The Vine: August 11, 2010
Hey Sars.
So here’s the deal. My husband and I have four kids, one on the way, and two aging beagles. Everything was great — until all of a sudden it wasn’t. Our fourth child was born last August with a major unexpected genetic defect that has caused significant developmental delays (as is, he’s 10 months old and can’t hold his head up), and six weeks after the birth, his previously perfectly healthy 19-month-old brother very suddenly went in to unexplained liver failure and received a transplant two weeks later.
We’ve gotten by emotionally and financially, thanks to a great support system and our savings, respectively, but the money is about to run out…as in, “How much longer should we bother to pay the mortgage?” run out.
My husband is an engineer, and I was in finance prior to all this. On paper we’re not poor, but I was suddenly unable to work to help keep up with expenses, and the medical and pharmacy bills have been significant. In short, if this can happen to us, it could really happen to anyone.
I’m writing because the younger of our two dogs, Sara, is very sick, and we are no longer in a position to take care of her. It’s horrifying, really, but we’re kind of out of options if we want to keep paying for medicines, therapies, and medical equipment. She has a large cystic mass on her neck — about the size of her head, and over two pounds — that needs to be removed, but the surgery and subsequent hospitalization, at $1000-1500, is more than we can afford. We believe that if this mass is removed, she can still have years of healthy life ahead of her.
What should we do?What are our options?Friends and family have been more than generous with unsolicited help for our human children, and our vet is sympathetic, but unwilling to help with the costs. Euthanasia seems premature, and would devastate our two older children, who are really attached to Sara and have been through enough emotional trauma in the last 12 months, frankly. The emotional burdens have been so overwhelming for the last year that I wonder if I’m not missing an obvious solution. Any suggestions from you or the readers would be greatly appreciated.
Trying to make it through this summer without any additional grief
Dear Grief,
What does “unwilling to help with the costs” mean, exactly? A lot of vets will agree to an installment plan for the payments if the financial situation is really dire. If you haven’t already, explain to the vet everything you just told me, and ask if you can’t have six months or a year to pay off the procedure…because the other option is having her put down, and what a lot of people forget in the trauma of that situation is that it isn’t inexpensive either.
That vet may just be totally inflexible, so get a second opinion — and a third and fourth, if necessary. Make sure that the procedure really will cost that much (or will “only” cost that much), really will extend her life significantly, really will close that particular chapter of Sara’s health history, and/or really has to be paid for in full up front.
Do some research online as well; look up beagle rescue organizations and sites that focus on beagles, not to try to give Sara away but to see if they have any advice, medical or financial, that might help you.
It’s a hassle, but it’s a family member; human or not, you have a responsibility to her. I suspect that the primary issue here is your current vet’s unwillingness to work with you on the payments, so start there.
Hi, Sars —
A few years ago, a man I knew in my small city was arrested and ultimately convicted of having child porn on his home computer and distributing it to others. He went off to jail. He was sort of in my field, so before the arrest, I used to run into him a few times a year.
After he was released from prison (I think he served about a year), he came back to our town, and our mutual field. Here’s the question: what do I do when I run into him? He came by my office, unannounced, a month or so ago to interview one of my employees for a local paper. I wasn’t there at the time, but it got me thinking. I am revolted by the thought that he directly supported this revolting industry, and I guess I sort of wish he would slink off and try to start over somewhere else. Instead, he acts like nothing ever happened, like his arrest and conviction weren’t in the paper for everyone to see.
I am unlikely to see him except in very public settings, and while I do not want to chat with him, I also can’t see myself deliberately ignoring him if he speaks to me. Is there a quick, quiet way to get out of a conversation with him? Do I have a moral obligation to tell him that I think what he did was repugnant?
What Would Sars Do?
Dear Do,
Greet him in an even tone, and excuse yourself immediately. If you see him coming far enough ahead, you can get your phone out and peer at it, “absorbed,” which then allows you to do the old “hey how’s it going sorry I gotta take this.”
But I don’t think you need to make up a reason for not chit-chatting with him; he should know why you don’t care to shoot the shit, and if he doesn’t, that isn’t your problem. I don’t think you have an obligation in the other direction either, really; if he cluelessly wonders why you’re rushing off, you can tell him you don’t feel comfortable socializing with a man convicted of that particular offense, but barging up to him all “aaaaaand YOU” is just creating aggro where none need exist.
Keep it short, don’t explain, and leave the room.
Sars,
I have an extensive movie collection that includes several foreign films, and I was wondering how the alphabetization rules worked across languages. Specifically, do you still ignore foreign articles? Where should El Norte and La Vie en Rose be alphabetized? Also, 8½: under
“E” for “eight”? Or under “O” for “otto“?
When Two Different Forms of Nerdery Collide
Dear Nerdery,
From the Chicago Manual‘s section 18.52, Foreign-language titles beginning with an article:
Since initial articles in foreign titles sometimes modify the following word, they are usually retained in an index. They follow the rest of the title in main headings but remain, as in English titles, in their normal position in run-in subentries. Articles are ignored in alphabetizing.
[A list follows in which Luboff’s Un deux trois is indexed under “U,” not “D.”]
An indexer unfamiliar with the language of a title should make sure that the article is indeed an article and not a number…French un and une, for example, and German ein and eine can mean one as well as a. In the absence of verification, the indexer will do better to alphabetize all foreign titles just as they appear in text, without inversion. Inversion is customary but not mandatory[.] [Extended italics mine.]
So, in the examples you cite, I believe El Norte is an “N” and La Vie en Rose goes under “V.”
Numbers…this is my personal preference and not really derived from any style guide, but it’s usually easier to group all numbers together in their Arabic order. You can file the Fellini in the numbered-title section ahead of 2001.
Tags: cats etiquette Federico Fellini grammar the fam workplace
Grief,
Maybe you could set up something like http://helpzeus.blogspot.com/? It looks like it worked well and I know I donated :-)
Erin
Do, what you want is The Social Cut. It is designed to convey ostracization without making a scene. We tend not to use this much, since there seems to be a widespread notion of ‘Bygones! Kumbaya!’ attitude, but really, it’s indispensible, and especially useful in the situation you describe. Most etiquette books will address how to do it (Miss Manners and Emily Post spring first to mind), but you can see some lovely examples in the movie The House of Mirth, where Gillian Anderson is their victim.
@Grief — I swear some other readers have commented for other pet bills on lower interest credit plans. So you can essentially pay the vet and then pay off the debt. As far as I can gather, some (perhaps many) vets have been burned by in-house payment plans and may not be inclined offer “we’ll send you a monthly bill” and then have people skip out and wander off to another vet (not because vets don’t care, but because they also have to make some sort of living).
Here’s an article that references two credit cards (but its a random google find…so take with grain of salt): http://tinyurl.com/57xzss
I wish improved (and/or steady) health for all of your family members.
Grief might consider CareCredit’s vet med program (http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/): the rates are lots lower than a typical credit card and they work directly with your vet to get payments worked out (which sometimes translates to discounts.) Also, it won’t help with this immediate issue but for the long term, she might look into pet insurance, especially since the beagles are older and the financial situation is going to be down for a while: they vary A LOT in quality, so it’ll require research (VPI, the most advertised one, is not so hot; I use Embrace and really like it.)
Some shelters and rescue groups have funds that can provide grants for people in emergency situations who have pets with medical needs; these resources are really, really taxed right now with the economic downturn, but something may be out there. The Best Friends network is national and might be a good resource for helping locate those resources and also for general advice (http://network.bestfriends.org/).
I couldn’t agree more with your advice to Do. I have an ex- brother-in-law convicted of something very similar. He’s now a registered sex offender and no one treats him like nothing ever happened. Half his biological family doesn’t speak to him at all, including his daughters. You don’t have to be polite to someone you find morally repugnant. Would you chat with a war criminal? I use that example for myself. It helps me with perspective and my sense of humor. Like, I have no obligation to be polite to Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin. Or my creepy, disgusting ex brother-in-law.
@Grief–I am so sorry you are going through all this stress. That really, really stinks.
One idea I had for you is applying for a Care Credit card (http://www.carecredit.com/). It is interest free for the first year. We used it when our cat was extremely sick and it really helped defray costs.
Your local humane society may have funds available for people unable to pay vet costs, you could look into that as well.
Another idea (if you’re comfortable with it) is asking for donations for Sara’s surgery. My friend did that for her dog’s chemotherapy and she was able to pay for the procedure. A lot of people have pets, and they understand their importance in your family’s life.
Good luck and my best wishes for the health of your human and animal kids!
Grief – you could start by calling local animal rescue groups and explaining the situation: they may know area vets who are more willing to work with payments plans, they may know of fundraising resources, they will probably be an overall good source of support and information.
Grief, I second the suggestion to ask the vet for a payment plan, and if turned down, simply calling other vets in your area and asking if they offer payment plans without having to pay for the initial vet visit for the second opinion is also an option.
You don’t mention where you live, but have you checked to see if there are any vet schools in your area? For example in Richmond VA there’s a large vet school, and they have a student run animal hospital that has lower fees for some items than most local vets, I also just checked and they do take payment plans which tells me that it’s fairly common and not just the vets I’ve worked with in the past.
Your third option is to apply for a CareCredit line, you first have to make sure that your vet accepts care credit, a lot do, but not all. Then you apply for the credit, you find out on the spot if you qualify and while it’s not AWESOME, their interest rates are pretty decent if you pay it off fast. I have pretty crap credit and they gave me $1000 right off the bat to pay for my braces recently, as long as I pay it back in 6 months I don’t have any interest… here’s a link to their site. http://tinyurl.com/33q74ql
Grief,
I don’t have anything helpful to add on the Sara situation but I just wanted to wish you luck in making the tough decisions that are facing you. Our daughter was diagnosed with something heartbreaking in March and I know a bit of what you may be feeling. It’s frightening, overwhelming and impossible not to get freaked out when you start to imagine how this condition will manifest itself in 4, 10, or 20 years. This isn’t what you wrote in about but I suggest you find out what kind of respite care options are in your region, see if there are any funded programs available to your child and find other people in your community who might be dealing with similar issues. You don’t mention where you are from but there may be tax credits or other funding that you’ll be eligible for that can really help out.
And, if you ultimately have to decide that you can’t afford a pet with health issues on top of all the other things you are dealing with, forgive yourself. You are facing a possible lifetime of spending on your child that, sadly, will not become more affordable with time. I’m constantly staggered by the cost of therapies, special schools and everything else that goes with a child who has special needs. A payment plan for 1000 will end up costing you more and that might be money that you’ll really need for essential services for your child. It’s an awful choice to have to make and I’m sorry for your pain but a dog is not equal to a child – it just isn’t. Good luck.
Grief, I am so, so sorry you have had such troubles.
Sars is right–there must be a vet out there who can amortize your payments. The question is, how many vets can you realistically reach? If you’re in a very rural or sparsely populated area, it could be a bit more difficult.
This is where your support network can come into play. If you find a vet in the next town, is there someone there who can take Sarah in and nurse her through the post-op period?
I know this sounds like a huge imposition, but sometimes life throws those at you. Just remember one of my favorite quotes: We are here to endure the beams of love. Let people help you to way beyond any point you could have dreamed of (this is not, repeat, not, the same as taking advantage of them.) You’ll have plenty of time to pay it back, and forward. Hugs.
Grief – I emailed my sister, who is a vet and she read your question and gave me a reply (when I twisted her arm). Just in her experience, most small vet clinics don’t offer payment plans. That’s because, in the end, they often don’t get any money after the down payment which makes them financially unable to offer them. At one of the clinics she worked at, they stopped offering payment plans after they discovered that more than 50% of those accounts had to be sent to collections. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to find someone that offers that, just that your vet is probably not being inflexible. She said that some large vet clinics do something called “Care Credit”, which you have to apply for and is similar to a credit card, so you might call around and see if any clinics in the area offer that (and start with the big ones). You might also ask if any of the clinics or rescues in the area have a charity fund (clients donate money, and then the vet uses that money to do procedures for people that can’t afford them). She also said that the rest of Sars advice was spot on in that it’s very important that you determine or verify what her long-term prognosis really is as well as nailing down the costs, etc. I wish you the very best of luck with everything!
Wow. For the first time, maybe ever, I (kind of) disagree with Sars re: Grief. Since becoming a parent, my attitude toward pets has really changed … and there is no earthly way I would spend money I didn’t have on medical care for a pet — especially in Grief’s situation. In our family, the pet (a cat) is a tertiary family member, and we take good care of him, but I would not provide care to him to the exclusion of care for my children. His needs are filled, but they are at the bottom of the list when the collective needs must be prioritized.
I agree that Grief should do some legwork to try and find a vet who might be more flexible, and I agree that putting the dog down is no cavalier option, but if spending that $$ means human children (not to mention sick, disabled or newborn human children) are going to do without something vital, necessary or deeply desired, then I would not do it.
OTOH, I get not wanting further emotional upheaval for the older children, so my compromise would probably be to make the dog as comfortable as possible for the least amount of money, in the hope that when the family becomes more solvent, dog surgery would be an option. Allowing the dog to suffer, however, is emphatically not an option.
It’s a tight spot. Best wishes for a healthy birth for you & #5, and continued health of your kids, Grief. You’re clearly tough as nails, sister.
Grief, just an addition:
Care Credit is wonderful, and saved my heinie more times than I can count with our last pair of older, health-issues-galore cats. But be very, very sure you make the payments on time, or the interest rates shoot up. Just a warning.
Do – You may or may not have this conception of the justice system, but one way of thinking is that the punishment a judge hands down is the amount of punishment that pays the offender’s debt to society. He served his punishment and doesn’t owe more; that was the point. When he comes out, his debt to society is paid. (This is part of the thinking behind the reasoning that “it is OK if prisons are terrible places.’) Punishing the person further (like, by restricting where they can live) undermines the purpose of putting justice in a judge’s hand.
This doesn’t help with your revulsion, and doesn’t settle what you should do. Being civil, and no more than civil, is always acceptable for acquaintances. But if you want a way to think about it that might let you interact with him, if you must, you could think that serving his punishment wipes him clean.
Since becoming a parent, my attitude toward pets has really changed … and there is no earthly way I would spend money I didn’t have on medical care for a pet — especially in Grief’s situation.
What would you suggest she do instead? Seriously. Just open the back door and vaya con dios? Won’t work; the dog will come back. Have the dog put down? Like I said, euthanizing an animal humanely costs money: the medication, the vet’s time, disposal fees. So what should she do — hit Sara with a shovel and cram her into an incinerator? Does it sound like Grief has time to sell the older kids on the “went to live on a farm” story no matter where Sara actually ends up going?
Nobody’s suggesting that Grief hock the baby’s respirator to pay for surgery on a beagle, but there’s a difference between “not as high a spending priority as my human child(ren)” and “not worth treating humanely,” and if Grief wants a HUMANE solution to this problem, she only has so many options.
@Sarah D. Bunting – well said as always, the “deeply desired” in that sentence hit a nerve, and I just finished sputtering at my screen to comment…
I hope we can avoid the “only parents understand what’s really important and what isn’t” meme, not only because it isn’t going to help Grief, who is on her fifth child and presumably does not require an explanation of how parenthood changes one’s perspective, but because there is no need for a parent-nonparent divide on this issue. Plenty of parents would be just as conflicted as Grief, and would rule out euthanasia as a cost-saving strategy just as Grief did. Plenty of non-parents, on the other hand, consider their pets “tertiary” and would not pay for major surgery, despite not having children. Grief considered and ruled out euthanasia for several reasons, and would not have come to Sarah to be told to put it back on the table unless she had never read the Vine, ever.
(I’m actually fascinated by what “tertiary” means here as far as pets in the family being tertiary, as opposed to “secondary.” Presumably, either husband and kids are both secondary and pets are tertiary because self is primary, or either husband or kids are secondary as opposed to primary, and I’m dying of curiosity. But anyhoodle.)
The question Grief is asking is not “How important is my dog, and should I allow my children to die for lack of the $1500 I spent on the dog?” The question Grief is asking is, “Do you have any creative ideas for how I can raise or borrow the money I need to treat my dog, because watching their dog die miserably is not what I or my kids need right now, not to mention the fact that it constitutes irresponsible treatment of the dog, and the dog is not at a stage where euthanasia would be ethical?”
Grief knows her financial difficulties are bigger than $1500. She’s going to need a bigger financial solution. For now, she wants help coming up with the money for surgery.
Yes, medication and food come first, but wtf “deeply desired”? What, we’re prioritizing an X-Box over the dog now?
Grief- If you haven’t already, please look into Early Intervention for your 10 month old. Services are provided free of charge in many states and on a sliding scale in the states that charge. They can provide valuable support for the family through therapy for your little one as well as finding you resources to help with, well, everything. I work in the field and I’d do just about anything for the families I work with. If you need help finding information about your states program, please get my email from Sars and I’ll find it for you.
This isn’t really what Grief asked, but I donated to the Zeus project that Erin mentioned, and I would do it again in a heartbeat for Sara.
I’d also donate (I can’t do much, but every little helps, no?) if we could set up something here. There’s endless amount of grief out there but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to help when we can. Sars, can we set up something here? It’s been done with some success in the recent past, right?
@Grief – The Humane Society has a page that has some suggestions for how to get assistance with vet care: http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/trouble_affording_veterinary_care.html. Some suggestions on this page are more helpful than others (Have a yard sale?!? Really?), but it does have several links where you can find vets who do payment plans and vet schools that will perform procedures at a fraction of the cost.
Good luck!
I would also donate to help out Grief and Sara. I wouldn’t have a clue how to set it up (like the Zeus project) but hopefully someone could come forward to help Grief.
@Linda: Beautifully said. I am likewise really tired of the parents-versus-nonparents thing, especially where it concerns responsible pet ownership.
Incidentally, when I was a kid, the thing I most “deeply desired” the continued well-being of our family pets. We learned very early to value them more than gymnastics lessons and cool toys.
Grief is welcome to post a link here, if she sets something up. Stay tuned.
I want to donate money for Sara! If Grief does set up something like that, I really do hope there might be a Vine follow-up.
Deeply desired? Does this mean that wants should be taken care of before an animal’s needs? I want a lot of things, but I still take care of my cats and my dog, and I have often done it despite what I wanted, because that’s my responsibility as a human who tries to be both ethical and kind. Let’s not forget that cats and dogs were domesticated by humans, which means that it is up to us to take care of them. They have a lot of abilities and intelligences, but they cannot completely care for themselves. Their main purposes in our lives are 1) to provide companionship and affection to us, which enriches our lives, and 2) to allow us the joy (and sometimes heartbreak) of taking care of these little beings and giving them affection back. This kind of relationship has value (for both the animal and the human caretaker), these animals should be treasured and treated kindly, and kids should absolutely be taught these lessons.
But to the OP, I’d also suggest looking into some of the larger veterinary practices in your area. Find out of they do payment plans or accept Care Credit, and go in for a second medical opinion about her treatment and her realistic prognosis. Sometimes the costs of these procedures vary widely. I know you have a lot on your plate now. I’m sorry for that. But please take care of Sara. I’d be willing to help however I can, and I bet you have people in your life who would, too. Maybe you know someone who could do this research for you, or who could at least take her to the vet. Good luck to you.
@Grief: I second (or maybe tenth?) the CareCredit option. We got one when our cat had a ruptured abcess and the bills came to nearly a thousand dollars. Since then we also had a cat diagnosed with cardiomyopathy and hyperthyroid; not every vet takes the card, but many do, and if your regular vet doesn’t, you should be able to find one who does to do Sara’s procedure.
In addition, they almost always have some kind of no-interest-within-X-months deal going. Every single bill for our cats that we’ve charged to CareCredit has qualified for either no interest for 6 months, or no interest for 12 months. (It’s based on the total bill, but it only takes a couple hundred to reach the 6-month interest-free tier, and only a couple hundred more for the 12-months interest-free.) You need to check with the vet office itself to see what kind of promotion they can get you; the main CareCredit customer service won’t know.
It does have the down side of if you make late payments, they charge fees and so forth – like all credit cards – but it totally sidesteps the issue of vets not wanting to bill or take installment payments. Vet gets paid immediately and you get to pay it off interest-free over time. Some vets will even process the application for you on the spot. If your vet balks at the installments idea, seek another vet office with CareCredit.
Count me in for a donation for Sara too.
Oh, I totally agree on “Tertiary” – I, too, sincerely value my family members who date from the Paleogene/Neogene portion of the Cenozoic era, c. 65 – 1.8 million years ago.
… waaaaait a second.
But seriously, I third the idea of a donation pool; just steer the T-Nation w/ a link!
I’m happy to chip-in, and I’m sure the Nation could manage to help a lot, but I want to emphasize Sar’s point of looking around for beagle groups to see if they can help, too. I have cattle dogs and hang out on a cattle dog forum and the rescue groups there are always more than happy to post about a family that came to them because they didn’t want to give up their dog but had to have a surgery for it they couldn’t afford.
You get more eyes on what you need and if each set of eyes can chip in $5, you are set and everyone that skipped a latte gets to feel good about helping you and your dog out. Our boards actually have a thing called ‘First of the month Fix-it’ where folks chip in $5, $10, $20 once a month and the ladies that run that will keep an eye out for dogs in need. Beagle orgs may have the same thing that could chip in part of the funds, too.
Also, something a lot of folks do is having the option of people calling in their credit card to the vet’s office directly to be put against your bill, so that you know it’s all kosher. *Many* vet’s offices are willing to do this, and it makes people who are suspicious or don’t have paypal more comfortable helping.
Another option is putting up the vet’s estimate via scanner on the donation page you create so people can see what’s what. Again, someone who wants to check on it can call the vet’s office and say, ‘do you have a beagle named Sara that needs this surgery?’ On our boards, just one person checks in, but it keeps people from worrying about getting taken advantage of when trying to help others. Not that I think this is the case here, but if she goes for a donation page, knowing these things might keep her from getting unkind e-mails doubting her story or whatever.
And Grief, I’m terribly sorry for all your difficulties. Please don’t add to your worries by thinking you shouldn’t ask random strangers for a couple bucks. If it makes you feel better, when things get better for your family, you can always make a donation to a beagle rescue, the ASPCA or another animal organization.
@Bitts – I empathize with what you are saying. It seems a thoughtful response to a difficult situation.
You do offer suggestions in your response and while others may not agree with your suggestions, nowhere do I see reference to shovels or inhumane treatment. And nowhere do I see a reference to gymnastics lessons, X-boxes or cool toys. I think that’s a pretty big leap for Sars and some of the readers to make.
I’ve been doing a little poking around, and here’s a good list of possibilities for grants for medical assistance: Speaking for Spot. I don’t know if these organizations are still accepting applications given the current economic crisis, but they might be worth contacting. The Pet Fund looks like a good possibility, for example.
Grief can check with local rescues to see if they would provide assistance, too. I work with an animal rescue group, and we do try to help people when we can. However, we’re drowning right now. Too many animals needing rescue, not enough donations coming in. Maybe the rescues in her area are in better shape–I hope so.
Grief: have you looked into financial aid from the local children’s hospital for your children, too? A few years ago, my son went blind from stress (no, really; conversion disorder), which was very expensive, although I’m guessing a drop in the bucket compared to what you are facing. Anyway, we live in Seattle, and I discovered, partway into treatment, that they offer financial aid. To people like me, who have decent incomes, and insurance, even. They don’t tell you about it, but it’s there if you ask. I wound up getting FULL COVERAGE for all treatments he received there. Including things like soccer injuries, too (suffered *after* his vision returned, don’t worry). Anything he had to go to Children’s for, they covered. It was *amazing*. They even covered some things retroactively. I know Children’s Seattle is part of a national hospital network, so perhaps it’s possible to arrange something this way with a hospital near you? Also, a couple months after my son went blind, our dog developed a mystery illness, which I spent an embarrassing amount of money I didn’t have trying to diagnose (he died two years later, still undiagnosed (although I can share a loooong list of problems he did NOT have), but very fond of his two internists, regular vet, radiologist, hematologist, numerous emergency vets, and allergist), and boy, do I wish someone had told me then about CareCredit. Damn, I wish I’d posted something here. I wound up refinancing my house to pay for that dog’s bills. Financially, it was the stupidest decision ever, but… my son had just gone blind from stress, do you really think I was going to let his dog brother go without a fight? Anyway, I hope you can work out some kind of solution for Sara, regardless, and would contribute if a fund is set up for her. I completely understand the need to take care of a pet, even if it’s a financially stupid thing to do. Grief’s older children really don’t need to lose their doggy any earlier than they have to.
@attica, ok, I’m fascinated and google isn’t helping. Please describe the details of The Social Cut. I am totally netflixing House of Mirth…
The question Grief is asking is not “How important is my dog, and should I allow my children to die for lack of the $1500 I spent on the dog?” The question Grief is asking is, “Do you have any creative ideas for how I can raise or borrow the money I need to treat my dog, because watching their dog die miserably is not what I or my kids need right now, not to mention the fact that it constitutes irresponsible treatment of the dog, and the dog is not at a stage where euthanasia would be ethical?”
Well put, and I would add that while Sars’s original advice was fine as far as content, her tone seemed to jump right to the “A pet is a responsibility and you don’t get to shirk it” tone usually reserved for whiny first-time cat owners in Boston, without acknowledging that Grief (a) is dealing with a lot more than “Ick! Pets have needs!” and (b) is thus probably speaking from a place of mental and emotional exhaustion. So even though I read her letter similar to how Linda read it, Sars may have read it as a case of a case of irresponsible contemplation of euthanasia prior to exhausting ALL other options.
Good luck, Grief. Another potential chipper-in for Sara here.
Sars may have read it as a case of a case of irresponsible contemplation of euthanasia prior to exhausting ALL other options
Not so, at least the “irresponsible” part. I do think that this is a problem Grief might have made progress on with a little research, either online or calling around to local vets, and she doesn’t have a lot of extra time to devote to that, I’m sure, but it’s still got to be done.
@Do – I don’t have a perfectly parallel situation, but a similar one. Someone who I am not well acquainted with (but goes to church with my mom) plead no contest to some sort of child sex offense. I don’t recall the particulars and they aren’t important. He did 9 months or so, and then came home. Obviously there was a significant amount of drama at the church about this because I think the alleged victim was a church member as well. We were invited to a “homecoming party” (for lack of a better term) for this person, and while it was awkward, we went and we were polite. I believe my mom is still friendly with him when she encounters him at church (I know she’s joined the choir and I think he sings in it).
My thought was and is this: this person has already been punished, and they will live with that for the rest of their lives. It’s a terrible situation for all parties involved, and leaves many people feeling revolted, as do you. Don’t make it any worse than it already is.
But I ask this: how should this person act? Should he carry a sign that says “child pornographer”? He’s already been marked, since he moved back to the town where he lived before this happened. He knows you all know, and he has chosen to resume his life there.
You don’t have to be his best friend or even an acquaintance. But it won’t kill you to be polite, as Sars suggested, and excuse yourself from his presence without making a scene. Keep your moral obligations to yourself – he’s already been judged (repeatedly) and punished (repeatedly). It’s not your job to remind him what a miserable excuse for a human being he is – it’s been done.
Last, maybe he came back to this town because he has friends, family and a life there – something he wouldn’t have somewhere else. Can you really blame someone for returning to the only support system they have after getting out of prison?
‘I would add that while Sars’s original advice was fine as far as content, her tone seemed to jump right to the “A pet is a responsibility and you don’t get to shirk it” tone usually reserved for whiny first-time cat owners in Boston, without acknowledging that Grief (a) is dealing with a lot more than “Ick! Pets have needs!” and (b) is thus probably speaking from a place of mental and emotional exhaustion. So even though I read her letter similar to how Linda read it, Sars may have read it as a case of a case of irresponsible contemplation of euthanasia prior to exhausting ALL other options.’
Huh. I didn’t read it that way at all. I guess it’s all in how words don’t always translate tone to everyone the same.
I read it as Sars seeing that Grief doesn’t want to put her dog down and is offering up options that Grief (who is a tad busy with other thoughts) might not have thought of. I didn’t read it as calling her irresponsible. She may not have formally acknowledged that Grief has other things on her mind, but I think that’s kind of obvious and not really needing pointing out. Grief even said:
‘The emotional burdens have been so overwhelming for the last year that I wonder if I’m not missing an obvious solution.’
Another option for Grief- some vets give discounts to rescue groups. By contacting a rescue group, she may be able to either find one of these vets through them and speak to that vet about her situation. There are really a lot of incredibly awesome vets out there that will try to help out. When one of my cat’s had cancer, I discussed some of the costs with my then vet and they found ways to drop some of the prices for me. Also, if Grief can take the results from her original vet to other vets, she could possibly get *estimates* based on that and not have to pay for two or three other check-ups which would get expensive fast.
@Grief — I’m so sorry for your family’s difficulties. Absolutely get additional opinions about whether surgery is the only recourse, including regionally-close vet schools. Also look into holistic alternatives (http://www.altvetmed.org/pages/organizations.html) that may offer the same quality of life. Best of luck to all of you.
@Junior Mint – I was intrigued too. It’s actually called “The Cut Direct.” Emily Post describes it as such:
THE “CUT DIRECTâ€
For one person to look directly at another and not acknowledge the other’s bow is such a breach of civility that only an unforgivable misdemeanor can warrant the rebuke. Nor without the gravest cause may a lady “cut†a gentleman. But there are no circumstances under which a gentleman may “cut†any woman who, even by courtesy, can be called a lady. 25
On the other hand, one must not confuse absent-mindedness, or a forgetful memory with an intentional “cut.†Anyone who is preoccupied is apt to pass others without being aware of them, and without the least want of friendly regard. Others who have bad memories forget even those by whom they were much attracted. This does not excuse the bad memory, but it explains the seeming rudeness. 26
A “cut†is very different. It is a direct stare of blank refusal, and is not only insulting to its victim but embarrassing to every witness. Happily it is practically unknown in polite society.
@ Grief, as soon as you can set up something for donations and let the TN have a link, I’m in. I may be a crazy cat lady now, but once upon a time there was a trio of beagles who were my best friends even when the human kids weren’t.
@ Do, I also support the suggestions for the use of the Social Cut if you have to deal with the ex-offender. This wasn’t a speeding ticket or a convenience store holdup type of thing, the sort of crime that could be argued was a one-time incident. It was more of a lifestyle, an ongoing behavior that experts can’t even agree on whether or not it can be “treated” (eradicated) successfully. The man’s prison term may have paid his debt to society for what he _did_, but it wouldn’t likely have changed what he _is_. You do not have any obligation to be friendly, only to be barely civil.
As we know, Grief has a lot on her plate right now and may not know how (and it may take a herculean effort) to set up a donation link – would someone from the Tomato Nation offer to help? Maybe it is super easy – but, seriously, I wouldn’t have a clue how to do that.
@Reyn & Junior Mint: Yep, Emily calls it Cut Direct. In HoM, Elizabeth McGovern & Laura Linney issue it to Gillian A. It’s a shocking moment; you might gasp.
@Megan: I get your point about ‘justice being served’ but criminal code is, imo, way different from social interaction. A criminal debt paid isn’t the same thing as a entitling you to a social pass (depending on the crime and context, of course). I agree with your point about discrimination in hiring and leasing, but that’s not the extant issue with Do.
That a guy’s done his 7-year bit for home invasion doesn’t mean I’m asking him to house sit while I’m on vacation, you know? And kiddie porn is way more virulent than stealing stuff. Cut him dead.
If at some point he has demonstrated rehabilitation (however that manifests in this situation), you can revisit the decision to cut. Remember in Mansfield Park, after Maria’s affair with Henry is discovered and she leaves Rushworth? Mary discusses how, although they have to cut Maria and Henry in the short term, there are paths to social rehabiltation which she lays out. So like that.
As always, my social motto is: WWDD (What would Darcy do?).
We had an issue with my sister’s dog when she (the dog) ate a bottle of Advil when she was one year old. The doctor at Univ of Penn Veterinary Center suggested keeping her for the weekend for transfusions and supervision to the tune of several thousand dollars. With two kids at home, she couldn’t possibly spend that for the dog. She ended up bringing the dog to the local vet for transfusions every day for a week. Still expensive, but not prohibitively so. She was prepared if the dog passed away that she had done all she could and not jeopardize her kids or home.
Grief, please know that this is a decision everyone must make individually and I wish you the best of luck that all comes out for the best.
@Sarah Whoa, is this guy still going to the church? If he’s a registered sex offender, he really shouldn’t be, since I assume there are minors there. Especially if the victim is still there! We all have a responsibility to keep children safe, and I’m very fine if making sex offenders feel uncomfortable is the end result.
@Dani, I don’t believe he is a registered sex offender. I can’t remember what the charges were, but I’m fairly certain the no contest plea was to a reduced non-registerable offense (this was probably 8 or 9 years ago). I don’t recall the specifics, as it was my mom’s church, not mine, and I haven’t been there regularly for…8 years.
And I do believe he should be allowed to attend church, although certainly the church would need to be aware of it. Churches particularly have an obligation to accept people who are criminals (even sex offenders, as painful as that may be). That, I’m afraid, is what Christ would have us do. Which I guess was my point for Do, and others – don’t be his friend, but its really not necessary to do anything beyond that. This child pornography seller may be the slimiest slime ball ever, but I doubt he hasn’t had that point driven home to him in many ways already. Is it necessary for some casual work acquaintance (or anyone else, for that matter) to go out of their way to remind him what an unwanted member of society he is?
Sometimes I surprise myself.
How would the LW know whether the person has “demonstrated rehabilitation”? I’m uncomfortable with the idea that a sex offense (even against a child, which is obviously egregious) should be equated with permanent social ostracization. (I’m responding to the comments, not the advice Sars gave.)
The LW says that he “acts as if nothing happened”. How exactly is he supposed to act? Begin each conversation with a statement that he now understands on the evils of child pornography? Only speak when spoken to? A maximum of three smiles a day? I’m serious: is he allowed to have friends and joke around with them in public, for instance?
(Of course it’s totally possible that this person does think “what I did wasn’t that bad, thank God that’s over with and now life is normal again, no big deal!”. But that’s not the most likely scenario, I think, given the personal fallout that’s inevitable with this kind of thing. I’m not saying he might not be wanting to or planning to repeat. But it won’t be because he thinks it’s no big deal and there are no consequences.)
Anyway, I might be naive, but my guess is that the world is actually better off if this person chooses to remain in the community where he started (assuming there is not a victim to be considered, which makes things more complicated, but the LW didn’t mention a local victim so I’m assuming this was Internet porn). I’m not sure what the LW thinks is better about him “slinking off and starting over somewhere else”, other than that then he or she doesn’t personally need to deal with him. But presumably that would leave the offender in a situation with no personal support and also no accountability (both on a personal level, if he’s actually trying to deal with an addiction, and also on a community level, in terms of protecting children). That seems like a much quicker recipe for recidivism if you ask me.
So, you don’t have to be friends with this guy, or even more than marginally polite to him– as Sars said. (A “welcome home” party seems incredibly inappropriate.) Certainly the people actually in his life should have the very valid option of choosing not to interact with him at all, as for them it is not a question of an occasional business interaction but something more serious. But I just don’t think it’s the job of the barely-acquainted to set ourselves up as permanent judge, jury, and executioner on this person’s life.
@Dani– It depends on the church. Some churches have well-defined safety policies on how to handle registered sex offenders in their congregations; there are ways to handle it. Not that this church necessarily sounds like it has that together. The policies will usually involve notifying at least the congregational leaders and parents as well as clear restrictions on where and when the person can be (e.g. never on the floor of the building where the children’s playroom is). The more extreme cases might be asked to have an escort at all times. The goal is to balance the needs of the community to be protected with the goal of helping people who need help– both just because they sex offenders, so by definition that’s likely something that needs helping, but also because at least at my church, they are often poor or homeless as well.
(Everything is completely different if the victim is in the same community, of course, in which case you just can’t have it both ways and you HAVE to pick the victim.)
@lbn: why is it different if the victim is in the same community? Isn’t the victim experiencing the same levels of harm whether you know him/her or not?
Not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand the reasoning.
@js– if the victim is actually in the same community, I don’t think it’s even close to fair to ask him or her to interact even casually with the attacker/abuser, unless that’s absolutely their choice. No way. I think sex offenders should be able to have some community but IMO absolutely nothing entitles them to the one where their victim finds his or her support. I guess that’s the only reason I responded in the first place– I’m absolutely 100% for the people victimized (either directly or indirectly, e.g. friends, relatives, or also people with a similar background who might be triggered by the interaction) having the freedom to choose non-interaction. That’s actually exactly why I think it falls to the “uninvolved” (as I read the LW to be) to not make totally impossible any re-integration into society (with IMO the alternative not necessarily being ideal either)– we can’t ALL “cut” them dead if that’s going to happen.