The Vine: August 24, 2011
Now with follow-up info! — 10/17/11
I have a wedding-related conundrum, and I hope you (and the illustrious Vine readership) can help me figure out the best course of action.
My dear friend B just got engaged to a wonderful man. The wedding is set for October. Her younger sister is going to be the maid of honor. Our friend, M, and myself will be bridesmaids. We are both thrilled for B, we love her sister, and we’re excited about the wedding. The three of us — B, M, and myself — have been friends for many years, we’ve seen each other through heartbreaks and career disasters, we know where all the bodies are buried, etc. We live in different cities now, but we get together as often as we can.
The history that we share makes us wonderful friends, but there have been ups and downs, natch. One thorny issue that has come up more than once over the years is how M has, at one time or another, hooked up with both of B’s brothers. The first time it happened, M and B’s older brother actually made out in the back seat of a car B was driving. B was extremely uncomfortable about this, and remains (I think) unaware that the two of them hooked up again a year or so later, when the older brother declared his sincere emotional attachment to M. I believe he is in love with M and hopes to have a relationship with her when he moves back home. He currently teaches English overseas, and M enjoys his company when he comes home for a visit, but that’s as far as it goes on her side.
Now, M is a wonderful person, but she is A Flirt. If her hookups with the older brother were all we were looking at, I might get a bit nervous that she would make out with him at the reception (which would be entirely in character, but which would make B extremely uncomfortable), but that would be the extent of it. However! Last year, B and M and myself went on a camping trip with B’s younger brother. In the middle of the wilderness, with all of us sleeping in tents, M and the younger brother had a drunken hookup. B was mortified. She and I could both hear everything.
M and the younger brother were suitably repentant the next day — they’re not really interested in being together, it was just mutual horniness combined with M’s tendency to flirt with any attractive man. B was furious, and took several days to cool down. You can probably imagine how much fun the rest of the camping trip was. I tried to keep the peace as best I could, but I was definitely pissed at them for indulging their horniness despite B and myself being five feet away in the other tent, to say nothing of my awareness that B’s older brother has feelings for M and would be crushed if he found out she had hooked up with his younger brother!
M is not interested in a relationship with either brother, but she has always flirted, made out, and/or hooked up with them if the opportunity presented itself. This New Year’s Eve, for example, she made out with the younger brother — so much for the post-camping repentance. As far as B knows, there was drunken making out in the backseat of her car with the older brother, and a drunken hookup with the younger brother years later on our camping trip, and that’s it. She is very uncomfortable with H hooking up with either of her brothers, and doesn’t like to be reminded of either incident. Her sister, the maid of honor, is blissfully ignorant of all of this (as far as I know). Also as far as I know, neither brother knows about the hookups with the other brother.
So my question is: Do I approach M and ask her please not to flirt/kiss/sexytimes with either of B’s brothers at the wedding? Any obvious amorous action would mortify the bride, horrify the bride’s parents, and probably distress whichever brother was not getting kissed. I would like to think that M knows better, and maybe she does. She was truly chagrined after the camping incident, but…then she was kissing the younger brother at the New Year’s Eve party, so I don’t know. The wedding will also be the first time that she and the older brother have crossed paths since his declaration to her almost two years ago (although I know they have been in touch online, and he really really likes her).
If I say anything to her, I run the risk of pissing her off. I completely understand that my basically telling her to behave herself is condescending and kind of insulting. But if she publicly kisses or hooks up with either brother, it has the potential to be really awful for a lot of people. I don’t know for sure that she will flirt with either of them, but her history suggests it’s a strong likelihood. She’s a lovely person in so many ways, but her drive to flirt — especially when she’s had a few drinks — tends to obliterate her common sense and thoughtfulness.
Do I say something to her in the hope of preventing that particular disaster? How on earth would I even bring it up? Do I say something to the brothers (with whom I’m in touch online)? Do I say nothing and just remain optimistically vigilant (or do damage control) at the wedding? I want to make things as wonderful as possible for B, and it’s not clear to me what the best way to do that would be.
Bridesmaid
Dear Bridesmaid,
No; you don’t; no; do nothing; no, no, no, no, and no.
Wanting “to make things as wonderful as possible for B” is an admirable goal, but I want to point out two things here. First, that isn’t your entire goal. You also want to avoid the kind of horrendous awkwardness that M’s behavior put you in the middle of the last time. You want to not have to pick a side, you want to not have to make cheery conversation when the emotional temperature is hovering around -19F, you want to…not.
This isn’t a judgment of you. I would want to…not my own self; I would probably also consider taking her aside all, “Look: you’ll do what you want, but if you do do anything, I am Switzerland so leave me out of it, you dig?”
But it is condescending, and that’s the second thing — you are Switzerland, or you can be. This is an issue between M and the older brother, and/or the younger brother, and/or B. Knowing about it does not make you responsible for it.
Set a boundary here, for yourself. No need to set it out loud to M — or to B, for that matter, and while I’m up, it’s fine if she’s weirded out or upset, but her siblings are grown men and she needs to corral her feelings a little more tightly — but just decide, right now, “Whatever happens with M and X Brother is for M and X Brother to figure out,” or “I hope things don’t get awkward, but if they do, it’s not my job to play ambassador.” Wherever you want to put the line, whatever mantra you want to store it in, recognize that you don’t want to be in the middle; acknowledge that, if you end up in the middle, it may be partly your own doing; and take mental steps to stay out of it.
If M wants to play careless with a man’s feelings, that’s unfortunate, but that’s on her. If B wants to throw a cloud on her own wedding day by obsessing about who her brothers get it in with, that’s on her. Here’s what’s on you:
…Yeah. Say nothing; stay out of it.
Tags: friendships the fam
Damn, that’s the script for “Bridesmaids: The Quickening Sequel” right there.
Okay, I can kinda understand the flower issue, actually. Given how many times the advertisements don’t match reality, I am betting they aren’t the first people to end up with half the blossoms they thought they were getting. But the chairs? They just…. didn’t order chairs ahead of time? They didn’t expect people to need to sit?
Good freaking god. Kudos to you for getting through the weekend alive, Bridesmaid. I’d have driven my car into the wall roughly 10 minutes in.
DAMN, Bridesmaid. Are you still feeling the love for B? Because the scenario you describe is in-freaking-sane. (And, to my mind, un-freaking-acceptable. You want people to be able to sit, but don’t make provisions for seating? Whaaaaa….? Are magic telepathic elves going to fabricate chairs at your wedding venue in the night?)
Look, I’m a bridesmaid minimalist. I had one bridesmaid, my sis, and I asked her to do only four things above and beyond just showing up: find a cute and reasonably appropriate outfit that she could afford and would enjoy wearing; be part of the wedding rehearsal; participate in the entrance, exit, and standing-around parts of the ceremony; and hold my bouquet at appropriate moments. She was happy, I was happy. Simples!
I’ve been a bridesmaid once myself and it was basically the same deal, except I also helped ferry guests to and from the airport in my car and helped set out food (since they were doing it on the cheap and self-catering). I realize that this is not the typical bridesmaid experience, but I don’t understand WHY that is. I get that often brides need to delegate and need an assist with planning and handling the details, but why is that an excuse for acting like the ‘maids are slave labor? Does. Not. Compute.
Bridesmaid, sorry you had such a difficult, exhausting experience. It shouldn’t be this way!
This is another fine example of ‘what you worry about in anticipation is never the thing that gets you, so why worry?’
My sympathies are with you, Bridesmaid. Glad you made it through.
Is this whole “bridal party = free labor” thing a trend? Because another dear friend of mine went through a similar debacle at a recent wedding. Bought the dress, the shoes, the gift, booked a hotel room for the out-of-town wedding weekend…. and wound up working all weekend long, on everything from setting up the reception hall to hauling the sound system around, and much more. Friend had a terrible time, bride didn’t seem to recognize or appreciate the work her bridal party put in.
I’m just wondering if couples don’t think they can scale back the wedding itself, and so just assume that their friends are willing to help them DIY the whole thing on the cheap? Are these isolated incidents, or have others heard/seen/experienced this more often in the last couple of years?
I’m all for creative wedding planning, and for asking/letting your friends help. But there’s a line between “reasonable help” and “taking advantage.” Bridesmaid hauling sound gear around is well over the line of taking advantage. Bridesmaid, my hat’s off to you for handling an awkward day with patience and a good spirit.
This is going to sound smug, but when I hear stuff like that, I feel good all over again about having a destination wedding with close family only.
The ceremony was “wear whatever you want”, we went out to dinner that we paid for afterward, and we just spent the rest of the long weekend exploring Hawaii. Everyone more or less had a good time, which made it totally worth it, despite people in our extended family throwing a hissy fit about not being invited to it (we figured that half of those would be “decline, will not travel” so why not keep it the smallest possible number of invitees?).
Haha, yeah, I actually suspected it was going to be kind of like this. I tried to mitigate some of the insanity by offering to help plan or organize in the months leading up to the wedding, or gently (genuinely gently) suggesting she get things nailed down… to no effect. At one point I was told I was stressing out the bride after asking (once! in an email!) whether hair appointments were being made for us or whether we should take care of our own hairstyles. So I just accepted that it was going to be a gong show and kept quiet.
This is one of those situations where it was a mess in a perfectly predictable way. The utter lack of planning, and the expectation that others will pick up the slack at the last minute, and without thanks or anything, is kind of in character. Like with M and the sometimes-inappropriate flirtation, it’s a known issue (so to speak). It makes them sound kind of awful, but there are so many more good things in both friendships, and I’m completely sure they put up with a litany of character flaws in yours truly. None of this is a friendship dealbreaker, nor was it unforeseeable — it’s just an unpleasant period in an otherwise mostly-lovely friendship.
It definitely makes the whole Elvis-in-Vegas option look realllly appealing. Any of my friends who go that route in the future will be getting awesome wedding presents plus my eternal gratitude, boy howdy.
“The bride and groom had left by this point, as had most of the guests, it was just the family and bridesmaids who had to stay behind to clean the venue.”
Are you KIDDING me?! You had to clean up afterwards on top of all the other work you put into the weekend? You don’t say what kind of venue this was, but this is a totally unacceptable request IMO. Clean up should have been included in the cost of the venue, shouldn’t it? Then again, the bride didn’t do enough planning to figure out the need for chairs either…
Bridesmaids or not, you were also GUESTS of the bride. She totally took advantage – and you were a very good sport not to call her out on it. I would have snapped as soon as I was told I was also the clean up crew.
Bride really put the “maid” in Bridesmaid!
I got married during the Cretaceous Period, so my observations may not have the slightest relevance. However, back when my friends and I were having our weddings, being a bridesmaid was strictly an honorific–no heavy lifting (figurative OR literal) expected. My maid of honor did host a bridesmaids’ luncheon, which I greatly appreciated but which was by no means a requirement. I wonder if the free-labor concept has evolved from the phenomenon of people wanting the lavish weddings they see in the media, even though they don’t have the Kardashian budget.
I was a part of my boss’s wedding (and this is a boss who I loved and got along with quite well, so it wasn’t an awkward power-imposition thing), and he named a group of us “Team Wedding”. We got together to set the place up, bus and wash dishes after dinner, and clean up when it was all said and done. Some of us ferried people to and from the nearest airport (an hour one way) or helped with the pre-wedding bbq. He put us all up in an awesome cabin on the river nearby for two or three nights, which was promptly nicknamed the party house, and generally made it a really fun thing to be a part of. I didn’t feel put upon at all, more part of a team, and we had fun even with the grunt work. It helped that these were all people I worked with, and we were used to putting on special events in addition to our lifeguarding (which was our actual job, but we also hosted races and competitions frequently). But because it was so well choreographed, and we knew what we were getting into, it was an awesome experience. I think more people could take a hint from my boss, and if you’re going to expect your crew to do some work, make it super fun for them.
Honestly, the wedding thing totally depends on the bride. I attended one weekend long wedding at a Boy Scout camp where the bride and groom housed, fed, and watered (liberally, with kegs, liquor and wine) for the entire weekend. The guests, family and friends together, asked the bride and groom multiple times what we could do to help, so they sent out a task wishlist a few weeks before the wedding, and we all signed up for whatever we were willing to help out with. It ended up being really, really fun, and we all felt invested in the weekend.
Two weeks later, we were at another friend’s weekend wedding, and since she had been a part of the initial wedding, she decided that she really liked the idea of the group pitching in. The problem? We (the guests) hadn’t really offered to help, because we didn’t know that she needed help. We arrived at the beach to our rental house, and the bride starting handing out assignments for the wedding day. This rubbed us all the wrong way since a)we didn’t mind helping, but we wanted to pick our assignments and b)we hadn’t planned on being put to work and frankly, we resented it. And to top it off, she barely acknowledged our efforts. Fail.
Long story short–if you want help, ask for it, and then be effusive in your thanks. People will remember that long after the last dance.
At this point, I think you just have to offer it all up to the comedy gods. Enjoy yourself deciding who’d play who in the wedding party (I’m thinking Tara Reid for M, based on the script provided).
Dear Bridesmaid,
UGH. I was in a wedding like that~the bride had me pick the locations for hair/nails and pictures (but then bitched the whole time that the nail salon was gross, there were too many trees in the park *wtf!*, etc). Then the night before her wedding around 10 pm,she called me and a few other bridesmaids (she had 7) to wonder why we weren’t setting up at the church, because the minister called her to say no one showed up for set up. After not informing us beforehand that we’d be doing all the set up (chairs, building an arbor for them to stand under, hanging the curtains with autumn leaves we’d spent the LAST weekend hand-sewing into place on them, stuff like that). The day of, she met us at the church at 7 in the morning and nit-picked and changed practically everything we’d spent the entire night doing, then went to get her hair and nails done while we “fixed it”. We meet up for pre-wedding pictures after having done our hair and makeup in the parking lot of the park, and she bitches about us not looking like we had our hair done professionally. Then after the 2 hour long ceremony (done in english and spanish, even though the only spanish-speaking individual was her husband and he’s fluent in english) we went down to the church’s community center and set up all the tables, food, decorations, and sound equipment we couldn’t do the night before because there was an AA meeting in the morning while we were doing our photos. Then she wondered why most of us were sitting down during most of the reception, relaxing and taking the time to eat and not dancing with her or mingling with her guests. She and new husband snuck out and left after 2 hours and left us to enforce the “reception is over, people!” and handle all the cleanup of the chapel and community center.
I’d like to say our friendship survived this, but we really don’t stay in touch anymore. Pretty sure she’s lost touch with all but one of the bridesmaids, and I know this was really a contributing factor.
“it was just the family and bridesmaids who had to stay behind to clean the venue.”
Say what? That’s bullshit. I went to a wedding where the bride basically took advantage of everyone she knew (she didn’t hire anyone to do anything – it was a DIY wedding, and by Y I mean “the guests”) and I was really annoyed afterward. I thought I’d been invited to a wedding to share in the couple’s happiness, not cook the wedding food until 1 AM the night before and chauffeur the photographer (also a friend of the bride’s) all over town the morning of. The wedding itself was fun, which is good because basically all the guests had put in some degree of work and were mad about having done so, so the party soothed everyone’s nerves. And even we didn’t have to clean up afterward! That’s not “bad luck” – bad luck is when the cake topples over (which happened at the wedding I mentioned) or it rains when an outdoor ceremony is planned. Not bothering to do any work and then asking your friends and family to do it all at the expense of their comfort as guests isn’t bad luck, it’s just shitty.
Oh my god. Reading this story makes me want to call all the women I’ve been a bridesmaid for and thank them for being awesome and NOT bridezillas. The worst I had to deal with was a church wedding coordinator who didn’t believe me when I told her my friend didn’t care where how the flowers were arranged on the altar, and so she spent her time harping on me about it since I was early and the bride wasn’t there.