The Vine: August 1, 2012
Hi Sars! I’m writing on behalf of my SO and his family/finance frustrations. The set-up to this story is that SO and I live together and have just stumbled into a pretty great opportunity to purchase the house we’ve been renting for several years.
When he was in his early 20s, SO lived in his hometown about 1,000 miles away from us now, and he purchased a house there. When SO moved to our part of the country six years ago, SO’s brother moved into the hometown house with his wife and two children (and partial custody of a third, for whom Brother also pays child support). Per agreement, Brother has always paid about $150 less than the total mortgage payment — the idea being that he would save up money to buy the house eventually (and the remaining $150 went to the principal — money SO would get back when he eventually sold the house).
Brother has had his share of problems, including a few stops and starts with various careers, but he’s not a layabout. Every once in a while he has trouble making the rent and is often a week or two late with payment, but no big deal. The few times Brother has been in deeper financial trouble, his (and SO’s) parents, who also live in SO’s hometown, have stepped in and paid SO so Brother can owe them instead.
Unfortunately when Brother finally felt he was in a position to buy the house, he couldn’t get a loan (due to job inconsistencies, he’d been able to report a bare-bones income the year before — good for taxes; bad for credit). We were under the impression that he’d try again, but he hasn’t. It might be that nothing’s happened that would suddenly qualify him for the loan.
There was also talk of their parents purchasing the house and taking over rent-collection duties full-time, but nothing’s come of that as yet, either.
Of course, selling the house would provide down payment for the house we’re in now. But that’s not even the immediate problem. The problem now is that Brother has been falling farther-than-usual behind on the rent the last few months, and under somewhat frustrating circumstances. First was the announcement about nine months ago that Brother and his wife were having another baby. This is happy news, obviously, but also sent SO into a bit of a panic mode, i.e. if brother already has trouble paying rent with three children, a new baby isn’t going to help matters.
Complicating that further: It’s a three-bedroom house that was already a little tight for two grownups and two (sometimes three) kids; with a new baby, it seems much more likely that Brother will look for bigger digs instead of buying the house. But SO can’t (well, won’t) put the house on the market until Brother actually gets his stuff together and moves.
Baby is here now, and Brother does always seem like he’s doing the best he can to pay the rent. It’ll get to be a few weeks late, then he’ll pay it partially and promise that he’s working hard to get the rest together.
But then he’ll do something like he did this weekend: post pictures of himself and his kids at a significant (and expensive) sporting event. (Not the first time he’s done that while still owing at least part of the rent.)
The end result of all this is that, in addition to having to pay his mortgage there and his rent here (while hoping to save for a down payment), SO is just sad. Watching someone who owes you money spend money elsewhere is frustrating enough. SO also hates that he can’t fully celebrate Brother’s new baby — that everybody else is so happy but he’s got this financial cloud hanging over everything. When he mentioned being upset about the sporting even pic, he immediately followed it with, “but [Brother]’s kids should be allowed to do fun things.”
SO also feels guilty that, thanks to good, consistent employment, he’s never been in dire financial trouble, and he has no kids to support. But of course, that doesn’t mean he’s in a position to sponsor Brother’s family. Today he asked me (half-joking), “How much of a dick would I be to raise the rent on my brother with a new baby when he can’t pay the rent as it is?”
So, on behalf of SO, I guess my question is: What’s a good way for SO to approach the Brother/parents/financial situation? For my part, I’m trying not to get too frustrated on his behalf, but being on the outside of the family stuff makes me feel like there’s nothing I can do to help. Really, I felt that writing this letter to you was one of the best contributions I could make. I’m sure outside perspectives will help him to find the right mindset to deal with it.
Another factor that may not be helping things: SO is actually the youngest in the family. On whatever level, I have to think that ordering your older brother around doesn’t come easily.
Thanks in advance for wonderful advice,
Grateful for My Awesome, Responsible Older Sisters
Dear Grate,
What would SO do in a perfect world, if guilt weren’t a factor, if Brother weren’t a relative? What does SO want to do? It sounds to me like he wants to sell the hometown house and put a down payment on the house you currently live in. Has he considered just…telling Brother that? “Hey, Bro. So, we’ve had an opportunity come up re: buying the house we’re renting right now. Trouble is, we’d need to sell the hometown house.”
I mean, you’ve got a bunch of emotional family-of-origin stuff flying around here — SO feels like he can’t sell the house on Brother, because Brother is family, he’s responsible for minor children, he hasn’t had the best luck with his employment, blah blah blah guilt-cakes, and I think Brother has gotten used to getting by with the repeated lateness on the rent and the rescues by their parents, with nobody forcing the issue or pointing out that another baby does imply certain increased financial commitments. On an unconscious level, mind you, but still. Plus it doesn’t sound like SO and Brother got any of the assumptions about the rent or the eventual buying of the house in writing, so whenever he’s late, or short, SO can’t just point mutely to a contract with Brother’s signature on it; he just has to simmer and pretend to accept whatever excuse it is this month. (Folks, please: Anything over a hundred bucks with a family member, especially a real-estate situation? Write up a contract and sign it. Yeah, “family’s family” — which is almost always the problem.)
Anyway: nothing to be done about that now. Nothing to be done about the sporting event, either, or anything else in the past, so SO needs to leave all that aside and focus on the future: what he wants to do about the house, what Brother thinks about that, and how they can both get what they want. SO should think of it as opening a discussion with Brother, and should really listen to what Brother has to say. Don’t make it an announcement or ultimatum; give Brother the opportunity to act as a counselor, get back into that older-sibling role. But also look for opportunities to think about the situation a different way. Brother might greet the topic with relief — maybe he’s wanted to look for another place anyway. Maybe he’d like to take another run at getting a loan, at which time SO can say, “That’s great — can we put a firm timeline on that, and put it in writing? And while we’re doing that, can we agree that rent is due at X time and” et cetera and so on.
SO should start there: state what he wants, see what Brother thinks, listen, and then get whatever’s decided on in writing — and hold Brother to the terms this time. Longer-term, SO needs to acknowledge that ain’t nobody in that family buying that house, sell it, and vow not to repeat a similar intra-squad arrangement in the future…but everyone else may agree that it’s time for the hometown-house chapter of the family’s life to end, in which case, agree on a timeline and proceed. If not, well, you can handle it from there, but don’t get too apprehensive about that before SO does the simplest thing, which is to say what he wants and get feedback on it.
Tags: the fam
“Hey, Bro. So, we’ve had an opportunity come up re: buying the house we’re renting right now. Trouble is, we’d need to sell the hometown house.”
I really like that, the idea of stating it that drama-free, and kinda non-accusingly tossing the ball into Bro’s lap, what does HE want to do?
(And of course, I’m grateful for my awesome, responsible younger sister :)
It also sounds to me like what you and SO really want is to sell his old house and take advantage of the opportunity to buy the one you rent. And you should be able to-even when you do business with family members, you’ve got to accept that it’s BUSINESS. You have an asset that’s now costing you more than it’s worth (in a mortgage payment for a house you no longer need AND a lost opportunity to get what you do want). So, if brother wasn’t family and just a tenant, what would you do? You’d tell them you are putting the house on the market, and give htem a move out date. You need to treat this like the business deal it is, and do that.
I don’t think you are ever going to get paid in full on the back rent he’s already missed. Yes, things happen and there are emergencies when you just don’t have the money, but on a basic level, people either see their bills as obligations that must be repaid or they don’t. And people that see them that way do not indulge in luxuries like expensive sporting events until they’ve paid all the bills. SO’s brother may be a lovely person in other repsects, but his character is lacking in this area.
So, what I recommend that will get you both a little of what you want. You aren’t going to see the back rent anyway, so tell brother that you are forgiving his debt, because in exchange you are putting the house on the market and he must move out by XXX date (fair would be at least 30 days). I wouldn’t give Brother much choice in the matter myself. (And while you are hashing that out, you also need to hash out things like what kind of condition he’s expected to leave the house, what times you can schedule buyers to see the place and how much notice, etc.) He can find a place to live. Might not be the home of his dreams but he can find something.
This is not mean. This is not selfish. This is business, even if it is business between family members. Brother’s irresponsibility is jeopardizing you and SO’s future. End it.
It doesn’t sound like SO is remotely willing to take this approach, but for the record, I feel like a much harder line is in order here. If Bro doesn’t qualify as a layabout, I don’t know who does. A grown father of 4 needs to figure out how to pay his rent in full, in a timely fashion, regardless of who his landlord is. I think it’s high time for a reality check: “Bro, I’m planning to sell the house. It’s not working for me financially the way that I had planned, and I need to move forward with other goals. Here’s my timeframe. You should probably start making arrangements sooner rather than later.”
You also need to consider that even if you did not need the downpayment to buy the house, the existing mortgage in SO’s name, even with good credit, may make it difficult for him to buy. He really needs to get that mortgage either paid off or out of his name.
Dude, my dad got into a similar situation with his sister. He put a down payment on a house for her and her husband with the understanding that she would pay the mortgage. Which she did…for about five months. And then my dad paid the mortgage, in addition to my parents’ mortgage (and my grandmother’s rent, and for repairs to my mom’s sister’s house, etc.) This went on for five YEARS, with my mom and I urging him to get an agreement – almost any agreement – in writing so that, heaven forbid, my aunt and her husband died they couldn’t, say, leave the house that he had paid for to someone else. He finally set up an arrangement so that the house reverted to being legally his, but he guaranteed that my aunt and her husband could live their for the rest of their lives, but even that caused a ton of angst and drama.
In short, always, always, always clarify the terms of your agreement and get them in writing, if only so you can look back on what you actually agreed to. Writing things down often makes people clarify the terms and figure out exactly what they really mean.
It doesn’t sound like SO is remotely willing to take this approach, but for the record, I feel like a much harder line is in order here
Agreed. But it was in order when Brother first moved into the house. And when he was late with the rent the first time. And the third time. And when the parents enabled him. This shouldn’t have been undertaken at all, given what SO likely already knew about Brother’s fiscal-management capabilities, but it’s also not SO’s responsibility to teach Brother what’s what about the world. If he wants movement on this without dragging lawyers into it, he’s better off trying to make it seem like Brother’s idea.
It’s worth looking into your local landlord/tenant laws regarding eviction. These things vary widely from state to state (and sometimes city to city), so I won’t speculate on details, but it’s important to keep in mind that Brother is a tenant with legal rights as to how and when he can be directed to leave. This is not affected (in most circumstances) by the presence or absence of a written lease. This is not to say that the situation will necessarily get ugly or require anyone to dig in and formally enforce their rights, but it’s just a good idea to at least acknowledge that tenants gain a handful of rights (the size of which depends greatly on where you actually are) once they enter into a rent-paying relationship with a landlord, even if that landlord is your brother.
If you don’t have a signed lease from Brother, you’re not going to be able to get a loan to buy your house. A lender is going to look at your situation and say, “Well, I see you already own a home. . .who pays the mortgage on that again? Your brother? Does he pay regularly? How much? Yeah, no can do.”
I’d do what Thing Two said do, and if Brother balks, say, “Well, here’s a lease. You’ll need to abide by it from now on.”
First off, what Joan said. Getting loans is a lot harder these days than people think. Even someone with perfect credit may not be able to buy house #2 (from the bank’s perspective) until house #1 is paid off. SO needs to sell this house.
Also: Figure out the legalities of ending the rental with Brother. You may not have anything in writing, but you probably have a month to month lease arrangement (as a matter of law). It’s different everywhere, and some places require more notice when you end the term. Many places many require written notice, even with no written lease. Since there are rules about how much notice you are required to give Brother about moving out, learn what they are and follow them – even if the written notice is kept as informal as possible while still meeting legal requirements. This way SO is protected if he gets an offer on the house and needs to meet a certain closing date (where Brother drags feet on moving out).
Putting the house for sale will also force parents into the ultimatum scenario of deciding once and for all if they are enabling Brother to live in this house without keeping up on the rent. If that’s something they are ok with and if Brother genuinely wants to remain in this house rather than renting something more suitable for his family, then the parents will go through the process of buying the house legally from SO.
If not, then that’s the answer, and SO doesn’t sit around all day wondering if they are the bail-out. And if SO is lucky enough to be selling in a housing market that is moving or strong enough to produce loan-approved buyers, then it’s up to him to decide how much of a “discount” to take on the house sale if the offer is coming from family rather than not. It’s a one shot “charity/family” decision to make and be done with, not a recurrent issue of stress and guilt. But it’s a bit premature to even assume that parents would be able and interested in buying the house straight-out.
Maybe Bro will be happy to vacate the house. Maybe he needs more room and the rental market in hometown might enable him to find better space with less rent than the one he’s not making now.
You won’t know the answers to these maybes until the convo is started.
Also: is it possible that Expensive Sporting Event was paid for by somebody else? Sure, I’m skeptical, but if you don’t know, perhaps that’s something you could tell yourself in order to let it go.
SO sounds like a pretty decent guy… who’s being royally taken advantage of (yes, I know that grammar sucks).
Family and money are often a combustible, if not lethal, combination. I agree with those who have said that Brother needs to get his act together (paraphrasing, of course). Sure, the kids should get to enjoy good times. But my family never had a dime – we had good times on a tight budget, and a lot of good memories, too, and my parents paid the rent and put food on the table without owing others money. (Except credit cards, and that was mostly for medical bills.)
I like how it’s been phrased by Sars & Thing Two: “Hey, Bro. So, we’ve had an opportunity come up re: buying the house we’re renting right now. Trouble is, we’d need to sell the hometown house.”
I hope it goes well for both of you. And I hope Brother gets more responsible. He doesn’t sound like a bad guy – just one who’s been enabled a bit too much!
I noticed that Grateful is considering buying the new house with SO. I would be very hesitant to purchase something as big as a house with someone who deals with money and family like SO has so far.
At least have your own good lawyer give YOU some advice, Grateful.
Part of this is starting to remind me of a previous TomatoNation discussion: why veterinarians insist on cash-up-front instead of letting customers set up a payment plan. Everyone has a hierarchy for the bills that have to be paid, depending on how much crap they’ll be in if they fall short. Usually vet bills come at the bottom of the list (can’t exactly repo the pet), but in this case the fact that it’s a family arrangement has thrown “rent” down there somewhere below “cable”. I agree with Sars’ suggestion. “Bro, I’m in trouble. With the economy in the crapper it’s gotten too hard for me to pay the mortgage on your house AND our rent. And now we’ve got a one-in-a-lifetime chance to buy a great house, but we need the money for a down payment. So we’ve gotta put your house on the market. Don’t worry about the rent you owe; will you need help moving?” That way he’s not blaming Brother, he’s not even coming at this from a whole “I’m sick of helping you out and getting nothing in return!” position. SO’s helped Brother, so now Brother can help SO out of HIS troubles…by moving out and letting him sell the house.
And also? *Waves madly to Grate* YAY, I’m a responsible older sister! Being responsible’s a little easier when your younger sister is kick-ass.
I agree that it’s time to put a frame around this.
I’ve found that with humans in general, things don’t get done–not DONE done–unless there’s some kind of timeline. It doesn’t have to be some Dickensian Scrooge thing, SO isn’t tossing this family on the street as he laughs and cackles and sends in the repo men for the kids’ toys.
You two have an opportunity that has a time limit–I’m assuming the current owner of the house you’re living in now isn’t going to sit around forever waiting for Brother to get it together. You guys deserve a home as much as Brother does.
So do just as has been stated: Inform Brother of the circumstances and ask how he’d like to handle the selling of the house. Not IF he wants the house sold. It’s not his house. But the more freindly and businesslike you make the statement, the less drama will be brewed.
In terms of the guilt about having a successful regular-paying job and all, isn’t it time for SO to admit that he has already provided all the support anyone could expect to his brother? So now it’s time to end this support before it screws up SO’s life. Brother has had a really easy ride thanks to SO and the rest of the family (which is nice for everybody) and now it’s coming to an end.
Need to look at tenant laws though – in the UK, if there is no lease agreement, it can take months or years to get unwanted tenants out of a house. It can be argued that the tenants had a reasonable expectation that they could live there forever, unless a clear contract is in place with an end date and the option to renew. If this is the case where the LW lives, it may be better to get a lease signed with the brother, and then bring up the idea of selling the house. I know this is sneakier and may not improve family relations. But this could be a very tricky situation.
SO really did all he could for his brother. It’s time to move on from the situation as clearly it’s affecting his finances. Grateful, I’d say you definitely have the pick of the litter with SO. I hope this situation can be resolved quickly and in a way that retains the relationships all around so that everyone can go forward.
As a strategy to help SO deal with guilt, I want to expand on something MinglesMommy said: yes, Brother’s kids should get to have fun. BUT: why does that mean expensive tickets to sporting events? No. Kids have fun doing all kinds of stuff that doesn’t cost anything, like going to the park and running around with Daddy and hunting bugs in the ground and exploring back into the woods to find wild blackberries to bring home and cook into pies (flour and butter don’t cost much) for breakfast. Okay, that got a little narrowly autobiographical, but you get what I’m saying. Whole lotta really poor people out there have happy, healthy kids who have never seen a Sox game.
If you really wanted to be a dick, you could point out what a lousy lesson Brother and his wife are teaching their kids about handling money. But, that’s admittedly kind of self-righteous, and might not be appropriate. Again, though, it could be gently pointed out to SO, to help him straighten his spine re: Brother.
Honestly, unless you and SO have vast financial resources you opted not to disclose in the letter, I don’t see how he’s going to be able to get credit to take out a loan on a second house if he doesn’t sell the first house. So I second those who have said that’s how to approach it. In fact, I would look at this as an opportunity to bring it up. “Grate and I want to buy the place we’re living in now, and we can’t get a loan until I sell this house.” Tell them the date you plan to list it, and you’ll solve multiple problems at once (assuming you can actually sell the existing house).
I agree with Cora and others and would like to expand on it. Kids don’t need to go to expensive sporting events or amusement parks to have a great time. We never did, and my family had money. Most of the time, we didn’t spend a lot of money and we stayed at home and did fun things, like playing board games and watching movies and playing outside in the sprinkler. We shopped at thrift stores and dollar stores and rummage sales a lot (something I still do). We grew some food in a small garden and in pots, something I still do today. We saved pocket change and used it to splurge on stupid stuff. We rarely ate out, we didn’t have cable (not allowed to watch much more than PBS and the Cosby show, anyway), and we had to do lots of chores, more than any of our friends. But we still had a lot of fun with sprinklers, bubbles, sparklers, bikes/scooters, marshmallows, hot chocolate, homemade treats, books (used or library), jigsaw puzzles, watercolors, checkers, sidewalk chalk, crayons, nail polish, popcorn, and rented movies. None of these are particularly expensive things, but these are the things that we loved and enjoyed. On a hot day like today, we would have made popscicles and played in the sprinkler before cleaning off and going to the library or to a cheap matinee or working on a craft project. There’s no reason why kids today can’t love and enjoy those things, too. (I’m very aware that I am speaking as a person of privilege, and that some of what I am arguing here doesn’t apply to the poorest and unluckiest of us.) Plus there are lots of free or nearly free fun things to do with kids. Smaller communities have fewer, sure, but practically every place has a library (free books, movies, CDs, plus storytime), playgrounds/parks, public pools/water parks, museums (which often have kiddie programs/activities), community centers that offer arts and crafts, etc., etc. All of these lessons about having a good time with very little money have served me well, and these are the lessons that your SO’s brother’s kids are likely not getting. So apart from the house issue, I would urge you to talk to your SO–sounds like these kids are missing out on some important life and money lessons. If he feels guilty–and he shouldn’t feel guilty about basically floating his older brother for years, but if he still does–maybe he could help those kids learn these things by being a supportive, involved uncle who has fun with them and encourages them to read, draw, build blanket forts, and play board games.
It sounds like Brother has gotten way too comfortable in his living situation, knowing that SO, his “landlord,” will be flexible about rent being late, having parents that will bail out when necessary. I mean, it’s great that family can help Brother that way AS NECESSARY but it should definitely not have become an everyday kind of thing, which it sounds like it is. (Let it be known that my family members have helped me out here and there over the years when emergencies struck, but I never took it for granted or expected that such support would continue regularly.) In addition, knowing that finances are a problem for him, it was extremely irresponsible for Brother to have another child. I know some people may find that harsh of me to say but the reality is, if you can’t afford to pay your rent on time every time, having another child is just going to deplete your financial resources even more, not to mention that you are knowingly abusing your familial privilege of renting from a family member because you know they’re going to let you slide when needed. (Damn, was that a run-on sentence?) And that’s just wrong, in my opinion.
SO should play it like Sars suggested – tell Brother that SO wants to sell the Hometown House so you guys can buy the house you’re currently in. Granted, there will probably be drama (“How can you do this?! You know finances are hard for me! Work is sporadic! We have a new baby!”) but if SO doesn’t put his foot down now, it’s only going to get worse. And while I believe in helping out friends and family, I don’t believe it should come at too great an expense to those who are helping. In this case, you’d be losing a great opportunity because Brother can’t get his shit together (for whatever reason) and instead spends his money on luxuries and having a new kid instead of paying the most basic expense of rent.
Of all the advice you’ve gotten, I think the most important is to set deadlines, and stick to them. Find out how long the offer to buy the house you are renting will stand, and work backwards. Tell the brother you’re in a financial pickle and can’t carry two mortgages, so here’s his chance to buy the house and have any owed rent forgiven. If he says no, move the offer to your parents, rinse, lather, repeat. Once you have your answer (likely no), make a timeline for getting the house ready for sale, and back it up. Although its easy to feel sorry for the brother in a don’t-want-the-kids-to-suffer kind of way, he has not acted in his best interest for years, (spotty employment, late rent, additional children), and has been avoiding the consequences due to the generosity of his family. Time for him to nut up and rent from someone who can’t/won’t let it slide.
I just attended the super-awkward shotgun wedding of my brother (who is pushing 40) to his 17-year old girlfriend who is pregnant with twins. He has been unemployed for five years and she has just dropped out of college. So I am out of the running in the responsible sibling sweepstakes today. Maybe I should submit my own Vine? :)
I concur that kids don’t need expensive things to have fun — but leave that entire aspect of Brother’s existence alone, or you’ll regret it. Telling Brother what priorities he “should” put in place re: his kids is a horrible idea that will not get SO what he wants here.
Yeah, someone could call him on it at some point, but unless you want this to turn into armed camps and stay that way, now is not that point.
I’d have to agree with Sars that SO should leave the kids out of this altogether. That will only send the discussion in a very ugly place that will achieve nothing. Not that the points aren’t valid, it’s just a guaranteed fire-starter.
One other thing: I’d be careful about the “forgiving rent” line. It’s fine to say, “hey, forget the back rent” as Brother’s moving truck is pulling away, but make sure brother doesn’t interpret “forgiveness” to mean “I don’t have to pay rent until SO sells this house and I have to move out.” Because in this market it could take a year or more to sell that house, and Brother will start to trot out the “but we have to save for a security deposit” line, etc. And you’ll go from a brother who pays a little rent here and there to a brother who is paying nothing and claiming SO said it was OK.
The only thing I have to say is to tell the brother that the comfy situation is ending, as soon as possible. I don’t have a horse in this race, but chances are he’s counting on the allowances ie rent in his budget. Once he knows that the house is on the market and he needs to make other arrangements, he’ll either step up or his parents will continue to pick up the slack. It’s his choice, but otherwise it’s not your problem. Your SO loves him, and wants him to do well, of course, but sometimes that only goes so far. Unless there’s a bigger issue as to why the Brother can’t manage his family/children, what Brother does from there on is his choice.
I say this as someone who has been in the position of being helped by family. I definitely understand the Blanche Dubois saying of “depending on the kindness of strangers”. Unfortunately, at some point you need to pick yourself up and get things together. Give him that gift of handling his own life. Brother might not like it, but it could be the best thing to happen to him.
Yep,the whole ‘you’re spending too much money on dumb things for your kids’ argument is irrelevant, anyway: Brother is free to do what he wants with his money, AS LONG AS he meets his financial obligations first.
Sars’s advice is dead-on.
Just to answer MizShrew’s point about my advice to forgive the back rent and that turning into them not paying until the house is sold. I’m advising you to give them a move out date now, today, and a relatively quick one, regardless of whether the house is sold, or even yet listed. Don’t make move out date when the house is sold, because yes, that easily could take a year or more, during which you will see no rent. Also, it will make it a lot easier to sell the house when it’s clean and there’s not the messes that multiple kids and a baby make daily and showings don’t have to be scheduled around getting your brother and his whole family out of the house for several hours.
I know when we were house shopping, there was one house we were interested in seeing, but our agent found out when she tried to schedule that there were tenants who did not want the house sold and were being extremely difficult about allowing people to come in for showings. We just crossed the house off the list and never even looked at it rather than be caught up in that kind of uncomfortable situation.
Yay! Thank you all for the wonderful advice–this is exactly the kind of mindset-readjustment that will help SO feel like he’s got his feet under him as he addresses this.
Though the late rent has been the problem, SO isn’t owed any back rent (that I know of–I think the parents helped with the enabling the both of them by taking care of that the times it was needed), and he’s still been pre-approved for a home loan (his response, “‘Responsible lending’ my ass”), so those are positives. But, as Sars and so many people have pointed out, you’re right: SO has gotten caught up in “helping out” for too long now, and I think this home-buying opportunity is going to wind up being just the excuse he needed to finally take action–with a little help from the Nation, of course.
Oh, and Dukebdc, I eagerly await your Vine letter. That is the best paragraph I’ve read all week. :)
Dukebdc – yes!!!
Just a note that pre-approved is a far, far cry from closing on the mortgage. Getting preapproved is not that difficult. Getting throuhg the entire transaction with poor credit will be. Personally, I don’t think brother is ever going to be able to buy the house, and I wouldn’t miss out on your own buying opportunity waiting for him. Tell him if he truly wants the house, you need an offer now, in writing, drawn up by a real licensed real estate agent. Otherwise, the house goes on the market.
Agree that you can’t focus on how he’s spending his money. But if he weren’t a relative you’d have no idea how he was spending. You’d just know he was consistently late with the rent and you’d take steps to move him out and move someone responsible in.
Two things I’d like to point out:
1. The reason for the relaxed rent expectations wasn’t just out of familial obligation and charity; Grateful said it was to allow Brother to buy the house himself. That idea more or less backfired.
2. Even if SO has been pre-approved for a 2nd home, it’s going to be difficult to close on a home if he’s still sitting on his 1st home with his brother spottily paying rent. Even if they do close, it’s going to become a burden to pay one mortgage and be unsure when he might have to foot some of the bill for the other. Also, consider the ramifications of having a guy with two kids, one he’s paying child support for, and one on the way. This situation will probably hairy for as long as he’s renting from him.
Give him a timeline and a copy of the book “Total Money Makeover” by Dave Ramsey. Tell brother in 6 months you are going to sell the house so you can buy the house you are in now. Don’t give him an option and don’t feel bad about it. Maybe have a discussion with the parents beforehand so they are in the loop.
If you want to help him out (and can afford it), let him give you a reduced rent for those 6 months to save for a down payment/first/last/deposit. Then get out of that situation as soon as you can. Just my two cents.
Or even better, YOU don’t relax his rent — YOU start putting some of his rent money into a separate savings account, then if he complains about being evicted, say “Here, I put together a first-and-last-month’s-rent for you.” Gives you the moral high ground and everything.
I have friends who pay rent to their parents, as a formality, but the rent goes into a savings account for the kid’s eventual house down payment. If it works, it works.