The Vine: December 4, 2007
Hi Sars,
For one of my jobs, I need to compile a list of verbal pet peeves — the “if you will”s, “Joe and myself”s, and other grammar- and style-related mistakes that the unknowing often make.As I started making my list, I realized that it is very personal — the things that drive me nuts aren’t the same as my co-worker’s chief irritants.So in an effort to cover my bases, I hoped I might ask your awesome Tomato Nation readers to help out with a couple of the things people say in
conversations or in presentations that drive them craziest.I’m particularly interested in verbal tics and misused phrases and constructions.
By the way, what’s your verdict on “there’s,” as in, “There’s a lot of cars on the road today”?(I mean, it’s wrong, but it’s rampant. Can anything be done?)
Thanks,
Free To Be You And Myself
Dear Free,
I don’t have a huge issue with the “there’s a lot of” construction, in colloquial speech anyway; you can treat “lot” as a collective noun, I guess, if you want to find a rules-based reason why “there’s a lot of” isn’t the worst usage crime in the world, but I treat it more like the Spanish hay.My last Spanish class was quite some time ago, but if I recall correctly (and I may not), hay handily covers both the singular and the plural of “there is” or “there exists.”I think, colloquially, we’ve come to treat “there’s” the same way in English — “there’s a lot of dust in here,” “there’s 200 people coming” — not necessarily because we don’t know it’s incorrect, but because 1) we’re using it more as a state indicator, i.e. “there exists a state of 200-people-ness”; and 2) “there’s” is easier to understand in spoken conversation than “there’re.”
Short answer: I wouldn’t use it in written correspondence, except in fiction/dialogue, but in spoken language it doesn’t bother me.
Now, to the meat of your question.”Frankly”/”honestly”/”to tell the truth” is one that’s really bugging me of late — and I’m as guilty as anyone, but I’m working on it.It’s a tic, and what comes after it usually isn’t so much honesty and frankness as it is an unpopular opinion, or a statement to the effect that someone else/the reader is wrong.What’s meant, often, is not “frankly,” but rather “I disagree,” or “You’re mistaken about X,” which is fine, but just say that then.(Note: One of my mother’s pet interjections is “Oh, honestly,” and I don’t take issue with that one.)
Also, “nevermind” (it’s two words; “nevermind” is cutesy), and the rendering of the adverb “anymore” as two words.The 11C doesn’t commit to saying that a phrasing like “I don’t eat meat any more” is incorrect, only that “anymore” is preferred, but it bugs me.”I don’t have any more meat”; “I don’t eat meat anymore.”Two different uses, two different renderings.If the purpose of usage rules is clarity, well, I rest my case.
Readers?
Tags: Ask The Readers grammar
I’m so glad to see many of my “favorites” on this list — and I’m in publishing, so I have a lot. It makes me feel better to know I’m not the only one fighting the good fight.
I have only two to add: In the grocery store, “can goods” and “box meals” (rather than “canned goods” and “boxed meals”); and referring to the writer O. Henry as O’Henry. That one is very local, since he’s from my town and there’s a street named after him. What’s worse, I even see some signs referring to O’Henry. And when the city gets it wrong, there’s no going back.
(1) “use to” instead of “used to”
(2) “done” instead of “done with” – as in, “i’m done school now”
LynnZM “Anachronym” in place of “Acronym”… actually, I kind of like that. What can we rename arachnophobia then?
The one that makes me most crazy (and my best friend uses ALL the TIME) is “Although, to be fair,” or “To be fair though…” She then goes on to say something completely opposite to the previously agreed upon topic. Every conversation we have is destined to have at least one use of this odious construction.
“Don’t you think it’s sexist to only let little girls wear pink? Blue is my favorite color!” “Oh absolutely! To be fair though, people will look at you funny if you put a girl in blue.” Wait, so does she agree with me or not?
People who say “standing on line” instead of “standing in a line” or even “standing on a line [painted on the floor].” That one always makes me cringe and picture someone standing around with a laptop and an internet connection.
Also, the mispronunciation of library as “libary” gets me every time.
1. EXpresso. There is no ‘x’ in the word ‘Espresso’. Stop it.
2. “Where you going? Let me go WITH”. Ugh! I think this is a Minnesota thing, but ending sentences with “WITH”.
This is regional, I think but “these ones” instead of just “these.” And I do it all the time in speech, so I am a bad person. “I can’t find document I need in this pile of paper.” “Did you check these ones over here?”
I was editing an author who consistently switched “that” and “which.” It was like he’d learned grammar backwards; whenever one was called for, he’d use the other. And my current boss almost always edits out the word “that,” but it is occasionally called for.
@Shannon – I figured it was just a spelling issue, but there are some “Pixburghers” (ahhh!) that pronounce it more like ‘yunz” than like “yinz”, oddly.
@Cindy – “I don’t feel well” is perfectly correct; “well” in this context is an adjective, the opposite of “ill”.
@Cindy in CO; you’re not correct. “Well” in this instance isn’t an adverb modifying “feel,” it’s the opposite of “ill.” So “I don’t feel well” is righter than right can be.
2 AM in the morning.
Oh frabjous day!!! I have the EXACT SAME ASSIGNMENT at work, and every time I’ve tried to make a list my brain tries to implode. It just hurts so much!!
Y’all (contraction of “you” and “all” ergo valid in colloquial language) have already hit most of my kryptonite. A few I haven’t seen listed (or missed):
“that” vs. “which” (I recommend reading that entry in Garner – too funny)
“run” vs. “ran” – I might throw myself out the nearest window if I hear “I have ran that report” one more time.
Overuse of transitions – I’d never seen this until my current job, but the people who provide my raw material will throw transitional words and phrases between EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE. (Sorry, this all makes me screamy.) It’s deranged. And usually the transition doesn’t even make any sense. It’s as though they keep a list and just grab one at random to start a new sentence.
Re: “gantlet” vs. “gauntlet”
I’d never seen “gantlet” either, but Garner endorses it. And Garner is God, so apparently I’ve been committing my own atrocity for quite some time. Don’t worry, I’ve rapped my own knuckles with a ruler.
Wow. Thanks for all the feedback. Somehow I knew the Vine readers would have some strong feelings about this. In answer to the person who asked about “if you will”–it can be perfectly appropriate, but I’ve been hearing it lately as a place holder. “Jane and I are going to lead the workshop, then conduct the evaluations, if you will.”
Sars, I’m glad to hear that “there’s” isn’t bothering you. Maybe that will help me let it go.
@Liz:
The used to/use to thing used to (ha!) bug me, too. But then I taught ESL and the textbook we used (Azar’s grammar series) taught that they are interchangeable. It might have been for pronunciation’s sake, because the book stated for the students to pick the one that was easiest to say; but it did say that either was acceptable.
Basic mispronunciations–nuc-le-ar, not nuc-u-lar. Antartic instead of Antarctic. Liberry instead of library.
I work in banking, and I have a coworker who is incredibly smart, but for some reason pronounces the Swedigh/Norwegian currency “krona” as “korona.” Every time I hear it, I want to buy her a beer.
I had this roommate in college who used to “feel like” everything. She “felt like” she forgot to do her reading. She “felt like” she didn’t like that person. While I haven’t seen the roommate in three years it seems that I’m hearing this more and more.
I also once dated a guy who insisted that the phrase was “Down packed” and not “down pat.” I had him google it and when “down packed” got one hit and “down pat” got hundreds he insisted that everyone was wrong.
People also need to stop saying something is very unique or very historical.
I second, third, (fourth?) the “Could care less.” Harlan Ellison summed it up so well I’ll never forget it: “If you COULD care LESS then you DO care MORE. But you DON’T. It’s COULDN’T.”
And lately a lot of cashiers have asked me to enter my “PIN number.” “You just asked me for my Personal Identification Number Number, you know that right?” Similarly, you take money out of the ATM. No need to add “machine” on the end, it’s already in there.
And “you’re” vs “your” and “it’s” vs “its”…only slightly annoying when they’re mixed up in someone’s e-mail (they’re confusing, I get that) but I see it wrong in advertisements all the time, and that makes my brain hurt.
Most of mine have already been mentioned but I have two more to add, which might be a product of living in Hickville, USA:
1. “Seen” instead of “saw”. Where’s Lisa? Oh, I seen her yesterday. I seen the new iPhone at Target. UGH!
2. “Them” instead of “those”. I picked up some of them chips you like. I like them chips too.
Like I said, not so much grammatical errors as crimes against humanity, and I fight an uphill battle every day trying to train those two usages out of my students’ vocabulary.
I do NOT understand the NYC (and surrounding area) colloquialism “on line.” When someone asks me if I’m “on line,” I think they’re asking if I’m using the Internet, not if I, too, am waiting for my turn to order coffee, cash a check, etc.
Ooh–I want to play, too!
I second the “every day” vs. “everyday” pet peeve. I also second the “I” vs. “me” pet peeve. E.g., “He as tall as me.” NO! It should be, “He is as tall as I” (or, “He is as tall as I am”).
Speaking of e.g., I don’t like people who confuse “i.e.” and “e.g.” “I.e.” = “that is.” “E.g.” = “for example.” Sometimes they can be used interchangeably, but usually when you think about what they actually mean, it’s clear which one should be used.
I also wish people would use the subjunctive more often. “What if God WERE one of us?” I realize that “was” has become more accepted colloquially, but hearing people use “was” instead of “were” still really bugs me.
My personal pet peeve is commentate. Commentators comment, they don’t commentate. See also: orientate.
I have a friend who will say “no offense” right before she says something that’s horribly rude.
I thought the end of days had come when I started seeing people mix up the words “then†and “than.†“Summer did better then Marissa on the test.†“Ryan went to the store and than he called Seth on the phone.†No idea why the OC names cropped up in my examples, sorry about that.
RKK – thanks for bringing up the use of “impact†in the geotechnical field. They’ll twist that word into almost every part of speech in order to avoid the highly taboo “contaminate.†“Impacted soil was found at the site†instead of “Contaminated soil…†And ditto on the passive voice. Active voice is all about specific ownership of an action. Passive voice is more cloak and dagger; it avoids assigning blame in high-stakes situations.
Smash – I was glad to find that my very new coworkers were kidding whey they called Chipotle “Chipoodle’s.†Intentional mispronunciation AND unnecessary possessive? Comedy goldmine!
I don’t know if it’s even incorrect, but “have got” makes me cringe. For some reason, “I’ve got a car” hurts my brain while “I have a car” seems okay. As a contraction, “I’ve got” is longer than “I have” so why bother contracting?
Also, “impact” as a verb, random apostrophe usage and “0.99 cents” (you mean I can buy 101 of them for a dollar?)
Most of mine have already been said many times over.
This may be a military thing (since I think I’ve only heard it in meetings with military personnel), but “deconflict” and variations. We had a regular “deconfliction” meeting to make sure that NGOs and Army Civil Affairs troops were operating according to the desires of the local authorities and to make sure that some schools didn’t have two groups trying to renovate them while others had none.
But in “y’all’s” defense, many other languages have a plural “you” that is most easily translated into English as “y’all” (rather than having to say “you, plural”). In French it’s “vous,” and in Arabic it’s “intoom.”
Take “basically” out of any sentence and the sentence does not change. Worse, the person using “basically” in a sentence is often explaining something which is not at all “basic.”
Many of my champion peeves have been mentioned already (Less/fewer, intensive purposes, the e.g./i.e. thing, misused apostrophes, homophone confusion, and a host of others).
A usage thing that I haven’t seen mentioned, but which annoys the bejeebus out of me, is “no offense, but” as a preface to something the speaker knows will offend the listener. As if the phrase magically frees the speaker of any responsibility to not be a jerk.
The regional dialect speakers around here have a habit of dropping the “to be” out of the present progressive, so “I going to the store” rather than “I’m going to the store”. I always think it sounds kind of quaint or cute, and then feel bad for being so condescending. So, in the natural progression of these things, I get peeved at them for starting off the “Aww. Ack! :::mental handslap:::” sequence.
The verbal tic I’ve heard lately is overusing the word “clearly.” Even my beloved Cokie Roberts used it on her Morning Edition segment yesterday. I use it too; that’s why I have been noticing it. Clearly.
My old standby is the use of “comprise” to mean “compose.” I’m not even sure it’s technically wrong (I think it’s accepted usage), but I learned it was wrong, and I’m sticking to it.
Smash, my mother-in-law pronounces it “Chi-PO-til”. She also says “Wal-Marts” and “Targets,” and pronounces “quesadilla” just like it’s spelled.
My major pet peeve is ‘arguably’. My knee-jerk reaction to this term is to immediately discount whatever the writer says after that (I’ve never heard anyone say this, I’ve only seen it written). It makes me feel like the writer cannot articulate why he or she loves (or hates) whatever they’re writing about, so by writing something such as “Arguably, this is the best CD ever.”, they don’t have to come up a reason why. I know it’s juvenile on my part but it really bugs me.
Another peeve is when I’m in a meeting and everyone starts talking in acronyms. I work in broadcasting and in cross-departmental meetings, the initials start flying and half the time, I have no idea what they’re talking about because each department can have their special set of acronyms. I just want to tell them “If you not going to speak so everyone can understand what you’re saying, why are you wasting our time with this meeting?”
The use of modifiers to the word unique has been brought up elsewhere, I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds that irksome (I actually had a Vine about it).
“I seen.”
As in, “I seen a deer on my way to the store.”
Is this just a local thing? It must be, because seriously, it’s grating; if anyone else heard it, I’m sure it would’ve made the list by now. One of my parents’ neighbors says this all the time, and I find myself avoiding talking to her, because my teeth grind involuntarily every time I hear the it.
Also (since I just heard this particular one on the phone), “supposably.” It bothers me way more than other, similarly wrong non-words. Maybe because I hear it so often.
Here are two of mine — the first is common, but I haven’t seen it listed here yet; the second is more of a personal peeve.
1. “Free reign”/”Reigns of power.” STOP THAT. You want “free rein” and “reins of power.” The metaphor operating here is that of a harnessed horse. I’ve seen several good writers botch this one.
2. “Verbiage.” There’s nothing inherently wrong with this word, but I hear it far too often when “language,” “words,” or “copy” (which admittedly borders on jargon) would work better. But if you must speak it, I’d prefer that you pronounce the “i”: verb-ee-age. The alternate pronunciation “verb-age” is in my dictionary, but if you say it, all I can think is that you don’t know how to spell the word.
@Georgia – The NYC-area regionalism “on line” was unambiguous before this whole Internet thing started up. Crazy kids!
@Laura
Oh, you are my hero for bringing up the .99 cents thing. I completely forgot that this one makes me want to throw myself off a very tall building. At my very first job in high school, we sold iced tea for 69 cents. We had a big sign on the counter that said, “BIG TEA, .69 CENTS.” (Only with the cent sign instead of the word.) I asked my boss if I could remove the decimal, and I used a razor to scrape that sucker off. It took a while, but I was determined. He thought I was nuts. I still want to go to a store advertising something that way, give them a penny, and tell them to keep the change.
@Cara
People in Louisiana say “I feel like getting a headache” when they mean they feel a headache coming. I was genuinely confused the first time I heard that expression and asked, “Why do you want a headache?” It doesn’t bother me, but it’s strange.
@ferretrick- Oh, the damn text messaging. I don’t even want that crap in actual text messages. I had a landlord who would send me text messages that said “I need 2 get in2 ur place 2day.” If you’re going to inconvenience me and not give me 24 hours’ notice, spell the damn words out! You’re an adult who owns multiple properties.
It really bothers me when I get work emails with the “Yours” and “its” and “theres” all wrong, especially since our email has spellcheck. Even if it’s expecting too much to think that people (who get paid more than I do) know the proper usages of these words by themselves, they have a tool that tells them. And please, please, do not use “thx.” Are you so busy and important that you can’t type the three extra letters to spell out the word?
Almost all of my pet peeves have been listed above, but there is one that drives me nuts that I haven’t seen. There is a long running diaper/ commercial that talks about potty training. It ends with the phrase “always be consistent.” What? You’re either consistent or you’re not. You can’t sometimes be consistent.
It also bugs me when people say “on accident” instead of “by accident.” My husband and MIL say this all of the time. I love him (her, meh), but I’m going to strangle him one of these days (figuratively, of course).
Everyone’s already listed my biggest pet peeves, but because it can’t be said enough: “orient,” not “orientate.” Please, citizens of the world, stop it. The hatred is compounded by knowing that people who use it (like those who say “irregardless”) think that adding extra syllables makes them sound smart.
I have enormous hatred for “filler” in English — things like “on a daily basis” (just “daily” is fine, thanks), “we may or may not…” (those are the only two options, actually), and on and on. A lot of it, I think, is due to wretched, fluff-filled corporate writing. It’s alarming how quickly corporate-isms can take over a person’s vocabulary. I have college friends whose prose has now been ruined, and they don’t realize that their personal emails are full of waffle-y, gasbag sentences that say nothing. Particularly bad is the proliferation of sports metaphors(“step up to the plate,” “keep your eye on the ball,” “do a slam dunk,” etc.) in writing that is supposed to be serious. It’s so amateurish.
Finally, another vote for sentences that begin with “that said.” RAGE. It’s got to be one of the ugliest constructions in English.
Because I can’t stop today…
“Conversate” is not a word! People CONVERSE, they carry on CONVERSATIONS, but under no sun or moon has anyone ever “conversated.”
Just…kill me.
attica & Go Amie – I’m sure you guys are correct, and thank God! I had an elementary school teacher pound her distinction between good and well into my head at an early age, and I’ve never been able to let it go. Now I can. And Jaybird – HA!
MISPLACED APOSTROPHES!!!!!!!
Nothing, NOTHING drives me more bat shit insane than misplaced apostrophes, especially on business signs. ‘ “Expresso’s”, .99. ‘ AHHHHH!
Text message spelling where it doesn’t belong. I don’t have time to decipher what you’re writing to me in an email because you a)cannot spell the word “owned” without messing it up or b) have the mistake impression that this is the 21st century equivalent of Shavian wit. It’s funny on I Can Haz Cheezeburger posts and Cute Overload and NO WHERE ELSE.
I highly recommend Lynne Truss’ Eats, Shoots and Leaves and Bill Bryson’s The Mother Tongue for righteous British Outrage (the former) and hugely entertaining potted history of the English language (the latter.) I do sympathize with the difficulty of figuring out the rules of grammar, because English is not a Latinate language, but many 18th century grammarians wanted it to be, so as not to be inelegant or second rate. So they basically forced the language into the constraints of the Romance Languages to seem more first rate and refined. As Bryson points out, this is much like going out on a basketball court in hockey skates to play basketball. Sooner or later, someone’s gonna sprain an ankle.
Y’all (I’m sorry, but there IS a need for this word–or one filling the same function) have pretty much covered it, but:
@Melanie: Quotation marks for emphasis? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE. The band director at my high school was NOTORIOUS for this. “Please put the “pencil” back in the “folder” when you are finished.” Really? Are you sure about that? How mysterious!
@Erin: “I know, right?” means “I know; right?” In other words, it means “I know! Don’t you agree?” and not “Do I know?”
I am totally going to start using “He got the red ass,” though. That is awesome.
***
The other general thing I wanted to weigh in on was the issue of corporate speak. Just stop, okay? For real? Stop. You don’t have to rewrite “I really believe in the books we publish” as “I have pride of product.” Really, you don’t. I promise. It doesn’t make you sound more professional, it makes you sound like an empty suit. Just say no to businessification.
“supposably” instead of “supposedly” …KILLS me
and “all`s I know is…” When I hear that I wanna stab someone with a pitchfork.
Starting a sentence with “Basically…” If whatever you’re conveying in the sentence is basic, I’m going to get that from the sentence itself; no need to clue me in. (Too often, though, what follows is a long, rambling monologue.)
@Cindi in CO: “I don’t feel well” is correct. It’s the same as saying “I feel unwell.” I was always taught that “I don’t feel good” is incorrect for the exact same reasons you’re arguing that “well” is wrong.
Orientate. Orientation is a noun, and orientate is a made-up verb! You’re getting oriented in your new surroundings, not orientated.
I can’t stand when people say “you know what I mean?” after almost every sentence they utter. I work with a guy who seems to say it because he believes that what he is saying is so complex, we really may not be able to comprehend. It has taken a lot of willpower in meetings sometimes to not blurt out “YES! Yes, we all know what you mean!!!!” and then maybe punch him a little bit.
@Leigh
Oh, I know what it means (right?). But to my ear, that’s what it sounds like. Admittedly, I never thought of putting a semicolon in “I know; right?” Regardless, you can’t hear the difference between a semicolon and a comma. It’s just my personal pet peeve. I ought to give up the fight. Everyone I know says it, and I’ve even caught myself doing it just because I’m surrounded by it.
Inappropriate use of “there’s” is actually a big pet peeve of mine. Also, the less/fewer distinction. I’m starting to suspect people don’t even know the word “fewer” exists. They just use “less” for everything.
Another thing that really irks me (to the extent that I think I must have made up my own imaginary grammar rules and that’s why no one else knows of them) is the use of “different than” rather than “different from”. I guess it has become acceptable use, but it just sounds wrong to me.
“Empathetic” still makes me angry. I was pretty sure it was still considered entirely wrong, but Dictionary.com, at least, has it listed right alongside “empathic”. When did that happen?
For some reason, I find “y’all” preferable to “yous”, which I do hear on occasion here in NJ.
Having spent some time scoring high school essays from various states, I could go on for days about written spelling/punctuation issues, but I won’t. I will say, however, you would not imagine how many ways students find to distort “nowadays”, which they probably shouldn’t even be using in a formal essay in the first place.
I’m not sure if this totally counts, but… please. Please don’t say ya’ll when you mean y’all. I’m from Boston, so I know I don’t have any right to be correcting my friends to the South, but it just drives me nuts. You don’t mean “you will,” you mean “you all.” If you want to say “you all will” then feel free to let loose with some abomination like “y’all’ll.” I swear I won’t say anything. My brain might leak out of my ears, but as long as it’s y’all and not ya’ll, I’m fine.
Besides, y’all’ll is pretty fun to say. Try it!
The incorrect use of the phrase “as well” drives me nuts. It should be used as a connecting phrase: “I went to the store and picked up cat food and litter, as well as a jar of peanut butter.” What I see all the time and can’t stand is when it gets stuck on the end of a sentence: “I went to the store and bought some cat food and cat litter, and some peanut butter as well.” Wrong, wrong, wrong!
Like everyone, I hate literally used to mean figuratively. I was forced to tone down my rant when I realized the original meaning of “really” is “literally.” And I am really in the soup, if we hold people to literal meanings of their emphasis words. Literally is a fresher offense, but it is on its way to acceptable usage like really. Like, really.
The burning rage of a supernova for the word “humor” to mean amuse. “She humors me” means she puts up with me. Try “She cracks me up.”
I have a friend who precedes everything she says with “technically,” even when she is not stressing a technicality — like, “Technically, I say tecnically too much.” (Okay, that’s a bad example. It drives me nuts anyway.)
Also — I know far too many people who say “typically” when they are not discussing… uh, typical-ness. For instance, “Typically, I am wearing shoes.” (Crap! Another bad example! Y’all are going to have to trust me on these, I guess.)
@Betsey: I do know that the language has changed a great deal in many ways (relatively) recently (as in the last 3-400 years), and there are many aspects of it that used to be correct that no longer are. For instance, we no longer use the descending or medial “s” at the start or in the middle of words, although its use was commonplace around the same time that you say it was still correct to use “they” as a singular.
Here are some other mistakes or overused phrases that I notice frequently:
Whenever I hear someone say “That’s something you either love or hate” about anything, I always roll my eyes. There are not nearly enough things about which this is really true to justify the vast overuse of the phrase in America.
Also, whenever I hear someone talk about a movie or an event that he or she thinks everyone should have heard of with the phrase “unless you’ve been under a rock for the past months,” that always strikes me as presumptuous and annoying.
I find that many people are unable to use the word cliché and its variations correctly. I often hear or read “That’s so cliché” instead of the correct “That’s so clichéd.”
Oh, thank you for giving me a forum! I was just complaining about both of these cases last night:
1) “Step foot”. It’s SET foot, people. Not “step”. Really, even if it seems to make more sense, “step” is not corrent.
2) “Couture”. I hear thaat phrase used in place of fancy/expensive/really nice dresses/watches/whatever. Note to Queer Eye guys and Flavor of Love girls: if you bought it off the rack, by definition it isn’t couture.
Ooh, the “.99 cent” thing makes my blood boil! Related (and I hate it even more): “$1 dollar.”