The Vine: February 21, 2007
Hi, Sars.
My initial question was a lot simpler, but then I started thinking more about it. Okay, I’ll try not to make this too long. My husband and I have been married for a little over a year. My husband’s whole philosophy is that you accept the person for who they are and don’t try to change them. I agree with that essentially. I guess my question here is when you marry someone, can you expect any kind of changes from them?
Okay, some details. In the course of our relationship, I have brought up four major issues that upset me. Our budget, his drinking, his computer time, and the way he eats. This last one caused a major fight over the weekend. The man puts mayonnaise or ranch salad dressing (and not just a little) on everything he eats. He insists that it’s fine because he’s thin, and he never puts on weight. He’s not concerned about his arteries at all, though. I am. Probably a little too much at times. I’m still learning when to back off sometimes. He also says that I lecture him rather than talk to him. I’m also condescending and hateful. I’ve put myself on notice now about a possible lecturing or condescending tone, but I don’t really see how I’ve been hateful. He says I’m on his case all the time. I “nag and bitch” constantly. I’m supposed to be happy with him just as he is.
What I am is caught between a rock and a hard place. We’ve got this mostly sorted out now, but he used to spend more time with his computer than with me. I got really upset about this, and he didn’t see a problem with it. His whole argument was that it was just the way he is, and I shouldn’t have a problem with that. After all, he’s accepted me for the way I am, and he never complains to me about anything I do. Our argument on Saturday (about food, mind you) ended with him yelling at me that he’s tired of changing for me. He’s not ever changing again.
What’s your take on all of this? Am I unreasonable here to ever expect change of any kind? Is it just universally understood that I should never expect anything else from him? I’ve read countless Vines where you’ve said that you just can’t change people. I totally agree with you. But what do you do when you feel like your husband would rather have a computer than you? Do you just accept it and try to work through the misery, or do you say something to him? If I do say something, do you have any tips as to a way to do it that doesn’t involve him dismissing me as ridiculous, blowing up at me, or both?
Also, I’m trying very hard to leave him alone about what he eats. My original question was how do I back off? Because I do worry about how much fat (in mayonnaise alone) he eats every day. I’m not his mother, but I still feel concerned when I watch him eat what he does. I also feel the need to say something. Any tips that might make it easier for me to not bug him about it?
Signed,
I’ve heard that banging your head against your desk burns 150 calories/hour…
Dear Bang,
No, you can’t change people. You can ask people to change for you; you can tell them that you’d like to see changes, and let them sit with that information and decide if they want to make what’s important to you important to them. But you can’t expect it. People have to want to make changes themselves in order for those changes to stick.
The important corollary to the “you can’t change people” principle, when it comes to romantic relationships, is that you can’t become your partner’s parent. You can’t watch what he eats and comment on it; you can’t make him feel like he’s in a grading/grounding situation whenever he turns on the computer or opens the fridge. Should he put a pint of ranch on everything he eats? No, probably not. Is this a preference that existed before you came along, that you probably should have decided whether you could live with before you got married? Yeah, pretty much. Can you expect him to change this, especially now that he’s announced that he’s done changing for you, in any way? I don’t think so, not in the short term.
So, what to do? Well, I think you have to look at the problem honestly. I don’t think that, in a vacuum, you would actually give that much of a shit about his caloric intake if you weren’t in conflict with him over much larger issues like finances and relationship time. Yeah, it’s not healthy, and you feel like he should value you more in terms of minding his long-term health, but that in turn, I think, stems from a feeling that he doesn’t value you, period — would rather be on the computer than with you, doesn’t agree with your budgeting style. You need to take the small stuff off the table and deal with the big stuff, because the small stuff is symbolizing the big stuff here. You’re trying to control him on little things because you feel like you have no agency in the relationship on big things.
You need to talk to him frankly about this stuff, and you should think about doing it in counseling, if only because it sounds to me like the two of you don’t speak the same language when it comes to relationship issues — like, literally don’t understand what the other one is trying to say. But you do need to try. Sit him down and tell him that you feel lost in this marriage. Don’t use the word “change” or anything like it; express to him what’s really going on with the whole changing-for-you issue, which is that you don’t feel heard, you don’t feel important, and it’s not about the changes themselves — it’s about the fact that, if it were really important and the chips were down, you feel like he’d pick mayo and online RPGs over you. And if that’s not true, the two of you have some work to do to get back on the same page. But if it is true, lady, you gots to go.
This is not about condiments. What it is about is scary, I understand, but you need to get at it, now.
Dear Sars,
I’m writing because I’m in an unexpectedly complicated situation concerning one of my friends, and I think I need a dose of your compassionate common sense, or possibly a slap around the head.
I have a friend, we’ll call him Dan. We met online about three years ago, when we were both posting to the fan site of a particular author. Answering each other’s posts led to chatting online for about a year, and thence to phone calls back and forth. Over the course of time and a lot of shared laughter a good friendship grew up despite the distance between us.
Dan was a bit shy about meeting up as he has slight self-esteem problems; he struggles to believe that people would actually like him. Eventually, after a fair bit of persuasion, we did meet at a group event in July. This was fine, we all got on well, his anxieties were relieved, and afterwards his messages were noticeably warmer so I felt that we’d become really good mates.
Last month I had a weekend away planned, visiting old friends near where Dan lives, so I suggested I come up a few hours early. We met and it turned into an extremely pleasant afternoon. We’d both chilled out about meeting face-to-face and we had a great time; we talked about just about everything and really connected. This is where the problem starts.
At the end of the afternoon Dan walked me back to my car. He was a being notably affectionate — patting me on the shoulder and so forth — and as we were saying our goodbyes we had a hug; a hug which if I’m honest was 95% of the way to a cuddle.
For the next little while Dan was very affectionate in his chat, and wanting us to meet up again; then a little cooler after two or three days. We’ve met once since at a group event, at which he was friendly but a little distant, until the end when he unexpectedly grabbed me into a clumsy embrace.
Right now we’re back to talking on MSN and so forth, and probably will be for the next couple months. It’s fine and I’m reasonably happy for things to be on an even keel between us. The thing is that they aren’t quite, as there’s a feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop; also, to be honest I’m missing him a fair bit.
So to my question: What happens now? Both of us are straight guys, I can’t see how we could be together, but there’s something more than standard feelings between us and I’m not sure what to do about it. I really don’t want to wreck a great friendship, and I think that’ll happen if I try and talk to Dan, but I’m not sure “do nothing” is an option in the long term. So, “What would Sars do?” Apart from not be so daft in the first place!
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Yours,
Didn’t see this coming!
Dear Me Neither,
Way to bury the lede, my friend. I could have used a little more time with the “we’re both straight dudes” sheet of the case file, probably.
…Although actually, it doesn’t make a difference, not really. It’s a communication issue, and yeah, it’s a little more fraught than that, but…when isn’t it when Liking That Way gets involved.
So, okay. What do you want? Because what I see here is that Dan likes you, probably That Way, but is not conditioned to deal well with that, with himself, and also is probably a little bit at sea by the fact that you aren’t conditioned for it either, so you’re not really responsive — I mean, yeah, you’re both self-identified “straight” guys, but life has a wonderful way of ignoring the labels we make up to keep things orderly. Without that name for yourselves, what are you left with? A guy you really like as a friend, a guy you miss, who you think might have feelings for you. A bit confusing at this point in your life, perhaps, but there are worse things to have going on.
Do you have those feelings for him, is the question, and I’m not sure you’ve answered it for yourself. I think your next move is to call him up — have some contact that’s a bit more personal than IM. See what the vibe is. Don’t bring up the other shoe or anything, not initially; just shoot the breeze like you’ve always done and see where the conversation takes you. If he’s still a bit removed, well, you can’t do much about that; you could force the issue, if you think you should, but it’s up to you. If he’s warm, explicitly happy to hear from you…I don’t know. You’ll have to see.
But…why not see? It’s awkward, but…it’s always awkward, and besides, he’s your friend and you miss him. Phone him up, see what happens. And keep us posted.
Hi Sars,
Is it, not abusive exactly, but…rude to
physically move a cat whose location you find
inconvenient?
My boyfriend thinks that it is. His argument is that I
wouldn’t want someone to just come along and lift me
if I were contentedly grooming myself on top of the
computer keyboard — so he’ll spend five minutes
cajoling his cat to move out of the way of the TV.
I’ve noticed this mindset in some of your essays about
your cats where you recount pleading with them to
shift themselves. While I’ve lived with and loved cats
aplenty (hated a few too; I once had a roommate whose
Himalayan we called “The Spraymeister”), I wouldn’t
call myself a “cat person” — so maybe I just don’t get
it.
My attitude is that A) the cat’s not going to move
until you make her or she damn well feels like it, and
the latter probably won’t happen for a while; and B)
it’s kind of neurotic to worry about offending a
creature whose brain is the size of a Silly Putty egg
and won’t remember your “disrespect” an hour from now.
I’m not talking about throwing the cat against the
wall or anything — just lifting it and depositing it
on the floor or the couch or wherever.
I’m Trying to Watch Heroes, Kitty, and I Can’t See
Through You
Dear You Can If The Cat’s Name Is Claude,
Oh, I plead with them to move, for sure. And then they don’t, because: cats, and then I move them, because: please.
I suppose you could see it as rude, but it’s also rather rude when they hurl on my floor and don’t clean it up, step on my face, knock my jewelry from the bureau onto the floor, and lick their butts in front of company, so as far as I’m concerned, we’re even, and anyway, you’re right — they don’t remember. Hobey loves to curl up for a nap on the bare mattress when I’m changing the sheets, but when I remove him to the floor, I don’t think he even remembers what the bed is five minutes later. He has a whole apartment to nap in and he’s in my way, and I feed him so he can just live with it, bottom line.
If your boyfriend has that kind of time, good for him, but if you don’t, don’t worry about it.
Tags: boys (and girls) cats friendships
Amen to that.
You just made me laugh out loud, because you’re right. I love animals, and I love my pets, but I’ll pick my cat off the couch, shift the dog onto the floor when I want to sit, and stand up and ease a flicking tail away from the screen. I don’t actually even ask first, but normally I explain why as I do it.
People come first, and animals don’t actually care. The cat just climbs straight back onto my lap, and the dog finds another empty chair.