he can move on from it, but really can’t, and winds up holding it over the cheater’s head for the rest of the relationship — and the cheater just sticks around and takes it because s/he feels too guilty to leave. So, now you need to figure out if that’s what’s going on here; I do think you need to tone down the sense of entitlement here a little bit, but I also think you need to get out of the relationship if your boyfriend really can’t get past it, because if that’s the case, it’s just going to turn into misery for both of you.
Tags: boys (and girls) the fam
