The Vine: April 25, 2012
My daughter told me today that she really, really, really does not want to participate in her upcoming high-school graduation ceremony. I think I’m okay with this, but…
On the one hand I am thrilled to not have to sit through a three-to-four-hour ceremony (she goes to a giant high school with something like 650 kids in her class — they hold the ceremony in the arena where our NBA team plays) just to watch her cross the stage for four seconds.
On the other hand there are the grandmas, who likely won’t understand why we would even consider letting her skip this milestone/ritual/tradition. One of the grandmas is my mother, who apparently has a sore spot about graduations; she read Jeffrey Eugenides’s new book and called me in a snit about the way the (fictional) characters treated their (fictional!) parents at their (did I mention this was fictional?) graduation from Brown. Turns out, she was still harboring some anger at me because of how I treated her at my own non-fictional college graduation (24 years ago!) (which was exactly how many college seniors treats their parents at graduation — a little annoyed, a little embarrassed but mostly totally self-absorbed and oblivious). So I will have to deal with that all over again, and I’m not looking forward to it. I assume we will still have some kind of celebration so perhaps that will placate her, but in the meantime there will be much judging.
On the other, other hand, I wonder if I should push back a little and encourage (perhaps make?) my daughter go. Her attitude is a bit hard for me to relate to, because I loved high school and loved graduation — sharing that experience with my classmates and friends for the last time together. She is much more like her father, who didn’t attend any of his graduations, has no regrets and thinks this is the best idea ever. But maybe she will look back in 10 or 20 years and wish she had gone? Or does no one ever do that?
With all these hands and all this obvious overthinking on my part, I’d love to get your take on the situation and have the readers weigh in. Is it as simple as letting the kid do what she wants and standing my ground with my mom? Is there a secret fourth hand I haven’t considered?
Yes, I’ve Noticed That All My Vine Questions Involve My Parents In Some Way
Dear Way,
What I remember of my graduation days is almost exclusively the other dramas going on at the time: the revelation that my boyfriend was cheating on me with three other people, including a classmate (high school); my parents finding out about my possession arrest (college). The prevailing mood in both cases was “OMFG can we just get this shit over with,” and I suspect that it still pertains, even if you don’t have infidelity or misdemeanor drug charges floating around. At that point in the process, the grad mostly wants to get the damn diploma and start her summer job/stop knowing various assholes she’s been billeted with for four years, and even for the proud parents, as you said, it’s four seconds of photo op that somehow eats up an entire day of sweating in dress-up clothes.
But we have rituals for a reason, and it does put a period on a time in one’s life, so it’s not completely worthless — if you find customs valuable in that way, and the thing is, the grandmas do. The fam wants to take the pictures and admire/pick out a frame for the diploma, and come together for the occasion (or just an occasion), and as someone who had to deliver her valedictory address 20 minutes after threatening to kick two other people to death, in a white dress, before it started pouring rain? Yeah, I’d have skipped that shit if it had been an option, but in the end, it was worth doing; I’d gone to the school for 12 years…and my grandmother didn’t get to see my college graduation. It’s not just about Daughter finishing high school. It’s about the rest of the family marking the occasion of her leaving childhood. And about keeping the peace, which as an adult she’s going to have to weigh the costs of, without you buffering it for her.
So, that’s how I’d put it to your daughter. You agree it’s an ass-tear, and she probably won’t be missing anything for herself if she skips the ceremony. But it means a lot to her grandmother(s), so it is still Daughter’s choice — but if she chooses to bail on walking, she is therefore also choosing to explain it to your mother, because you ain’t doing it. Up to her.
Honestly, though, I don’t think there’s a “wrong” here for any of you. You may want to sit your mother down in advance and apologize, separately, for being a dicksmack at your own graduation, just so that’s done with and isn’t getting mixed up with your daughter’s decisions, but other than that, I don’t think any of the choices is going to cause huge regrets in 20 years.
Tags: Donna Martin graduates! etiquette the fam
Why doesn’t she want to go? I mean, yeah, it’s not really anyone’s idea of a fun time, but…you just sit there. And it’s kind of fun to walk across the stage and turn your tassel and know you’re done with that chapter of your life.
It won’t be any worse than my college graduation ceremony, which I don’t remember any part of because the guy next to me (who I’d never met before) had a panic attack and I spent the whole thing trying to calm him down. (He was panicking about…walking across the stage. Yeah, I don’t know.)
At the outset, I didn’t want to go to my graduation, I was so sick of my school and wanted nothing more to do with it, but my parents forced me to go. And while looking back I still don’t think by missing it I would have regretted it for the rest of my life, I’m glad I went. It certainly wasn’t some huge photo op for my family, I think my parents have three surviving pictures, and I’m not sure if my grandparents even went. (Such is the fate of the third child, one is lucky if you have any pictures taken at all, it seems)
In fact the one thing that I resented about my high school graduation was that I had to sit through both of my older siblings’ graduations and they didn’t have to suffer through mine. Mine was at least short and fun, while theirs took themselves WAY too seriously. If you go to an arts high school, and if your whole class is forced to sing “That’s What Friends are For”, it’s nice to hear someone behind you sing it in an Ethel Merman voice.
Way, is there some reason your daughter “really, really, really” doesn’t want to participate in the ceremony? The usual reasons (“ceremonies are boring”, etc.) wouldn’t seem to call for three “really”s, you know? If I were you, I’d try to find out (if you don’t know already) why she’s so resistant to going. If she has a reason – if she’s the class outcast and doesn’t want to spend one more minute with these people than she has to and she expects her four seconds on stage to turn into a Carrie-at-the-prom situation, for example – then, yeah, don’t put her through it. But if participating in the ceremony is just going to be an annoying hassle for her, and not actively traumatic, then what better time than a graduation to get used to making that kind of sacrifice for the sake of the grandmothers?
Way, can your daughter be made (at least partly) responsible for designing the “some kind of celebration” you mention, which instead of just being a dinner out suchlike can, without being too twee or forced, be more intentionally a marking of her changed status in the outside world and in the family, where perhaps she can write thoughtful thank-you letters to the grandmothers (and any other pertinent folk) and perhaps present them with a corsage or something (and meanwhile you have a bouquet and recognition for her)?
“Hey, I understand your not wanting to go to the graduation. But as you know, this would be a special milestone for your grandmas. What do you think would be a good way to both celebrate your achievement and acknowledge their part in making you who you are?”
No, I don’t think she will have a big hole in her heart in 20 years if she doesn’t go. I still think I would take one of my last opportunities to exercise parental rights and MAKE the kid go. Use this as the opportunity to import an important life lesson, to wit: it is not all about you. Yes, in theory, it’s HER graduation and she has the right not to care. However, it will be a special moment for people who loved her and helped raise her and supported her and it will mean a lot to them-so suck. it. up. because you’re going, and you will do it with a gracious, happy smile on your face and you will thank your grandparents for coming.
She’s on her way to being an adult, so this is the time to explain to her that sometimes in life we do things we don’t want to do because you have to be considerate of other people’s feelings, and sometimes it’s worth the aggro to make them happy. This is not asking her to have a big wedding that’s out of her budget. This is not making her go to church every Sunday if she doesn’t believe in it. This is asking her to take the traditional one afternoon of her life to sit through a really boring ceremony. I would tell her that picking your battles and figuring out when it’s worth it to put your foot down and say no, and when the mature thing is to give in gracefully is an important part of being an adult. This is one of those times.
And, if she’s going to college, I’d tell her in four years, she WILL be an adult, and if she chooses not to walk then, it will be her decision and you will respect it. (Although you will expect her to deal with the grandma fallout herself). But this time, put on your marching shoes, because you are walking down an aisle as some God awful high school band plays “Pomp and Circumstance” and you might as well look the part.
I think there are three issues here that need to be separated out.
First, deal with your mother’s lingering resentment about your behavior at your college graduation. You admit you treated her more or less badly, and you can apologize for it now, with the perspective to see that even though it felt like that day was all about you, it was also about other people. (I was lucky. My undergraduate thesis advisor pointed out to me ahead of time that I was not on financial aid, that my parents had paid more than half their income to the college for me for four years, and that it was damn well about them as much as it was about me. I probably would have been a totally self-involved graduating senior that day but instead I was able to act on the advice.)
Second, there is the issue of marking transitions. This matters to families and other people who love us. In my case, my dad wanted to see me walk across that stage, so even if Mount Holyoke had been willing to issue a diploma without my participation (they were, actually, but only at a cost to me of several hundred dollars, which was a lot of money in those days, when I could get it free for walking across the stage), I would have walked. And it rained that day, and the ceremony was outside, and did you know that cheap academic gowns have day that RUNS IN THE RAIN? Oh well, my advisor was right, and it did matter to my dad, and I am glad I did it.
However, you don’t have to mark transitions in expected ways. If your daughter doesn’t want to walk, then tell her that not only will she have to explain to her grandmas why not, but she will have to come up with some kind of way that the family can mark this transition in her life. Maybe a dinner party, maybe a barbecue, maybe a stint at the soup kitchen – whatever makes sense to her.
And third, there is the question of whether people regret not going. I suspect that some people regret not going, but I know good and damn well that some people regret going. You don’t get to know ahead of time which of the two choices (to walk the stage or not) your daughter will regret, and neither does she. She only gets to consult her feelings and priorities, and decide. And then she gets to live with that decision, whether it’s one she regrets or one she celebrates forever.
I don’t regret attending my Mt. Holyoke graduation, I do regret attending my high school graduation. I also didn’t get to attend either of my master’s ceremonies, and I regret it one case and could not possibly care less in the other. Hey, I live with regrets and non-regrets all the time. I’m human.
Graduating from high school is a transition to a more adult stage of life. Let your daughter worry about whether she will regret it or not. Let her cope with the fallout, by telling (and explaining to) her grandmas. Let her carry the weight of deciding how best to mark this transition in a way that the people who love her (and who care about this) can share.
Whatever she does, it should be on her.
I passive-aggressively invited my somewhat estranged father to my high school graduation, “it’s no big deal, it’s not like I wasn’t going to graduate, but you can come if you want.” And he did come and told me he hadn’t been looking forward to it but was really glad he did, which was somewhat meaningful but started a pattern of him expecting high billing at my other life events without putting in any other fathering time/effort and ending up completely estranging us. But that’s MY vine letter.
Looking back I don’t totally regret going to graduation but if I had to do it again I wouldn’t bother. It wasn’t that meaningful for me because not graduating was never a possibility. I would have preferred a grown up dinner out with family to celebrate the occasion and my passage into early adulthood.
I’ve graduated 3 times (high school, college, law school). I went to the first 2 graduations because I thought that you had to – I didn’t realize skipping was an option. My parents came, they took pictures, I walked across a stage…and I spent most of both them sitting next to people who I barely knew, bored, wondering why I didn’t have more of a connection with my classmates (I tend to have friends of different ages, so my closest friends were never graduating with me) and basically just feeling shittier and shittier about myself and my inability to be Best Friends With Everyone.
For the last graduation, I just didn’t go. And it was AWESOME. I didn’t have to fake “omg can you believe it?! we’re done!!!” tears with classmates, or sit through tedious speeches. We had a “graduation” in my backyard – complete with a hat/tassle, the graduation march downloaded from itunes, a pretend diploma and my boyfriend making a (short) tedious speech. We invited my real friends, the people who supported me through school, and my family, and had a bbq. I felt loved & celebrated, plus, I got to thank everyone who helped me get there in a more personal way.
I absolutely agree that graduating is important, but I don’t think the graduation ceremony put on by the school necessarily is. I would talk more with your daughter about why she doesn’t want to go, and explain to her your concerns, and then ask her what would feel good to her – how does she want to celebrate?
Honestly, I regret GOING to my graduations, because they made me feel so unhappy when I was already a pretty miserable teenager. I wish I had known I had the option to make up my own party.
I cannot conjure a single memory of my HS graduation ceremony. I got the JHS one right handy, and the college one there too, and hey, even grammar school! But not HS. Weird. Not enough drama, I s’pose.
Not to get all grabby about it, but is/are gramma’s coughing up any remuneration, currency, or merchandise to mark the event? If yes, might you make attendence part of the ‘transaction fee’ of receiving that bounty? If daughter is expecting a gift, well, gifts have reciprocal expectations, and the nylon gown in school colors might be part of them.
I went to all of my graduations and my husband went to none of his. We both went to grad school so thats… a lot of graduations. I’m really glad that I went, and he’s happy that he didn’t go, so it could go either way.
I liked the rite of passage. It gave me closure on the whole experience (even — or maybe especially! — my hated high school years). I went to it all, even the Baccalaureate mass at my Catholic college, and I’m not Catholic! I like spectacle and fancy dress-ups and the whole shebang.
My husband is a much less social person than me, he hates “events” (even his birthday), and is very glad he did not go. It would have been torture for him.
I guess just ask your daughter why she doesn’t want to go, and if it seems like a good reason go with it. If it seems silly, try to talk her out of it or put your foot down? How big of a fight are you willing to have for this?
Here’s the thing. Your daughter is going to have some very boring but socially necessary events in her future. There will be long business meetings, long plane trips, blind dates that seem like they will never end, and weddings of acquaintances. It’s just part of being a grownup. She can’t get out of boring social events forever, and at least this one will make her grandmothers happy.
You can promise that you’ll leave immediately after the ceremony is over, instead of staying around at the equally boring reception, and go somewhere fun while everyone is dressed all pretty. Go to the beach, or the zoo, or a really fancy restaurant. Instead of grad photos, maybe get a set of nice portraits done to hand out to the grandmothers and mark the event. Less photos of her in a silly hat, more photos of her looking beautiful and grownup.
She won’t regret not attending, but I do think she will regret disappointing her grandparents.
And congratulations to her for graduating!
I’m going to go a bit contrarian here.
I hate dopey rituals and big crowds. Hate ’em. Some people love ’em. My parents and sister hate ’em, too. We’re a whole family of ceremony skipper-outers, whether the ceremony is our own graduation or someone else’s wedding or funeral. (To be clear, we RSVP and send our regrets, congrats, or other appropriate sentiments.) We’ve all managed to experience Big Life Events of various kinds without throwing or attending a party.
We are good people who have other ways of expressing our appreciation for the people we love. We’re enthusiastic gift-givers, thank-you-note-writers, last minute dog-sitters, job search encouragers, apartment movers, and all-around decent friends and relatives. We’re not hermits. We host and attend small gatherings of friends and relatives.
An invitation isn’t a command performance. People, even high-schoolers, should be allowed to politely and without further explanation decline to attend events they don’t wish to attend.
I haven’t attended any of mine (HS, BA or BS) and never regretted it. The ceremony just doesn’t hold it for some of us.
I’m glad I went to my HS graduation. I was in the jazz band and we played after the diplomas were handed out, so those of us who were graduating all sat together in one row (there were a lot of us; my band director lost 24 kids that year) during the ceremony, then when we walked back, we just dropped our diplomas on our chairs and scurried to the band section, then played a kick-ass setlist and got loads of applause. It was AWESOME.
In high school, though, I had what I didn’t have in college, which was friends; I’m just naturally a loner and was older than most of my classmates because I changed majors and took two extra years to finish, and most people I was friendly with in my program weren’t graduating until a year or two after I did, on top of it. I don’t regret going to the ceremony, really, but it was boring and I got a horrid sunburn, and if it hadn’t mattered to my parents so much, I would have stayed home.
Which is the crux of it, I guess. If it’s not going to kill your daughter to go — as @Yogurt Baron says, if you don’t already know why she doesn’t want to go, find out, because she may have a really good reason — and it matters that much to her grandmothers, well. It’s boring and long, but unless there are extenuating circumstances, I wouldn’t want to cause drama. My dad’s mom is a major drama queen without my help.
Her decision is still her decision, though, and I don’t think she’ll regret it now or in twenty years if she doesn’t go.
I was valedictorian for my high school graduation, which meant sitting smack in the middle of the front row for three hours without wiggling, being the first to walk into the auditorium and have everyone staring at me (because I was the shortest valedictorian), and having to give a speech. Did I mention I was an exceptionally shy person back then and the only reason I agreed to give a speech was that I didn’t want to stand out by NOT giving a speech? Deer in headlights, ye gods.
I don’t recall that skipping the graduation ever came up, but my senior year was my favorite year so I still would have gone for my friends (even though I didn’t get to sit with any of them). There were some family troubles going on at that time, and graduation actually gave me the unplanned chance to resolve the biggest one (for once in my life I didn’t have to wait for perfect hindsight — my dad unexpectedly died two months later and graduation was the last time I saw him alive). I don’t regret the high school graduation. I mostly just didn’t like the assorted dramas going on around it. But I also don’t see anything wrong with skipping it and if I’d felt differently about my senior year/high school in general, as my husband does — he hated high school — I can easily see why that would be the yucky topping to a yucky four years.
I did skip my college graduation, and I have zero regrets about that nor was ever given any grief about it. And then I did attend my master’s graduation because a friend wanted me to go and I’m glad I did (and that time I got to sit with friends, which made all the difference for a boring ceremony). But I really don’t think I’d have any regrets if I’d skipped any of the ones I did attend. The only reason I might have linked regret to skipping graduation would have been missing the opportunity to see my dad alive for a last time, and who could ever predict that?
I’ve been proud to attend graduations for my friends and for my niece. Honored to be invited to witness a milestone in their lives (especially with limited tickets!). But I never would have insisted on it.
I do think this should be Daughter’s decision and not an obligation. I agree that presenting her with the knowledge that This Relative or That Relative would really appreciate it is fine… so long as it’s not laden with guilt-tripping vibes. And if she decides she still doesn’t want to, perhaps a small private celebration with relatives would work.
@Debs “She won’t regret not attending, but I do think she will regret disappointing her grandparents.”
My mom’s best friend offered to host a baby shower for me. I turned her down because I didn’t want to be the center of attention, didn’t think there would be enough people who would want to attend, whatever. I feel terible now, 6 years later, and wish I had just graciously accepted her offer. Unless there’s something terribly fraught in your daughter’s relationships with her grandmas, ask her to concentrate on how happy it wil make them, at little cost to herself.
I would simply ask the daughter if she’s absolutely sure she doesn’t want to go; is she sure she won’t regret it later? If she’s sure, don’t make her go. If it’s not a big deal to her, and it’s her graduation, then it shouldn’t be a big deal to anybody else. Family should support her decision.
Sars, I am shocked- shocked!- at your revelations of Youthful Indescretions and not always being the Incredibly Together advice columnist you are today. I shall have to clutch my pearls and lie on my fainting couch for a moment.
First off, I love dk’s suggestion of a homegrown ceremony. I attended my high school one (eh), my college one (kinda fun, actually – they had a tradition of all the profs lining up at the exit, and you got hugs/handshakes from the ones you were close to on your way out), but skipped my Ph.D. one (I’d already moved cross-country, my advisor wouldn’t have been there anyway). And yes, I think she should be forced to reckon with the grandparents’ expectations. But that could mean she explains it to them and deals with their dissapointment, she offers them a backyard BBQ/dinner out/trip to the beach instead, or that she sucks it up and goes. The main thing, I think, is to not let your relationship with your mom control/interfere with the one she develops (or doesn’t – being an adult, it’s up to her).
I didn’t go to my high-school graduation, which sounds very much like the graduation described here. I’ve never for a moment regretted not going, though it was easier for me because I could get out of town; it felt more like a factory rollout than a rite of passage. And you have to have awfully good eyesight to see who the heck is up on stage in that kind of thing (your daughter could totally pull off sending up a ringer, but that’s probably not a viable solution). So I’m another vote for finding an alternative celebration. Would your daughter be up for a special event where she told her family, especially her grandparents, how much they mean to her as she moves forward into this new phase of her life?
I love tradition, I love ritual, and I hate graduations. I went to my HS graduation, but would have skipped it had I known there was an option. I skipped college graduation, and never regretted it. It’s a pretty personal decision; it’s supposed to be about the graduate. You wouldn’t make someone go to the prom, or have a big traditional wedding or something, even though there could a lot of extended-family pressure, so I think it’s OK not to make her or pressure her to go to her graduation. She’s old enough to make this decision and live with the consequences, which will likely be positive for her.
@Agnes: Hee. I think all of these are a matter of TN record…
I got through my own graduation by concentrating on how happy it made my grandmother to see me up there. She ironed my gown herself, and battled that damned cap onto my hair with comb and bobby pins. She was so proud of me she glowed. Let me tell you, making that sweet lady so darned happy made up for all the discomfort, boredom, and hassle of those three stupid hours in an auditorium.
You know what I hate? When teachers skip graduations.
I mean, I know for them its every year and with the best will in the world you can’t bond to every single student, but. When I got my BA in drama, NOT ONE of the teachers from the drama department attended. I wasn’t the only one getting that degree so it wasn’t a personal diss, but. I really felt like the school did everything but dust its hands and say “We’re done pretending to care about you! Enjoy paying off the student loans!”
But that’s my drama. The tangle of family dynamics vs. boring ceremonies need to be sorted with your daughter’s active participation. She’s a grownup now, so she doesn’t get to hide behind Mommy. If she really can’t bear the thought, she needs to call her grandmas and explain why, and help with the plans for an alternate celebration.
I would not make Daughter go. For one, it may be hard to do, (are you going to drag her there if she says “no” right before?) and two, she either is or is close to being an adult. Her choice should be respected.
Rituals do have significance beyond the individual, but that doesn’t mean people get to make others participate. Whether skipping graduation or getting married at the courthouse instead of a wedding with guests, people do get to opt out if its right for them. The grandmothers have the right to be disappointed, not to make a big deal out of it.
FWIW, I didn’t graduate from high school (GED) and when I get my B.A. (December, hopefully) I don’t plan to “walk”. Party yes, gown no.
Never thought about it, but both my middle school and high school graduations were fraught with drama… bah! Who needs it?! College was better though, and I needed a punctuation mark on that endeavor.
Somewhat related: I decided not to go to any proms, being a total loner who couldn’t be bothered and never got asked anyway. No regrets for me, no memories of a sad evening sitting alone and no ugly dress in the closet that my mom had to shell out for. Great decision!
I think Daughter might do well to consider going for the sake of others, but that’s a lesson in consideration and unselfishness which is a different issue (and may or may not apply.) If it’s purely about whether she wants to go or not go, make it her call. She’ll be just fine either way.
College graduation: so much fun. I was fortunate enough to be alphabetically seated next to one of my best friends, and we had fun cheering loudly for our friends and pointedly not cheering for the people we didn’t like. I can’t say it meant all that much to me, personally, but my grandma was really excited to be there.
High school graduation: ehh. There was definitely some residual High! School! Drama! that was still being worked through, so it was actually kind of tense (ours was a pair of the class outcasts deciding to stick it to the alpha female by finally complaining about her bad behavior as well as reporting her mother, who happened to be our chemistry teacher, for enabling her.) The open houses were more fun, I have to admit.
I think the bigger question is not whether this is supposed to be a Meaningful Rite of Passage for your daughter, when it is clearly not, so much as it is the kind of situation where if she chooses to suck it up and deal, it’s primarily to not set herself up for two decades of needless family aggro.
My high school graduation was complicated due to TONS of familial and relationship drama (then again, so was my entire senior year, and high school time, overall, so why would one day have been different?), but I’m still glad I did it, if only because I was in the chorus and therefore sat in the first row and got the walking-across-the-stage over with ASAP and could mock the reader’s horrible mangling of everyone’s names from the phonetic name cards with the other bored chorus members. It was also my ONLY graduation ceremony (so far) which I could attend at all and I wanted to go to at least one, damn it.
Doing things one doesn’t want to do for the sake of other people isn’t fun. But Sars raises a good point – the people attending this graduation might not be able to attend another one. We lost multiple family members in the four years between my high school graduation and my brother’s, and sometimes sucking it up and smiling through the blinding sunlight or pouring rain for pictures is in everyone’s best interests.
Wow. I had no idea being anti-graduation ceremony was such a minority position!
I wanted to skip my high school graduation, but my parents insisted. Karma (I like to think) blew out the speaker on the side of the stadium they were sitting on, allowing them to hear doodly-squat.
College was much the same thing (with me being a little more understanding because college is A Big Deal, plus my class size was smaller). It was apparently such A very Big Deal, in fact, that my mom got mad at me for having to leave them for a bit in order to get a group picture taken. (This was for the honors program, mind you, not some unofficial group.)
Both of those were…quite a while ago, and they still make me angry: if I was “such an achiever! Who should be proud of herself!,” why on EARTH wouldn’t anybody listen to me??
All of which is probably my very roundabout way of saying that the LW may end up with someone angry at her regardless, so bear that in mind when you pick who it’s going to be.
I went to a teenty tiny Catholic high school, so skipping that graduation was NOT an option. Though I really wish I could have as I hated high school and didn’t have any close friends. The best part of that day for me was when my older brother took me to the movies and we had some nice sibling bonding time.
At my college graduation you were allowed to sit with your friends, so that was slightly better. It was still boring as hell. I skipped the grad school graduation and just had a nice dinner out with my family and my best friend. At my school each grad program had their own little ceremony each semester for the graduates so we went out after that. I could have walked at commencement, but I opted out because commencement was focused on the undergrads and the administration didn’t really care about the grad students.
Honestly though? I’m kind of jealous that the grandmas care enough to want to go to a high school gradutation. My extended family could not have cared less about any of my graduations. The only attendees at my high school graduation were my parents and my brother, and at college it was the same group plus my sister-in-law.
I did not go to my HS graduation (which sounds like the one described above, class with over 700 students, hot fieldhouse), but it was because I was on an Academic team that qualified for Nationals, and those Nationals happened to conflict with Graduation. The Valedictorian was on the team too, and he also skipped Graduation.
Granted, had I not had this really good excuse, I would have gone to the ceremony, because I didn’t realize it was optional. But I don’t regret missing it. My friends who did go, said it was long, hot, and boring.
I skipped my undergrad graduation because I went to a Big 10 public University, and I didn’t see any reason to go. Again, no regrets.
I did go to MA ceremony, and that was totally worth it. It was a smaller school, I had a lot of friends in my program who were graduating at the same time, and we were all going to be moving to different parts of the country (and world) after. My parents came, thoroughly enjoyed getting to go to their “first” graduation for me, and that was all worth it.
With a such a large graduating class, unless that school has a history of being able to manage to make the ceremony personal and meaningful for every member of the class, skipping it doesn’t seem that big of a deal.
Oh man, I tried valiantly to get out of my high school graduation. My AP English teacher threatened to kill me behind the school if I didn’t show up. Her reasoning was that if the AP students stopped showing up, the rest of them would too. Kind of not my problem…but I went.
Here’s the one and only thing I truly learned in high school – every time someone insisted something would be a lifelong regret if I didn’t do it, run in the other direction. I was talked into going to prom when I had no desire to be there at all. Because every single adult around me insisted I would regret it for the rest of my life (or homecoming or graduation or fill-in-event-that’s-supposed-to-be-life-changing/fulfilling-but-is-really-just-soul-crushing). I finally realized they had really sad lives if prom was the highlight they can’t imagine missing. I should have skipped prom like I wanted all along. Skipping graduation gets lumped into that to.
Here’s the other thing – for some of us, high school is not the happy highlight we love to revisit from our youth. Some of us just didn’t enjoy that 4 years and are more than happy to walk away and never come back to it. Now college, that was a different story. THAT’S the four years I remember and love and am grateful I did all the things you’re supposed to do at that age. High school was just the hell I had to belly crawl through to get there.
But I didn’t go to my undergrad graduation either. Nor did I attend my grad school graduation. Nor will I be attending the graduation ceremony for my current grad program. I don’t like ceremonies. I don’t like wearing flammable plastic gowns with weird hats that are not flattering. Factor in you don’t even get your diploma during that 4 second stage crossing, and you realize it’s even more ridiculous.
To Debs who said “Your daughter is going to have some very boring but socially necessary events in her future…She can’t get out of boring social events forever…” EXACTLY – so WHY WHY WHY torture her with this one. She’s got a whole long life of things she’ll be required to do. This ain’t one of them. Let her skip this one.
I think it’s important to note that every kid, and every family, is different. There is no “right” answer here that applies to every situation. I have a daughter who is a freshman in a very expensive private school that we can’t really afford. I work 2 jobs to pay for it because the public school district that we live in was an absolute misery for her, and it’s worth it to me to sacrifice my time so that she can be at a really good school where she doesn’t cry each night and morning at the thought of going back there. If she decides that she doesn’t want to walk at graduation? I’d be a bit disappointed, sure, but I’d also be thinking more about how well she did in high school, and how she’s going off to college next. I guess I’m not hugely into the big ceremonies that supposedly delineate the end of one life-phase and the start of another. She’ll have successfully completed high school, whether she walks or not. She’s not a huge “joiner” so I doubt she’d look back and regret NOT walking, so I think I’d just have to leave it up to her.
All that being said, if her grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc, were really upset about the idea that she wasn’t going to participate in the graduation ceremony, I’m 100% sure that SHE would choose to particpate, because she loves them, and they’ve been so supportive of everything she’s done. But that’s HER relationship with OUR family. I wouldn’t begin to assume that anyone else SHOULD have the same type of family dynamic. So, I guess my advice is that you know your family best. Making sure your daughter is part of the final decision making is really the very most important thing, and it’s fair to have her tell her grandmothers if she ISN’T participating, and deal with their reactions. After all, she’s entering adult-hood, right? Now THAT is an excellent delineating experience! :-)
@Didi: word re: prom. I went to my junior prom and was indifferent to my senior prom, got talked into going, and in retrospect, I could have skipped it. I went with a friend who turned out to be a crappy date. I didn’t have a BAD time, but I didn’t have a particularly good one either. (I looked great though.) One of the few people I’m still friends with from high school didn’t go to prom and she hasn’t regretted it for a minute.
I’ve graduated three times (high school, undergrad, business school). I went to all the ceremonies. (I couldn’t have skipped high school; my class had fewer than 100 kids. And the girls had to wear white dresses, and it rained. Thank God I wore flesh-toned undies; some of my classmates were not so lucky.) I was really excited about my business school graduation because business school was really hard, I’d worked my ass off to get through it, and I wanted to commemorate it. My undergrad graduation had events spread over days and I went to all of them … at my grandmother’s insistence. (She loves rituals and formalities and shit, to an irritating degree.) And all of those, save for the big one where I walked and got the degree and shook the dean’s and president’s hands, I wish I’d skipped. Not to the point where I’m upset looking back on it, but I was definitely eye-rolling and “Uch, FINE” at the time, particularly since most of my friends only went to the main events.
I’d leave it up to her but tell her that if she decides not to go, she’ll have to handle the grandmother fallout herself.
Telling someone they’ll regret skipping grad, and that it will be meaningful for them once they get there, they’ll see, is a good way to get them to glower through the whole thing with their arms crossed, rolling their eyes, and coming up with some kind of symbolic protest, e.g. walking across the stage barefoot or giving the principal the wink-and-finger-guns, designed to embarrass the family who pressured them to go into pretending not to know them.
Not that this has ever happened to me or anything.
I went to a tiny high school (69 people in my graduating class), so skipping high school graduation was never an option. I am not sure I would have skipped it if it were possible. I didn’t love high school (haven’t gone back for 5 or 10 year reunion and keep in touch with precious few from that time in my life), but there was something about it that was some sort of closure. If it were my kid, I would STRONGLY encourage them to do it, I think. For college, I went to ceremony for my college which was like a regular graduation (cap and gown, walking accross the stage) and skipped the whole university one with everyone. I actually kind of regret skipping the university one. Of course, I loved college and still kind of miss it!
As a side note, I have 4 siblings and have had to go to 3 (one set of twins) high school graduations which were painful even with the small school and, so far, 2 college graduations and 1 maters graduation. The college graduations are VERY painful and I wouldn’t have gone to the Masters one except Michelle Obama spoke. But there is something about the college graduations where you kind of bond through your pain of sitting there for 3 hours.
I wouldn’t make Daughter go. She’s old enough to make her own choices. I agree that she can explain to the grandmothers herself that she’s not going. This might set an excellent precedent where she doesn’t allow herself to be pressured into doing things via emotional blackmail. I’ve avoided a lot of drama in my life by establishing early on that I was going to do what I was going to do as far as my life choices were concerned, and debate wasn’t going to happen.
I went to my high school and college graduations, and was happy to do so, but that’s just for me. I like rites of passage. I honestly can’t remember if any relatives other than my parents and siblings even went to either ceremony. Skipping HS graduation wasn’t really an option because my class had fewer than 50 people in it, and I sang with the choir for the last time during the ceremony. The salutatorian’s speech consisted of her melting down and sobbing while calling out several classmates for being bad friends, and the details weren’t too clear but it was an amazing spectacle. Just think, Sars, you could have done THAT at your ceremony!
My husband didn’t go to his prom or graduation, and his mom taught English at his high school and was both senior class sponsor and prom coordinator. He actually made sure he was scheduled to work during both events, so he was stocking grocery shelves while everyone else was walking the stage. He has no regrets.
I really, really, really didn’t want to go to my high school graduation, but my parents insisted. I rebelled by taping a copy of Pearl Buck’s novel Pavilion of Women (why did I pick this novel? I have no idea) to my bicep, and then shimmying it out of my sleeve and reading it during the proceedings. Every photo of the event is of the top of my cap because I was too engrossed in Buck’s account of wifehood in 19th century China to pay attention to anything except the valedictory speech, which was given by my best friend. But you know what? It kind of makes for a neat story twelve years later, and the photos of all my friends looking goofy in our fancy duds afterwards are really treasures now. So I’m glad my parents forced the issue.
I tried to opt out of my college graduation as well, but was forced to be the first member of my family to attend a college graduation ceremony, as both my hypocrite parents skipped theirs. This time, they frisked me beforehand to make sure I didn’t repeat my bookish stunt from high school. Yes, it was long and boring, and my folks made A Scene about This Important Event, but looking back, it was the last time I got to see many of those friends (not counting facebook).
By the time my grad school graduation rolled around, I had a 1 year old, a husband with a busy work schedule, and no one in my family cared. It was the first graduation I skipped, and I actually regret not being there. Graduation Ceremony Stockholm Syndrome, perhaps? I don’t know. But I am still sorry I missed it.
Make her go. For her grandmother’s sake. For the memories. For something to complain about over cocktails for the next 20 years. Yes, she’ll bitch and moan about it, but see if there’s a compromise to be struck. It could be worth it.
I like Annie in TX’s point about setting a precedent.
I’ve found that in dealing with ritual-loving friends and relatives, I usually only have to fight one battle, and then they get it. I think they get it, anyway, based on how they interact with me. I mean, I guess it’s possible that people in my circle of friends are writing letters to the Vine to complain that I skipped my graduation and my prom, eloped, and inevitably have a conflict and have to send my regrets when I’m invited to boring social events. But it hasn’t created much drama in my life and relationships because I’ve set clear expectations all along, haven’t budged, haven’t explained, and haven’t made apologies.
I think whether to make your daughter go or not has been adequately covered, but wanted to note that not all graduations must be boring fusty events. My college graduation involved a tradition known as the “Wacky Walk” for undergrads while the grad students filed in in lines… their choice. During those 45 minutes or so the undergrads entered the football field in, well, not lines. I cartwheeled onto the field with a friend. Then picked up a hot dog from someone who was cooking them on a Li’l Webber. Walked by the slip ‘n’ slide w/o participating. Hit a beach ball around a bit. Marveled at the other creative displays some of my classmates had engineered. Located my family in the crowd and waved. Once the grad students were seated the undergrads all found chairs. There was a disappointing run at graduation speech bingo. (Our speaker barely used any of the buzzwords since he spent his time talking about whether the media had an ethical obligation to cover the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. It took almost until the end of his speech until *anyone* got bingo.) Of course that was the big ceremony with everyone – and no one got diplomas there. We were much more conventionally behaved at our department ceremonies where diplomas are handed out.
I’m not sure the grandmothers would be thrilled with that either; mine was not impressed. It was tradition at my school though, so it isn’t like we were breaking rules or anything. And it was fun.
I also don’t remember a damn thing about my HS graduation. It was boring, and I was sitting next to people that I didn’t know, so what a waste.
I would present your daughter with a choice: consider how important this rite is to the grandmas, and either do the graduation, or come up with some sort of do that will serve the same purpose. In this do, daughter will acknowledge and thank people for their contributions to the adult she is becoming. she will dress up (if not gown up) so that pictures can be taken. etc.
and then maybe let her also design a party that can mark the occasion between her and her friends. :)
I think my parents would have strangled me if I’d skipped graduation; the way I saw it, I made it through all those dull years of school, and that was the only part I actually looked forward to, and frankly it was totally long, dull, hot, and anticlimatic.
I sat through my sister’s graduation three years later, and it was pretty much the same experience.
And the funny thing is, I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.
That probably doesn’t help you much… I think your daughter might regret it, unless she’s just been really miserable and just doesn’t want to be there. I hope you’ll keep us posted on what works out!
ARGH. I meant “anticlimactic.” I think.
Graduation ceremonies, meh. Just not my thing, although I never really considered the option of skipping the HS ceremony. That one I went to and, IIRC, it was long and boring and we were all hung over and just waiting to get out of there to recover and nap so that we could enjoy the all-night-locked-in-the-school casino night party they planned for us to cut down on drinking and driving problems on graduation day (you see, we partied the night before the ceremony and thus were looking forward to the big school party the night of the ceremony).
College graduation I didn’t want to go to at all, but my mother really wanted me to go. Since she and dad didn’t pay for my school, they really had no leg to stand on in “demanding” that I go, but I went anyway to make mom happy. But I also (in fine, college-grad-aged, self-absorbed fashion) made clear that I would not dress up because our long, boring ceremony was held outside during the one inevitably, miserably hot day during a Wisconsin spring and those gowns are painful, especially if you are in hose and heels (I wore a tank top and cutoffs under said awful gown). I also made clear that after walking across the stage we were all leaving, thus sparing me the nonsense of having to sit for a few more hours as others names were called and then the pointless ritual of transferring the tassel to the other side of your cap and all the other “closing ceremony” nonsense. I walked across the stage, down the aisle, and right out of the ceremony. A few hours later when my professors began showing up at my party (they had attended the whole ceremony), I sympathetically handed out cold beers and continued enjoying myself. No regrets about going, but certainly no regrets either about minimizing the impact of the ceremony/ritual (which just isn’t that important to me). I swore this was the last graduation ceremony I would ever attend and it was (at least as a student – now as university faculty, I find myself going to them more than I would like but that’s part of my job, which makes it a bit less painful).
By the time my Master’s and Doctoral ceremonies came around, going to graduation never entered by thoughts. The M.A. I got along the way to the Ph.D. (it was a combined program) so graduation seemed pointless as I wasn’t finished yet. Because I defended the dissertation too late to register for the spring ceremony the year I completed my degree, I would have had to wait until the following spring to “get hooded.” By that point, I was across the country dealing with my own students’ final exams and graduation plans and had no intention or desire to travel back for the ritual. My family never paid much attention to my grad school work, so I have no idea if they wanted a hooding ceremony to attend? (not that it would have mattered much to me – this is how much I really don’t like these ceremonies).
All of this is a long-winded way of saying that a lot of people really don’t regret not doing the kinds of things that a lot of other people think are somehow important in life. I think the biggest issue for you and your daughter and the grandmas is to make sure that your grad/mom drama is distinct from daughter’s/grandma drama (and how you deal with that is probably to talk to your own mom about YOUR situation, and remind her not to merge that with the current grad situation). Have her discuss the situation with grandmas directly – maybe they really aren’t all that into the ceremony but just want to celebrate with granddaughter and perhaps there is a mutually-agreeable possibility that doesn’t involve the ceremony? Or, perhaps she will realize that family is important and that going to the ceremony will make grandmas happy that is cool enough for her to overcome her own reluctance to attend?
There are valid reasons for going in whichever direction daughter (and you) ultimately choose, but please don’t articulate that reason as “you’ll regret it if you don’t do it” because many of us simply don’t regret such things (and nothing is worse, as a teenager, to be told that kind of thing).
Ugh, graduation.
Went voluntarily in high school. Cool and ceremonial, in theory. In practice, it was cold and rainy and I was wearing a white dress that made me look like a doily (stupid sexist dress code) and I spent much of the time afraid that I’d get a worm in my sandal, since we were on grass, and subsequently disrupt the ceremony by standing up and shrieking. And then all the oh-god-life-transition big deal stuff got to me and I had a minor nervous breakdown afterwards.
Had to go in college; hated it. Well, hated the fact that I had to spend six hours schlepping around with people I didn’t give one solitary damn about, mostly. (All but three of my friends were a class or two ahead or behind.) Brought a book. Made bets with my friends about the speeches–won on “community,” “diversity,” a gratuitous 9/11 mention, and someone thanking Jesus Christ, his personal savior–and went the wrong way coming back. Also, our car got stolen midway through the departmental ceremony, which is kind of hilarious in retrospect. (I resisted the urge to mention karma to my mom; she, in turn, resisted the urge to smack me.)
I’d let the daughter make her choices. Have a dinner and some cake with the grandmas, and maybe invite them to make toasts or share words of wisdom or something. Take some pictures. Also, maybe find out why the grandmas are so upset, really: sometimes it’s sentiment, but sometimes people have this attitude about This Is What’s Done and What Will the Neighbors Think, in which case fuck that noise.
@Stephanie – I did Wacky Walk at said college both as an undergrad and a grad student. The other emergent JDs were impressed with my chutzpah.
I, too, vote that Daughter should go. I didn’t really love high school – I was nerdy and sarcastic and wanted to get out of Dodge – and graduation wasn’t anything to write home about. But it’s a nice thing for the families, and it’s a way to mark the transition. I agree with those who say it’s a good life lesson, too, that sometimes you have to do kind of boring things because it’s part of social expectations and makes people you care about happy. It’s only worth fighting something so harmless if it isn’t really harmless, and nothing in the letter suggests that Daughter doesn’t want to go because it would be emotionally or otherwise harmful to do so.
My guess is that the worst case scenario if they go is that afterwards, Daughter says, that was boring, Mom agrees, and they go home and have cupcakes.
I’m with Sars — Can you tell her how much it would mean to grandma and ask if she’d be willing to do it for that?
I understand her not wanting to participate. I went to a small school and the hour-long ceremony was barely tolerable. But my grandma flew halfway across the country to see it, so I went to the baccalaurete (some kind of religious based ceremony? I don’t know if they have it other places or even if I spelled it right. I only went because my choir performed. I honestly can’t remember a single thing about it), and awards ceremony (fun because I was the kid getting all the awards and I got to perform a duet with a friend from choir). I only have a vague memory of a few of the speeches at graduation, but if my grandma hadn’t come out … I might not have wanted to go. They did things like tell us if the girls wore jeans or if the boys had bare legs, we wouldn’t be allowed to walk. I think that no matter how lame the ceremony seems to the students, those things really are for the family.
My college graduations were different. My parents came, but no other family or friends did (for either my BA or MA). I wanted those to be a big deal, and I wish my parents had made more of an effort to take lots of pictures and stuff. We only went to the departmental ceremonies for those and skipped the huge university-wide events, but still …
@Didi, word to your entire post. I didn’t go to prom and I have never once regretted it. The only thing that bothers me about it are all the people who’ve given me looks of pity and say something like “You poor thing” when the topic comes up in conversation and I say I didn’t go. I mean really, why on earth would I spend an exorbitant amount of money to wear a fancy dress (that I’d only wear once) so I could be uncomfortable and surrounded by people I didn’t like in a hotel ballroom?
It was also annoying at the time because as I said earlier, it was a teeny tiny school. Everyone knew everyone’s business and for weeks I was The Only Girl Who Didn’t Go to Prom.
Well, this horse might be dead, but I would agree that you shouldn’t make your daughter go. I graduated with a large class, and the event was hot (outdoors), boring and generally a clusterduck. The party afterwards with my family was a lot more fun.
Ask your daughter this question – during the time the ceremony’s going on, is she going to feel left out?
If yes, she goes. If no, skip it.
And we all love our grandmas but by the time you graduate high school you’d better be able to stand up for your decisions.
Additional thought, in re: having to do boring things for the rest of your life.
This is true. You will. But the flip side is that you will have to do boring things *for the rest of your life*.
Which is short.
So why not get out of them when there’s not a job or an eternity of hurt feelings or whatever riding on it? I mean, girl has forty-odd years, at least, of office Christmas parties, family weddings, and dinner with that friend of a friend who can only talk about Star Trek ahead of her. Assuming there’s a way around the grandmas, why not lighten the load a little?