The Vine: February 6, 2009
Hello Sars!
I love online advice columns, hence my reading of The Vine. I’m looking for more to read, but would you believe it’s difficult? There’s boring old Dear Abby and other, rather stuffy, syndicated columnists — and on the other side of the coin, when I Googled “agony aunt,” the first link was for a spanking site (both amateur and professional!), which…you know, consenting adults, whatever, but it wasn’t what I was looking for.
Recommendations?
Yours,
Enough with the Dan Savage already
Dear Enough,
I don’t read advice columns anymore. I used to read one, Dear Prudence, but I tired of it last year; it’s sort of a busman’s holiday. At this point, the only time I really read other columns is if a reader tips me that a Vine letter showed up somewhere else too.
But I think the readers will have a wide range of suggestions. Readers?
Tags: Ask The Readers popcult
You might dig Advice Vixens… http://tinyurl.com/bqkdkq Readers give readers advice. It’s addictive.
Or Carolyn Hax… http://tinyurl.com/azs2e She’s a lot like Sars, in that she’s nearly as direct but she’s different in that she’s divorced and has twins.
But there’s no one like Sars. Go read her archives, you’ll pee your pants laughing.
Carolyn Hax has an online chat with the Washington Post on Fridays. She usually takes a reasonable, common sense approach to issues. Here’s a link to the latest.
http://tinyurl.com/aa8ttu
I like Judith Martin (Miss Manners): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/03/25/LI2005032501837.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
Besides The Vine, my only other advice addiction is to Carolyn Hax at the Washington Post. Rational and generally sticks to the question asked. Also, live discussion on Fridays.
I love What’s Your Problem?, but I don’t know if that’s quite the kind of advice column Enough is looking for. Plus it doesn’t come out that often.
Check out the “Lifestyle Columns” section of creators.com – there are a whole bunch there. Margo Howard, who used to write the Dear Prudence column and is the daughter of Ann Landers, has a twice-weekly column that’s not bad. Annie’s Mailbox can be hokey but it’s usually okay too. Amy Alkon, despite her terrible Glamour Shots photo and self-bestowed title of “Goddess”, gives blunt and decent advice. John Gray’s column is hilariously terrible most of the time.
I also never miss Randy Cohen’s “The Ethicist” column in the NY Times.
When I’m super bored, I check out Amy Dickinson’s column in the Chicago Tribune. And when I’m REALLY REALLY bored, I’ll read Cary Tennis at Salon, but I can’t stand the flowery, overdone way he writes so I’ll generally just read the letters and make up my own advice in my head. (And half of his letters are “I feel malaise and ennui. Please help me to not.” which is boring.)
On the racier side, Jamie Bufalino in Time Out New York does an awesome job – he’s less snarky than Dan Savage but his job involves the same kind of utterly disturbing letters, which he tolerates with slightly more grace than Savage does.
I didn’t realize until just now how into advice columns I am. This is probably not normal.
@Margaret: Aw, thanks. But sometimes the letter does the work for me.
For any new folks in the crowd: chain mail guy.
I love http://ask.metafilter.com – it’s sort of a wiki-style advice column, and while I usually skim through looking for relationship drama, it covers every imaginable topic.
Carolyn Hax is divorced? I thought she was divorced from Nick but remarried to the father of her kids!?!? Help – this is completely messing with my sense of advice column reality.
@Jess – well, if it’s not normal, then I’m abnormal too. I read quite a few, almost every day. And, like you, I’m more interested in the questions on “Since You Asked” than the answers.
Oh, there’s another one – Ask Bossy: http://blogs.news.com.au/bossy/ but I don’t read it regularly because it seems skewed to a much younger and chaotic demographic.
I’ve always like Cary Tennis of “Since You Asked” on Salon.com. His column has a link right in the left sidebar on their homepage. Enjoy!
http://manslations.com
He’s funny (is/was a stand up comic) and gives advice from the pov of a guy.
“I’ve seen some buttnuts in five years of writing The Vine, but this is a new low.”
Thus my enduring Sars-love. I’ve never heard any other columnist call someone a buttnut! BWAAHAAAHAAAA!!!!! (That was one helluva letter though!)
I’m also an advice-column junkie and have recently discovered Miss Conduct. She has a weekly column in the Boston Globe Magazine, plus a blog:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/missconduct/
I have to disagree with Jess on this one: Amy Alkon, despite her terrible Glamour Shots photo and self-bestowed title of “Goddess”, gives blunt and decent advice.
I’ve found that Alkon’s advice lacks depth, and she throws in pseudoscience a lot to justify her sexism.
I haven’t found anyone to rival Sars; if you haven’t read her archives they are completely worth it – and they go back years.
Cary Tennis = fail.
Maybe not quite what you are looking for, but there is a snark-tastic lj devoted to advice columns- community.livejournal.com/cf_abby_tribute- which is based on CF Abby, a childfree woman who writes things more along the lines of “Don’t give in to your sister if you said kids are not going to be a part of your wedding,” and “Don’t talk to your mother anymore if she treats you in a way you would not tolerate from your friends”. The lj is people posting letters from many of the people listed above- although I don’t think Sars has ever been commented on- and everyone else gives their advice, and debates. Its not just for the childfree.
Oh, heee! Sars, I had forgotten about chain mail guy, the “REN-FAIRE DOUCHEBAG”! Heeeeeee. Did you ever hear back from that girl? I hope she followed your advice, but I’m afraid she’s still there, apologizing for living while polishing his new suit of armor.
Gee, I wonder what ever happened to chain mail? And no on Cary Tennis, the letters are sometimes ok, but his responses put me to sleep.
Jennifer: You are correct. Carolyn is divorced from Nick-whose-last-name-I-can’t-spell, but they apparently remain on excellent terms; he still illustrates her column and they co-parent their dog Zuzu. Carolyn is remarried to her second husband, with whom she has three sons (including one set of identical twins).
Yeah, I spend way too much time reading Carolyn. Sue me. (Now, if only Sars would have a live advice chat…)
Jennifer – you’re right about CHax. No need to have your reality messed with!
(Obviously I’m a devotee of Carolyn Hax, particularly the Friday chat)
It doesn’t appear very often or with much regularity, but Ask Natalie, on the blog part of http://www.nataliedee.com is, while not strictly Sars-like, very entertaining. Plus, in between times, there’s hilariously f’ed-up comics. Natalie Dee is pretty straightforward and practical, and very drily funny and occasionally filthy, in an awesome way.
I always read Carolyn Hax in my hometown newspaper, but the descriptions of her personal life I’m reading about here are somewhat alarming. But yeah, she gives really straightforward advice–and, like Sars, she’s not afraid to tell the advice seeker that they’re the problem.
Agreed that Amy Alkon is bitchy and sexist.
By the way, has anybody read Dear Margo’s most recent column? She’s having a hissy fit that Amy Dickinson identified herself as “the new Ann Landers.” Apparently, in addition to being a sacred cow (understandable point of view from Margo, Ann’s daughter) the name is also trademarked.
http://tinyurl.com/bhh64t
It makes me giggle that advice columnists are feuding.
I have to second the Miss Manners suggestion. If you’re really into advice columns, her books are awesome, and Miss Manners Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior is at least 500 pages. It’s hysterical and educational, all at the same time!
I’m so happy to see others sharing my addiction. I’m not alooone!!! Amy Alkon is funny sometimes, but uses far too many evolutionary psychology caveman “facts.” CH rocks, and Carry Tennis is usually sleep-inducing, but very occasionally has surprisingly interesting advice bits hidden in the wandering self-absorbed essays. And Randy Cohen of the NYT is also worth reading.
Oh, sweet mercy, Cary Tennis — the first time I clicked on one of those, I had to then click through a bunch of past columns, because I was thinking, “Surely they can’t all be like this.” But… they are. I couldn’t possibly be bored enough to read one all the way through.
I keep on trying “Dear Prudence,” and I keep on being disappointed: the questions suck me in, but the responses are never worth reading. Everybody has an advice columnist, and mostly they’re awful. It’s obviously not as easy as you make it look, Sars!
Cary Tennis = fail.
I didn’t think I could [heart] the Vine more than I do. But now I do. Because truer words have never been spoken.
(he is also SO CREEPY. seriously read any of his columns about love or sex or whatever – or better yet don’t because he tries to convince you that all men are like him and then you will never want to have sex again).
She only updates once in an agonizingly great while ever since she became a mom, but Heather Havrilesky gives pretty awesome (and f-bomb-laced) advice on her blog. It’s the closest thing to the Vine I’ve ever seen, except she’s a lot more long-winded than Sars. Even with the infrequent updating, the archives ought to be a great read (especially if you knew and loved her old Filler column on Suck.com).
For parenting, beauty products, shoes and other random stuff, I like Amalah at AlphaMom. Obviously not everyone’s area of interest, but if it is, she’s funny and has tested a lot of products, saving you the trouble! http://bit.ly/15iQ6
You might try this one: http://culturemagazine.ca/advice/. She just moved to weekly format.
I second miss conduct of boston.com. she is fabulous!
Cary Tennis does indeed add up to fail. However, Salon still has archives of their previous advice column, Mr. Blue, written by Garrison Kiellor, which was quite good.
Hax is great, especially the chats.
I like Dan Savage, but it’s NSFW, and it’s a sex advice column, so be warned. (http://tinyurl.com/savage-love)
Judith Martin cracks me up to the point where I buy her books.
Dear Prudence bores me for the most part, although the last two columns have had such amazing lead off letters that I can’t help going back each week to see if someone else suspects a friend of murdering her husband or shares a cubicle with a guy who masturbates at work (and HR won’t take action). Her advice is run of the mill, but her letters are astonishing.
Thanks for the reminder about chainmail guy, Sars. One of the best.
I do feel compelled to remind those who are not fully versed in the TN Archives about Jack and the bourgeoisie revolution. I still read it when I’m having a bad day.
Cary Tennis is pathetic, but Dear Margo is the best.
Oh, Jack and his tomato-stealing ways. That never fails to crack me up.
Cary Tennis is always good for an eye-roll…however, I do think he serves some purpose for those letter-writers who really don’t need a problem solved as much as they need someone to offer them sympathy and tell them that their feelings are justified. I sometimes see Amy Dickinson and Annie’s Mailbox, among others, just offering quick, surface responses to people who are clearly in a lot of pain and are writing to an advice columnist because they don’t know who else to turn to. I understand why – hey, I’ve read _Miss Lonelyhearts_ – but it’s still painful to see.
Sars’s Jack answer should be put in the Smithsonian. I also tend to remember the chick who was living with her parents to save money until her wedding – which they were paying for in full – and was unhappy that her parents (i.e. the wedding funders) wanted to have a cocktail called the “Blushing Bride,” because she considered it to be “patriarchal” and “sexist.” Yeah. Uh-huh.
Anyone notice that Ask Amy and Carolyn Hax got the same letter and published their (very different) answers around the same time a few months ago? Teenage girl whose mother had responded to a teenage outburst by saying she didn’t feel like the girl’s “friend” any more? The differing answers to those letters summed up for me why I prefer Carolyn to Amy.
Oh, Erin W, an advice maven throwdown would be beyond awesome! All teary eyed, flailing in the mud–“Thank you notes are NON-NEGOTIABLE!” “The salad fork goes on THE OUTSIDE!!!!”
Jack Tomato and Chain mail guy could beat each other down for the opening match!
marion – any idea on the date for the Hax/Dickison letter? I don’t follow Amy so would love to compare her answer to Hax’s (and I know I will prefer Hax’s answer)
I’m so happy that so many of us follow Sars and Carolyn Hax. I guess I’ll ‘see’ most of you at next Friday’s chat.
And yes, Sars needs to consider doing a chat…
I am trying, and failing, to figure out what’s alarming about married/divorced/married someone else/had some kids/maintains a healthy working relationship with ex-husband. Good lord, we should all fail so successfully.
I like Dr. Andrea Bonier, who does weekly advice for the Express paper in DC (part of the Washington Post). Good common sense from a psychologist: http://tinyurl.com/afs22r .
The forum over at http://www.etiquettehell.com is like a community of advice givers.
Dan Savage’s Savage Love. The archives kept me sane working over Christmas this year. A bit rude, sometimes, but totally hilarious.
Dear Prudence got a bit preachy for me, so I gave it up (unless I am really, really bored … )
Can’t wait to try some of the other suggestions!
Mix Tape Therapy is a good advice site for readers whose tastes skew toward the Vine. After Ms. Mix and Bitch gives advice, she puts together a playlist of songs relating to the writer’s problem.
http://askisadora.com has a sex advice column that’s funny without being as occasionally as asstastic as Dan Savage.
Chain mail guy NEVER gets old! Did that girl ever give you an update? Because if any Vine column needs one, it’s that.
I am an outlier in finding Dan Savage nowhere near as funny, and PARTICULARLY nowhere near as enlightened, as he thinks he is. He has a very particular attitude about sex and about what’s important in life, and there are people he likes and people he hates, and unless you share his values about relationships and people — which I ultimately realized I don’t, at all — he barely thinks you deserve to live, which I ultimately grew tired of hearing. I’m always shocked that he gets by with such self-important smugness and somehow passes himself off as cool because he says “fuck” a lot.
Cary Tennis is trying to work out his own shit through ostensibly giving advice, and I find it icky and uncomfortable.
Dear Prudence used to be okay, but she often answers questions by ignoring the actual question and lecturing about something she wasn’t asked. Most offensively, I recall her answering a question about how to handle tactless people who make inappropriate comments about one’s decision to remain childless with a lecture about how stupid it is to remain childless and how much you will regret it, and if you think you truly don’t want children, it’s only because you don’t have children and don’t understand what you’re missing. (In other words: she made it worse.) As long as your life is exactly like hers, she’s an okay source of advice, but if it’s not, all you’re going to get is a lecture on how you’d be happier if you lived the same way she does.
So yeah, at this point? I’ve pretty much abandoned everything but The Vine. But Hax is a good reminder — I used to like her sometimes.
Oh, thank you for asking this question! I have a similar addiction, but have a low tolerance for bad columns and thus have feared to branch out. I can’t wait to look into some of these suggestions. Score!
I will jump onto the Carolyn Hax bandwagon. She and Sars are my two favorites, hands-down. I believe you have to subscribe to the Washington Post online to look at her archives, but it is so very worth it. If you are looking for an alternative to Dan Savage (e.g., mostly sex-related advice), I really like Andrea Nemerson. Andrea is a sex educator based in San Francisco. She has a few years’ worth of archives on http://www.altsexcolumn.com. They only go through 2008; I am unsure whether she is currently syndicated (I only rediscovered her last week, you see).
Um, I meant bad _advice_ columns. I cannot stand bad advice columns. I have a larger tolerance for other types of columns.
I wanted to add that I second meagan’s recommendation for Amalah’s Advice Smackdown at AlphaMom. Her primary focus is questions about beauty products/regimen and shopping-related stuff. (She does branch out, but hers is not a relationship & emotional health sort of advice column.)
Linda, if you’re looking for an alternative sex columnist, check out Andrea at altsexcolumn.com . I’ve found her to be droll and direct without being egotistical. (She also has a joint blog with several other people in which they write “witty commentary on the things [they] buy for children and why [they] buy them,” Go Get Your Jacket. How many sex columnists also write about the tyranny of daisy patterns in children’s spring fashions?)
What I like about the advice columnists I like is not that I necessarily agree with them, but that they make me think. I like Dan Savage because it’s a very rare week in which I don’t get a couple hours interesting thinking from his column, even though I often disagree with his views. I like the Vine and Hax for the same reason (although I for more often agree with those two). The old Mr. Blue columns on Salon made me re-examine a lot of my assumptions about how and why I write.
Other than the ones listed, I also read Miss Information from nerve.com
http://www.nerve.com/regulars/missinformation