The Vine: August 2, 2001
Dear Sars,
You’re right on in suggesting that people whose relationship partners have addiction problems would benefit from support groups or counseling (like Formerly Co-Dependent) — but I think it’s really important to point out that there are alternatives to Al-Anon (and AA). I know plenty of people who’ve benefited from these 12-step programs, but I also know people (including myself) who’ve felt alienated by aspects of their philosophy or beliefs. And believe me, when you really feel alone and you need help and you think Al-Anon is your last resort, alienation is an awful thing to feel. So please, when you encourage people to seek out Al-Anon or AA, let them know they can consider alternatives, too. Some cities and counties have low-cost mental health programs available; many universities have counseling centers that include group counseling; some cities (like my own) have non-profit community mental health centers that operate on a sliding scale. They may take a little more effort to find than Al-Anon or AA, but it’s a mistake to assume that 12-step programs are the one size that fits all. For some people, looking for an alternative may be the best answer.
Can’t Even Do the Texas Two-Step
Dear Can’t Even,
That’s an excellent point. A lot of people don’t love the quasi-religious aspects of AA, and in that case, another support group might work better for them. The local phone book is usually quite helpful in this area.
Hey Sars,
I love love love Tomato Nation! You are a superbly intelligent writer and I always look forward to The Vine and all your other writings.
I’m writing in regards to Virgin Piña Colada. I thought your advice was right on, but I wanted to add a couple thoughts. She may want to consider waiting to find a guy who isn’t going to make her feel dumb and inexperienced because she is 25 and a virgin. She doesn’t need an insensitive boy to exacerbate her self-consciousness and feelings of dorkiness. These men are out there! I know because I’ve found one.
Also, please let her know that she is not alone. I’m a 27-year-old virgin and I’m not waiting for marriage or because of religion. I’m just waiting till I’m ready. However long that may be. I don’t think there are a lot of us, but then I don’t exactly tell anyone as it’s a personal and private matter and nobody’s business but mine.
Dude, being a virgin sucks, but whatever. The upside is that there are no worries about birth control, pregnancy, or STDs. Being a virgin isn’t a big deal unless you make it a big deal.
Yours,
Still Waiting
Dear Still,
I hope I conveyed that in my response — that she should do whatever makes her comfortable, and that obviously she should wait until a guy who’s chill with the situation, a guy she trusts, comes along.
But that’s part of my point too. The longer she waits, the slimmer those odds get. You know?
I mean, staying a virgin rules as long as the virgin in question is down with it, but if he/she’s not, and he/she decides to lose the virginity, well…either you hold out for perfection or you don’t, and it’s really up to the individual to decide if she can handle a little wigging in the situation.
Hey, love your site. Love MBTV. Love the Vine. Getting to the point now:
The letter from “Thoroughly Irritated” worried me. Maybe it’s because I’m up to my ears in information about this topic for work. I help organize trainings on adolescent relationship violence, which is a pretty big and growing problem. You may have seen a news blurb on a recent study that one out of four girls in high school have reported being abused in a dating relationship. Like adult abusive relationships, it can get pretty ugly.
It sounds like nothing, but seemingly irrational fears are sometimes really significant. “Bully,” “rude,” the disrespect, the fear. She mentioned that she is afraid of this guy and that her sister “used to be.” These all sound like warning signs to me. Abusers want to control their “loved one,” and they use a huge number of tactics to do this, not just physical violence. One of the biggest weapons they have is isolation. If a girl has no one else around, she starts believing him when he tells her she’s worthless and that he’s the only one who’ll love her. A lot of guys will drive friends and family away by putting them down, or, as it sounds like in this case, being so generally obnoxious that they throw down “him or me” ultimatums. The abuser makes it so hard for the girl to keep up outside relationships that she just gives up and he gets what he wants: total control of her and her life. It sounds harsh, but it’s a documented fact that teen relationship violence mirrors that of adults. And adolescent girls facing all those problems, particularly self-esteem issues, inherent in growing up are especially vunerable.
Your advice was good if this guy is just being fifteen, but if it’s more than this and she puts down an ultimatum, what happens? Her sister chooses her boyfriend and puts even more distance between herself and someone who might help her later. Someone who might be able to contradict the lies this guy is telling her.
I’m no more qualified (in terms of degrees et cetera) to give out advice than you are, but I would say this to “Throroughly Irritated:”
While you’re sitting down for that talk on limits, also make a point of finding out how the boyfriend is treating your sister. Why are they spending so much time hanging around her bedroom? Shouldn’t they be out at the mall or the movies? Is he driving all her friends crazy and driving them away so that she only hangs out with him? Telling her what to do and how to think? What she should like and how she should dress? Make sure she knows that love is important, but she deserves someone who respects her and her opinions. Maybe share some good boyfriend stories as examples. Like I said, this guy’s biggest problem may be that he’s fifteen, but you don’t even have to bring him into it. Reaffirming that your sister is a terrific person, independent of her boyfriend, and deserves the best in life is always a good thing.
More info from people who really know what they’re talking about can be found at the Teen Relationship Website and at Rape 101.com — scary name, but a good website.
Thanks for listening,
Just Because You’re Paranoid…
Dear Doesn’t Mean They’re Not Out To Get You,
That’s a good point — although I don’t think that, by talking to the sister about reining in the boyfriend and having it go badly, she’ll be sufficiently alienated not to keep an eye on the situation.
But I’ll tell you what I wonder. Where the hell are the parents in all this? They allow their fifteen-year-old daughter not only to date a known felon, but also to spend what I assume is unsupervised alone time with him in her room? My parents would have wrapped me in police tape and sent me to live with my grandmother before they’d have allowed that shit.
Anyway. I suspect that the kid’s just a buttwad, but if it’s more than that, thanks for the resources.
Here’s a new one (I think) for you.
My wife and I both read your site (and love it!) and we both know that we read and love your site. I rarely think to read The Vine section, however, and my wife knows this.
So for some strange reason, I was inspired to read The Vine, and lo and behold, I encountered a letter that was VERY clearly from my own wife. I was really shocked. (If you’re curious, the letter was from “Jane,” about “Rob,” and you posted it on May 7.)
If you recall from the letter, there wasn’t anything negative about me in the letter. The topic she mentioned had come up in discussions in the past few months, and I wasn’t aware that it was actively working on her mind, but I’m certainly interested to have learned this.
So here’s my question: do I mention to her that I read her letter and knew it was her? I don’t want to make a production of it. She and I have strange senses of humor, and I think she might be amused to find out that I ran across it. My other thought was to take the advice you gave to her, and simply sit down with her and open up the topic of school and housing and such. The problem with this is, if I bring up the topic without mentioning why it was on my mind, I feel like I’d be taking undue credit for being an attentive husband.
Any thoughts, comments, hands reaching through the screen and slapping me for even asking?
Rob
Dear Rob,
If she knows you read the site, she knew the possibility existed that you’d run across the letter, even if you don’t ordinarily read the Vine (and…shame on you! Heh. Just joking).
You guys have to talk about these things anyway. It’s obviously on her mind, and you obviously know that even without having read the Vine that day. Just bring it up, and mention that she’s clearly still having issues, but that you don’t mind that she wrote to me because you know that sometimes it helps to bounce things off of a third party.
But you both need to stop writing to me and start writing to each other, dude.
[8/2/01]
Tags: boys (and girls) rando sex the fam
