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The Vine

The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: August 9, 2001

Submitted by on August 9, 2001 – 4:16 PMNo Comment

Hi Sars,

I’m writing about Sincerely Concerned. I think she may be a little selfish — I mean, come on, she as much said she wants her mom around when they start having kids. Do you suppose that is entirely for emotional support (which she clearly cannot give right now?)

I agree with you, that she ought to talk to her mom, and sell the house and get therapy. But then what? She needs support. Maybe Mom ought to sell the house and buy a condo nearby. Or maybe Mom ought to try a retirement community. Or join a church or a community centre or something. I think that having some support nearby is very important. Does Mom have any close friends? Does she have a sister or brother? If not, then maybe it’s time for Daughter to step up to the plate. Sometimes if you’re not right there, all the encouragement in the world doesn’t help. Anyhoo, just thought I’d toss in my two bits.

Been There


Dear Been There,

Yeah…here’s an idea. READ THE ORIGINAL LETTER. Because when you do, you’ll probably see that

1. Sincerely Concerned didn’t “as much as” say any such thing. She said she and her husband want to start having kids. She said she’d love to have her mother around — not when or because she’ll have kids, mind you, but just that she’d love it. I inferred from that that she thinks three generations in a “tiny apartment” might get to be a bit much. Where are you getting this “she just wants free babysitting” thing? I think you’re projecting.

2. I didn’t say she should “talk to her mom, and sell the house and get therapy.” Sincerely Concerned didn’t say that, either. Maybe it’s just a slip of the tongue on your part, but it’s pretty revealing. It’s HER MOTHER that needs the therapy, not SC. Oh, hello again, projection.

3. “maybe it’s time for Daughter to step up to the plate. Sometimes if you’re not right there, all the encouragement in the world doesn’t help” is pretty clearly your neurosis, not Sincerely Concerned’s. Daughter is willing to step up — she said as much! In so many words! That’s why she wrote in the first place! You! Are! Projecting!

I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience with this type of situation, but you’ve read several Proustian volumes into the letter, and into my response, that just aren’t there.


Sars,

I just have a quick etiquette question:

A friend of mine is living with a man the rest of our group doesn’t get along with. Actually, that’s putting it rather nicely…we can’t stand him, he can’t stand us, and any time that we have had to spend together in the past has been absolute hell on earth.

The newest problem is this: we’re all getting together at another friend’s house in a couple of weeks, and while we would LOVE to see our friend, the very thought of seeing her SO again has us in knots. He makes everyone miserable with his constant bitching and ranting, and the way he treats her (even in front of us) makes us all sick to our stomachs.

So, how do we tell her that while we would love to see her and spend time with her again, we would rather she leave him at home? I know that it will make her angry; I would be angry too if they ever told me I could come over if I left my SO at home. I, however, have never been in her position…the rest of us have always dated people that the others liked, so it really hasn’t come up before.

We don’t want to alienate her and we don’t want her to hate us…but we also don’t want to see or deal with him and his rude, childish antics all weekend. We’re all adults here, and we’ve tried to just grin and bear it in the past, but it’s gotten to the point where everyone else backs out if they know he’s going to be there. Should we just tell her and risk pissing her off forever, or plan the weekend and just hope that he doesn’t show?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Stuck in the Middle


Dear Stuck,

Yes, it’s an attractive fantasy — sitting her down and saying, “Your SO is a dicksmack. We’ve tried, but we can’t take him anymore, and if you don’t believe us, look at how many times we’ve bailed on plans with you when we found out he’d be there. He’s a jerk, and he’s alienating your friends, so WAKE UP” — but nobody in the history of human relationships has ever reacted well to that shit. NOBODY. There’s yelling and whining and “you don’t know him like I do”-ing and “then you must not like me either”-ing, and it’s just not worth it.

One friend of mine and I have planned get-togethers around diluting the effects of a third friend’s asswipe boyfriend for, like, three years now. You would not believe the excuses we’ve come up with for not going to their place for dinner, or for making it “GIRLS NIGHT ONLY” in a giant font, or for inviting a cast of thousands to our own parties in order to make him less likely to cause an awkward scene. We don’t like him. Nobody who meets him likes him. He’s eminently unlikable. But we’ve got no choice.

So, invite her. Hope he doesn’t come. When he comes — because, you know, they always do — smile and make the best of it, but if he provokes you, call him on it. You can’t cut him out of your life without cutting her out too, but you don’t have to tolerate his bullshit.


I need to ask your advice regarding wedding planning. I’ve written to you before for advice. This is kinda long, so there’s no need to put it in the Vine or anything. I was the one with the MS who got surgery and had a friend who was insensitive about recovery; you rightly pegged that I needed closure, so I took your advice, talked to him about it, and while we aren’t friends, at least we got the issues out.

Okay, moving on. About wedding planning. My mother is paying for my wedding. She wants a big gala reception thing. Whatever. I have a big family, they’re all great people, and if she’s paying for it, yes, we can rent out a whole hotel (BIG family) and pay for the entire botanical gardens just for the reception, blah dee blah. She never got married and I’m her only daughter, so I understand her reasons for wanting a huge wedding (she’s taking out a small loan). My original idea was to do this in a public park in my hometown, get a friend (who’s a justice of the peace) to do the honors, have everyone show up in picnic-style clothes, do a potluck, and play mud volleyball to celebrate our love. You can see that I’ve compromised a heck of a lot already. I’m sort of blah-dee-blah about the whole thing, and so is my fiancé — we just want to have a good time.

The only sticking point is the menu at the reception. We have several people with dietary restrictions and food allergies, some quite restrictive and reaching the life-threatening, Heimlich-maneuver, “my great-grandmothers dying at the head table from simultaneous heart failure and insulin shock” sort of level. I think it would make good sense, given all these restrictions, to have a vegan, wheat-free, sugar-free reception. The exceptions would be the wedding cake (there would be other desserts) and bread-and-Brie, for the simple reason that bread and Brie has been the only element in my wedding fantasies I’ve ever wanted. I like Brie. We have competing bids from several competent and tasty caterers, each of whom are creative and can do wonders with zero extra expense. Money is not the problem.

My mother wants three meat dishes, veggies in butter, full-fat and full-sugar desserts, the whole nine yards. Those who have dietary restrictions can deal with a couple of side dishes and one dessert option. Her take on it is that the carnivores in our family will be offended if we don’t have meat. I’m thinking, what will they do? Object to the vows on the grounds that marriage can only be cemented over a nice flank steak? Storm out of the reception in unison, singing “Beer and Brats Forever”? There may be a little discussion if they even notice at all, but for one night, they can eat vegan. I’m trying to accommodate the people with the most serious objections here, and a little possible discomfort over filling up on portabellos and arugula seems insignificant compared to my elderly grandmothers starving because the two possible side dishes have been eaten already, or being told exactly what they can and can’t eat, or more likely, getting sick because they want to eat what everyone else does. My family is quite reasonable about allergies, and last Thanksgiving they significantly altered all five dinners because one step-grandmother was recently diagnosed with a gluten allergy. She didn’t ask for any consideration, and it wasn’t certain that she was going to be at half of these dinners — my family just works around these things cheerfully to make sure everybody is comfortable in any given situation. Mom wasn’t at these dinners (making allowances in her own dinners, cooking for two of the sick blood relations in another state), so even though I’ve tried explaining it to her that I really don’t think they’d mind, she doesn’t quite understand that even the most obstinate members of my blood relations have a great deal of empathy in them. And the step-relations (who are the only snotty, non-empathetic ones in the bunch) are in the group of those being accommodated to, so even they wouldn’t mind. The blood relations I’ve asked all say they don’t mind eating vegan and in fact think it would be cool, but think I should do my mother’s menu because someone else might get offended by the lack of meat, or my mother would be offended that people didn’t passionately want her menu. This whole debate is really funny if you look at it — the only reason they want meat is because someone else might get offended, but that militant carnivore hasn’t yet been found. Even Mom plans to skip the meat herself. Everybody is so worried about someone else being uncomfortable, even the people who would be severely restricted by the traditional meal, and of course they’d eat foods that aren’t good for them to avoid offending the caterers or me or my mother. The Thanksgiving dinners worked because there were only ten to twenty people at each one, give or take, and each group cooked the meal together — and this wedding is going to involve at least a hundred people at one sitting with none of us involved in the food production.

On her side, well, she’s paying for it, and traditionally one does have meat at receptions. On my side, my family would be understanding, even appreciative; I’ve basically given up my initial ideas right down to where we’re buying the dress, where I’m staying the night before, the photographer, the first dance (the fiancé and I wanted a Weird Al Yankovic song — odd, but one that’s very personal for us, and she insisted on a traditional song), chose my bridesmaids, musicians…the only thing that’s mine in this is the style of the dress and the maid of honor. I’d like to plan the menu, and I don’t think it’s much in light of all I’ve given up to her. She’s not exactly steamrollering over all my choices, and we’re good friends in addition to the mother-daughter thing so it’s not too bad (I did tell her that the photographer has exactly one half hour to take posed pictures involving me, because I hate picture-taking and my eyes can’t take the flash, and for the rest, you pick your battles, and the rest isn’t as big a deal for me as it is for her). She doesn’t have abysmal taste or anything, and she’s a fantastic cook, so it’s not like her menu is boiled tongue and green beans with lard. It’s filet, and portabello in beef broth, and chicken cordon bleu, and quiches and yummy chocolate death eclairs and streusel…I’m hungry now, better stop. It would be the best menu ever at a wedding, but not exactly healthy and non-life-threatening for everyone.

Okay, so who’s right? Is this a battle that either of us can win? Is it even worth it for me? What’s an acceptable compromise here, and how can I phrase it to her to adapt the menu? I’ve tried posting on Hissyfit using the vaguest descriptions I can use without offending my mother (who is also on Hissyfit), but it hasn’t worked. I need advice from someone who isn’t in on this wedding and isn’t as concerned as we are with offending The Unknown Carnivore or anyone else. There’s got to be a way we can have a fantastic spread that accommodates my mother and I both, because I know how much she wants a super-indulgent fairy-tale wedding. I also don’t want to be too selfish — I may be a little too unreasonable with the vegan thing. (Yeah, I know, I’m the one getting married, not her, but I’m paying for and planning a very small religious ceremony that’s completely under my direction.)

Thanks so much. Better not post it in The Vine — it’s a little long and complicated, plus my mother might see it (she thinks you’re fab, and she’s a professional writer as well so she would know, and everybody in my family who’s a writer has seen your site and loves you to pieces). Plus I already have cool swag, so don’t need the T-shirt.

J


Dear J,

Do as your mother wants. That’s what you do best — that, and feel guilty for wanting to do things differently. I mean, I would tell you to put your foot down, but that’s pretty clearly not your strong suit. Your mother runs you like you’re thirteen.

You say you have a close friendship with your mother, but then you creep around on sites the two of you both read, trying to get advice on how to handle her without her finding out. “Don’t run this letter — she might see it”? First of all, Vine don’t play that. Second of all, what if she does see it? (Hi, J’s Mom. Glad you like the site.) No, seriously — what happens if she reads it? You’ve already let her hijack one of the most important days of your life and run it like a tasting menu — what else could she do, substitute a man of her choosing for your fiancé? It’s not like you’d argue with that, either. “Well, she’s paying — I guess this guy’s okay.”

I don’t doubt that your mother means well, you just want to keep the peace, maybe you’ve relied on her heavily in the past because of your illness and you don’t know how to assert yourself and blah blah blah. Regardless of the reasons, you don’t know how to stand up to her, and if you didn’t do it back when she took out a freakin’ loan to run YOUR WEDDING, well, it’s your mother’s world. You just live in it.

[deep breath] Okay. Here’s what you do. Tell the caterers to set it up buffet-style. It sounds kind of unclassy, but there’s a way to do it so that it seems very Continental — laying it out on banded china instead of aluminum pans, that kind of thing — and you can ask the caterers to provide little menu cards beside each dish, listing the ingredients and prep methods. Before dinner, set out a table with cut-up vegetables, cheese and yummy bread, rice cakes with clever little crab doodads on top, whatever you want. For dinner, offer a meat, a fish, a pasta with cheese, and then a range of gluten-free vegan entrees (it’s very chic nowadays to have Indian food at your wedding, and Indian cuisine offers a variety of wheat- and ovo-lacto-free dishes that don’t taste like paste). Same with dessert; next to the cake table, put an “alternative dessert” table with fresh-fruit compote, mousse, and mini-pies with no crust.

And for the love of Mike, don’t ask your mother if you can do this. Tell her you’re doing it, and do it.

[8/9/01]

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