The Vine: August 6, 2008
Hi Sars,
I think I’ve made a mess of things and have no clue what to do. Last night I broke up with my boyfriend of two years. We were living together in a house that he recently purchased. I am 23, he is 29 and this is not the first long-term relationship for either of us. It is, however, the first time I have lived with a boyfriend and as such this breakup is becoming extremely difficult. So difficult that I think I made a huge mistake and am serious about playing the “I take it all back” card.
I know it’s typical breakup hindsight to see only the good things after it has ended, but in all honesty, I don’t know if my issues were that bad when I was in the relationship. The first issue I had was that I was the other woman in our initial romantic encounters. This has plagued me throughout the relationship, both in the way of guilt and fear that it would happen again. It wasn’t consuming but just a nagging thought that would show up every now and then. When I was with him, I would often think that since this initial trust wasn’t there, then there would be no hope for us. Now I think that it was just unfortunate circumstances that we could work through.
Second, he keeps very open channels with girls around him, especially with the ones he has been in a relationship with. I admit that I am a jealous person, and I don’t know if these issues are really something to be peeved about or just something that I have to work on. This has played out in a number of strange ways, including the time he invited his ex (the one right before me) to come visit and stay in our home for a week. I took issue with this because he had never talked about her before, nor had I witnessed them interact, but all of a sudden she was his best friend and needed to be in our house. Now I’m thinking that I was being overly jealous and I shouldn’t have reacted the way I did.
Third, we have very different ideas on how to have fun. He’s a big drinker, in the sense that 3-4 nights a week, he goes to the bar. I don’t know whether that’s excessive or just more often than I would like. I don’t go out very much, once a week will usually do me, but it irked me to be home alone so often and be woken up when he came home a few sheets to the wind. Our fights were always on this topic, and it would be the same fight over and over again. I would feel that going to a bar was more important to him than our relationship, he’d say I was being controlling and we’d go on from there. I can’t tell anymore if this is something that can be worked through, or something that neither of us can change.
The various other issues seem so minor to me; he hates religion as a concept but supports my recent decision to convert to Judaism, he is very analytical and calculating about people when I am not, I love TV and he hates it. This is all starting to sound like a Paula Abdul song, so I’ll stop here.Sorry about the length, I just don’t know if it’s over, or worth another try.
Two steps forward, back, or out the door?
Dear MC Skat Cat,
Oh yes I did too make that reference.
I don’t know if it’s over or worth another try either; not enough time has gone by for you to have, or give me, any perspective on all these bothersome issues.It does sound to me like the two of you have some basic incompatibilities, and like he has a little problem understanding that certain behavior isn’t respectful to you as a girlfriend or a roommate.This is someone who, from what you’ve told me, wants the benefits of a relationship, but not the responsibilities, and if you can’t live with that, you can’t.
A couple doesn’t have to agree on everything or have every single thing in common, but there has to be a respect there, a level of courtesy, that I don’t get from him in this letter.It’s fine if he hates TV, I guess, although I don’t get it, but does he respect the fact that you like it?Or is there a lot of put-upon sighing and aggrieved faces while you’re trying to concentrate on I Want To Work For Diddy?
Stand your ground for now.Don’t throw it in reverse; wait three months for the breakup to take.Right now, as you said, you miss all the things you like about him; you miss the companionship, the habit.Once that fades, I think you’ll have a whole list of things you don’t miss, at all, like the scent of beer breath at 2 AM, and you won’t want them back at all.
Sars,
Next year, I’ll be marrying the man of my dreams and I couldn’t be happier. We were friends forever before we hooked up, and when we finally did, it was the kind of perfect you couldn’t imagine even if you watched sappy romantic comedies all day. Unfortunately, his mother didn’t see it that way.
Without going through the whole tortured story, I’ll just say that my man now has no contact with any member of his family, and he likes it that way. It was not a decision he made lightly, but he made it firmly and it’s healthier for both of us (and our relationship) not to be connected with people who don’t approve of me as a person or him for being with me. Meanwhile, my family has wholeheartedly embraced my man, with love and joy and perfect acceptance, and he and I are very happy with our life.
Here’s my current dilemma. We’re planning a big family engagement party at Thanksgiving, but my extended family (cousins, uncles, great-uncles, et cetera), though loving and welcoming, will probably be curious about why his family is in no way involved in the wedding process. My man and I would prefer not to go into details about what happened and instead focus on our joy and the new family we have built for ourselves. Should I ask my mom to pass a message to the extended family? Something like, “His family are not in the picture, and we prefer not to talk about it”? He doesn’t mind if people know that he doesn’t get along with his mother, but I feel that sharing more details would be uncouth.
To be honest, I want my family to know the truth about his mother, down to every rotten detail, but that’s because I think she was horrible and cruel and he deserves to be loved and adored without any doubt cast on his person or behavior. But I acknowledge my bias and I’m trying to be respectful and not spread unnecessary negativity. (Except in this letter, I guess.)
Our life together, with my family, will be wonderful and I am sure that my man is perfectly happy, though if at any time in the future he wants to reach out to his own family, I will of course support that. But for now, is it enough just to tell my family, “We’d rather not discuss the issue”?
He’s Taking My Name When We’re Married
Dear Name,
I think that’s fine, and I think it’s fine for you to authorize your mom to say, if anyone asks why his family isn’t present, “Fiancé isn’t in touch with his family; it’s nothing for you to worry about.”Don’t have her bring it up or explain it unprompted; just give her a script.
Because the breaking point does seem to have been your fiancé’s relationship with you — not that it’s your fault, obviously, but that it catalyzed their estrangement — you’ll especially want to kibosh any discussion of the particulars at events surrounding the wedding for that reason.You know?It’s one thing if they’re not there because they’re dickheads, but if they’re not there because they’re dickheads about the relationship being celebrated, any mention of that fact casts a pall.
Yeah, people will still talk and speculate, but people do that at weddings.Don’t even say you’d rather not discuss it, as that just fuels the curiosity; say they’re not in his life, decline to explain further, and change the subject.
Hi Sars,
Admittedly, I’m not much of a people person, but I’m dealing with a tricky person-related situation. I don’t know how to proceed, and I could use some mature advice!
I am a (not well-known) blogger, and I have a bit of a presence on a major website with forums. In the past week, a person on that website private-messaged me to ask me about an aspect of my profile. The person seemed nice enough, and I responded. Apparently, this person took a shine to me, and has continued to send me lengthy, personal messages on a daily basis. The messages aren’t inappropriate, but they’re long and excessively detailed about this person’s life, friends, and problems. They have also asked some questions of me which, once again, aren’t inappropriate, but I consider too personal. I don’t open up to people very easily, and I consider some of the questions to be a little on the nervy side (they would be considered bad etiquette).
It’s awful, I know, but I can’t help but consider this person a pest. Since I humored them for the first few messages, I now feel trapped with no gracious way to end the acquaintanceship. The last time I responded to one of the messages, I tried to be as short and vague as possible, but the person didn’t get the hint. I don’t want to be mean, and I’m very non-confrontational, however I’m not interested in making new friends at this time, and, more specifically, I don’t want to be friends with this person. They seem to already consider us friends. I find the person suffocating and stalker-like.
Of course, you’ll probably say, the solution is to just stop responding to them, but they know of my blog and my Flickr account. I can tell from site statistics that the person checks my blog multiple times a day. Since I didn’t respond to the last message, they checked my blog quite a few times over the course of the last day. If I were to post in my blog but not respond to the person…?
I want to end this with the least amount of drama possible. Basically, I want to impress upon this person that, because my life is tough and/or busy right now, I don’t have much free time. I would like to spend what free time I have blogging, and I’m not in the market for (new) friends.
Is there any tactful way to sever contact with this person? I don’t think ignoring is going to do it. Plus, I feel that I should be able to post in my blog without having to worry about drama or fearing some sort of retribution (I have no reason to think that this would happen, but you never know…).
I am being deliberately vague, but I will add that this person and I are of the same gender, and there was nothing romantic intended. This person just thinks I’m nifty, and I don’t return the compliment.
Paranoid in Portland
Dear Port,
You could probably just stop responding outright; I doubt you’re the only person in that online community who has experienced your non-friend as something of a pest, and if s/he did pitch a little hissy as a result, well, that shit blows over.
But you can be more gentle about it while still doing the old brush-off.Keep your responses short and cool; don’t respond to every email; let more and more time go by between responses.Eventually you can just stop answering.If you’re called on it, tell him/her — without elaborating or apologizing — that you’re very busy with other things.
And if your non-friend does take a hint from the fact that you update your blog, or Twitter about IMing with someone who is not him/her, so what?Isn’t that what you want?What’s more important to you, that this person continues to think you’re “nifty” — or that you’re tired of pretending to return the compliment?
You can’t have it both ways.Not everyone has to think you’re nice; not everyone has to be allowed to believe you’re besties based on access to your digital photos.Most people get that; if this person doesn’t, you’re not required to pretend you don’t.
Tags: boys (and girls) etiquette
Sars, please tell me you’re watching I Want To Work for Diddy. It will make me feel less ashamed. Because I sort of love it.
I am not watching that…but I will be watching MtB5 starting next week. Because I am Diddy’s reality-programming bitch-ass.
Oh, you should totally add I want to work for diddy to your list. It is awesomely bad and yet mostly awesome. They have security escort the people out when they’re kicked off. It slays me.
Skat, it may sound trite, and I’m sure there are many significant exceptions, but IME, Once A Cheater, Always A Cheater. You did the right thing and given Sars’ 3-month rule, you will soon see it, too.
Name, we have/had a similar situation and I was pleasantly surprised at how many people were satisfied with, “Oh, they’re not very involved in his/our life. We’re ok with it!” I think this kind of thing is pretty common so not being dramatic about the delivery defused most people’s interest. Stick to the script of “It’s no big deal!” and your guests probably will, too. After you’re married, your other married friends will be downright jealous that you don’t have all the in-law issues!!
To Name –
My hubby doesn’t have a relationship with his father (history of abuse, blah blah blah) NOR does he have a relationship with his mother’s siblings (histories of drug use and general mental imbalances, blah blah blah) AND he’s an only child — so at our wedding, it was a kazillion of my family members … and … his mother & her husband. Most people were aware that he doesn’t have much of a family but for anyone who didn’t know – and asked – we just said something along the lines of what Sars suggested.
Really, most people won’t care — “hey, where’s his family?” “oh, they aren’t in touch, don’t wor…” “hey, the bar! woo!” — so try not to stress too much about it.
“Of course, you’ll probably say, the solution is to just stop responding to them, but they know of my blog and my Flickr account.” Whew, I’m glad that this “Paranoid in Portland”–for a minute I thought that might be Tara or Dave writing in to complain about me.
Name- That is a fairly common situation, my dad is estranged from his entire family save one of his sisters and a niece (and he doesn’t even see them that much because they live three states away.) And while he’s been relatively open about the reasons for the estrangement no one in my mom’s family seems to care. He’s been considered as part of the family for decades now (and honestly with how daffy they are I doubt most of them even realize that they’ve never met any of my dad’s relatives.) Since your family seems to have accepted him as one their own already I wouldn’t worry.
It does make talking about my family weird though, because “my family” equals “mom’s family.” And I remember being surprised that a lot of other kids had two sets of extended family whereas I just had the one. Mom’s family is big enough already that I don’t even know how I could’ve handled two families.
While I agree that Skat and BF have some basic incompatibilities, and Skat should take some time to get perspective, I have to disagree with the “Once a cheater, always a cheater” comment. Just like any other generality, it glosses over a whole range of human behaviors and circumstances. I was a one-time cheater; it will never happen again.
That said, I don’t think Skat’s BF sounds like much of a catch, anyway. Take your time, Skat.
Name: I second what amy said. Gossip is a pastime for some, but most people at weddings aren’t really there to grill the happy couple about the toxic pesticides in their family trees.
Skat: Perhaps the guy isn’t really as interested in a live-in…thus the low level of general respect. He may also be a ‘late bloomer’, because coming home plastered four nights a week on a very regular basis isn’t exactly a point of pride for someone who’s 29 (see Sars’s essay “25 and Over”). Not saying that he should never get drunk, though. But if it’s more than you care for, it’s more than you care for. Let a few months go by, and don’t spend those months watching to see if he grows up. Go on with your life, and see what he does with his.
Name, I just want to say that as I finished that letter, I thought, “That is one of the more emotionally healthy things I’ve read in the Vine.”
Some people are not able to remain close in their adult lives with their families of origin, and often, I think they wind up happier with newly formed families, such as the one he’s making with you and yours. You’re right: people are going to notice the absence of his family. They can’t not notice it. So I agree with Sarah that you can say, or have your mom say, that indeed his family is not involved, and close the door there. If anybody persists, just keeeeeep not saying anything. Awkward situations are awkward, but they pass.
‘ Really, most people won’t care — “hey, where’s his family?” “oh, they aren’t in touch, don’t wor…” “hey, the bar! woo!” — so try not to stress too much about it.’
ROFL! That’s exactly it. One of my friends got married and a large portion of his family wasn’t there and I didn’t even notice long enough to ask the question. Also, I agree with MrsHaley about the response being as casual and drama-free sounding as possible. If people say it all, ‘dun-dun-duh!’ then people will be way more curious. If it’s mentioned like it’s not a big deal, people will think it’s something boring and move on. Heh!
Name, I’d ask all your buddies to sit on the groom’s side. It’ll make it less obvious that there’s so little family & it will make him feel loved, too.
And I agree with Linda. Also? Nicely neutrally maturely stated! I’m sure if I wrote your letter it would be dripping in venom & writhing like a snake. Good luck in your marriage! WooHoo!
I just want to second Margaret, ditch the “bride side, groom side” seating. I went to a wedding where the dysfunction of one partner’s family was painfully obvious, and it made questions and gossip more prevalent than they should have been that day.
Skat: I’ve been there. Many women have. The instincts that made you dump the guy are right on and should be respected. You’ve made a life and a home with this person, so second-guessing your decision to let all of that go for a new life is natural. But STICK WITH IT! In a few short months you’ll be breathing a huge sigh of relief that you got out of such an unhealthy situation, and are young enough to enjoy happier relationships with nicer guys.
Hey Name, my husband didn’t invite any of his family to our wedding–and nobody seemed to notice. (My sister made a bit of a fuss about it, but she was making a fuss about every single decision during the planning process much as she has about everything I’ve done my whole life so I sort of took it in stride.)
To Scat Cat:
If you two are always fighting over the frequency and amount of his drinking (while you are 25 and he is 29) it will be EXACTLY the same ten years from now. You can’t convince him to change; you can’t make him change. Sars said take 3 months away from him – i would say a year – so that if you should consider getting back together, the incompatibilities and problems will stand out like a sore thumb, immediately.
Thanks for the support, Sars and everyone. I hadn’t considered the point of being overly hush-hush as a draw for the more gossip-inclined; I’ll definitely make sure to keep any mention of the subject casual. I’m pretty sure the topic will come up more than once – my extended family is relatively small and somewhat traditional – but “nah, they’re not in touch… can I get you some pie?” will be the best response.
For the wedding, we’re having a very small, mostly mutual friends ceremony/reception. There will probably be more people on his side of the room than mine! Even without his blood relatives, there’s a lot of love to share in our lives. We’re going to be extremely happy.
“…but “nah, they’re not in touch… can I get you some pie?” will be the best response.”
Hee! And how. Have a wonderful wedding, and best of luck to you both. I think He’s a lucky guy.
*wipes away a small tear* You’re a good egg, Name. I wish my husband would have had the stones to tell his family to get bent when they raised an unholy ruckus (and sustained it for a dozen years and counting) about me. You’ve got a very clear perspective on it, and it seems like The Hubs-to-Be does too, so good luck and much happiness to you. The best revenge is living well, after all.
Name, congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. It sounds like you and your hubby-to-be are lucky to have one another. It took my husband 20 years to realize that hanging around with people whe make you feel like shit is not particularly healthy, but he knows it now, and we’re both much happier for the break.
Good luck to you.
MC Skat Cat,
I just want to reiterate what the others have said. You made the right decision. I wasn’t so wise. You nearly described my ex and our relationship. Unfortunately, I didn’t get out before I made the dumb decision to marry him. Things never, ever changed. Until I caught him cheating on me – then I made them change. I divorced his dumb a$$ and never looked back.
It’s normal to second-guess yourself and to wonder if you made the right decision. 3 months or 1 year, whatever boundaries you set for yourself, will prove that you did.
Take care,
Amy
A happy thought for MC Skat Cat, too — you may not be ready for this right now, but after a few months or more have gone by, not only will you have perspective about your ex, but you might meet a few people and realize, “hey, there really are guys out there who would be a so much better match for me than that one was”.