The Vine: December 4, 2007
Hi Sars,
For one of my jobs, I need to compile a list of verbal pet peeves — the “if you will”s, “Joe and myself”s, and other grammar- and style-related mistakes that the unknowing often make.As I started making my list, I realized that it is very personal — the things that drive me nuts aren’t the same as my co-worker’s chief irritants.So in an effort to cover my bases, I hoped I might ask your awesome Tomato Nation readers to help out with a couple of the things people say in
conversations or in presentations that drive them craziest.I’m particularly interested in verbal tics and misused phrases and constructions.
By the way, what’s your verdict on “there’s,” as in, “There’s a lot of cars on the road today”?(I mean, it’s wrong, but it’s rampant. Can anything be done?)
Thanks,
Free To Be You And Myself
Dear Free,
I don’t have a huge issue with the “there’s a lot of” construction, in colloquial speech anyway; you can treat “lot” as a collective noun, I guess, if you want to find a rules-based reason why “there’s a lot of” isn’t the worst usage crime in the world, but I treat it more like the Spanish hay.My last Spanish class was quite some time ago, but if I recall correctly (and I may not), hay handily covers both the singular and the plural of “there is” or “there exists.”I think, colloquially, we’ve come to treat “there’s” the same way in English — “there’s a lot of dust in here,” “there’s 200 people coming” — not necessarily because we don’t know it’s incorrect, but because 1) we’re using it more as a state indicator, i.e. “there exists a state of 200-people-ness”; and 2) “there’s” is easier to understand in spoken conversation than “there’re.”
Short answer: I wouldn’t use it in written correspondence, except in fiction/dialogue, but in spoken language it doesn’t bother me.
Now, to the meat of your question.”Frankly”/”honestly”/”to tell the truth” is one that’s really bugging me of late — and I’m as guilty as anyone, but I’m working on it.It’s a tic, and what comes after it usually isn’t so much honesty and frankness as it is an unpopular opinion, or a statement to the effect that someone else/the reader is wrong.What’s meant, often, is not “frankly,” but rather “I disagree,” or “You’re mistaken about X,” which is fine, but just say that then.(Note: One of my mother’s pet interjections is “Oh, honestly,” and I don’t take issue with that one.)
Also, “nevermind” (it’s two words; “nevermind” is cutesy), and the rendering of the adverb “anymore” as two words.The 11C doesn’t commit to saying that a phrasing like “I don’t eat meat any more” is incorrect, only that “anymore” is preferred, but it bugs me.”I don’t have any more meat”; “I don’t eat meat anymore.”Two different uses, two different renderings.If the purpose of usage rules is clarity, well, I rest my case.
Readers?
Tags: Ask The Readers grammar
…That should read as “*I* don’t correct” etc., not as a command to you not to correct others. You’re at your leisure. Heh.
I learned the correct spelling of definitely after my friend Nate once corrected me: “As much as I’d love to be included in defiNATEly… it’s definitely.” I just remember Nate is not included now. And now I know that it’s also “infinitely” instead of “infinately.”
I knew someone who said “whumsif” instead of “what if.”
I remember the difference between “Betsy and I” and “Betsy and me” by removing Betsy. Did I go to the store? Then Betsy and I went to the store. Did he give me a present? Then he gave a present to Betsy and me.
I still struggle with apparently/apparantly. Apparently, apparantly is the wrong spelling because Firefox is giving me the angry red underline of doom.
Can v. May. Absolutely my number one pet peeve. Yes, you can, but no, you may not. My mother drilled that into my head lo those many years ago.
Have GOT instead of Have. I am scarred from a sorority sister shrieking repeatedly one semester, “I have GOT to call Stan Storer!”
CPA’s instead of CPAs for plural. Same with LLC’s and LLCs. Learn the difference between possessive and plural, people.
Split infinitives.
Beginning a sentence with a gerund phrase, but not using a comma after it.
Spelling out a number after you have typed the number. Example: $1,000.00 (one-thousand dollars and zero cents). Paralegals of the world, pick one or the other, but quit using both. You’re making my head hurt.
Ok, so I was in the grocery store at the bakery counter dazed by all the yummy types of bread. I was asked by the person giving out free samples, “would you like to try a piece of one of our artesean breads?” It’s bad enough that “artisan” is now being applied to this… but artesean???
Also, I have seen several posts here that have something that always irks me, and for which I am mocked… ‘damn’ instead of ‘damned’. (Take that, Damn(ed) Hell Ass Kings!!)
If used as a verb in present tense or imperative, damn is fine. If used as an adjective, we NEED THE PAST PARTICIPLE… otherwise it becomes ….
I get organically grow produce at the farmers’ market.
or
I like homemake apple pie the best….
The damned word needs an -ED!
Words/phrases/punctuation errors that piss me off (many of these inspired by the corporate setting):
1. Irregardless (self-explanatory)
2. “It is what it is.” (This means NOTHING. STFU.)
3. “You wanna talk to that slide?” (How about talking TO the audience ABOUT that slide, douchebag?)
4. Snap a [chalk]line (overused)
5. Thumbsuck (which is what you’re doing when you use this word)
6. Reflexive pronouns used in a non-reflexive way (“This presentation was put together by John and myself.”)
7. Adding an “s” to words that don’t need it (“I’d rather be anywheres else but here.”)
8. Using “less” when you really mean “fewer”
9. Leaving out the last comma in a list of three or more things
10. In regard[s] to/With respect to (To what? The fact that you’ve watched a few too many Colin Powell addresses?)
11. Signalize (This one courtesy of my computer science professor)
That’s all I can think of at the moment. Coming atcha from Hartford, CT.
@Abi: Thank you for teaching me the term “redundant morphology.” The only thing better than hating a grammar/spelling/usage tic is being able to slap a label on it!
And @Kida: What does “snap a chalk line” mean outside of its original context?
Oh my god. Seen on a message board:
“Belkar’s not picky, as long as you are not a crazy paladin chick with an evil white horse (That’s horse will pay!)”
This made my eyes bleed.
“I don’t have the bandwidth” when not referring to your computer’s processing capacity.
Oo! Grammar fiend con! Fun, fun, fun! I’m the proofreader in my group at work, and I’ve gone through 3 red markers in the last 6 months. My staff all dread getting their presentations back.
Most of my favourites are in prior posts, but my particular hates are:
– Orientate. I feel like I should be holding a compass and wandering the woods.
– Utilize. The word is USE (the word “employ” may also be used if “use” is getting overused). This wannabe-$10 word is not allowed in any piece of work I edit.
– Criteria used as a singular, and criterion as a plural. No.
– Medium/media/medias. I work in an advertising agency, so I see this a lot. It makes my teeth peel.
– Cactuses. It’s cacti, idiot. Do you order octopuses in restaurants?
– Apparently random use of commas, semi-colons, colons, dashes and apostrophes. I’m strongly tempted to ask them to provide their decks unpunctuated and I’ll do it for them; they’re not getting it right, anyway.
– Use of *’s* to pluralize a noun.
– Abuse of reflexives. I studied French for years, and if you learn it in French, you’ll never screw it up in English.
– “On a going-forward basis”. This is an evil example of marketing-speak. I hate jargon, either business- or sports-related. Particularly sports-related applied to business. Feh.
– The word “critical” in relation to advertising (or to any other non-life-threatening occupations, for that matter). I take my work seriously, but unless someone is choking or coding on the conference table, there is nothing critical about advertising. The words “important” or “crucial” are adequate.
I could go on, but I think I’ll just haul out my “Schoolhouse Rocks” DVDs and plan a series of grammar lunches.
I have plenty of verbal pet peeves, but with nearly 300 entries…I’m sure it’s all been said. However, what REALLY struck me was the irony in Thomasina saying that she hates people who use “they” and then…does it herself in the very same paragraph. *snort* Irony = my fav.
Coming in late but :
Anymore instead of nowadays. “We eat at Chez Snoot a lot anymore”. No. ‘anymore’ is used in negative constructions (don’t … anymore), not positive constructions, which take ‘nowadays’.
@Laura: “Snap a [chalk]line” is abused in the corporate world to mean that a baseline is established at a particular point in a process. This is done so many times during the life cycle of a project that I’m hearing this term on an almost weekly basis. [*jibblies*]
I’m not even sure if this is technically wrong, but the whole “more + adjective” instead of “adjective + -er or -iest” construction drives me nuts. (“I’m most happy when…” instead of “I’m happiest when…”)
Perhaps I’m just a fan of simplicity, but it seems needlessly wordy…and wrong.
Also, repetitive punctuation!!!! Why???? Can’t find the words to fully express your anger or disbelief??? Stop writing until you can!!!!!
@Duana: Ditto on “weary” in place of “wary” or “leery.” Makes me *literally* homicidal!!!!
When people correctly use the word “data” as a plural (as in “the data ARE not conclusive”), I get annoyed at their seeming pretentiousness.
Yes, I know, I AM the problem.
With all the talk of editing papers and grant applications, I was reminded of another pet peeve of mine. This one is so frequent that I once did a study and determined that I correct this an average of 5 times a week. You would think that people would learn.
“A likely means B”
No, A is likely to mean B. Dammit!
I’m a bit late to the party, but here’s a link of common errors (which is not necessarily the same as pet peeves): http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors
Oh, God, this thread should be required reading for the English-speaking world.
One I haven’t seen is the oddity of “each one better than the next” instead of “each one better than the last.” Well, er, why would I go on to the next one if the current one is the best I’m gonna get? I think sometimes people forget the beginning of the sentence by the time they get to the end.
Also hate then/than, your/you’re, its/it’s, there/their/they’re, and the like. It’s basic grammar. Why aren’t people learning it? It’s frightening.
Literally! The pastor of a church I once frequented misused “literally” so often that I started making hash marks on my bulletin.
And the whole “Ask Bob or myself” thing KILLS ME. Dude, I can’t ask yourself. Only you can ask yourself, and you should be asking yourself where you were when everyone else was learning how to speak.
Seriously, speech has gotten so lazy that when I hear people use correct grammar (I’m talking about you, “whom” and “I’m well, thanks”), I’m tempted to kiss them. With tongue. But in the interest of decorum, I usually stick to high-fives or verbal thanks.
I recommend the book “Between You and I: a little book of (bad) english”. It addresses many of the over-corrections people make when they’re trying to be formal.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ytgjok
1) Using “lay” when “lie” is correct. Would you say, “I’m going to lie my coat on the bed”? Then don’t say, “I’m going to lay down”!
2) “Between you and I.” I’m so happy to know someone has now used this as an illustrative book title.
3) Spurious apostrophes. Dear God.
One of my coworkers just used this in an email: “She will be in the office at around 11:30”. Um…Isn’t that a contradiction? Or am I stupid? Wouldn’t the correct phrasing be 1) “She will be in around 11:30” or 2) “She will be in at approximately 11:30”?
“Irregardless”. One of my high school teachers LOVED this word, and I am surprised I didn’t throw out my back from cringing everytime she used it.
Diane… I agree with you about the name pronunciation issues. If it’s because of different accents then fine, but to just say it wrong in the first place is rude. My best friend is “Yasmeen” emphasis on the “meen”. People call her “Jasmine” or “YasMIN”. She once wrote a fax to someone, signed her name and they wrote back “Dear Jasmine”. How do you do that?
One of my coworkers, who is quite intelligent misprounounces so many words. It’s very sad because I worry if she talks to someone who doesn’t know her they may think she is unintelligent or uneducated, but I really don’t think she knows she’s doing it. She’s guilty of “supposably” and many other things. She just says phrases WRONG. I wonder how that happens.
I too am driven crazy by the “I”/”Me” usage. All the reality stars seem to be MOST guilty of it and it drives me crazy.
“”How are you?”
“I’m good.”
No, you’re well. I’m well. We’re all well.”
“Good” and “well” are both correct here, as they are both adjectives describing “I”.
My big pet peeves are incorrect past participles, like “Have you ever swam in the ocean?” or “I should have went to the store.”
Wow! That’ll “learn” me to not keep up on on Sars’s sight! (How’s THAT for a bunch of sins against grammar/logic/punctuation/spelling?) I missed out on bitching about English MISusage.
I have few grievances to add to the list, just many to commiserate with.
My #1 by FAR pet peeve is “anyways.” Would anybody say anywheres, or anyhows? No, because “any” denotes any ONE thing, dammit. The fact that it is constantly said on television and in the movies only grates on my nerves more.
I quadrillionth the (non)word “irregardless.” Bugs me to no end. Also the use of an apostrophe to signify a plural. Cannot stand. I don’t understand how “definately” (gawd, it was hard for me to even TYPE that) can possibly look right to anyone.
Poor, poor, poor grammar usage. My #1 in this department is “I seen.” I mean, REALLY, does that sound okay to anyone when it comes out of their (not they’re or there) mouth? It can’t, can it?
I love the English language, and I guess it just makes me sad that so many can’t be bothered to even make an effort to use it correctly. I mean I am all about ending a sentence in a prepostion, if only to not sound like Diane from Cheer’s. But the basics should be adhered to, for the love of beer and skittles, as Sars would say.
… and seven years later, ALL HAIL WEIRD Al YANKOVIC.