The Vine: August 18, 2010
Dear Sars,
I’ve been reading Tomato Nation longer than any other site I can think of, and I’m hoping you and the hivemind can help me with what promises to be an ugly family drama no matter how it shakes out.
My boyfriend and I are slowly edging towards getting married, probably in the next year or so. He’s delightful, a smart, kind, loving man who I am excited about spending the rest of my life with. And it’s a miracle he’s grown up to be this man because his childhood is the worst case of child abuse I have real-life knowledge of.
His mother is evil. She beat him viciously throughout his childhood, neglected his material needs, and emotionally abuses him to this day. And as an added bonus, she ignored the textbook signs that another family member was sexually abusing him and continued to leave him in this person’s care for over a decade. He signed up for the military and left almost immediately after high school.
The abuse would be enough to cut her out of our lives, something we’ve already agreed to do once we have children since she obviously cannot be trusted. But the fun doesn’t stop there! She is also deeply paranoid (she told me the FBI watched her home for many years, for example) and straight-up delusional. She believes in a completely literal way that Barack Obama is the son of Satan. She’s also invented her own strange, Old-Testament-style religion that is exactly as paranoid and hateful as you might expect. You should have heard her when she found out we were living together. Something about having to say vows next to a river under the moon and something about blood? But I digress.
My boyfriend is understandably extremely embarrassed by this woman. It is very much his preference that our friends and my family find out as little about her as possible. She is not shy about telling people she barely knows that all gay people, feminists, etc. will burn in a fiery pit when the end times come, for example. Or the whole Obama-as-Satan thing. And we’d wash our hands of her today if it weren’t for his younger siblings.
His younger brother is legally an adult, but for whatever reason he has not chosen to leave her home yet like my boyfriend did. His baby sister is still in high school. Whenever my boyfriend ignores his mother for what she deems an unacceptable length of time, he starts getting calls along the lines of “I’m sending your sister to a Christian institution I found online so they can fix her.” Or she’ll do something else to punish his siblings and then we get calls from them to get my boyfriend to fix it long distance.
We are doing all we can to encourage the kids to get out of that shitshow as soon as possible, but it won’t happen in the immediate future. Her abuse towards them, as far as we know, is strictly emotional, not physical, or we would call the police immediately. Even once we get the baby sister off to college, their mother will still likely have some means to wreak financial havoc on her daughter to get back at her son.
And yes, we did explore trying to have the sister put into our custody, but were advised by a lawyer that the fight their mother would put up in court (primarily because the sister gets Social Security since their father died young) would be beyond us financially and would take longer than the time until the girl turns 18, so it would be best to preserve our ability to communicate with and help her as we can now.
Thankfully, I have a very large and loving family. My boyfriend loves them, and they love him back. His mother is very threatened by me and by extension, them. When we last visited my family, thousands of miles away from where we live, she did her best to keep him on the phone with made-up family drama and told him outright not to mistake my family for his “real family.”
My family loves a good party, and I would like nothing better than to throw one with all 70-plus of them there, especially since I rarely see them. My boyfriend would like a wedding as well, but he isn’t wild about his mother sharing her views on anything with anyone who hasn’t had the misfortune to run into her already. And that’s assuming she even tries to behave, rather than intentionally trying to drive my family off. She spent her own recent wedding to her second husband screaming at people who bent over backwards to help her, calling it one of the worst days of her life, and alienating her new husband’s friends to the point one pulled together an intervention a few days later to convince this poor man to get an annulment. And we really don’t trust her to not throw a fit day-of when we aren’t married by a religious figure (under the moon, next to a river) and then refusing to have intercourse in front of her or whatever the hell she is expecting.
But cutting her out would mean cutting out his siblings as well, which we do not want to do. She would use every sick, twisted thing she could think of to make their lives miserable if she was not invited. And if we didn’t invite any of them and then she found out, she would do the exact same thing. While I loathe this woman, I would never, ever hurt these kids, especially not over a party.
So what’s the best thing to do here? It’s possible she’s scared enough of my influence on her son that we could attempt to strong-arm her in advance into behaving, but that is risky. But if we don’t do that and she acts up, my whole family and all our friends get to know things my boyfriend wants to keep private. They would love him anyway, but he really doesn’t want that to happen. We could just not have a wedding, but that would essentially be letting our personal terrorist win and I lose my chance to have my whole family in one place at one time.
The more I think about it, the more I feel it is necessary to have an action plan to deal with her before we even consider anything else. So what would you do, Sars? Does anyone have successful management strategies for this particular kind of crazy?
My first idea was a tranq gun to match my dress
Dear Tranq,
As I read along with the letter, I kept thinking, “This is emotional terrorism, and you have to stop negotiating with it,” and then I got to the line in which you use almost that exact phrase.
You know what you have to do, I think, but you don’t want to do it because 1) the short-term pain caused by her bonko reaction will make it seem like it’s not worth it, and 2) the long-term pain she could inflict on your boyfriend’s siblings seems like it might far outweigh your own comfort.
I respect those anxieties, but you and your boyfriend have to live your lives, and it’s really best for the two of you, for your future children, and really for your boyfriend’s younger siblings if you cut his mother off, completely, ASAP. The sooner you start dealing with the fallout from that, the sooner you can all move on.
Little Sister doesn’t have that option, but she may be able to get herself emancipated from her mother, or at least bring herself to the attention of a social worker who understands that the woman is not well and does not have the best interests of her children in mind.
So, the first step is to tell Younger Brother and Little Sister that you have to cut Mom dead. You don’t want them to feel abandoned, and they can call you anytime and count on you for whatever help they need — but you can’t help them effectively, or lead happy adult lives of your own, unless and until you extricate yourselves from Mom’s web of nutty, and you hope they’ll understand. Furnish Little Sister with contact information: yours, your family’s, addresses of shelters, numbers for children’s services in her county.
Do some research on emancipation of minors and consider starting that process; my knowledge of that process is derived largely from Law & Order reruns, but if you can get Little Sister a guardian ad litem, I believe he or she can take it from there.
As far as Younger Brother goes, advise him in the strongest possible terms to get out now, because until he does, you can’t really do much for him.
And then cut Mom off. “Your behavior is abusive and toxic. You are not forgiven for the past; you will not get a response in the present. We are done here. Do not contact us.” Do not respond directly to her in any way. I understand that your boyfriend doesn’t want to risk her vomiting a bunch of private information all over your family and friends, but…she’d probably do that anyway, eventually. He can’t control her; nobody can; that’s the crux of the problem here, and the only way to solve it from your end is to stop trying to manage her. Bracing for the worst-case scenario for years on end is usually so much worse than the actual worst case — just let go of it, do your best for the other kids, and trust your own family to see what’s really going on.
But you hit it with “personal terrorist.” She pulls this shit because she knows it works. This isn’t about teaching her that it won’t work in the future, because people like her don’t really learn that lesson. It’s about putting a stop to it for yourselves.
Dear Sars,
I am engaged to a fantastic, wonderful bloke, and we’re getting married in October. We’ve been together for eight years and I am absolutely certain that he is the one for me.
So why, three times in the last month, have I woken up in the middle of the night convinced that I am in bed with my dad? This is really, really weird, isn’t it? Once I actually jumped out of bed and ran to the other end of the house to hide — I had to climb over him to do it so you’d think I would have noticed…
There’s nothing kinky about this, before you start wondering, it’s more like I wake up and just think — why the hell I am in bed with my dad?! It’s like those awful nightmares where you’re suddenly naked. The other two times I have just lain their frozen with terror/embarrassment before realising: wait, no, it’s fine, he’s your boyfriend, not a blood relative.
I think it’s pretty clear that my subconscious is worried that my fiancé will turn out like my dad (we have a good relationship now, but there was an extreeeemely rocky decade after he divorced my mom when I was ten). And I’m also worried about the possibility of divorce — not only my parents but both sets of grandparents got divorced, and part of me worries that it is genetic inevitability that we will too. I always calm myself down by remembering that all of their marriages were a) young, and b) within a few months of meeting each other. We don’t have those issues — we’ve been living together for four years, and I’ve never had a nightmare/experience like this before.
So my questions are a) do I need therapy, because this is seriously weird, and b) if not, how can I make it stop? I’ve been too embarrassed to tell my fiancé the details — I just told him that I woke in the night and didn’t know who he was. He is beginning to find it a bit weird now too, because it’s happened so often.
I never thought I would get cold feet — my conscious mind has no doubts about making this commitment, he is seriously a wonderful person — but clearly I’m wrestling with something here.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Freud would love this
Dear Freud,
I would say a), so that b). I don’t actually think it’s that unusual or fucked up; the dad part is unsettling, of course, but I’m of the belief that everyone in your dreams is you, or a part/version of you. Looking at a dream — or half-waking misapprehension, like yours — from that angle often helps to make sense of it, and reduce the ew somewhat as well.
Perhaps you’re worried about marrying your dad, or someone like him, but perhaps you’re also worried about becoming your dad in a way — not fulfilling your commitment, getting stuck, whatever the anxiety is that you either haven’t articulated to yourself or, for whatever perfectly valid reasons, don’t want to.
A few sessions with a therapist will help to bring any issues and fears out into the light and help you deal with them. But you’re not crazy (at least not for this reason; heh). Your mind is just trying to untie something, and a professional can speed up that process.
In the meantime, just in case, try cutting down a bit on caffeine and making sure you don’t eat close to bedtime (Google “insomnia” for other tips on sleeping better). The last time I had a late-night snack, I wound up dreaming about trying to escape the Winchester House with my “husband” the “firefighter,” played in the dream by my actual cousin’s husband who is an actual industrial engineer, and I woke up all, “…Fuckin’ animal crackers,” so try not to stress yourself out about it unduly.
Tags: boys (and girls) the fam
Wow, Tranq, that is so rough. I’m so sorry.
I agree with Sars’s advice, and would also add that could be very important for the younger siblings to *see* their brother getting out from his mother’s crazyweb and living his own life–not just to know that he can help them if they want to do the same thing (which is also true) but just plain to see that it can be done.
@Tranq gun – Many years ago, I was a guardian ad litem and worked in with social services in cases where kids were removed from their families. With regards to your fiance’s little sister – social services, depending on where she lives, might be willing to remove her based on the emotional abuse she is suffering, his mom’s clear mental issues (especially if she is unwilling to cooperate with first-line intervention services like seeking medical treatment for her mental health issues), and the abuse and neglect that your fiance suffered under her care. Especially the sexual abuse. Parents, if they are aware of abuse and do nothing to do stop it, are liable, both civilly and criminally, for that abuse. If she is removed by social services, the first thing they are going to look for a responsible family member to take her in. It is not clear from your letter where you live in relation to the horrid creature that calls herself a mother, but things might be complicated if you are out-of-state. However, that is not always a barrier in and of itself. In addition to doing what Sars suggested, I would call social/family services in the city or county where the sister lives and report the crap out of the mother.
Good luck with this situation and your relationship. The sister and brother are lucky to have people who care about them in their lives. Not all kids in these situations are so fortunate.
I’m in agreement with most of what was said to Tranq. I will have to throw some doubt, though, on the possibility of emancipation for the younger sister; even if she is in a state that provides for emancipation, that’s for minors who are acting as adults–living on their own and supporting themselves–and thereby need adult status. Courts don’t generally grant it as a way to sever custody without having a custody case, which is what it sounds like the hope here is.
What might be worth looking at for Little Sister, who obviously is the biggest hostage in the emotional terrorism, is finding ways to help her off to college ASAP, maybe even early, and to reduce her need for parental involvement in that process. Find out if you can (if, of course, you’re able to) co-sign loans for her, be her conduit for college visits, be a separate address where she can receive stuff if it makes Mom flip her shit.
I’m not clear whether the suggestion is not inviting Mom to the wedding or not letting Mom’s madness wreck it, but either way, it might be worth having some loyal and, preferably, very large friends on Mom alert to move into neutralization mode when needed. That way it doesn’t have to be the problem of the couple, but it’s also got some controls in place.
Tranq – awful – so sorry. I was just sitting here stressing about my upcoming wedding and then read that.
The only thing I want to say is that, from my limited experience with family members with mental health issues, is that this kind of thing can definitely be hereditary – so watch out for younger brother and sis – especially with younger bro not taking healthy steps yet to extract himself from the household. Best of luck.
Freud – don’t forget too – you are under huge wedding stress. November, for me, is looming – and while I’m so ridiculously happy and excited, the thoughts of everything that still has to get done are overwhelming – and I’m a professional event planner by day. So, chat with someone a few times, get some stuff out on the table, and do what you can to relax before October – and enjoy it all! Day by day!
Hey Tranq – This, of course, is one of those situations where it’s real easy for a stranger to say “just get it all out in the open!”. But I think your boyfriend needs to be able to tell people the basic facts about his mother. It doesn’t have to be the gorey details, but a succinct statement to your parents & siblings is kind of important, especially if you’re looking into guardianship for the sister.
“My mother is servery mentally ill, and I’ve cut her out of my life completely.”
Keeping a situation like this a secret means that the mom still has some power over him. If you prepare the people who need to know & tell them what her behavior might be like if she gets wind of a party or wedding, you don’t have to worry about it as much.
Nothing about her behavior is his fault, and it’s nothing he should be embarrassed about. It sounds like your friends & fam know him well enough to know that her behavior isn’t a reflection of him. You don’t mention if he’s been to therapy, but I hope he’s gotten some help.
He sounds like a survivor, and you’re both doing a great thing for the brother & sister.
Tranq – Exactly what Sars said. EXACTLY. In my husband’s case, the siblings were their own brand of f’ed up and eventually sided with his mom, but Sars’ suggestions are spot-on: make it clear that you love them and will support them in getting away from Mommy Dearest, but you WILL NOT bow to her abusive demands. She’s not part of your lives and you won’t concern yourself with anything she does. If the siblings are on the side of good, they should be willing to go with it, but be prepared for them to play both sides until they figure out which is in their best interest. (That’s not a condemnation, but a natural response for kids who have been abused, and I don’t blame them all.) Stay calm and consistent, and the sibs will figure out that you’re prepared to cut them off if they use her twisted tactics as well. Above all, you’re modeling that loving and healthy relationships will flourish and abusive relationships will not be tolerated – a great lesson for young adults and teens.
Don’t invite the lady to the wedding. If you’re worried about her showing up uninvited, ask a couple of friends to play bouncer (at least one who looks big and beefy and one who can physically stop Mom from causing injury if she’s so inclined, with the understanding that those two might not be the same person). And then, by all means, throw your party and have a fantastic time. Best of luck to you both.
Tranq,
Please do what Ex-CINA lawyer above advised and call social services as quickly as possible to see if they will intervene.
My husband was emotionally abused by his mother from the time he was 9 until he left for college and it was enabled by his father. There were attempts at physical abuse but my husband fought back. He almost called social services on himself to get out of the house but he was so worried about being taken out of school that he didn’t do it. I have a fantasy that if I ever get a time machine I will go back and call Children and Family Services on his mother and get them out of the house.
My husband is to this day is deeply pained that he didn’t have anyone in his corner growing up. Not a teacher, family friend or relative stepped in to help him or his brother. Please start making phone calls as soon as you can to help little sister and brother.
I can’t advise on the wedding because we didn’t have to worry about her attending ours as she was dead by then.
@Freud: When I got engaged, I had terrible nightmares about not being able to find my wedding. I was dressed in my wedding dress roaming around the city trying to find the church and could never find it. Sometimes I would run into family members and ask them for help, and they would say “sorry kid, hope you make it, if not I’ll enjoy the cake for you” or something like that. Sometimes there were zombies or biker gangs or zombie biker gangs. I would wake up sobbing and stricken with gut-boiling fear. When it wasn’t the “I can’t find my wedding” nightmare, it was the super-fun “Police at my door telling me my fiance is dead” nightmare. I talked to the minister who was officiating our wedding, and she said she had known several brides-to-be who had similar nightmares after getting engaged, and that she thought it was our mind’s way of trying to work out the implications of a new level of commitment to, and dependence on, another person. I never talked to a therapist, because the minister was great, but talking to a professional definitely helped me process it and put it in perspective.
I can’t help but look at this letter and see beyond the immediate problem presented here. The short-term question for you is what to do about a crazy and possibly dangerous mother-in-law at your wedding. But there are other issues in the background. I don’t want to be negative, but I have had relationships with people who were raised by abusive families. At first these people seemed wonderful, and I was incredibly impressed with how they had risen above the instability and craziness they were raised with. Over time I began to see that they hadn’t. There was damage – pretty serious damage. But you seem to have no worries about this re your fiance, so I won’t go on about it.
Here is a suggestion – and I hope you don’t think I am making fun of you, because I am not. Maybe you could help your fiance write a Jeannette Walls/Augusten Burroughs style memoir. You would be set for life!
Anyway, good luck to you in dealing with what will surely be a difficult group of in-laws. Try to be patient and strong. Maybe you can bring some peace and stability to this family. But if you can’t, don’t beat yourself up over it.
Tranq, A)congrats on your wedding and B)Keey-rist.
I agree with Sars that you already know what to do and are dreading it, with good and myriad reasons. Your fiancee and his siblings have had to “manage” this nutjob for years and years and you’ve had to join in for quite a while, so it’s completely normal that you see this management as, well, normal.
It’s time for a new normal, for yourself, your loved ones, and especially those poor kids. It sounds like you’ve already done research into practicalities and the guardian ad litum sounds like a great idea–once little sister is taken care of legally, little brother might gain confidence/not feel guilty for moving on. But regardless of what they choose to do (not that you’re cutting them off, but you can’t manage their lives any more than your mother’s) what you’re really dreading is your mother’s talent for a truly epic shit show, right? And who could blame you.
Here’s where I get philisophical. No, really. I’m going to derive some advice from Seneca, who was the founder of the Stoic school. In essence, his ideas centered on the fact that you cannot control the events of your lives, only your response to those events. Unhappiness comes from trying to convince Fortune to like you, or avoid tormenting you.
Once, a freind came to Seneca in a panic because he’d been falsely accused of bribery and was facing a prison term, ruin, bankruptcy, etc. Seneca wrote him and said that to get through what might happen, he needed to focus on the worst case scenario. He advised the friend to lock himself in a bare cell for a week and eat bread and water, so he could experience and adjust himself to the worst that might happen. It wouldn’t make it fun or magically keep it from happening–but it would help him realize and cope with the actual problem, not his panic about what-ifs that were paralyzing him. And once he knew he could deal with going to prison, he had an inner strength to draw on.
I’m not suggesting you expose yourself to this she-demon in any way: you already know what she is and what she’s like. What I am suggesting is sitting down together (perhaps with a counselor)and calmly putting together the absolute worst case scenario for the wedding. She shows up and starts her shit storm and embarrasses your fiancee? Than that’s what she does. Have a plan in place for that. She threatens his siblings? Have a plan in place for that.
Organize your thoughts and the fear she uses as a weapon will be controllable, not a swirling cloud of devils persuing you.
Emotional terrorism is right. Time to cut this off at the knees.
Whoops, sorry, I meant “his” mother’s talent in the first paragraph, there.
Thanks for publishing my letter! It couldn’t be more timely, because we had a long conversation yesterday about the possibility of his sister coming to live with us. His mother and her new husband are pushing for it, actually, so they can have whatever ridiculous tween-style romantic fantasy life together without the allegedly horrible teenage girl wrecking it all. The conversation came about because their mother is currently threatening to shave Little Sister’s head and force her to repeat her junior year of high school because Little Sister stole money from her to buy tampons and books for school.
So further information for the hive: First, we are not even remotely worried about the mother being bonkers at us when we do cut her off. Whatever her reaction is, it will just make it easier to get a restraining order. And then we will have a party to celebrate. It’s strictly the concern about what she would do to Little Sister keeping us involved because the mother is so unstable. This woman once killed a puppy with her bare hands because she was mad at it for pooping on the floor. That kind of unstable.
And at this point, it is clear to me that this horrible woman will not ever be meeting my extended family at our wedding. It’s way past that now. Our only concern at the moment is getting Little Sister graduated from high school and on the right path. It’s just a question of what the best way to do that is.
We live in California, as do his family. My family is entirely on the East Coast, so his mother’s ability to fuck with them is limited, as is their ability to help us in person. I have no experience at all with various Child Protective services. I want to call them, but my boyfriend is against it. He’s convinced Little Sister would end up in foster care at best, and that at worst, we’d fail in convincing the state to remove her or to get their mother help and her mother would go nuclear.
Just for context, their mother did spend a large part of her life in the foster care system, and it’s my understanding that the first few places were more lateral moves from the bio family she was removed from than improvements. She’s told her son about it at length, largely to scare him off ever telling any authority about her when he was being abused. And that clearly worked.
If we did get Little Sister, I have no idea if the schools around here are shitboxes, and allowing for the legal proceedings even with their mother’s consent, Little Sister would be moving right in the middle of her college application process, which I’m not sure really serves her long term interests. In a perfect world, I think the best thing would be to keep her where she is to finish school, while the county takes a keen interest in the mother’s mental health, but I don’t know if that is possible. Does anyone know?
I am of the same mind as Sars in the long term re: Mom From Hell, but in the short term as far as the wedding, if you want his siblings to be a part of it, she’s going to be there. Do you have a relative or close friend that you can trust to let them in on certain things you do not want publicized to the family as a whole, and handle bad situations discreetly and tactfully? Make sure its someone who has authority-a close relative or member of the bridal party. Explain to the situation to them and ask them to be on MomFromHell duty-seat them at her table, and tell them the SECOND she starts being inappropriate/offensive, she is to be escorted from the premises.
@Tranq–thanks so much for the update! And I have to say, even if it has temporary negative effects on her college application process, there’s no question that you need to get Little Sister out of that house as soon as possible. Schools in your area might not be ideal, heck, she may need to repeat her senior year–still outweighs the alternative, if what you’re saying is true. Killing an animal as you described is not a red flag; it’s a red klaxon horn. This is now a physical safety issue. Get her out now and deal with the consequences later.
Hi Tranq,
As you’re all in California and the parents are now willing, I’d immediately get in touch with a kinship placement organisation (one such in CA is http://www.kinshipcenter.org/, but there are others) and ask for information and assistance with the process. They will be able to advise you on how best to proceed, as well as providing information on what kind of supports are available to Sis if she does remain in her mother’s house while she finishes up this year. (For mine, it sounds like the escalating trauma she’s experiencing is more dangerous than a change of circumstances would be, but it may be a case of better-the-devil-you-know.) These organisations would also be great resources for therapists and support groups to help all of the family (yourself included) deal with the mess that is this woman.
Good luck. It’s a long road, but there are resources available to help you along the way, and that party, when you’re finally able to throw it, will feel so fucking good.
@Tranq–I agree Jen S’s suggestion about thinking about the worst-case scenario, and I think you could also apply it to Little Sister coming to live with you. I know the social services system in a lot of places is pretty fucked-up, but from what you’ve described, it sounds like it would be pretty easy to convince them that the absolute worst thing that could happen would be to stay with her mom. So then, if she comes to live with you, what’s the worst case? That her college application process gets delayed? So she works for a year, saves up some money, figures out what it’s like to function in a normal family situation, and goes to school next year (and if you get a forwarding order from the postal service, her mail should come to you pretty easily anyway). I don’t want to be dismissive–I would be completely terrified of this woman in your situation, and there aren’t really any good options; just, from an outside perspective, the negatives you list for having her come live with you are far outweighed by the negatives of letting her stay in a house with a woman who strangled a puppy.
With all due respect, Tranq, seeing your update, I think two things:
First, if things are as terrible as all that (plus it also sounds as though DevilMom is denying Little Sis money for her basic needs) the long-range good is almost certainly to be on the side of getting Sis out of that situation immediately. It’s not a matter of life or death if she doesn’t hop into college right after high school, or has to retake a couple of courses. I know quite a number of people who’ve only chosen to go to (university, in this country) as full adults, and several who have taken qualifying high school courses in their late 20s as adult applicants, and they have all been juuuuust fine. In many cases, indeed, I’d say better than fine, because they knew what their goals were, and knew why they were doing it, unlike many fresh-out-of-high-school teens who are just there because they think they “should be”.
On the other hand, it is quite possible that as DevilMom sees Sis on the point of being able to get out from under her control (and taking the Social Security cheques with her) she will get increasingly irrational, and do even worse harm. I don’t see that there is honestly much to be gained from making Little Sis tough it out when she doesn’t absolutely have to.
Second… Boyfriend is basing his reluctance to call in authorities on – evil fairytales DevilMom told him to keep him under her thumb? With all due respect, perhaps you should get a second opinion. From a lawyer, or a counsellor, or a social services worker, or all three. See if his mental worst-case scenarios have any basis in fact before pre-emptively shutting down the options. I understand that some individual instances of foster care can be terrible, but it isn’t always, and he might be completely mistaken in that in fact being the line of first resort in a case like this.
Very best wishes to all of you in getting through this with minimal drama and good outcomes for the younger siblings.
Tranq, thanks for the update!
And I’ve got to agree, I can’t believe any foster situation would be more horrible than a woman threatening to shave your head after you had to steal money for tampons while she strangled a puppy. This is “RED ALERT NOW! RUN!” time. Again, worst-case scenarios:
Worst Case Scenario for Sister Leaving/Foster Care: Delayed college applications, working/saving money, not being in the most hair-raising situation I’ve heard of in a long, long time (and I’m participating in the My Sweet Audrina thread!)
Worst Case Scenario for Sister Staying: She ends up badly injured or dead. Seriously, this woman is flat out off the rails no contact with reality crazy and getting worse.
Also, Sister is what, 17 or so? She wouldn’t be in foster care that long anyway, it’s not the same thing she’d be dealing with if she were twelve and had no strong, good people fighting in her corner. Ferretrick is right in that your fiancee’s perception of foster care is perhaps being colored by his long term exposure to his mom’s nuttery. No, foster care isn’t perfect but it’s a helluva sight better than this Trainload of Bad. Just keep saying “The new normal, it’s a tough road but so worth it when we get there.”
And @Freud–I second the advice to work this out with a professional, but mostly because it’s reassuring to hear that this kind of thing is perfectly normal, which I think it is. I mean, semi-dreaming about being in the same bed as your dad is really weird, but the subconscious is REALLY WEIRD. And making a big commitment is always a little scary, which can up the weirdness factor even more. So, in the sense that the dreams are making you uncomfortable, absolutely you should try to work them out or make them go away or whatever, but it doesn’t sound from here like you have anything deeper than that going on.
Also, in what way can she force Little Sister to repeat junior year? If she’s got the grades to move to the next level, that’s up to the school authorities, isn’t it? NOT HER? Seriously, is this possible? I can’t believe a random parent can march into a public school and demand her daughter repeat a grade. It sounds, not to put to fine a point on it, bonkers. Another example of her version of power not matching up to the real, actual world.
(Also, @Katherine, it was you who pointed out the “foster care might not be the Spawn of Moloch Mom says it is”, sorry!)
@JS, Jen – It may sound strange, but we’re not necessarily concerned about Little Sister’s physical safety. The puppy murder was about 15 years ago. For whatever reason, their mother reserved the physical abuse for the boys, about 90% of it at my boyfriend. She also has a brand new husband in the house, they just got married in June, and while he may be totally love-blind at the moment, he does intervene to a small extent and would certainly stop any physical confrontations. And in any case, one of the frustrating things about dealing with this woman is that she walks right up to the line of “Time to call the police/men with white coats/etc” then leaves little evidence so it becomes a he said/she said issue. Especially now that she isn’t hitting her kids. She’s only gotten better at it over the years (I think the physical abuse ended largely because she realized she’d get caught and that emotional abuse was even more fun), which is why I’m concerned that if we got the county involved, she’d only put on her best poor-me face and we’d lose.
We also live about five hours away from them all, and this girl is sixteen. We asked her about coming to live with us, and even though she hates her mother, she doesn’t want to leave her friends, her activities, her teachers and classes, etc. That stuff is the best part of her life right now. Getting her out of there is best, but being responsible for a teenager who hates me (and I would be doing most of the raising) because she hates being away from all that and who may not fit in in a new place? Her current school is also making some allowances for her schedule-wise because she had some academic misadventures following her father’s death and her mother’s subsequent mission to replace him, and I’m not sure we could replicate that down here with a school that doesn’t know her. Part of me thinks, well, it’s been nearly 17 years, what’s another 9 months as long as anything at all is making her happy?
@Lucy, Katharine – It would be great if we were settled enough for Little Sister to come live with us and take as long as she needed to find her way. But we’re not all that settled ourselves. My boyfriend is military, and I would give it 60-40 odds that we would be moving long distance with almost no notice next summer, and if that doesn’t happen, it’s 90-10 odds for the summer after that. And that’s if he doesn’t get deployed. If that happens, then I get to be a 20-something single mother to a teenager, and if it were to happen before we manage to get married, I wouldn’t actually have any legal connection to her. It seems like college, any college even if she intended to transfer, would be a more stable influence on her life than we could be over the next four years or so which is why I’m thinking so much about it.
@Tranq–oof, that does make it tricky. While reading these I’ve been thinking about my boyfriend’s nephew, who is just about 18 months old now, and how his mother is all kinds of evil, and how I’d have no real idea what to do in a situation where the living environment got seriously unhealthy. Sorry you have to deal with this, and good luck!
Isn’t one of the first thing Child Services does is check to see if there’s a family member who can take in the child? Or have I watched too many Judging Amy episodes? (What?! Tyne Daly was awesome.) I can’t imagine they’d go with a foster home with Brother & Tranq stepping up. And even if they did, I’d really like to believe the instances of puppy strangling would be less than at home.
With DevilMom showing some weakness on the subject at the moment, now would be timely intervention indeed. Of course, the other possibility is that DevilMom would reverse course and double down on controlling access to Sis, but that’s always gonna be a possibility you should be preparing for.
Good luck to you all.
@Tranq: Not A Lawyer here, but it seems that calling CPS and making a report about boyfriend’s mom might be a good idea. Even if you don’t expect (or intend) for it to go anywhere.
Because that way, when she calls CPS and tells them stories about how you’re doing all sorts of awful things to your boyfriend’s younger sister, then you can say “this is retaliation for the report we filed earlier”.
Just like Nightjack said: Always be the first one to complain.
@Jen – Of course the mother can’t do that. It’s just the latest in a long line of insane things she thinks she can do through force of will. Past examples include thinking she could sign her daughter up for shock treatments separate from any kind of counseling (as if she would ever let the girl talk openly to any sort of authority figure) and that writing into her living will that she isn’t allowed to be placed into a nursing facility in her old age means we are legally obligated to care for her in our home. She was looking right at me when she told us that. Bitch, please.
Tranq–hopefully somebody else here will have more specific info than I do, but it sounds in your update like you’re thinking that there’s a way that social services can make your future MIL behave better while leaving the kid in the house. I really don’t think there is one. If Little Sis stays, she’s staying in the home you know and describe.
Whether that’s worse than moving or not, I dunno; I’m both underinformed and inexpert. It’s also not clear if the current situation would rise to the level of needing removal in the eyes of CPS, as the signs of current danger to the child aren’t particularly strong, or whether there are benefits from having CPS at least check out the situation and be aware of it. It’s not like there’s a court case you’re trying to externally support here.
But you’ve got a clear shot at maternal permission here; if you can operate that way, you don’t need CPS. Without committing yourself to anything, you can check with the local school to see what you’d need in the way of legalities to get your sister admitted there. Maybe you wouldn’t need to have legal custody as long as your physical custody was with the parent’s written permission. Maybe it’s got district reciprocity with her current school. You can also check online to see if the local school is doom incarnate, but honestly, it sounds like unless it’s physically dangerous that’s the least of the worries in the situation–it’s not like she’s going to be there that long if she’s starting senior year now, and I can’t imagine she’s able to operate at her best in her current environment. (You might also see if somebody in the know at the local hospital can tell you what you’d need to have to authorize her treatment if she has an emergency while with you.)
Maybe you said and I missed it, but has Little Sis herself been consulted on this at all? She’s old enough that her desires would be taken into consideration in court, certainly, and I’d say her opinion on the school matter is particularly relevant. If she’s got a tight social system at school, it might be tougher on her to lose that than to stay with her mom; conversely, she might be desperate to get out and perfectly happy to make a dozen phone calls to change app addresses with colleges.
Good luck with whatever you do; she’s lucky to have you all looking out for her. And while this problem kind of ate the wedding question, do have a wonderful wedding!
Tranq-As someone who grew up in a very similar situation, let me tell you that just because there is no physical abuse, does not mean no damage is being done. The bruises on my body healed a lot faster than the bruises on my psyche, and it took me years of intensive therapy to get to a place where I felt functional. As far as foster care, yes, there are bad homes – but both my sister and I spent time in separate foster homes, and for both of us, I can quite literally say they saved our lives, if not from the abuse we were undergoing at home, but from the self-destructive behaviour it caused us to engage in because of it. We were both in high school when we were removed and put into foster care (and eventually placed with relatives who were also already qualified foster parents), and over twenty years later still maintain contact with our respective foster parents.
Little sister may be reluctant to leave the situation, because this has been her life. It’s all she knows, and she thinks, as all abused children do, that this is how everyone lives. Until you’re removed from the situation, you’re essentially a hostage suffering a bad case of Stockholm syndrome. Another year or so may not seem like that much time, but I know that in my case, it probably made the difference between being able to eventually be a functioning adult, and being another kid who killed herself with alcohol, drugs, and other destructive behaviour.
Tranq – Two things:
If you’re concerned that this will affect her college app process (either staying and living with a batshit insane person, or in the chance she moves in with you), please consider alerting the colleges she applies to of her living circumstances.
Also, perhaps if she stays her senior year and finishes high school at her current location, she could come stay with you for christmas/spring breaks and next summer vacation. That way she could minimize facetime with crazylady and also get to hang out with noncrazy people.
@Tranq
I’ve done some work on guardianships/family law in California. CAVEAT: This isn’t legal advice. I’m not YOUR lawyer. Don’t do this without consulting someone in a formal capacity (I might be able to give you some names, or at least some direction).
First, you don’t need legal custody to enroll Sister in school, just an affidavit of residence with you. HOWEVER, if Mom is in agreement, it may be best to get Guardianship of Sister. This gives you “custody.” The court will order an investigation by a court investigator, but its not as in-depth and painful (and criminal) as CPS. No foster care is involved, but if its in her best interests, the court will likely order the guardianship(and by the time Mom wants to challenge this, Sister will be 18). This avoids the heart wrenching trip through juvenile dependency (that’s where CPS will lead you) that will terminate Mom’s rights (a much tougher standard although sounds like it could be done) and takes months, even years.
Second, while school may be a lifesaver for her right now, it may be the thing that keeps her in a horrible situation. Better to get her out and have her finish school somewhere else, despite the horrible transition of it all, then have her end up Dead On Side of Road somewhere (or worse). She’s close to going to college – get yourselves appointed legal guardians for her so you can make those decisions WITH her.
Third, and it bears repeating, talk to an experienced attorney ASAP about this stuff. Mom hurt your fiance, she’s hurting Brother and Sister.
@Sars – feel free to give my info to Tranq should she need it.
Tranq – switch the genders and remove the siblings, and I swear that is the same story as a childhood friend’s. I had really hoped her story was rare. VERY rare.
All I can tell you from my friend’s wedding is that she survived only because her mother was doped up with powerful anti-psychotics and everyone there was fully aware of what she was like. Do you think your bf’s mother is mentally ill and dangerous enough to warrant commitment? (As my friend’s mother was… several times.) It might be the only way to get her some help, and open the door for the rest of the family to get a handle on things. I know that is extreme, but gods, my heart still contracts when I think about the first time my friend’s mother came after her with a screwdriver. Getting the mother on anti-psychotics made her at least slightly more livable and rational (although, they don’t let their children anywhere near her).
All the best of luck to you.
Tranq – might it be possible for her to live with someone else close to her mom’s house? A friend, maybe? A friend of my brother’s lived with us for several years when I was in middle school while his parents were dealing with drug problems; I don’t know how it was worked out legally but he just moved in one day and stayed with us until he didn’t need to anymore. Even if she can’t live with someone else, can she maybe keep a box of stuff at their house – someone she trusts, so she’ll have emergency clothes, cash, etc.?
Also, can you set up a joint bank account in her name and your fiance’s name, or some other sort of financial agreement (send her VISA gift cards regularly?) so she doesn’t have to rely on her mother for any necessities? Maybe she could keep the information for this account at her friend’s house also, so her mom never knows about it.
I agree with whichever wise commenter pointed out that cutting off all contact with the mother is probably really helpful for the younger siblings, even though it doesn’t feel like it. Right now it looks (to them) like whatever they do, they will never escape. They need to know that they can, and you will be there to help them.
Good luck.
@Tranq — Do you know much about Little Sister’s friends by any chance? Is she running with a pretty stable crowd (at the risk of stereotyping anybody)? I’m just wondering if it would be possible for her to guest room surf for her senior year. The whole year might be a big burden for one family (and may potentially burn up a friendship)–even if you could spare some room/board cash, but maybe she could rotate a couple weeks or month at a time? Or part time between friends and home? Your place for long holidays? I don’t know how flexible Little Sister is–living at friends’ houses might be awkward…but maybe she’s semi-doing that already if things are rough at home. I guess then you might be putting the burden of parenting on…other unsuspecting parents rather than volunteer foster parents.
@Tranq
Does Little Sister have any friends whose family would be willing to host her until she finishes school? I knew a few people at my high school who had these kind of informal placements because of problems at home. It might be worth looking into, at least until she’s eighteen.
@Sarah – I would love more direction if Sars can hook us up. I’ve spent the better part of the day on the phone with anyone I can think of who has had any interaction with child protective services, and I’m still not sure what to do other than to get my boyfriend to see reason on the “CPS is evil” issue.
As I mentioned above, my boyfriend is military, and to make it all work out for us financially, Little Sister would have to be his dependent. He gets paid more if she is, and we would need that money to get a larger apartment here in Metro Area, among other things. There is also the matter of Little Sister’s Social Security benefit, and I suspect that’s where their mother would suddenly have A Problem if we made any sort of informal arrangement. That’s what makes me suspicious of her alleged willingness to let Little Sister go. She’s said many, many times that the benefit is for “them” and I’m fairly certain she’s using it to pay her mortgage.
@Jane – I’m hoping less for “better behavior” and more for “involuntary commitment” or “court-mandated counseling.”
Tranq: Everyone else is being really helpful with the sticky legal and emotional stuff involved, so I won’t interfere with that.
But here’s my two cents on the wedding thing. Your best bet is to get married with your family and the big party and no proveably insane people there, even if the siblings have to miss it. Later, when you can get them to visit without the crazy lady, have a small party or even a vow renewal that they can be a part of.
Feel free to email me for @Sarah’s email info.
Tranq–I don’t think involuntary commitment sounds likely, from what you’re describing as the current state (she’s not been judged too crazy to be around by her spouse and housemate adult kid, and she’s neither committing any crimes nor presenting a physical threat to herself and others), and court-mandated counseling comes when the court gets involved–in other words, when there’s a legal case that’s gone before a judge. I can understand why those options sound helpful, but I don’t think they’re really there. The closest thing would be a guardian ad litem, but that too is an appointment that exists when there’s a legal case in the works, not just to monitor a situation.
I would actually give a fair bit of weight to the fact that Little Sis apparently wants to stay where she is (and at her age, the courts likely would too). Peers are more important than family to most people that age already, and for her that’s probably even truer. To me the ideal would be minimizing the family stuff while allowing her to keep her current desired peer anchors. As suggested, negotiating a stay with a friend’s family for the school year is one possibility, or even just being in contact with the involved parents of one of her friends, so that you can formalize a bit of an oasis by kicking in for, you know, tampons and stuff that live in a place where she can safely get to them. You can offer other kinds of concrete indications of support–phone cards, for instance, to make sure she can always call you, involvement with the college plans, and breaks away from the house with you when you can manage it. And definitely by modeling the distance from her mother that you already have sensibly decided is necessary.
Good luck!
For Tranq – oh, my goodness. I’m so sorry. If you do decide to invite The Crazy to your wedding, I’d suggest hiring security guards to watch her and warning her beforehand that she’ll be hauled out and barred from reentry if she acts up. I’d also give your family and friends a heads-up on what to expect. They sound wonderful and I bet they’d be sympathetic.
I also think emancipation for the younger sis is a great option to explore. My understanding is that it would cut financial ties between sis and mom, but a lawyer can tell you for sure.
Although I’m in the camp that says she shouldn’t get invited to the wedding, I definitely recommend having a bouncer of some kind.
My mother-in-law can be a bit of a pill. She doesn’t rise to the level of crazy that warrants legal action, but she does rise to the level of crazy that makes me want to put hubby on a plane a couple times a year so that I don’t have to go with him to visit her. (He’s disabled, and the distance is too long for him to drive there alone.)
She is very loud, doesn’t like me, and I was terrified that she was going to make a big stink at our wedding, which was VERY small. As it was, in all the pictures, she looks more like she’s attending a funeral than a wedding. I wasn’t worried about physical violence, I just didn’t want to have to put up with her “blah blah disrespectful choice of married name blah blah” crabby-cakes. At any rate, I asked my best friend to be a sort of “bridal bouncer”, and physically put herself between me and MIL anytime she got close. Worked like a dream. I didn’t have to suffer MIL much that day, and after the fact, MIL commented on how friendly and charming my friend is.
Definitely make sure that you have some people lined up to manage her. Someone big enough to defend themselves against her if she goes rabid, with enough experience and sense of humor to suffer minimal damage from the “you’re going to hell” nonsense.
@Tranq – I cannot recommend strongly enough that you start making some kind of official filing re: FMIL’s behavior toward her daughter. Because, although the immediate problem is of course getting LS out of harm’s way, getting her into college is not going to be any kind of cakewalk if FMIL can hold her financial information hostage. I had to take six years off from college when my (abusive in oh, so very many ways) father decided that he wasn’t going to even give me copies of his taxes anymore (he had never given me a penny of financial assistance), because my college would not give me any financial aid without his information. Until I could prove that I had cut all contact for at least five years, they wouldn’t give me one red cent. Having something legally filed, stating that her mother is dangerous to her, will help with the financial part of getting her into college and out of harm’s way.
(And seriously? LS having to move schools for her senior year will not be that bad if she can finally do things like, you know…have supplies for her period and not have to worry about waking up bald.)
Haven’t read the comments yet, but wanted to add – younger sibs (and, frankly, Fiancé) need to monitor their credit scores RELIGIOUSLY; I would not put it past this woman to take out loans in their names, using their SSNs. That’s the last bit of control she has over them after they move out; they need to be very careful, or their financial lives will be ruined. It seems like a small thing, compared to the emotional and physical abuse she has *already* inflicted on them, but it’s still an important thing.
Tranq:
My first husband grew up with a mother who sounds almost identical to what you’re describing, except for the religious stuff. (All the way down to the Social Security checks, the younger brother who stayed, and joining the military. Did your MIL-to-be also “teach the kids about sex” by sitting them down, ages 11, 9, 8, and 5, in front of a hardcore porn movie?)
I will spare you the harrowing details of the fallout as it slowly manifested over the years with my first husband, but I will say: Read Tim’s comment carefully. Your boyfriend is an amazing, strong, awesome person to have survived this – but I PROMISE you there are scars. Being strong and amazing isn’t enough.
My first husband’s mother, V, shaved her daughter’s head (for being four minutes late on her curfew). The daughter, T, ran away from home a few times; Child Services was involved, but never stepped in beyond suggesting V seek counseling and telling T she’d be 18 soon enough. V had stopped short of physical abuse on T – the headshaving was the most physical of the abuse she inflicted on T; all the rest was psychological, so there “wasn’t enough evidence.” (This was some 20 years ago, when “emotional abuse” was still smirked at.)
T left home when she was 17, trying to escape as her two elder brothers had done. V kept drawing her back, reminding T that she had never “really” abused T, that they were the only women in a family full of evil men and they had to stick together. T never really got free of V’s web.
T killed herself when she was 24, and left a 3-year-old daughter. V got custody of the baby, C, and raised her, but C ran away from home at age 15 and was found dead a year or so later.
PLEASE don’t wait to get LS out of there. My first husband and I talked about having T come live with us, but because he was in the military, we were stationed overseas, and she was in her junior year of high school (seriously, the similarities are EERIE), we decided not to pursue it – even though I myself was raised in the military and went to three different high schools and was a perfect example of how it is pretty much a non-issue. We didn’t step in as far as we could have, and I regret it constantly.
Christ. I’m a bit confused – am I still in the V.A. Andrews-universe?
Can’t add anything practical, just “oh my”. (My own family drama diminishes to “broke a finger nail”-level.)
@Tranq:
I just got married a few weeks ago to a wonderful man who grew up in a similiar situation (minus the actual physical abuse)with a mentally unstable mother. He has very little contact with her, save for birthdays and holidays. I have met her once, and she has never directly spoken to me.
About 4 months before our wedding he approached his mother and tried to speak to her calmly about whether or not she wanted to be included–she did not, due to the fact that 2 of her ex husbands and her sisters would be in attendance, and she hates all of them (her words). A week before the wedding she called my husband and told him that it was her “right” as his mother to be at the church. They had a long discussion, and he left off saying that he would let her know where and when the wedding was if he decided she could come. He never called her back, and (as far as we know) she wasn’t at the ceremony.
That’s how it worked out for us, and there’s a lot more going on in your situation, but as my mother put it, “call her bluff”. Try to talk to her about it, and if she insists she has to be there, pray that she knows how to behave in public.
Speaking from (very recent) experience, I wasted a lot of time worrying about what that crazy woman would do, and on the day it never mattered. We had the best time, and I married the man of my dreams.
@Tranq: Oy. Just … oy.
I want to say first of all that although I understand and agree with all the advice that it certainly sounds from the outside like letting LS live with you so she can get away from Mom is the way to go, if the law isn’t ready to declare that Mom can’t have her anymore — which may require your boyfriend to do stuff he isn’t willing to do right now — having her live with you may not be one of your choices if, for instance, Mom does indeed refuse to let you formalize the arrangement because she doesn’t want to lose the Social Security money. For you to call CPS over your boyfriend’s objection is something that, for reasons I suspect are obvious and you have thought about, carries many, many risks for all the involved relationships. If Mom doesn’t have a legal case against her that would force LS out of the home, and LS doesn’t want to live with you because she doesn’t want to leave her friends, there may not be a way to force that — especially if all Mom and LS have to do is point out that you and BF aren’t married, you’ll probably have to move, he might be deployed … what I’m trying to say is: there exists the possibility that you aren’t going to be able to solve this from where you sit. Does that mean you shouldn’t try? Of course not.
But I just want to tell you from where I sit that you are doing everything right. You are trying, you care about everyone, you’re appropriately fearless but appropriately cautious … you’re doing just fine. Everybody here is giving you thoughts and ideas and information, but you seem to me to have outstanding instincts, so my primary advice is to stay involved and keep caring and trying, and you will do the right thing. Everybody should be so lucky as to have somebody as willing to extend herself as you are, given the fact that it seems like it’s pretty thankless.
Tranq – with regard only to the wedding question – would it be possible to have your mom put the wedding party together for you, out where your family lives; and arrange for the siblings to come out for a “visit” or trip with you to there when the time comes? If you don’t tell them what’s going to be happening, they won’t be able to accidentally tip off crazymom. You could always tell them that a family party of yours or whatever is happening so they bring a nice outfit.
You deserve a fun wedding with your family. Why should crazymom be a limiting factor? The further the party is away from her, the less likely she will try to crash it even if she did know about it in advance; but better if she doesn’t, and better not to entrust the siblings with the secret as long as they live with her.