The Vine: August 7, 2013
So, here’s the deal. I’m by nature a rather impatient over-thinker, prone to imagining worst-case scenarios, which often turn out to be right.
I’m perfectly willing to acknowledge that they become self-fulfilling prophecies based on my impatience and tendency to jump to conclusions, but that doesn’t change the facts of negative reinforcement.
Of course, this manifests the worst when I’m trying to date. I’ve been single for two years now, and was in a fairly long-term relationship before that. Said relationship has earned me one of my closest friends, but it was seven years of wasted potential for the both of us (we each had an insurmountable issue that the other couldn’t deal with is the short of it), exacerbated by the fact that, for a good deal of it, I was still mourning the relationship before THAT. So, it was kind of a mess, and we’ve both moved on (in his case, he moved 3,000 miles), and we’ve come out of it very good friends, which always was the best part of us dating. Yay for that, at least.
Since then, I’ve been trying the online thing since I don’t want to date anyone in the same industry as me, and I prefer not to disrupt my social circle with romance either. I’m not saying these are absolutes, but it’d be nice to find someone outside of both of those settings and experience something new altogether. Online dating is fine, but it hasn’t really yielded anything long-term yet, obviously. And in general, dating’s never been my strong suit anyway. Previously, most of my relationships started up pretty quickly, so I’ve had many a LTR but not very many dates in contrast.
However, every time I have a prospect who seems to have good potential that I can get all excited about, I start obsessing, and if I don’t hear back soon enough, for example, I’m convinced we’re DOOMED TOTALLY DOOMED OMG, and obviously, that kind of pressure will kill anything prematurely, because hey, relax, lady. I like to attempt being fine with things naturally developing since I don’t wish to get married or have kids or even live together, but I admit, when things are nebulous, I have trouble going with any flow. Sometimes, I manage to keep it together enough not to openly glom all over whomever, but then I’m reasonably sure that at times that’s come across as not interested, and he moves on.
All this is to say I’ve just made a connection at said online dating site with someone who on paper (or pixels, I guess) is totally so many things I want in a dating partner. We haven’t even made plans to meet in real life yet, so yeah, I don’t want to start jumping to any conclusions yet, but I’d like to hear some coping suggestions so that for once, I might be able to mitigate my imagination and see if our correspondence can have an honest chance to go anywhere. How can I temper my excitement and hormones with some semblance of patience and come-what-may attitude? Even if this guy goes nowhere, it’s something I really do need to learn in general, so advice is appreciated!
Sincerely,
Hopeless At This Whole Dating Thing
Dear Hope,
It came up earlier this year in a comments thread about another online-dating ish, and it’s worth repeating: a high churn rate is key here. Not in relationships — just in the phase where you’re trying to convert to meatspace, because on “paper” does not usually translate, unfortunately. By answering as many even semi-likely emails and meeting as many even half-decent prospects as you can, you increase the likelihood that one of them is The Guy — and it dilutes the poison when that one you thought sure was The Guy is not The Guy. Or…is That Guy.
I don’t mean to discourage you about the current candidate, but as I mentioned in that thread, the obvious Buntnip never quite panned out. And it probably sounds like a nightmare to introverts; I can’t say it didn’t kill my battery some days, because it did. Dirk finally showed up, though, and the OKCupid algorithm didn’t put us together, either. He emailed me, he seemed nice, he hadn’t killed anyone according to Google, and I was like, fine, that’s a cute shirt so fuck it, and I really believe part of the reason it worked is that I didn’t leave myself enough time to overthink and pick at things and assign too much weight to any one dude, to the exclusion of other dudes. I could just hang out with him. Also, he is rad, which helps. Heh.
The other thing, though, is that, like you, I would stare off into space and push guys around on a mental table like puzzle pieces — unkempt cuticles, loves baseball, has a teenager, hates shrimp, on and on. I overthink into the sixth dimension, and it’s tiresome (to me most of all), but it’s who I am. I get excited about things, don’t think projects through, despise grey areas. And The Guy is going to think that’s kind of cute, or intriguing, or know that you’re holding it back and not mind, or when you burst out “SO DO YOU LIKE ME LIKE ME OR WHAT” he’ll be as relieved as you are because he does like you like you. I put my number in Dirk’s phone, and informed him that we would be having a second date, and when, and that it would not be Thai food, because I liked him as much as I like having a plan, which is a lot, and if he was a guy who needed a gal to pretend she enjoys 16 rounds of “whatever you want to do,” that was his time to tag out, because no. I know it makes you feel like a clingy weirdo, but you aren’t, I’m sure, so it’s not something you “need” to control, except for your own peace of mind. I mean, maybe don’t leaf through a bridal magazine on a coffee date, but you know that.
Dating is not anyone’s “strong suit,” trust me. It’s a bunch of arbitrary steps and rules — apparently? Something with wearing red near your face? I don’t know. I don’t think it’s something you do correctly or incorrectly, in any case, and I encourage you not to think of it like that — it’s a tool to let you meet people you might love. Put it to work for you, on high.
Tags: boys (and girls)
If you want more anecdotal evidence, I also online dated for several years, and all my “z0mg so perfect on paper” people fizzled in person, too. I’m now over a year into a happy relationship with someone who seemed okay online and why the hell not?
It’s a numbers game, you just have to keep at it and keep your expectations low, BUT you also have to keep an open mind and give a fair shot to each person, regardless of how they seemed online. If you’re just like, “Meh, it probably won’t work out,” then it definitely won’t.
Also helpful, in keeping things in perspective:
– Have conversations going with at least 2-3 people at once. That way, you don’t get too attached to any one prospect.
– Take a break and talk to 0 people for a while every so often. Especially if you’ve had a string of bad dates or you’re just feeling exhausted. Come back at it later, fully recharged and raring to go.
– Don’t be shy about relating your online dating drama to your friends. I found it hard to get over the initial shyness about admitting to online dating, but once I did, my friends’ perspectives were invaluable. They won’t want to obsess as much as you will, but hopefully you have several people that will enjoy occasional updates. Then you can spread out the obsession. You can also poll people on the best breezy way to answer this or that text. It becomes a group entertainment activity.
– When you feel yourself getting carried away planning matching wedding outfits/gravestones with someone you have met a total of once, distract yourself! Great outlets: friends who would enjoy a random drink on a weeknight, movies/tv/books, creative projects. I found it helpful to try to sublimate my dating energy into writing fan fiction, but ymmv.
Some credentials to start – I met my partner through online dating, we’ve been together just over 3 years and are about to move to Scotland from Australia together.
One technique I’ve used in the past to tone down my obsessing on both online and non-online dating is to say to myself “if *insert name of sensible friend* was in this situation and asked my advice, what would I tell her?”
When I’m thinking about myself, I have a tendency to get locked into negative self-talk (“of course he’s not calling me, because he doesn’t like me – why would he?”), and framing the situation as happening to a friend breaks me out of that and gives me a more charitable and unbiased view of what’s actually happening (“he might not be keen, or he might just not have gotten to it yet, if he’s not keen I’ll find out soon enough, if he’s not, he’s not the guy for me”).
Another thing I did was to try to focus on online dating not as a way to meet a partner, but as a way to practice my dating skills – like you I hadn’t had many actual “dates” in my dating history, so I actually signed up with the intention of getting a bit more comfortable with the whole thing and figuring out how it worked.
I agree with all the advice above and I would also suggest not putting off meeting the person. I think too many people spend way too long writing emails and texting before actually meeting the person and you can’t know if you’ll click until you actually meet them. When I was online dating, I would do maybe three or four long emails before I suggested meeting (if they didn’t first). I think it helped a lot – you don’t have as much time to obsess.
Met my husband on okcupid this way. I was also of the mindset, “hey, I’ll just practice dating,” which helped. He seemed interesting so I gave it a shot.
Much luck to you. I had some pretty bad email exchanges and dates before I found a good one.
LOVE what Lulu said. I think that I do them all but have never seen them laid out so clearly. I also have to second the whole “but you were so awesome on paper. What happened?” thing that the others mentioned. One last thing: I learned that if I just sit back and treat it more of a fun whatever happens happens thing rather than this serious occasion my experience is better even if I spend an hour getting lectured by a guy one step away from being Professor John Frink from the Simpsons like I did today :)
GOOD LUCK HOPE!!
I like what Robyn said about treating it like dating practice. Or think of it as just making a new friend if it stops the obsessing.
I connected with my husband online before dating online got big, and not from a dating site (we’re talking before stalwarts like eHarmony existed). We just shared interests online that spilled into private e-mail, and later on he was moving three hours away from me by pure coincidence (grad school), so I said what the heck, we should try to meet in person sometime, I’ll be able to finally meet a friend I’ve had for a while.
I expected nothing whatsoever other than lunch and a good conversation or two, which was almost a first for me. We’ve been married for nearly a decade.
I met my husband when we both worked at Borders (we had nothing to do with the chain going bankrupt, I swear!) and while we both were into each other in “I don’t know you but hmmmm….” way, it took a while for us to realize we were That Guy/Gal for each other. And that was after knowing each other in real life for months.
The big thing about online dating is the online part does what the internet does so well in general–punches those seretonin buttons real good, baby. The point and click, the scanning the “on pixel” perfection, the exchanging of personas is very very appealing. Which, in my opinion, makes it a little harder on both parties then it should be when you finally meet up at the coffee shop and are struggling subconsciously to click over to Cute Overload when the convo gets awkward.
I agree that you shouldn’t invest too much in the online zing before meeting, because you condition yourself to expect the zing from the real guy, and nobody is the person they are online.
You know you overthink and make yourself nuts, so give that part of yourself a little less leash. Just say to Potential, “Hey, this seems to be working here, I’d like to meet in real time and see if it goes anywhere.”
Some guys will jump at the chance. Some will want a little more time. Some will be creepy randos/married/come here-go away types that call you “pushy” or “aggressive” and then IM you the next day whining “How come you didn’t answer me last night?”
It’s the name of the game. Play the numbers and see if you can spread things out enough so your particular personality type doesn’t get overinvested. And have some fun, for God’s sake. It’s allowed.
I’m not a believer in online dating sites/stuff myself, but a good friend of mine met her husband that way and now they have one beautiful daughter and a son due any minute. I keep telling them they should do a commercial for whichever one they used!
Seconding what Sars said about ‘good on paper does not equal good in life’. I started talking to a guy on OkCupid who was super-cute and it seemed like we had tons in common, but when I met him there was zero chemistry. I explained to a colleague later that I felt more attracted to her than I did to this guy. And I realize that this sounds incredibly depressing and will ramp up your pessimism, but just go into the date without all that good-on-paper knowledge and treat it like he’s a brand new person you’re meeting for the first time. That way you won’t be freaking out about how perfect he is/if he’s not living up to what you thought he’d be, and just meet him as who he is in real life.
Hopeless, one thing stands out in your letter: “. . .I don’t wish to get married or have kids or even live together. . .”
So, why do you want to date? Because you need a SO to feel complete? Because you want someone to do stuff with? Because you want regular sex and if you’re like many women, you want a steady partner who’s STD free and let’s face it, to get good sex you have to be with someone a few times and help them learn what gets you there. But I digress.
I wonder if you need to step back and figure out WHY you want to date and perhaps from there you can figure out why you always jump right from “fantastic first date” to “I know it’s going to end horribly so I’m going to bail now.”
Want someone to do stuff with? Maybe you need more of what Aristole calls Friendships of Convenience (or Utility). You have a friend and all you do is ski together. It’s the only thing you have in common but you always have a great time so when you want to ski, you call ski-friend.
No one has mentioned the T word so I will. Therapy. Or maybe a few books. I’m a big advocate of cognitive therapy because I never really cared about what in my past set off the behavior, I wanted to know how to cope and change. Plus they have homework and worksheets and I found it easier to get the discussion ball rolling that way.
Wow, I just made it all about me, didn’t I?
How’s this for a wrap up: you recognize your patterns and want to change. You’ve reached out to the nation, a bunch known for not sugar coating advice. You’re ready to take action and explore options. We’re all pulling for you and we’d love to hear back from you whether it’s just a “hey–still figuring it out” or “hey, need a bit more advice.”
I would also add this about “good on paper”: if you’re spending some time on OKCupid et al., you’re in their algorithmic mindset about what works for matching people successfully. In other words, because it’s framed as “I like this that and the other kind of TV, music, food,” that’s how you’re thinking of potential mates, when what really sets something on fire between two people is not that they both love all the same things, or even most of the same things. If you have a couple of those things, to start a conversation, great, but if the chemistry isn’t there, sharing an exactly matched DVR season-pass list won’t help.
I mean, I never in my life thought I would end up married to someone who has never seen a frame of The Sopranos, but here we are.
Hope, the part of your letter that stood out to me was the pattern of thinking that you described. It seems to have you stuck in a mental loop that you’re not finding very productive or helpful! While I know this is kind of a go-to advice column answer these days, I think you might benefit from a few sessions of CBT. You’re already aware of the thought patterns, but maybe a good professional could help you get to the root of them, and devise ways to re-route your mind.
As someone who is similarly prone to over-thinking and talking myself into/out of things, I was convinced that no one outside of my brain could have any insight I hadn’t already discovered. Happily, that wasn’t the case, and a few sessions with a helpful counselor were far more beneficial than I expected. You may even be able to find a book or website that has some general tips for cognitive therapy that could get you started without having to book an appointment. Either way, best of luck and know that you are by no means alone!
BTW I’m loving the other “how we met” stories here! The simple, low-key ones are so nice. But all this talk of dating makes me so glad I’m out of the game now. I don’t miss that anxiety one bit!
Hey, all!
Thanks for taking the time to read my plea for help. I realize that I didn’t clarify a few things, but I’ve been appreciating the feedback. Let me clarify a few things:
The most important point I forget to make clear was that a promising prospect about whom I end up obsessing over and jumping to conclusions (sorry, awkward syntax) is one who I’ve met in person and had great chemistry with and done more with than just chat and a handshake. That’s where it all goes wrong — by going very right! And well, maybe I am clingy. It’s hard for me to tell. I know when I don’t care about something, it’s easy to relax and let things roll out however, but then if I don’t care about someone, I’m not going to want to date him, right?
I totally agree that communicating with more than one prospect at a time helps immensely in meeting folks online. I definitely try to do that and to be making plans to meet with multiple folks. However. I’m not very attractive, in all honesty. I can polish the surface pretty well, but the basic foundation just ain’t all that. So, even when I’m taking the initiative to reach out to dudes online (which I do frequently), I rarely get a response back. Thus, the few poor bastards who do respond or reach out to me get a lot of my attention.
And I do talk over this stuff with my friends, many of whom have dated online too, but at some point, they’re not objective because they know me very well. So yeah, the sensible, non-sugar-coating of the Vine community seemed like a good place to start for an outside perspective, and I’m appreciating the feedback so far!
I also have a follow-up to this initial email that I’ll post in the comments here, but this response seems long enough already. Stay tuned for part II!
So, I actually wrote this question a little while ago, but it still remains pertinent. In the meantime though, I did actually meet the guy in person. And we had a glorious first date. And then the next weekend, we had a glorious second date. Until the end of it when I suggested we stop making out in the subway station and perhaps make out somewhere more private. Suddenly, he was stating he was only looking for platonic friends (on a dating site) to go out to see shows with and then call it a night. Up to that point, he’d made every first move — contacting me, asking me out, the kiss, etc. I made it clear that platonic wasn’t how I’d approached meeting him, nor had it been how we’d been getting to know each other, and so, after much talking, we agreed we had to go our separate ways.
Ridiculously enough though, he then reached out to me again and did his best to pursue keeping me in his life, but when we finally made plans to hang out again, he stood me up. Although he still tried to keep in touch after that, I finally told him to stop it, and so, that was that. It was obnoxious, because those dates were glorious, but well, the neuroses apparently weren’t all on my side in that incidence.
Nanc in Ashland, I’m wanting to respond specifically to you in that I’m a little confused by your question. Just because I don’t want marriage or kids doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy a loving, supportive, long-term relationship. I’ve got plenty of friends to do stuff with and who adore me, I’m quite comfortable with my wants and needs sexually (and dating someone is no guarantee they’ll be taken care of, as we all know), and I’ve got a good life going. To me, sharing it with someone is something we all want to do, with or without a legal ceremony. The lack of interest in kids or a legal ceremony doesn’t negate the normal desire for and enjoyment of a longterm relationship, ya know?
I’ve done some cognitive therapy in the past (with my ex), so yeah, I’m also a fan. And maybe I’ll ease my way towards that again. It’s certainly not out of the question!
Argh, incidence should instance.
Should BE instance. I’m going to stop now.
Hopeless, thanks for checking back in. I’m glad you DO know what you want in a relationship and why you want to date to find that. I didn’t get that in your initial letter, hence the wondering. It’s always crystal clear in my brain what I’m saying and what comes out the keyboard doesn’t always give the same message. Sorry the guy you met in person didn’t work out as you might have hoped. Good for you for laying out what you wanted in the relationship and shutting it down when it didn’t work.
You may have already thought about this, but I’m just going to throw it out there.
Do you have any interests for which there are online communities? If so, that might be a great way to meet some potential love interests as well as friends. If you enjoy a sport, an activity, a TV show, a band, a hobby, etc., you might want to look for an online forum for it. Even if you don’t meet The One, you’ll be spending time talking to people about something that interests you, and that’s not wasted time.
I’ve met many of my friends as well as eventually my husband through an online message board for the real-life running club to which I belong. By the time I met my now-husband for the first time, he knew that I was funny and self-deprecating and I knew that he was smart and well-read. We both knew the other one was a runner. We hadn’t filled out some kind of profile; we’d just interacted online as fellow humans with mutual interests and mutual friends. When we met for the first time, he said to me, “Oh, YOU’RE Clover!” as if he’d been curious for years about me. And the rest is history.
Thanks, Nanc! I definitely wrestle with that problem too (as evidenced by my errata already here). It was a big step for me to be able to tell the guy to go away, so I find that a positive, at least.
Clover, I definitely am involved in online communities and have made many friends that way too, so I’m cool with it. It’s once I start meeting them IRL that everything seems to get more complicated.
And to respond all the back up to Sarah D. Bunting, it’s true that I’m more able to deal with whatever parameter is given clearly to me, so long as the parameter is actually clearly given. So, to be all rhetorical about this, why do dudes have to have a problem with clearly stating their boundaries? Bah, humbug, I say!
“And to respond all the back up to Sarah D. Bunting, it’s true that I’m more able to deal with whatever parameter is given clearly to me, so long as the parameter is actually clearly given. So, to be all rhetorical about this, why do dudes have to have a problem with clearly stating their boundaries? Bah, humbug, I say!”
That sounds fair to me! Be on the same page, be honest – don’t waste my time. I’m not here just to amuse a guy, I’m here to try this on, see how it fits, and not to be your “go to” when you’re bored. I think you make good points!
@Sarah – clearly I’m the only person in the world who didn’t know you got married. Congratulations, however belated they may be. :)
Thanks!
@Shannon: No, you’re not. I was thinking exactly the same – how on earth did I miss that? Congratulations, Sars!
Me three! When was this announced??? Congratulations!
Me four! Congrats, Sars!
And good advice to Hopeless. As a serial-non-dater myself, I muse about online dating, but can’t quite get myself motivated, despite enjoying being in a relationship when it happens. Not unlike wanting to be a swimsuit model, but being unwilling to spend the time in the gym. Alas.
Hopeless, parts of your letter could have been written by one of my best friends. I love her dearly. Her romantic life exhausts me. In the last 10 years (we are mid-30s), she’s had a couple relationships that lasted about a year, several that lasted 5-10 months, and an unknown number that ranged from two to 12 dates. I think she said she estimates she’s been on dates with something like a hundred guys in the last few years
Lulu advised above: “Don’t be shy about relating your online dating drama to your friends. … They won’t want to obsess as much as you will, but hopefully you have several people that will enjoy occasional updates. Then you can spread out the obsession. You can also poll people on the best breezy way to answer this or that text. It becomes a group entertainment activity.”
Please be careful how you use your friends. I am not entertained. I have now begun to cringe every time my friend mentions a new guy. She wants to discuss and dissect everything about every guy. Every. single. guy. She starts obsessing after a decent first date. She obsesses every step of the way through every relationship. Recently she was crushed when she was “unceremoniously dumped” (her words) one month after she met the guy.
My friend does spread out her dating drama, and it’s still exhausting. I know I’m not her only friend who feels this way, because on a recent email chain with three of us, the third friend called her out in a way I’ve dreamed of doing.
I’ve suggested she get professional help, because I can no longer provide her with objective perspective on her relationships for a couple reasons. First, obviously, I’m sick to death of talking about it. Second, because she is otherwise an interesting, professional woman who “has it together” as much of any of us do.
TL;DR — Don’t draw your friends into your obsession. Take care of yourself. Seek professional help if you are obsessing frequently enough that it’s affecting your life.
@Shannon and @Sars – Same here. I was skimming through nodding, yep, yep, and then i saw “married” and thought, what’s-that-now? And then I read the same sentence 3 more times just to be sure. ANYWAY, congratulations, Sars! Very belated, I’m sure, but congrats nonetheless. : )
Killing time at work in the midst of crazy proposal season, reading through the archives, scrolling through the comments – @Sars, you sly devil! Congrats!