The Vine: December 29, 2010
Two weeks ago, my fiancé, J, went to sleep and didn’t wake up the next day. He was 31 years old, generally healthy, and we still don’t know exactly what happened. We are waiting for some more test results as the autopsy was inconclusive. I could write a book on how I’m feeling — distraught, sad, lonely, but that’s not the issue at hand, the issue is our dog.
We had been together for seven and half years. We got a dog four years ago, a Labrador I’ll call Lab. He lived at J’s house but I was his doggie “Mom” as J called me. I carried him in my lap when we picked him up at the breeder, took him to the vet for his shots, trained him to sit and stay, helped J leash train him, etc. We loved that dog like a son. Cesar Milan would not be happy with the way we treated him, he was the center of our lives. Every single person who knew J knew about Lab and how much he loved him. He carried pictures in his wallet. He would call home to “talk” to him when we were on vacation. Lab was everything to J.
We only lived together, officially, in the last year. This was due to his father. J was close to his dad and so when he lost his job four years ago, J took care of him. I, in my stubborn stupidity, refused to live with them because I thought it was wrong that his dad leeched off him like that (I still think that, but that’s another letter). Despite refusing to officially live together, however, I spent three or four nights a week at J’s house for the last five years. I pretty much lived there.
Last year after we got engaged, we moved in together — J, his dad, Lab and me. Financially, it was much better for us and J was sure his Dad was finally pulling himself together and would only be there temporarily (he’s still there). So we lived in relative happiness until this happened.
Two days after J died, I came home from visiting some friends and J’s dad told me that J’s mom and sister were taking Lab, that J wanted the dog to “stay in the family” — that this is what J wanted to happen, if anything ever happened to him. J’s sister was there saying things like, “J never really loved you anyway” and “he wouldn’t trust you with that dog” (she likes to hurt people when she’s in pain, she gets it from her dad). The combination of the two of them crumbled me. I was in shock and was having difficulty thinking in coherent sentences. I started bawling and saying things like “no,” “please don’t take him,” “I need him with me” and such. Essentially, I panicked. J’s family just looked at me like I was nuts. My friends hustled me out of there, worried because I was crying so hard. I stayed at my grandparents’ that night and when I came home, Lab was gone, moved to J’s mother’s house.
If I had been thinking straight, I wouldn’t have let them take him, I’d have gotten the cops involved if necessary, but I was still so overcome with grief I didn’t know what to do. Looking back I’m kicking myself for letting it happen.
I’m angry and heartbroken twice over. I’ve been able to visit Lab for short periods and I can see he’s miserable — J’s Mom has drugged him to keep him calm and started keeping him in his kennel most of the day. He’s so confused. I’m losing my mind. Legally, I don’t have any options, J and I weren’t married and Lab’s papers are in J’s name only. I have no way of refuting what they are saying J said while alive (there’s no will). I know he wouldn’t have wanted Lab ripped away from me like this.
To make matters worse, J’s dad still lives at my house (his parents are divorced). I have to see him every day. I’ve thought about kicking him out (the lease is in my name), making him suffer for what he’s done, but I feel like I’m dishonoring J’s memory if I do. But I also feel like I’m letting J and Lab down if I don’t fight harder to get him back. I’ve tried talking calmly to J’s mom but she just gets defensive, telling me it’s for my own good and she’s only doing what J would have wanted.
The anger is consuming me. I can’t work, sleep or concentrate on anything — just worrying about Lab and how I could get him back. I don’t know what to do at this point. I’m talking to a therapist, but it slow going and I’m just so angry — I want my damn dog. Aside from dog-napping I don’t know what to do. How do I move past this?
PSA to the Nation: make a will, whether you think you need one or not
Dear Will,
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Your first job is to forgive yourself, for everything. Forgive yourself for every bitter, irrational, uncharitable emotion you’ve felt since J’s death — including anger at J for abandoning you and putting you in these situations, which is completely normal and doesn’t mean you didn’t, and don’t, love him. Forgive yourself also for every situation you didn’t handle calmly and thoughtfully, before J’s death as well as after it, because you’re human. “I should have this with J’s dad, I should have that when they tried to take Lab” — well, maybe, but your emotions don’t follow a subroutine (and not for nothing, but neither do J’s family’s). You’re doing the best you can in a situation nobody saw coming.
The second thing is to understand that, however you feel about Lab qua Lab, none of this is about the dog. This is the almost inevitable competition to establish whom the deceased loved one honored and trusted more. This is the substitution of the things (or pets) the loved one loved for the loved one himself. This is, in the absence of the loved one, what comfort and purpose might seem to remain, horrible and inadequate and necessary.
It sucks, but it almost has to happen, in other words, and you have to acknowledge it for what it is and try to remember that it isn’t a comment on your fitness as a person or a fiancée, and it doesn’t go on forever.
In the meantime? Get a lawyer. I don’t recommend this for scorch-the-earth reasons, but rather because a probate attorney has seen hundreds of situations like this (and far worse), and is in a coolly objective position to advise you on your rights in the situation — and to communicate them to J’s family — that you are not. Yes, it could seem hostile to J’s family, but 1) you’ve tried other means, in vain, and 2) you need to try not to worry about that and focus on protecting yourself, and reducing your exposure to situations that will double down on your grief. Hire an attorney, one who’s recommended if you can (perhaps the readers can help there, if you’re comfortable sharing your location), and explain the situation to her — because part of what’s hindering your ability to move on is that you don’t know where to move on to, or whether you should, or what. I mean, I would advise punting J’s dad from the house pronto unless he can furnish a written agreement stating that he gets to stay, but I don’t know if you can, or if you can, how.
And keep going to therapy, and keep reminding yourself that this is hard and unfair and nobody can reasonably expect you to know exactly how to behave every minute.
Greetings:
Two of my good friends (call them Alice and Bob) are getting married to each other, and this is absolutely a good thing. They are getting married at a little mountain resort a few hours from where we live. In conversation with Alice recently, my wife (call her Carol) discovered two things: First, that they were thinking of asking me to officiate at the wedding, and second, that they wanted no children to attend.
The former is great by me; I officiated at the wedding of two of our mutual friends (call them Dana and Ed, with the former a very likely bridesmaid here) a few years ago, so I know the drill, and it would be honor to officiate at Alice and Bob’s wedding. The latter, however, is a big problem.
Carol and I have a baby (call him Frank) who will be a year old and change at the time of the wedding. We have no family in the area, and while we have a couple of babysitting options that would be acceptable for a few hours, there is no one (local or otherwise) with whom we’d be willing to leave Frank for a weekend. Frank is a mostly happy and outgoing little guy, but he’s also quite dependent on Carol and me. Perhaps that will change in a few months, but we certainly can’t count on it. So, leaving him behind while we go to the wedding is entirely off the table. (I can already hear a chorus of people in the comments ready to chime in with how their baby could be left with a babysitter for the weekend, because they are better parents than we are; I am quite sure they are absolutely correct, and I would ask that they enjoy their smug superiority in silence, because I could not care less.)
That leaves us with five options that I see: 1) I go to the resort alone. 2) Carol and Frank come with me, but they stay behind at the hotel while I go to the wedding and reception. 3) We bring a suitable babysitter to the resort, and leave Frank with him/her while Carol and I attend the wedding. 4) We convince Alice to change her “No Damn Kids!” policy so that Frank can attend. 5) I decline to officiate, and Carol and I both decline to attend.
Option 1 sucks, because I’ll resent having to leave Carol and Frank behind, and Carol will be none too thrilled to be left behind. Option 2 is even worse, since it forces Carol to drag Frank out to the resort so that they can both sit around the hotel for half a day or more. Option 3 is expensive and impractical, since I don’t know that any likely babysitter is going to want to kill their weekend to not attend a wedding any more than Carol does.
That leaves options 4 and 5. We would love to persuade Alice to reverse her policy, but it’s not at all clear how to do so. I’m not certain what made her decide to exclude children, but I’m sure she has (at least in part) internalized the pervasive clamor of advice telling her to be selfish and hold firm on it. Given that there doesn’t seem to be any sort of law prohibiting the exclusion of children from social events, Alice certainly has the right to do so. However, what the “It’s her Special Day and she should get whatever she wants!!1!” crowd fails to acknowledge is that sometimes the exercise of a right has consequences. Unless we can persuade her to change her policy (or find a sixth option), one of those consequences will be our absence from the wedding. Given that Alice will likely be quite upset about this situation, and given that Dana and Ed are closer to Alice and Bob than we are, this will put a very severe, and possibly terminal, strain on our friendships with all four of them.
One possible avenue toward the fourth option comes through Dana. She is pregnant, and will have a three-month-old infant at the time of the wedding. Leaving a near-toddler behind for the weekend is one thing, but leaving a newborn behind is another. Dana apparently told Alice that they’d “work something out” regarding the baby. My temptation is to ask Dana, privately, how she plans to handle the matter, and express that it is a very big problem for us. This might point us toward a previously unconsidered course of action, and it would provide a sort of back channel to Alice that might make negotiations go a bit more smoothly.
Carol is quite offended and upset about the whole situation; she just wants to decline the invitation and let the chips fall where they may. I would prefer a more diplomatic approach, if one can be found. So, do you see any way we can address this situation other than declining the invitation outright?
Being A Good Parent Sometimes Means Being A Bad Friend
Dear Parent,
I think it also sometimes means seeing selfish, clueless snubs where none exist, viz. the following comments in your letter:
I’m sure she has (at least in part) internalized the pervasive clamor of advice telling her to be selfish and hold firm on it.
[W]hat the “It’s her Special Day and she should get whatever she wants!!1!” crowd fails to acknowledge is that sometimes the exercise of a right has consequences.
Your current tone won’t get much accomplished, I can tell you that much. Yes, Alice may have bowed to pressure to “selfishly” exclude children — or she may just not have the budget to include the short set. Or the resort may have placed the reception in a bar, in which the laws of the state do not allow underage children. Or maybe planning a wedding is complicated, and Alice went with a blanket policy on the kiddos that would close off a few avenues of anticipatory planning and make her life a little easier, heaven forfend.
I don’t like the Perfect Special Day nonsense any better than you do, but I don’t see that here, and if anyone needs a high-handed reminder on rights having consequences here, I…think it’s you. Having a little kid can mean you don’t get to do stuff, or that you have to choose between a social occasion and family togetherness, and that can be tough. But…tough. You know? Way of the world; not Alice’s doing.
And you’ve gotten away ahead of the problem in the first place. Can’t you wait for Alice to ask you to officiate, and explain at that time that, while you’d love to, you would have to bring Frank along, for the reasons you’ve just outlined to me — and you don’t think that dovetails with her no-children policy? Can’t you, as a member of the wedding, ask for an exemption? Ask, mind you — not lecture her on the imminent “possibly terminal” strain on the friendships, not refer to “negotiations” as though she has fired an actual missile into Frank’s bedroom. Ask. See if she can make an exception.
If she won’t bend on the no-kids thing, well, do what you need to do, but both you and Carol have gone straight to “offended,” and I really think it’s not necessary. See what Alice actually wants to do, and if Frank can’t go with you and you don’t see a solution to that problem, decline the invitation and let the shit go. Lots and lots of situations don’t work for/with diaper-age children. Taking it personally each time this is the case is a waste of your time with no basis in fact.
Tags: etiquette kids the fam
IF Alice asks you to officiate, and IF you decide to do so, can you check with the resort to see if they provide baby-sitting services, if only for a couple of hours? Then maybe you and Carol can bounce back and forth between the reception and your room.
um – wow – maybe i’m still recovering from my wedding, but here’s my response – no kids is no kids. there is a reason for it (mine was that it was a Friday night wedding and most kids would be asleep by the time dinner was served – we did make it no kids under 10 in our case to include family.)
Being officiant is an exception, see if she can bend or help you out or if you and the other person can split a babysitter.
but – no kids is no kids. we had one person who had a sitter for part of the time and then the wife had to leave. another person had to pump in her car. You know what – it was OUR special day (you seem to think it’s only the bride making decisions here) and OUR choice and you either respect that and make arrangements or you don’t come. If you are an a**-hat about it, then maybe you shouldn’t be there anyway.
I had a “no kids” wedding – inviting the kids of my husband’s 40+ cousins would have bumped us out of the venue and our budget. So we made it known that it was an adult party with an open bar, and no one complained. There was also about a dozen babies there, and that was JUST FINE WITH US. There’s a huge difference between a babe in arms and a bored 10 year old. One will happily be passed around and admired all night and the other, as the hostess, you probably have to have a meal and provide entertainment. Most people get that babies are different, and you can’t leave them with a babysitter the way you can a preteen. The few people who calmly asked/explained that they’d be bringing a small child to our wedding got told that was just fine. Talk to your friend – there’s a really good chance that this “policy” is nothing to do with you at all, and that your kid probably won’t be a problem.
Having just been there, done that, and made the decision to include kids – I am 100% positive that the bride did not wish to cause offense, and that she would be willing to be flexible with such an important guest and allow you to bring Frank if you feel that your child not being there is a dealbreaker.
Parent,
Agree with the advice you’ve already received here. Also adding to Lisa’s “ifs”: “IF they decide to request that no children attend.” Resorts and other nice hotels frequently either provide childcare services on site or could recommend babysitters in the area who could take care of your child in the room. As a parent of a toddler, I understand that having your children unable to attend something can make for some choices you didn’t previously have to make. In this case, though, I think you both may be getting overly up in arms about something that could have a relatively simple solution. And, even if it doesn’t and you do have to decline the invitation, this isn’t about you. Their wedding isn’t about you.
Parent, try reading the first letter, from Will, and maybe see if you can appreciate that you have family and friends that you love… and that whether or not you get to bring your baby to a wedding is probably not the biggest deal in the world, and not worth ruining a good friendship over. Jeez.
Once again I resolve that if I ever get married I’m going straight to City Hall…
I guess that, sometimes, there is a significant difference in perspective between parents and non-parents. You (and Alice) don’t get why I’m offended at the thought of my child not being invited, and I don’t see how I could not be.
And I am troubled by, “Way of the world; not Alice’s doing.” It goddamn well is Alice’s doing in this case. Did the “way of the world” plan exclude part of my family from the invite?
Bah. No point in continuing this.
@Will, I am so sorry for your loss.
Definitely follow Sars advice and find a lawyer who will help you get J’s dad out of your house and establish your joint ownership of Lab. There may be statutes in your state that might assist you based on your long relationship and cohabitation.
I suspect that J’s family will get tired of Lab – hopefully before they do him much damage – but right now they are using the dog to hurt you.
Be well and take care of yourself
The “significant difference in perspective” here appears to be that you don’t have any. The tone of your letter and of this comment suggest to me that you feel Alice is deliberately insulting your family and making your life complicated — that this is the entire point of the no-kids dictum, in fact. By extension, this assumes that your child and your dealings with your child are as important to everyone else as they are to you. Surely you cannot still think that this is so, or that it should be so, particularly not in the context of someone else’s wedding, which has concerns and logistical problems that, believe it or not, have nothing to do with you and your baby.
Here’s the good news: if you insist on associating or maintaining friendships only with those who make Frank as central to their planning as you do to yours, you will not have to deal with this problem much, because you will not be invited anywhere anymore thanks to your attitude.
Make A Will: I am so sorry for your loss. To have to deal with the crazy family on top of it all is not fair and has got to be whatever “unpleasant times a million plus a root canal” adds up to. I don’t have anything to add to Sars’ advice except please please take care of yourself and be gentle with yourself.
Also – yes, make a will even if you think you’re too young or don’t need one. You can do it for the cost of the Nolo book. At the very basic, it’s a fill-in-the-blanks deal.
Parent – oh dear. Weddings make everyone crazy, from the bride to the guests. But it seems like you’ve already written this story and the bride hasn’t even asked you anything yet. Why not sit back and see what actually happens?
Also, why NOT get a babysitter for the weekend? No friends or family willing to come hang out in your house with your awesome kid for a few days so you and the wife can get away and have adult conversations? A plane ticket is a couple hundred bucks, have your mom or wife’s mom or someone’s college-age niece come in for the weekend to chill with Frank while you go to the wedding. And for heaven’s sake, stop acting like you’re the only person whose kid isn’t invited to a wedding. It happens.
Wow. Um, wow. Frank must be one hell of a baby.
PSA, can I just send you a hug? I don’t have anything to add to the (spot on) advice above; just wishing you all the best.
Parent, I would call the resort now and ask if they have child care available, then call Dana and ask her how she is handling the situation. Then ask the couple if they have any ideas or of any exceptions are allowed. You’re not the first person to be in this situation; they are not the first couple to request no children at a wedding. It seems stressful, but there’s a solution there that won’t offend anyone. Just remember that.
Letter #2 – storm in a teacup. “Dear Alice, I am very honored you asked me to officiate at your wedding. However our son is going through the normal separation anxiety toddler phase and we would prefer not to leave him even for a short time. So since it is a no-kids wedding, I am going to have regretfully decline. We wish you all the best on your special day”. Up to her to offer an exception to the no-kids dictum if she wants.
Letter #1 – I am so terribly sorry. Is it possible that you can leverage the fact that the dad is still with you to get the dog back? In particular, if the dog belongs to any member of the family, surely it belongs to the member that lived with the dog?
But yeah, get a lawyer. Gather photos of you and the dog, vet bills you would have paid for, etc.
I hate to tell you, Parent, but the fact that something will make you feel resentful is not an emergency and does not rule out Option 1 or Option 2. “But we’ll feel resentful!” Well … you have *absolutely no justification* for feeling resentful, so if you choose to feel resentful, then that’s entirely your problem to solve.
It’s like if I said, “Well, my friends want to go out for their anniversary, but they don’t want to invite me. I can either insist on tagging along, which they won’t like, or I can stay home and feel resentful that they won’t take me, so how do I convince them that they should take me along?”
You don’t have a right to the thing you think you have a right to, so your resentment, because it is utterly unjustified, is irrelevant.
You have identified not one but two perfectly good solutions, requiring nothing more than that you be a bit less presumptuous about invitations. If you don’t want to go, you don’t have to go, but there is nothing about inviting adults and not children to an event that requires more of a “solution” than child care.
Moreover, your insistence that this is about the difference in perspectives between parents and non-parents is absurd and dismissive, and if you were going to write off Sarah’s advice as meaningless on the basis that she has no kids, why’d you ask her in the first place?
Oh, and P.S.: Look forward to the many parents who are going to tell you they would never IN A MILLION YEARS take offense at being invited to a social event to which their kids weren’t also invited. Most parents understand that they will occasionally have to either skip events or arrange child care. You are willing to do neither. That’s not a parent/non-parent thing. That’s just you.
Here’s another perspective: I’m getting married soon and I am allowing children. My mother tells me that it’s inconsiderate because I’m having a sitdown dinner, so the kids will be restless and won’t like the food and how could I not suggest babysitters and blah blah blah. My view is that it’s up to the parents to worry about thei rkids getting overtired and that my wedding us so small that it’s easier to just talk to the parents about what highchairs and all they’ll need after they accept the invite. Point being, everyone’s a critic, and someone will always find a way to see any decision as inconsiderate.
Parent: Did you make the adult interests of your friends an integral part of planning Frank’s first birthday party? I’m guessing no, because it wasn’t about them. The same applies to your kid and your friends’ adult events.
@Parent – weigh the cost of a sitter against your friendship with Alice and Bob. If you’re not willing to pay for a sitter and budge a little, then I guess your friendship with Alice and Bob isn’t strong enough for a compromise, and you shouldn’t be officiating anyway.
Parent, your letter is just seething with self-righteousness, and I spotted several more examples than the ones Sars chose. And that’s before I even got to your comment above. Wow.
Fact: there are perfectly legitimate reasons not to invite children/babies to a wedding. Furthermore, if it’s not your wedding, the decision is not yours to make and it’s out of line to ask for an exception (especially on the grounds that you’re right and a “good parent” and the couple is wrong and “selfish”). You can be resentful and try to manipulate people with threats of “a very severe, and possibly terminal, strain on [your] friendships” but grown adults go for class and decorum instead.
I have no idea why some commenters are telling you otherwise but I would suggest that you choose Option 5. You and your offended wife may well be the babies that Alice and Bob are trying to avoid.
Ok, you know I was all set to go with calm, reasonable advice here for Bad Friend, but…skip it. If someone is going to ask for advice, but include such bitchiness as
“I can already hear a chorus of people in the comments ready to chime in with how their baby could be left with a babysitter for the weekend, because they are better parents than we are; I am quite sure they are absolutely correct, and I would ask that they enjoy their smug superiority in silence, because I could not care less.)”
before anyone’s even written a response,then follow it up with even more attitude in the comments, #1) not worth my time and #2)you don’t really want help or advice. You want to bitch and moan and make someone else’s wedding about you.
Few things piss me off more than someone asking for my help, then bitching when I try to give it. I’m not wasting my time on LW, and I’m pretty sure none of her friends will be either soon enough.
Will, I am so, so sorry. I know I’m a stranger to you, but know that I care.
Sars’ advice is right on the nose–get a lawyer, one specializing in property rights and animal abuse. Drugging and confining a dog could be construed as abuse (not saying it always definitely is, but this case sure sounds like it) and you are right to care about this poor dog and absolutely correct in that no matter how badly J’s family feels, taking it out on you in such a vicious and unwarranted way is complete and utter BULLSHIT, no arguments, full stop.
And while you’re at it, get that lawyer to go over your living situation and see if you can’t get J’s ungrateful selfish monster of a father out of your house. A lot depends on who’s name is on the deed and the property laws of your state since J passed away intestate. Respect for J’s memory is one thing, but taking this cruelty from his messed up family will grant respect to NO ONE.
Thanks for the additional comment, Parent. It confirms that you don’t want to hear actual solutions about what to do with Frank. You’re just offended that Frank is not invited, because he is ‘part of the family’ and you’re operating on the theory that if Alice & Bob want to invite the family, you can’t leave anyone out.
Stop using your child as a reason to find offense. You are feeling snubbed on Frank’s behalf when Frank has no real relationship with Alice & Bob, would not particularly enjoy an adult wedding, and would not even remember having attended the wedding at all. It’s one thing to internalize your child’s actual pain and discomfort. It’s another to invent offense on behalf of a toddler when none exists.
There are lots of reasons to have a child-free wedding. A wedding is a party and if they want that party to be FOR ADULTS, then that’s fine. I had a child-free wedding for multiple reasons BUT, we also made a glad exception for a friend’s kiddo who was poppin’ fresh at the time (3.5 weeks.) The biggest thing is just to ASK. Kids younger than 18 months aren’t really the mobile terrors that, say, a 5 year old hopped up on cake can be right before he barrels into a buffet table and needs 8 stitches. Or a 12 year old who’s gotten into the champagne and vomits in the flower beds. These are both scenarios I’d seen at other people’s weddings and wanted to avoid. Still, though: just friggin’ ask.
@Parent – since you have decided that none of those who responded previously to your question have kids, and that their responses are therefore not credible, I decided to weigh in. I have been married for nearly 20 years, and we have a 14 YO; I fall neatly into both the ‘have planned a wedding’ and the ‘have a kid’ buckets, so maybe you’ll give my post a little more credence (although I suspect that you’ll likely find some other criteron I don’t meet, but whatever).
Anyhow – My husband and I decided that we would prefer not to have children at our wedding, either. NOT because we were heartless baby-haters, or because we wanted to selfishly inconvenience the parents who would be affected … but because that was just the way we thought that the event would work out most smoothly and pleasantly for all concerned. Our reception went into the very late evening hours. Ours was also a “cocktail reception” – an evening of awesome hors d’oeuvres, scrumptuous desserts, an orchestra and lots of dancing, and open bar – rather than a full meal. All in all, it would not have meshed well with tired, revved-up young ones.
My cousin’s then-3 or 4 year-old-son, J., was our ring-bearer (he is now about to graduate college!); they brought a sitter with them and J. was present through, I believe, the first hour or so of our reception. At that point, their sitter took J. back home (which could have been a hotel if they’d had to travel) to wind him down and get him to bed .. leaving my cousin and her husband free to enjoy the remainder of the evening as “just grown-ups”, without having to worry about supervising or entertaining their son.
Your original post references your friend needing to “find a suitable sitter”, and I assume from the remainder of your post that Mary Poppins herself would not pass your rigorous screening process; I’m certainly not suggesting that you leave your chid with an 11 YO kid, but even if your friends could procure a reliable, recommended sitter reference from other friends, I suspect that you wouldn’t be happy.
When our son was younger – and by that, I mean anything much prior to his teen years – my husband and I would NEVER have assumed that our son was invited to a wedding, Bar Mitzvah, etc when he was so young, and we definitely were not upset when he was excluded from attended these events. Honestly, we still don’t *assume* – if people are choosing not to include any particular group of guests (second cousins, kids, whatever), it’s likely that they are applying this ‘rule’ to all of their guests, so it’s not as though they are singling you and your child out. As Sarah said, this just goes with the “parent” territory. You have choices within the parameters of your hosts’ wishes; you just resent that those choices don’t happen to align with your own preferences.
If you continue to be as dictatorial and judgemental about how and when your special snowflake is to be included in your social engagements, I don’t think you’ll have to worry for very long about having to make these types of decisions. (If you get together with friends for dinner and a movie, do you also assume that your kiddo will take part in the evening?) My recommendation (which you probably have surmised already): Attend – minus the kiddo – graciously … or decline, graciously. “Graciously” being the key word here. At least if you care about these friendships lasting beyond your friends’ honeymoon.
@Will: I’m so sorry for your loss, and for the additional pain that your fiance’s family is putting you through. And as an animal lover, the use of “Lab” as a pawn in all of this makes me ill. I second (third? tenth?) the recommendation to engage an attorney. Wishing you peace and comfort.
Dear Parent,
Did you ever happen to steal cans of tomatoes from your local grocer?
Just wondering.
@Parent… I’m somewhere along the lines of what Lisa is saying… another option that some of my friends have used in the past is make a “pool” of parents with young kids, it looks like you’ve already got two, I’m sure there are more… then have everyone rotate care, or chip in to bring a babysitter with you who can take care of more than one kid at a time. I’d suggest someone bringing along a grandparent as they tend to be more amicable to this sort of thing, but any babysitter will do. Put all the kids in a room with the sitter, have a movie for them to watch or whatever and do a rotation of moms and dads checking in to relieve the sitter, then everyone gets some party time and there aren’t any major issues. It’s worked for my friend group a lot in the past.
I don’t know what to say to Will except that I am so, so sorry. I have a Lab and a semi-live-in guy and I can’t even imagine… I just wish I could go over there, let that awful sister and father have it and steal your dog back for you.
Meanwhile, Parent just makes me want to bear-hug my friends who’ve had children and somehow managed to stay sane throughout the process (well, as sane as they ever were, anyway).
@Will – My heart is broken for you. Sars’s advice is spot-on. Keep at the therapy, give yourself a break and get a lawyer. It maybe simply take a third party being sort of the voice of reason to get the family to give you Lab. And get Dad out of your house. You’ve all suffered a great loss and people do and say things in grief that they wouldn’t do in ordinary circumstances. Just know that we all care, here at the Nation, and let us know how it turns out when you are feeling up to it, ok?
@Parent – I’m not sure why you’re dismissing the advice before it even comes and then turning it into a parent/non-parent thing. Also, I’m with Rachel who suggested asking one of the Grandmas or Grandparent sets to come for the weekend and stay with Frank at home. It’s a rare grandparent who wouldn’t LOVE to spend time with grandbabies, and help out you and mom at the same time. They might even be willing to share the cost of a ticket with you. This avoids the total stranger babysitter problem at a resort, and the “asking for an exception” problem that you worry could damage your relationship with these people. Frank gets to stay with people who love him, in his home, and you and Carol get a weekend of adult conversation and adult time without him. Last time I checked, a lot of parents enjoy having time without their kids, no matter how much they love their kids.
“Oh, and P.S.: Look forward to the many parents who are going to tell you they would never IN A MILLION YEARS take offense at being invited to a social event to which their kids weren’t also invited. Most parents understand that they will occasionally have to either skip events or arrange child care. You are willing to do neither. That’s not a parent/non-parent thing. That’s just you.”
*waves*
I love my boys from the tips of their runny noses to the bottoms of their clumsy feet, but I would never dream of being “offended” that someone did not want the pleasure of paying for my boys’ company at their own wedding. Don’t try to turn this into a parent vs. non-parent thing; it ain’t. Get in a huff if you want to, but leave me out of it.
Just want to chime in here as a parent of small children (ages 4 and not quite 2 at this writing) to say that we’re not all like Parent here. My husband and I would never in a million years (thanks, Linda!) think that my children not being invited somewhere that we are invited is any kind of insult or slight to us or our kids. Nor do we think that our children need to go everywhere we go. (Thank God for babysitters, is all I can say, because I ADORE my rugrats and I also adore date nights and girls’ nights and weekly pizza and beer with the choir I sing in.) The world, even my best friends’ and family’s world, doesn’t revolve around my kids.
And I wasn’t going to get into the substance of Parent’s options, but what they hey. Your Option 2, everyone going to the resort and one of you missing the wedding, doesn’t sound so awful to me. You guys get a weekend away as a family, and a few hours taken up with the wedding isn’t so much sacrifice. You could even trade off during the reception, if you wanted to. Also, regarding option 3, you say impractical because no babysitter would want to come with- I think you vastly underestimate the power of money. Babysitters will come with you wherever you want, so long as they are appropriately compensated. Won’t be cheap, as you point out, but if you can afford it, it’s not the invalid option you imply.
The best option is probably finding a babysitter through the resort who will watch Frank in your room during the wedding. I can’t imagine why you’d want a one-year-old at a wedding anyway. You’d have to do so much running after him, making sure he’s entertained safely and in such a way that it doesn’t distract everyone, that I can’t imagine you’d enjoy yourselves. Please understand- this is no judgment on Frank. It’s a judgment on one-year-olds (of whom I have now raised 2).
I would like to send a whole-hearted “thank you” out to Parent. See, I’m having my first baby in about 6 weeks, and while I’ve received a great deal of advice on what to do as a parent, it’s always helpful to have a gold-plated example of what *not* to do as a parent. So that’s what it looks like when you assume that your kid should be as important to the rest of the world as it is to you. Ew. Must remember not to do that.
With that, since Parent is obviously not looking for actual solutions but rather a full-throated endorsement of his Special Snowflake status, I will simply offer my heartfelt condolences to Will (and my sincere wish that I had any advice to offer in addition to Sars’ excellent suggestions) and eagerly await the next Vine.
i forgot to mention – Will – just want to add to the chorus of being so, so sorry for your lost. I would be so devastated… husband and I have a dog that was his before we were together – I would have been so upset if something had happened to him before our wedding and his mom took Clyde – not a far off idea because she loves Clyde as much as we do… ugh – heart-wrenching
and totally get a lawyer… at least to get advice and rest your mind that you have done everything possible. and if there is nothing, maybe when life calms down a bit you can speak reasonably to his, also grieving, mother…
@Jen(N) – you almost made me choke on brownie. I internet love you.
@Patricia: Seriously, your attitude (which I love so much) is similar to the attitude of most of my friends with kids, which is why I hate having this turned into parents versus non-parents. Most parents I’m friends with aren’t like Parent AT ALL. Parents who are like this are like single people who look down their noses at parents and call them “breeders” and don’t understand that sometimes parents have to cancel if their kids get sick.
Most of this is not about parents/non-parents. It’s about people who can and can’t process that relationships involve compromise, PERIOD. If you can’t compromise and you have to have your own way, you don’t get give and take and you don’t, in reality, get close to people.
Imagine how much closer Parent would be to these people if he did the wedding and brought a sitter, as opposed to not doing the wedding and sitting around being offended. Being angry and resentful is isolating, because all that happens is that eventually, people stop caring. If it’s because you’re not being reasonable, people don’t mourn your absence, just your unreasonableness.
To Will – I’m also very sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine.
I’m be the lone voice of lawlessness here today. If a lawyer can’t help and if the family doesn’t reconsider and return Lab to you, I would go ahead and consider dog-napping. Because, legality be damned here, he is YOUR dog and morally what they are doing is disgusting. The tricky part is getting Dad out of your house and cutting all ties with that rancid family before you get Lab back. Because should he vanish and they have a key to your place – well, the jig will quickly be up.
Don’t get me wrong – try all normal legal channels first. But don’t be afraid to consider other alternatives should those options fail. If nothing else, it might make you feel better to be making a plan while you work those other channels. Just knowing that no matter what happens, you’ll find a way to get him back should help you be more patient and calm.
And again – I’m so, so sorry. Hang in there.
The whole thing with Parent is likely to be moot anyway, since if this is the attitude he broadcasts in real life, word will quickly get back to Bob and Alice and they’ll wisely opt for someone else to officiate. I can almost hear him slipping a bunch of snotful little comments into the ceremony were he brought on board: “Dearly beloved, we are gathered here WITHOUT our CHILDREN to witness the joining of Bob and Alice, who CLEARLY don’t CARE about the importance of FAMILY staying TOGETHER during special occasions like this. If there be anyone present who does NOT think they are jerks for not letting us bring kids to this holy and solemn rite, speak now or forever hold your peace.”
jen(n) FTW!
Am I the only person who was disappointed that Parent didn’t sign his letter “Ted”? Yes? Right, then, carry on.
To Will, I am so terribly sorry for your loss. I don’t have any advice to add, but I hope Lab is back home where he belongs very, very soon.
Brava to jen(n)! I needed a good laugh!
To Will – you have my condolences. I don’t know you, but my heart is with you. Sars’s advice to speak to a lawyer is excellent; you may have a much better case than you think, given that you took the dog to the vet and were engaged to J. I hope you can get custody of Lab and find some peace. Please take some comfort in the fact that the ‘nation is pulling for you.
Dear Will, I am so sorry you are going through this. I wish I could give you a big hug. I think the lawyer is a good solution mostly because people often change their minds quickly when a lawyer gets involved. A phone call or letter from your legal representative might be all it takes for mom to give back the dog. He can also advise you about evicting the dad.
It sounds like they are letting you visit the dog, but would they let you take him for a few days? Ask the lawyer about whether you have a case to “keep” him if that happens. It sounds to me like you have a good case for why the dog is yours too, but find out what he or she says.
A final scenario is to try to work out a joint custody arrangement with the mom. Maybe you could watch Lab while she’s at work or on the weekends or whatever. I know it’s not perfect, but it gets you more time with Lab. Things might be too strained between you two for that to work, but it’s worth trying.
I hope somehow you get Lab back in your life. My heart is aching for you.
P.S. I meant to add, you case should be strong since you had physical custody of the dog, as well, after J’s death. J’s mom and sister essentially stole Lab from your house. A really lawyer should be able to help you get him back. Good luck and best wishes.
@Jen B.: You and your offended wife may well be the babies that Alice and Bob are trying to avoid.
I don’t know if I can say that’s the best response so far–because there are a lot of damn fine responses here (kudos also @JS). But it’s definitely up there.
Will, I can’t imagine what you’re going through. Yes, get a lawyer, and I hope for both your and Lab’s sake that you’re able to get him back.
Wow. Parent: I sincerely doubt that as Alice was planning her wedding, she sat down with a world map of domination to plot out how to best offend you personally. You haven’t even had a discussion with her about how the “no children” policy will be applied. Is it going to cover both the ceremony and reception? Has she checked with the resort to cover child care options for those who absolutely can’t leave children at home due to age/breastfeeding/special needs?
Sign me “Glad my friends (and apparently a large part of the Nation) have kept some perspective”
Will: Sooo sorry. I can’t even imagine everything that you’re going through, and as a dog-freak on this cat-heavy site whose parents have labs, that must have just been the dagger in the salt in the wound. Therapy, therapy, therapy, and I concur on getting the leech-ass father out ASAP, but doing it with legal advice. These people seem to be stuck in the anger phase, and they’re pointing it all at you, so keeping everything by-the-book will protect you from more damage from them.
It’s really too bad people who write invitations now have to make it clear that no children are invited, thereby apparently insulting those without a clue. Back when people were sane, an invitation was considered to have been offered only to those who were named specifically on said invitation. Then rude people decided the hosts must have meant to invite the whole kit and kaboodle and now hosts have to state no children. If I want to have a big family everybody and their cat wedding, good for me. If I want to have an adults only wedding, good for me. I’m giving the party. I invite the guests. Period.
And yes, most resorts have baby sitters prescreened and available for guests to hire.
“I love my boys from the tips of their runny noses to the bottoms of their clumsy feet, but I would never dream of being “offended” that someone did not want the pleasure of paying for my boys’ company at their own wedding. Don’t try to turn this into a parent vs. non-parent thing; it ain’t. Get in a huff if you want to, but leave me out of it.”
Well-said, Julie, so much so that, as the parent of a toddler boy, I’d just like to cosign it. ;)
The original Parent’s attitude is one that results in an entitled child. Do your kid a favor now and disabuse him of the notion that he alone is the center of the universe unto which all else should revolve. He’s the center of YOUR universe, sure – but others have their own priorities that have nothing to do with you. That’s baseball.
Will’s letter makes me want to rush home and hug my husband and my dog. Sars’ advice is spot-on; see a lawyer, get rid of the dad and get your doggie back.
Parent, I reared a child myself; he’s a man now and turned out well. It is not inconsiderate of a marrying couple to decide they don’t want children at their wedding. It’s not a slight against you. If you don’t want to officiate unless you can bring your precious, precious darling, then talk it over with the couple (it’s not just the bride doing the planning) and see what can be arranged.
You’re doing Frank no favors by centering your lives around him.
Will, I am so sorry for your loss. Since you were the one taking lab to vet appointments, etc., it might be worth asking the vet to write a letter on your behalf or be a reference for any legal action. Any receipts you have showing you paid for services will surely help your cause. Finally, as other posters suggested, if Lab was taken from your home without your permission you should file a police complaint. If you believe Lab is being mistreated file a complaint with your local animal control office. It might be worth the letter from a lawyer stating you’re going to take these actions to see if that resolves the situation.
Take case of yourself, too.
Frank’s Dad: you have a fine future as a helicopter parent.
Will, this is so incredibly heartbreaking. I don’t know the specific laws related to animal ownership by state. But from watching Animal Cops, I do know that legal responsibility for an animal is determined by the person currently sharing property with the dog. By that I mean: if Owner leaves town for a few days and something happens to Dog as a result of neglect, Roommate would be responsible because he/she lives in the house and was there when the thing happened. Does that make sense?
So I don’t know how that extends to ownership in this case. But because your fiance owned the dog, and because Lab lived with both of you, and J had a relationship with you from the beginning of his ownership of the dog, I think you can make a good case that Lab is your dog. If you have any proof of taking Lab to a vet or paying any of those bills, even out of a joint account, that would help. I certainly don’t think his MOTHER of all people has legal rights to the dog. As others have said, if anything, the father makes a little more sense. “For your own good,” my foot. They are being selfish and thoughtless and cruel, and I’m sorry you have to deal with that on top of the horrible loss of your J.
That said, I’m hopeful that once you will have success convincing them to relinquish Lab. I hope that they will get through the violent, reactive stage of their grief, and can see more clearly that they aren’t the best people to care for the dog and that they don’t have the right to it regardless.
I’m not sure why people are suggesting that Parent ask for an exception to the “no kids” rule for his special snowflake? No kids means no kids – if it were baby Jesus himself, I wouldn’t want him around if I was holding a “no kids” event. Likewise, I don’t go to Chuck E. Cheese expecting to have a “quiet dinner” to myself. Thanks to all the sane parents here who have responded, acknowledging that their little precious(es) are not necessarily so precious to everyone else all the time, during all occasions.
I also am seriously amused that Parent is offended on Frank’s behalf. Frank is a year old, and I can’t imagine he has much of an opinion about a boring (to him) wedding of people he doesn’t really know.
Parent clearly doesn’t want advice, but mine would be to decline graciously if you don’t feel comfortable leaving Frank (which maybe/maybe not is a legitimate concern). I don’t think you’ll have to worry much about irreparable damage to the friendship, as your kind of entitled attitude is difficult to hide and not conducive to maintaining friendships.
@Parent: Relax. People aren’t out to screw you over because you’re a parent and they’re not.
I am the parent of a 9 month old and was involved in two weddings two weeks apart this fall. Both weddings were out of state (ie across the country) and we don’t have any family close by (ie the same state as us) for free childcare. One was a “no-kids” and one was “kids are fine”. Neither option really caused me too much worry. I see it as the couple’s own choice. They are having a celebration and have the right to invite whoever they want.
For the wedding with no kids, my husband stayed at home with the baby because we had no childcare and couldn’t really afford the airfare just to have him hang out. For the second, we brought the baby with us. Both worked out terrifically. I was involved in both ceremonies and my husband knew ahead of time that it would be on him to take care of the baby. That meant not attending one wedding and leaving pretty early from the other.
If you have family that doesn’t get to see you that often, why not give them the option of either staying at home with Frank or coming up as a mini family vacay up to the resort and spending time with him there? That would give you and your wife some baby-free time with friends and give family some parent-free time with Frank. My inlaws live thousands of miles from us but they’re going to be coming out for our daughter’s birthday and extending their stay to give us a mini-vacay for a few days.
My guess is that Parent and his wife have never left Frank longer than the length of a movie. As a parent I can (vaguely) recall how difficult it was to leave the kids when they were babies/toddlers. The idea of a whole weekend away would have been unfathomable. I’m sure the kid is attached to you two- that’s a good sign- but time away won’t kill him. It’s a good idea to get him used to the idea of being left with someone other than his parents, or you’ll never have a chance.