The Vine: August 29, 2012
I can’t decide if I should try for something, or just let it go and figure it wasn’t meant to be. And if I do try, how?
I have been on a team at work for about 20 months; about 6 months ago realized that a co-worker is really neat — kind, funny, similar life outlook, we have great conversations, etc. There are many indications that he is a gem. There are also some signs that the interest is mutual. He definitely likes me, but my jury is out as to whether he likes me or just likes me. FWIW I have always thought he was a nice guy but until earlier this year thought he was much, much younger. I am cursing the timing on this now.
For unrelated reasons I have been trying to get off this team and into another job for the past 6-7 months. When I realized I liked him I figured I could stay in touch after transferring, maybe be more obvious about my feelings, and see where it might go. Under normal circumstances I would have transferred a while ago and would have had some time to let the thing with him progress naturally and get a better idea whether it has legs, but the job market, even internally at my company, has been pretty sucky lately.
About a month ago our boss mentioned in a meeting that sweet/funny coworker is planning to move back to his home country. When we had some time alone I asked him about it directly. The upshot is that he’s homesick, he has an aging, possibly senile parent; he misses other family and friends and his work/life balance sucks in ways that it wouldn’t at home. Also, though he didn’t say it directly, he implied that he’s lonely and disappointed that he never found a partner over here in the US. If all goes as planned he’ll leave in slightly under 2 months.
In a subsequent conversation he said that the next time I visit his home city (a city I have visited several times, and love, which he knows) I should know that I have a place to stay and that he would like to show me around. So, nice that he wants to keep in touch, but…
Should I tell him how I feel before he leaves? Should I ask him if he wants to date me before he leaves? Is there any point? If he weren’t leaving I would have been happy to wait to see how things unfold, but now there’s no time and I don’t want to kick myself later because I didn’t have the guts to do something, but I also don’t want to act like a crazy person over something that may or may not have potential.
In other circumstances I might hang back a bit and see if he makes a move (and also to just let things develop naturally), but it’s hard to know if he’s not asking me out because he doesn’t like me that way, or because a) we’re co-workers and b) he’s a self-professed nerd and a bit socially awkward and c)he’s leaving the country soon.
I just don’t even know how to present what I am feeling because it comes down to, “Hi, I like you and hope that something could work out in the next 2 months that could enable us to see if anything could work out over the long term, so, uh, do you want to go get a drink?” I don’t know how to say this in a non-crazy-sounding way.
For what it’s worth, I am financially secure enough to have some flexibility about where I live and work, and will have even more freedom if a project I’m working on now pans out over the next year or so, so it’s not completely cuh-ray-zay to think that if we were a good fit, things could work out longer term, but nevertheless I feel crazy for even thinking that far ahead. On the other hand I have so much fun with him and he’s so sweet and I am going to miss him horribly when he leaves.
Believe it or not, we’re both in our forties, but it seems that one is perpetually 14 in situations like this.
Hoping you and the Nation might have some suggestions for me.
Thanks!
Midlife Teenager
Dear Midteen,
As my dad once told me when I was hopping around by the phone like I had to pee, psyching myself up to call a boy and ask him to a dance, “The worst he could say is yes.” Heh.
Okay, for real now. This leaped out at me:
…it comes down to, “Hi, I like you and hope that something could work out in the next 2 months that could enable us to see if anything could work out over the long term, so, uh, do you want to go get a drink?” I don’t know how to say this in a non-crazy-sounding way.
That isn’t that crazy-sounding, and even if it is, who cares? Okay, maybe HR cares, but that’s a short-term problem and you can find ways around it if you need to. It sort of reminds me of that line from A Tree Grows in Brooklyn where Francie’s mom says, “I hate all those flirty-birty games that women make up. Life’s too short. If you ever find a man you love, don’t waste time hanging your head and simpering. Go right up to him and say, ‘I love you. How about getting married?'” I mean, you aren’t simpering as far as I can see and I wouldn’t barge up to him at the coffeemaker with a proposal, obvi, but the “life’s too short” part is key, especially in your case. Asking to speak to him privately towards the end of the workday and saying, “Look, this is awkward, but the meter is running on your time in the country, so the hell with it: I like you That Way and I want to see if there’s anything there. Will you go on a date with me?” is going to suck and you will shred your cuticles over it, but it’s going to give you information you need. Either he’s going to tell you he likes you but he doesn’t Like You Like You, which stings, but at least you know and you can move on to the next thing; or he’s going to Like You Like You but think it’s off-putting that you got direct about your feelings, which isn’t really workable and it’s better you figure that out now; or he’s like, sweet, let’s go on a date.
And then things could go any number of different directions, but difficult though it is to resist brain-doodling about this stuff, try not to get ahead of yourself. It’s normal to do, you will do it anyway, but give yourself 30 seconds to daydream-move to his daydream country and work with him on the daydream unicorn farm the two of you own together while eating nothing but chocolate and hope, and when it’s about to get rated-R in your head, snap yourself out of it. One thing at a time. You don’t have to present your able-to-move credentials to him during the appetizer course, or make your case.
And this is the other thing: if you feel yourself having to make a case for why it could work out, or talk him into it at all in terms of taking a chance, it’s no go. If he’s willing to see where things go, and you get a good vibe, great — but if you feel like you’re in a pitch meeting, pack it in. Ordinarily I would make more of the fact that he hasn’t actually made a move as an indicator here, because in my experience, a guy who really likes you will make that known. If he’s socially maladroit, that’s the manner in which he will make it known…but it will become known. In Co-Worker’s case, it’s maybe a workplace issue, and/or a “why start something when I only have 8 weeks left here” issue, so I give that part less weight, but relationships that start out with you talking the other party into giving it a try really never stop feeling that effortful and shitty.
In other words, ‘nad up, invite him out on a Date Date, and give it a chance — but only the one chance. I can trace probably 65% of my grievous romantical errors to “the timing is terrible, but…” Sometimes, ain’t no “but.” It’s just terrible timing, and you ignore it at your peril. The timing here could lead to a wonderful connection that you’d never have forged if a ticking clock hadn’t forced you to make a move or wonder forever, and LDRs and international affairs of this type work out all the time; if you become partners, you find a way. But don’t worry about that part now, and if he’s already got his boxers in a knot about that part, get on OKCupid and find someone else.
Tags: boys (and girls)
Sars, that jumped out at me, too. Midteen, you really don’t have anything to lose but your fear. You thought I was going to say “pride”, right?
But pride, while a worthwhile virtue that has kept me and you and everyone out of many an embarrassing and YouTubed situation, can be That Freind sometimes–the one that is so smart and helpful, but tends to overpower your patterns of thought, for your own good of course. “Aren’t you a little old for that cut of jacket? Don’t you think those shoes try a bit too hard? Isn’t it really just not worth the flush-climbing-up-your-chest-to-your-eyebrows to ask out that cute, compatible-seeming guy? Let’s stay in. Just you and me, safe and sound. No risks here.”
But that’s not the case here. You may be a bit daydreamy about where this could go, but you aren’t delusional or lying to yourself. He’s not your boss or your boss’s boss or your boss’s kid. You aren’t risking a long term commitment either at work or in your private life.
You just like him. And you like him Like That. That doesn’t come around so often. And maybe it won’t work out, for the reasons Sars mentions, but those are reasons it may not work out, not reasons to not start. You won’t regret trying, even if it doesn’t end up at the chocolate unicorn farm. You WILL regret never trying at all. Never trying is the fastest way to NOT end up on the chocolate unicorn farm.
Crushes and emotions and maybe having someone new in your life are scary. Most gifts are. And most gifts don’t wait around forever. Write it on your hands, on your mirror, on your phone–Life’s Too Short.
Then ask him out for a drink. Who knows what unicorns may frolic in the mists?
Ok, can’t you just leave all the future crap out of it and just go on a date and see what happens? Maybe you’ll have a blast and you’ll both fall madly in love-so in two months you will have to have some serious conversations, and make some hard decisions. I think this chance is approx. 1 in 100.
I would say there’s a 50% chance you’ll find out you two don’t have romantic chemistry at all and it’s not worth pursuing. There’s another 25% that you will have a nice time, but not really feel enough spark to have another date. There a 24% chance you will have a great time, continue dating, and have a quick two month fling, but at the end of it decide the obstacles are too great to sustain the relationship over the long term and break up, hopefully amicably. None of these constitutes the end of the world.
It’s one night out of your life. Quit worrying about THE FUTURE and just ask him to get a drink already. Play it by ear and just see what happens. Don’t let worrying about the future keep you from enjoying the present.
Best line ever: “work with him on the daydream unicorn farm the two of you own together while eating nothing but chocolate and hope.” I actually want to go sketch that out now…
One bonus: if he is not up for a dating relationship, you won’t have the OMG-what-do-I-do-when-I-see-him-again part to worry about because he will be in a different country.
Give it a shot! Some of most hand-wringing moments in life make the best stories later, whether they turn out good or bad.
“Move to his daydream country and work with him on the daydream unicorn farm the two of you own together while eating nothing but chocolate and hope.” I’m totally going to have that daydream now.
With that said, I’m with Sars. Tell him how you feel. If he doesn’t feel the same way, now you know, but if he does feel the same way, well, now you know.
Please let us know how it turns out. I’m rooting for him to like you back and then you go start a unicorn farm.
The “daydream unicorn farm” is where L&O-era Chris Noth and I have been residing for quite sometime now, so if anyone wants to trade chocolate and hope recipes, lemme know.
Go for it, Midteen! If nothing else, like Pam says, it’ll be a good story!
If nothing more comes of it than a drink? Or a drink and some sweaty sexytime? How is that a loss? It’s not, not in my book.
Lowering your expectations should also lower your blood pressure enough to Go On And Ask, Already!
If he says no, or squirrels around in a way that means No without saying it, well, you’ll be relieved and can recalibrate your instrumentation. It’s all good.
I met a guy once years ago– we went out a couple times over the course of a few months, and I dragged it out but then broke it off because I thought he was too shy and too young for me. He had fallen for me hard by that time apparently. We stayed friends in a larger circle and I still liked him, but even though I had many second thoughts over the next few years never felt like I could act on them unless I was 100% sure, what with the heart-breaking the first time around. Finally he was going to leave to go back to his home country (for two years and possibly forever) and in a fit of sanity I told him– “hey, you know, my timing is horrible, and you’re probably totally over me, and even if not, I can imagine you wouldn’t be thrilled about East Coast – Asia romance, but if I met you now, I’d totally want to go for it, so– any interest in coming over to watch the game on Friday?”. Anyway, the new first date went well, he left five weeks later, we got engaged within the year, he moved back after 15 months, and we’ve been super happy since then (five years). So hey! Not to be all unicorn-y about it, but why not try? :)
Midlife,
All I can say is that I just did something like this with a classmate/close friend I will continue to see for 4 more years. (talk about midlife teenager I’m a graduate student who is 33) I don’t know what’s going to come of this (he’s thinking about it right now) but I have no regrets – I’m really glad I asked him because then I’ll never have to wonder. Go for it!
The thing I always say in these situations is this: most people regret the things they didn’t do, more than the things they did.
In my experience, looking back, I usually find that words unsaid, opportunities lost or unexplored out of fear, or laziness, or what have you, bother me far more than the dumb or awkward or embarrassing things I *did* that maybe didn’t turn out as I’d hoped or planned.
I think the NOT KNOWING after he’s gone will be worse than any potential rejection. Being able to say, “At least I tried” (especially at our age, when good men are a little scarce) will beat thinking “… and now it’s too late.”
YMMV.
Ummm, Sars? I am now in very platonic love with your dad! What a great line!
Midteen: My platitude line for this situation is “No one ever threw anything at my head for asking a question except my mother!” Go for it!
Go for it, Midlife! And you can even use his impending departure as the impetus for asking him out, as in “I was so sad to hear that you’re leaving, because I’ve been trying to work up the courage to ask you out and now I’m worried that I’ve left it too late…” If nothing else, you might end up having a really fantastic few weeks together – and who knows what else could happen? Good luck!
Psychology of happiness researchers are pretty unanimous that people regret stuff they don’t do more than stuff they do.
Asking him out has a really limited downside potential (he says no, you feel embarrassed for a while, you go home and drink a beer and watch the game) and a limitless upside potential. That’s a good bet to take.
My dad waited a year after my mom passed to start dating the love of his life. A woman he’d met in his To Live Again group. They were absolutely soul mates. She died 18 mos later and their only regret was waiting those months to start dating.
Dad would say go for it. You never know. And you don’t want to miss that if it is what you hope it is.
Hi All, Midteen here. Thank you all for the encouragement and suggestions. He’ll find out at the end of the week whether he’s leaving in a month or two months from now; once I know his timetable I can decide when to just go ahead and ask. I want to maximize time with him if he accepts but minimize awkward misery at work if he says no … it’s a fine balance.
In the meantime, I have made a conscious decision to stop hiding behind plausible deniability, so we’ll see if that loosens things up any. And, I promise I won’t try to talk him into anything. It took me a long time to get here, but I have finally gotten to the point where I don’t actually want anyone who isn’t enthusiastic about me.
As an intermediary step I have started offering him rides home on the days when we’re both in the office, which he always accepts and which have given us the chance to have some great conversations without neglecting our work too much. And, the conversations have reinforced my opinion that he’s a goddamn gem, so I hope I at least get to remain friends with him, whatever happens.
Does it have to be formally acknowledged as A Date? You could simply say “By the way, I’d been meaning to ask, would you like to go for a drink/meal/whatever some time this week?” and see how he takes it. You don’t have to have That Conversation in advance.
This is all very Karl and Sarah from Love, Actually. AND I COULD NOT LOVE IT MORE. Go Midteen! #suckerforarealliferomcom
For what it’s worth, I’d like to add that if he doesn’t Like You Like You, it doesn’t mean decades of awkwardness must ensue.
If you’ve ever simply liked someone and found out that they Liked You Liked You, once you got past stammering an awkward and apologetic response, didn’t you kind of float around all day thinking, “Wow, someone nice and smart and good-looking Likes Me!”? It momentarily complicates the friendship (and yeah, in some cases permanently alters the tenor of it), but it also feels really, really good to know you’re Liked.
Some years back, this really lovely man who worked at the coffee shop I frequented stammered out a confession that he thought I was really pretty and that he always enjoyed the few minutes of conversation we had and he’d love to go out for coffee when he wasn’t on the clock. As it happened, I had a boyfriend and so had to turn him down, but I have to admit the encounter put me on cloud nine for about a week after. I know that the guy at the coffee shop felt awkward about it, because he wasn’t as animated after that encounter, and that always made me feel bad. I wanted to tell him, “Look, first, that was really gutsy of you to say what you said in such a forthright way. Second, I was flattered as heck. Third, I think you’re great and in slightly different circumstances the answer would’ve been yes. And fourth, thanks to your awesome example, from now on if I Like someone, I’m going to just tell him so.”
I am a big proponent of the honest confession of crushes.
Clover’s got it exactly right.
Me again … Clover, you’re right, but the part I stick on (neurotically) is the “nice and smart and good-looking” piece. I meet a reasonable bar in all three areas, but there’s always that inner 13-year-old that’s convinced that I’m going to be ridiculed for having the temerity to think someone might like me back. No, I don’t plan to act on the neurosis, but it clouds things up sometimes.
He said something on the way home yesterday that confirmed that he has one of my top 3 non-negotiable mate-qualities. I already knew he had the other two. So I really do need to do this, don’t I?
I did get up the nerve to tell him he looked really great yesterday. He was wearing a very flattering color and looked awesome. He took the compliment graciously and seemed pleased, so there’s that.
Lisa, wasn’t that the couple who never got together because she decided to reject love in order to take care of her brother?
Midteen, you absolutely must get up your courage and get off the fence. 25 years after the fact, I still regret not telling a boy my true feelings, and watching as sleezy mutual acquaintance swept him off his feet with her outrageously aggressive sluttitude. They lived together, miserably happy, until she sleezed out on a trip to Greece and hooked up with one of his Greek friends. I think he ended up back together with Girl-Back-Home, which was exactly why/who I didn’t act more assertively myself. I will carry that regret to my end, even though I’m happily married (for the second time).
Do it now!!! Please!! :-)
I love this.
Do it do it do it Midteen! Seriously, do it tomorrow! And report back to us!!
Ah, see Laura is the reverse of my story, which is that a guy friend and I spent about 18 months circling each other and kind of/sort of flirting before I got up the nerve to invite him to a party and he took that (correctly) as an invitation to make a move. It only lasted a month and we’re now both in long term relationships with other people (he’s getting married this weekend as a matter of fact), but I’m still glad I went through with it if only because it was fun while it lasted and now I don’t have to ask myself “what if.”
Goodness’ sake, honey, just tell that poor boy you’re crazy about him! And that even if he’s not crazy about you back, that you still think he’s the bee’s knees and look forward to being his friend for years to come. (I’m still friends with people I’ve dated in the past, not just confessed crushes on; I’m *pretty* confident you can manage this.)
And don’t get too hung up on the timing. My husband (who was my colleague) and I got married after dating just a little over 6 weeks, and we’re still together 6 years later, so just sayin’ – weird shit happens. Maybe it will turn out to be a great love affair. And if it doesn’t, at least you took a chance and lived a little.
Big hugs and best of luck!
ct: The “daydream unicorn farm” is where L&O-era Chris Noth and I have been residing for quite sometime now, so if anyone wants to trade chocolate and hope recipes, lemme know.
NICE. My “daydream farm” (no unicorns… can’t stand those buggers for some reason) has rotating tenants (I get bored easily.)
Feel free to visit any time.
I think I have romance fatigue. I have done this before, but obviously I’m still single, so even though my logic skills tell me that this is a new situation and can turn out differently, there is a part of me that can already hear the “I like you but …”
Though FWIW, in almost all of those cases, I later figured out that the person would have been all wrong for me, so they worked out the way they were supposed to. That said it would be nice if something would work out the way it’s supposed to, but also result in having a nice guy in my life.
For what it’s worth, I totally pursued my husband after being introduced through mutual friends on a weekend camping trip. Nine years, four of them married, and two kids later, he still says my confidence in approaching him was what got his attention.
Go for it, Midteen. I’m willing to bet he’s writing to someone about the awesome woman he’d like to ask out but he works with her and, besides, he’s leaving the country…
“Never trying is the fastest way to NOT end up on the chocolate unicorn farm.”
@Jen S 1.0 – First of all, this sentence is hilarious and is definitely the very first time that these words have been arranged in anything close to this particular sentence.
Second, I need to make it into my personal mantra, because aside from the funny it’s also a bit of life-lesson gold.
ASK HIM OUT. and then PLEASE come back and tell us how it went??!!
Tell him!! This one time, I had an irrepressible crush on a boy who was my very good friend, a crush so overwhelming that it overcame all my super-shy-around-boys-ness and I told him. He freaked out a little, thought about it, said okay yes let’s date, and we’ve been together ever since. We’re hitched and everything. Confessing that I Liked Him is honestly one of my proudest life moments. So much goodness has come from that teeny bit of courage. Tell him tell him tell him!
Yes, but YOU’RE going to have the happy ending! (Unless you have a schizophrenic brother you haven’t told us about. :) )
Please, I’m begging you… Suck it up and do it. You’re giving him rides home some nights, FFS. He’s captive and receptive – suggest stopping for a drink/coffee/meal. Do it when you’re getting into the car – it’s as easy as saying, “hey, I’m thinking of getting a drink or whatever on the way, are you okay with that?”. Of course he will say yes. And then let things proceed from there. A little truth serum goes a long way.
You can do it. I’m a sucker for a good story and this has all the makings of one. And as everyone else has said, you have nothing to lose but the elephant in the car.
Please let us know how the next step goes. I’m excited for you. You can do it!
Am I the only one who wonders what has happened with Kari’s situation? Kari, has your guy given you a response yet?
As for me, I am working myself up to asking him to go for a beer or something this weekend – trouble is I’m going to have to do it online because he won’t be in the office tomorrow … which could leave a very awkward chat session hanging in the air, but then again, maybe it will be fine. Or maybe he’ll say yes to a beer but then it will turn out to just be a friendly beer and life goes on.
He has lent me some of his favorite TV shows and movies, so today I told him I want to lend him one of my favorite books, which he said he’d like to see. So I could use bringing him the book as a really flimsy pretext for seeing him over the weekend, or I could just ask. Or I could just keep posting on the Vine as a substitute for action.
Also, does anyone know what hope tastes like? It might be that I wouldn’t even like it.
The exchanging of one’s pop-culture touchstones is a veerrrrrrry promising sign, IME.
GIRL. SACK UP ALREADY. YOU ARE KILLING US HERE.
Now I’m imagining Midteen pulling up at his house all, “Look, I know it’s ten in the morning but could you just come out for a beer with me right now? These blog weirdos are, like, literally holding their breath, so.”
All right, TNers, all right. I will catch him online later today and I’ll find some way to ask him to go get a beer with me this weekend. I wish he were going to be in the office today because I would rather not have a written record of my humiliation if it goes badly, but whatever.
Sars, yeah, the pop-culture lending was one of the indicators I had that maaaybe he likes me ‘that way.’ Another is that he is solicitous of my health and safety in a way that I don’t get (and have never gotten) from my other co-workers. I wish there were a Rosetta Stone for decoding romantic signals!
I’ll be your Rosetta Stone, Midteen. I read Greek, Eygptian, and Shy Guy, and he’s saying I LIKE YOU BUT HAVE THE SAME FEARS YOU DO ISN’T IT IRONIC DON’T YA THINK YES I WOULD LOVE TO GO OUT WITH YOU YES YES YES YES!
Seriously, everything you’ve mentions says “he’s perfect for her because he’s shy the same way she is!”
I feel like this is Tomato Nation’s own personal Train Man!
Oh, and hope? It tastes like the very first time you ever bit into your favorite candy, mixed with the best cocktail you ever had, with a touch of that fabulous taco you had that one time you still dream about.
OK, now all I can think about is tacos.
THANKS A LOT, JEN S 1.0.
*snerk*
Hey everyone,
Thanks for asking!
We talked last night and he said he was honored but that he doesn’t want to ruin the friendship and views me as a constant in his life (he’s going through some hard stuff that will be continuing for a while). I still have no regrets about doing it and I really think that it was a powerful thing for me to do. We hung out later and it wasn’t really awkward but we have always worked well communicating and letting things go. On to the next adventure!
Midteen – Good luck :)
Do it (which sounds like you’re already leading up to it). Seriously. I was in a somewhat similar situation except that I was like, 99.999 percent sure the object of my affection was in an active relationship with another coworker and then he took a new job halfway across the country. Regret, thy name is me (or something).
Good luck, Midteen! 10 AM beers are sometimes the best beers :-)
@Jen S 1.0, so what you’re saying is, I can’t use the excuse that I might not like the taste of hope because hope tastes exactly like everything I love. Curse you and your tautological ways!
Also Jen S 1.0, if you can indulge me by explaining how you know he likes me, I would be much obliged – I am needing some reinforcement here as we head into afternoon and the moment of truth.
You realize, Midteen, that you are going to have to devise some sort of Bat signal to give the Nation updates.
And that, if everything goes well, you will have to tell him one day that…this. Hee.
Don’t mind me. Just going to sit here, hitting F5 every few minutes until we get some resolution. No big. It’s a long weekend. I’ve got no plans. =D
PS You look hot. You can do this!
Oh, man. I have 4 hours left of being stuck at my very quiet, very empty, very boring (Yay holiday weekend!) office so I foresee myself just refreshing this page over and over again for news. I will try not to literally hold my breath because 4 hours is a long time to go without air. Goodluck, Midteen! As others have said, all signs so far point to “He possibly like-likes you back!” so there’s a very good chance things will go exactly as you hope but even if they don’t you’ve gotten it off your chest. Better to know one way or the other than be forever wondering, right?
I’m reading these comments with baited breath, waiting for updates from Midteen!
I want you to do it, and be successful and it will give hope and inspiration to all of us who mean to do such a thing and never do.
The Nation is rooting for you!
Rooting for you, Midteen!
Kari – cheering for your awesomeness in speaking up.
The Nation is full of rockstars, all working on our chocolate unicorn farms.
And the Nation is waiting with candy if it doesn’t work out. (I bet it does, though. Lending TV shows = trying to figure out if you will have to get separate DVRs on the unicorn farm. I’m just saying.)