The Vine: January 21, 2009
Dear Sars,
I am looking for tips on how to become tougher. I’ve always found it hard to reconcile myself with the idea that some people don’t like me, or disapprove of some things I do, and it’s all coming to a head now.
There are two situations. Firstly, my mother-in-law, otherwise a fine woman, could supervise PhDs in passive-aggressiveness. My way of dealing with this aspect of her character is to ignore what I can ignore, and respond innocently to the rest, which usually does the trick.
But this is nothing compared to my work situation: at the job where I’ve been for the past year there is, besides the usual amount of general nastiness associated with the academic (read: kindergarten) environment, someone who hates me with a passion because of something I have no control on (I was hired to be her superior, bypassing her many years of devotion to the department).
She, and her supporters, have done all kinds of things to me, from trying to make me look as bad as possible with superiors, to leaving little anonymous messages suggesting I ruined a family when I applied for the post, to being generally unpleasant and unhelpful while I tried to get the hang of the new job.
Now, I think I have behaved in the right way in dealing with this stuff: I have complained with superiors about the serious stuff, ignored the constant little jibes, and not retaliated with stuff that I considered beneath my style. This seems to be working, albeit slowly, with several colleagues, and now at least I see a few friendly faces when I go to work.
The thing is, however, that I still care, I’m still hurt every time these things happen and, regardless of the calm and collected front I try to offer the world, I have lost a lot of sleep and wanted to cry (and cried) more times than I ought to have really, considering that I have a wonderful and supportive family and a lot of love in my private life. I don’t like this, and I don’t like that my dear ones should suffer from the fact that I’m not tough enough to remain untouched by stuff like that.
I know that changing jobs would help a lot, but this is not an option at the moment, and anyway the issue would remain: I need a thicker skin, otherwise life is always going to be more miserable than it ought to.
So, the question is: how do I stop caring too much? How do I learn to live with the fact that not everybody loves me?
Thanks in advance.
Aspiring Elephant
Dear Babar,
You just…do.And a big part of it is accepting that you do care, that there isn’t anything wrong with caring, and that it’s fine to have hurt feelings now and then, as long as you don’t let it rule your life.Everyone has work drama, everyone has annoying family members, almost everyone gets upset by those things — give yourself a break.Very few people “remain untouched” by the assholery of others, so if something like this crops up and preoccupies you, give yourself ten or fifteen minutes to obsess about it and then find something else to do.
It’s interesting to me that you say quitting your job isn’t an option.I know the economy is bad, but you could be looking for other opportunities, or insisting more strongly to HR where you are now that they take a much firmer hand in dealing with harassing or threatening behavior from your co-workers.Or doing it yourself.That woman works under you, and if she’s sabotaging you, that needs to stop, pronto.
You say you want to toughen up, but maybe you want to take that more in the direction of changing negative circumstances (instead of assuming/deciding you can’t), or sticking up for yourself more vocally.Sometimes, toughening up isn’t about not caring what others think or how they behave.Sometimes, it’s about caring, but doing what you need to do anyway.I do not enjoy firing people, or negotiating for more money, or telling close friends that an aspect of their behavior is bugging me; nobody does.Well, some people do, but your average person finds that kind of conversation or interaction very stressful.It’s okay to worry that you won’t get what you need, or whoever it is is going to get mad, and it’s okay to feel barfy about things, or cry.But if something needs changing, or you aren’t happy, things don’t fix themselves.You have to act to fix them.
And again, it’s stressful and difficult, but when you can force yourself to confront situations head-on, it builds confidence, and it lets you mind less as time goes on.No, not everybody is going to love you, but you can settle for “respects you enough not to fuck with your voicemail,” I think.
Not everyone likes each other; that sucks; neither of those things will change; you can in fact deal with them both just fine.You don’t have to feel all that tough; acting tough is usually adequate (and helps you feel tougher, too).
Sars —
About two years ago, I bought a very cute 1950s brick Cape Cod with a decent-sized unfenced backyard. The back property line is lined with very tall and very old honeysuckle bushes that provide a decent amount of shade and privacy. The bushes are actually on my side of the property line and are fairly healthy.
When I bought my house, the house behind it had been a foreclosure and was also for sale. Since I knew the property was vacant, I didn’t feel comfortable traipsing onto the property to trim back that side of the bushes and I let them grow. I kept my side trimmed.
Flash forward to this spring when the home was sold to Janet and her children. Janet and I met one afternoon soon after she moved in, and she immediately mentioned that she thought we should cut the bushes all the way down to the stumps. I told her that I would be more than happy to help her trim back the year’s extra growth and bundle it for the city. She said that was fine, but she really thought that they needed to be cut almost all the way down.
Since then, every time I see her (while out mowing, helping to clean up another neighbor’s downed tree after a storm, playing catch in our backyard, etc.) she mentions the bushes. She’s not outright nasty about it or anything, but I can’t help but wonder when she’s going to whip out her chainsaw and hack them off herself.
Long story short (too late!), what do I say when she mentions them again? And do I need to take care of her side of the bushes? Thanks for the advice!
Attempting To Avoid A Judge Judy Appearance
Dear Judy,
How much do you care about the bushes?Because if you’re sort of neutral on the bushes themselves, but don’t relish the idea of her coming after them and causing An Issue by getting on your side of the property line, just trim them all the way down.End the discussion.
If you don’t like that idea, figure out what your responsibility is as far as keeping the bushes on your side of the property line; hew to that ordinance as far as the bush maintenance goes (hee) (…ew!) (…hee); and tell her that you’ve done so the next time she brings it up.Because if her problem is just that she doesn’t like the bushes, that’s tough shit.If she doesn’t want them on her side of the property line, I don’t know anything about honeysuckle or how it grows, but if you’ve made an effort to keep them trimmed and they don’t go onto her property, problem solved.
So, figure out what you legally need to do with these plants, and do it; then figure out what the nature of her issue is with the bushes, and if it’s that she doesn’t want to look at them, well, too bad.Tell her it’s not her call, nicely, and change the subject…but before you do that, make sure it’s really not her call according to the local laws.
Dear Sars,
You give excellent advice, and I’m stuck on a situation I can’t think how to address tactfully.
My problem involves three other people.Let’s call them Ken, Barbie and Skipper.
Ken is a good friend of mine, a hell of a decent guy in just about every way.About a year ago he moved in with his girlfriend Barbie.Since then he sees most of his friends a lot less — nothing to do with Barbie, exactly, just Ken doesn’t drive and he no longer lives in walking distance of all the places he used to see everyone.
Barbie and I aren’t friends, really.No real animosity, just no real warmth either, and we’ve almost never talked.
Skipper is Barbie’s best friend, and I think is pretty close to Ken too.Skipper can’t stand me — and I admit the feeling’s pretty mutual.We’ve had some arguments in the past, and I think it’s fair to say that there were harsh words on both sides.Even Ken will admit that Skipper tends to get “overly passionate” about things, and Ken never has a harsh word for anybody.
Fast forward a few months.Ken is still living with Barbie, and the only way to get to see him, most of the time, is to go to his house and visit.Ken’s always welcoming, everyone’s fine, everything’s friendly.
Then along comes Skipper.
Skipper is crazy.For real crazy, “on medication and being treated by a clinical psychologist” crazy.I don’t really know what’s wrong with her, since we’re not exactly on the kind of terms that lead to discussion of psychological problems, but I know — from what I’ve heard “around” — that around six months ago Skipper’s intermittent problems with whatever it is got serious, and she crashed and burned and — with only a few brief gaps — she’s been staying with Ken and Barbie ever since.
From what I gather, this has been mildly exhausting for Ken and Barbie, because they’re being Skipper’s emotional support and she seems to need a lot of that at the moment.Ken especially doesn’t seem to spend a lot of time not taking care of Skipper — he goes with her to all her appointments and spends the rest of the time “looking after her.”This is their choice, of course, but it seems a little harsh — which brings us to problem the first, which is that I think it’s time that Ken and Barbie told Skipper to deal with her own problems and be less of an emotional parasite.
But Barbie won’t hear a word said against Skipper, ever — the fastest way to piss her off is to say something negative about Skipper.Once I made a comment about how Skipper could stand to lose some weight in front of both of them, and Barbie just about tore my head off.(Seriously, though, Skipper is dangerously overweight.)
So then we have the second problem, which is the part where Skipper hates me.I didn’t think this was a big deal.Last time I stopped by Ken and Barbie’s house, I hung out with Ken in the living room while Barbie and Skipper did stuff in another room — where they’d been since before I arrived.Didn’t even talk to either of them.
Afterwards I find out that Skipper finds it “stressful” to have me in the house, at all, even in another damn room, so it’s now going to be a rule that before I can visit I have to call, and if Skipper is there — at all — I can’t visit.And Skipper is always there.
So yeah, part of why I’m unhappy with the situation is that I’m getting cut off, but the real problem is that Skipper and her “mental illness” are dominating the lives of Ken and Barbie ridiculously…but they can’t seem to see it.Rumour has it that Skipper’s getting better, but it seems she’s still too messed up to deal with just about anything, and Ken and Barbie treat taking care of Skipper as being the most important thing in their lives.
This can’t be healthy.What can I do to try and make them see this?
The Onlooker, Seeing Most Of The Game
Dear Looker,
You can sit Ken down and give it to him sugar-free: you’ve got no problem with Barbie, and although you dislike Skipper, you’ve really got no problem with her either…but you think the parental role Ken and Barbie have taken with Skipper is inappropriate and toxic.That Skipper gets to make “rules” about who gets to come over and when, that after six months she’s still there, that she doesn’t appear to have anywhere else to go…you respect his compassion for her, but you think this has gone beyond that and into some dysfunctional enabling place.And you won’t follow.
But it probably isn’t going to work.If you think it’s got a shot, grit your teeth and go for it, stressing that you care about him and you don’t judge him but it’s really gone too far with the latest “rule.”But he does see it.He just doesn’t mind.
I mean, yes, Skipper is technically the problem here, but the bigger problem vis-Ã -vis your friendship with Ken is that he permits it.Skipper is Barbie’s best friend, not his, yet she dictates whether his friends can come over.Skipper is not his child, or Barbie’s, yet they do for her as though she’s an orphaned child.I understand it’s not easy to come back from a breakdown, but past a certain point, this isn’t really their job.But here they are, still doing it.Here Ken is, trapped in this house with these women, he doesn’t drive, and apparently he’s okay with this.You haven’t said one thing in this letter that indicates any dissatisfaction on Ken’s part.
Sure, tell him you’re not okay with a guest in Ken’s home dictating the terms of your friendship, but Ken himself doesn’t appear to think it’s a problem.I mean, who told you about this rule?Ken, right?”Skipper says you can’t come over unless she’s not there” — a grown man reported this to you about the rules of his own home?
It’s possible you can get him to see that, if he doesn’t give Skipper a little pushback, he’s going to lose you as a friend, simply because you’ll never get to see each other anymore if that rule sticks.Can you get him to see that the situation is claustrophobic and creepy?Probably not.He’s lived in it for six months and there’s no appreciable end in sight.He’s choosing this, and you need to see that for what it is. This friendship may have already ended.
Tags: etiquette friendships roommates workplace
@Judy I would find out if she has allergies (or one of her kids do). If there is a real reason she’s having problems then you guys should try to work it out. If it’s just being a pain in the butt, when she brings up the plants tell her to build a fence. As long as you are trimming the plants and keeping them on your side, then tough cookies for her. Having had a LOT of trouble with neighbors, I have have to say I’m starting to think she wants an unobstructed view of what you all are doing the in backyard or she wants her kids free access to use your yard (in fact her kids might already be using your yard when you’re not home and she wants to keep and eye on them). Yes I know, I sound harsh but like I’ve said I had a lot of trouble with neighbors where I used to live.
The hidden flip off…hee!
While I was married to my ex, when he was vile to me in one of his various ways, I would go into another room, and flip him off vigourously. (Both hands!!! ) I had completely forgotten that until I read boosyboots post. I can second the fact that it is quite helpful at those times when you can’t say or do what you would really like to.
Elephant, I completely relate to having the thin skin and losing sleep over people not liking you. It’s good advice here, I think, to realize that some people just never will, no matter what you do.
I’ve been in a wonderful loving relationship for a little over a year and my boyfriend has two wonderful kids, who I get along with really well. But the other night we went to one of the kids’ concerts at her school, and her mother was there. I’ve met her a few times and we’ve been civil to each other, which is fine. But her whole family was at this concert, FOUR brothers and sisters, all with spouses and kids and stuff, and almost every last one of them gave me the stinkeye. No smile, acknowledgement, anything. Boyfriend said that they’re just kind of like that to “outsiders,” and I guess it makes sense in our situation that they’d be even more like that. But it’s really something I’m having to work through…if this relationship lasts and we’re in for the long haul (and it seems very promising that we are) then I will have to get used to occasional contact with this large group of people who do NOT like me, and apparently won’t ever like me, no matter what I do. It’s really scary for me.
Anyway, sorry to make this all about me. Just know that you aren’t alone, and that it’s okay to care, but like others here have said, you have love in your life so you know that you can love and be loved. Just not by everyone. Which sucks, but that’s the way it is, and why waste your time worrying about someone who wastes their time being jerky?
It sounds like you’re taking all the right measures in your work situation and taking care of things with the superiors as needed. Start taking care of yourself now…you may not be able to stop their lame actions, but you can work on believing that you don’t deserve them and that those people aren’t worth losing sleep over.
Careful with the hidden flip offs! I understand the appeal (and I totally giggled when I pictured you doing it under the desk), but I actually have a friend who got fired from a job when she flipped off her boss behind the boss’s back, then turned around and realized another co-worker saw it. And reported it.
The hidden flip off can bite you in the ass.
@HoneySuckle Judy Given your follow up, I don’t know what her problem is…unless she’s allergic and won’t tell you, as Vail mentions (but, then again, if you’re allergic to outside stuff in other people’s yard…eh). Or…she really, really likes honey suckle and thinks the bushes are scrappy looking at the bottom and wants them to start over and be all bushy at the bottom again. But since they’re not hers…too bad.
When I moved in, both of my neighbors made points of mentioning a couple things dwelling on or near our property line that “were not their’s and had been put there by the previous neighbors” which I took to mean “I don’t really like that, so if you wanted to get rid of it…” In all cases…I happened to more or less agree, in fact, and got rid of said offending things (over time, not the next day). However, in all cases, it was either pretty clear why they sucked (rusting old chicken wire stapled to the wooden fence on neighbor facing side) or they mentioned why they weren’t so good (“this rickety trellis makes it hard to throw snow between our garages”).
Anyway, what I’m saying is…its not unreasonable for your neighbors to share why they want something changed. But, it doesn’t mean you have to change it.
@Elephant
Plenty of good advice, but one thing struck me in your letter: You said you were this nasty person’s superior. I don’t know the exact hierarchy here, but if this person reports to you or is subordinate to you, you definitely have an advantage. Kindness is great, but don’t completely rule out a supervisory smackdown, either. Leaving nasty notes on the desks of other folks goes way beyond snottiness to me–that’s unprofessional and harassing, and in just about every company I’ve worked for, grounds for disciplinary action. It’s not even about just canning someone; you may have the option of putting them on probation of some sort. I’ve had coworkers and managers use that to great effect in more than one instance. As someone who’s had to deal with a couple of difficult (to put it nicely) direct reports, I know it’s not easy or fun even when you’re the boss, but as long as you document everything and make it clear to your bosses beforehand what measures you’re going to take, it could be a good way to show this person both the serious consequences of being a pain in the butt or, worst case, getting the ball rolling for firing her.
Am I the only one picturing Ken, Barbie and Skipper as the actual dolls living in the Barbie Dreamhouse and being moved around by little kid hands and voiced by little kid voices (and giggling hysterically as a result)?
@Elephant: May or may not be possible at your job, but where I work, we frequently find it best to just put on a pair of headphones and ignore each other entirely. And if you’ve got people who feel the same way about ringleader nasty lady, bitch sessions where you all commiserate about the obnoxiousness can be very therapeutic.
Judy, if the bushes are valuable to you, it might not be a bad idea to do a pre-emptive strike and put up a fence yourself. Not that anyone has cash for those kinds of projects in these times, but I can just see this lady deciding that she has some right to whack those bushes down anyway, because that’s what she wants. People who keep bringing crap up do so for a reason, and you were more than gracious the first time. After the second mention, I’d be fearing for my plants!
Definitely check your local laws for obligations, and follow them. I would expect that you are responsible for all sides of any bushes that are 100% on your property, but if they actually straddle the property line, it gets hazier. Might want to see what rights you have if they are 100% in your yard and she damages them, in case you end up in small claims.
Not that I’ve had neighbor problems or anything. No sir… not me…
@Elephant: I really would think about changing jobs, in the longer term. I’m not particularly thick-skinned either, but when I have found myself in similar situations in the past, I’ve done what I can to improve it/tolerate it and then got out if it didn’t improve signficantly within say, a year. I found a sad little email from myself to my husband from about five years ago the other day, detailing all the reasons why it was probably my fault I was in such a situation. Looking back, it certainly wasn’t – I was working with some people with real problems and it had nothing to do with me. Seriously, it just isn’t worth putting up with this sort of stuff indefinitely, there are other jobs out there. I would not be advising this if it was a case of just supervising one awkward person, but a whole bunch of them behaving like schoolchildren? It’s not worth the hassle.
@Judy – I am concerned about why your neighbour would want the barrier between your two gardens removed completely. It is pretty unusual for someone to want less privacy. In UK law she would have the right to trim any branches that hang on her side of the barrier (I’m not clear if there’s a fence or wire as well?) If you were feeling nice you could cut her side as well as yours periodically, but you certainly wouldn’t have to. Not sure what rules apply in the US, but really, this is not your problem and honeysuckle is pleasant to look at, smells nice and dies back in the winter. She should count herself lucky she’s not looking at a 20 foot high row of leylandii or a fence creosoted in a foul shade of orange! If there’s no physical barrier other than the bushes, I would be tempted to put in a chain-link fence behind the bushes (on her side), to make a clear boundary. That should stop any chainsaw plans.
The weight comment about Skipper struck me as seriously out of line and tactless, and makes me think that things are uncomfortable at the Dreamhouse not in spite of, but because of Onlooker.
You just don’t trash someone’s best friend to them, which suggests to me that Onlooker is not great at mediating social situations in the first place. If you want to change the situation, that means changing your own behavior. In this case, that means no more trash-talking Skipper to Ken or Barbie, and no in person nastiness if the opportunity comes up.
If that’s too hard to accomplish, then maybe your relationship with Ken is not actually that important to you.
@Elephant: I totally feel for you as I have been in a bad work sitch recently and have a thin skin. I agree with Sars advice that you’re ruling out switching jobs as a possiblity for yourself. Your thinking sounds black and white as in “Either I stay at this job and learn to suck it up or I’m a failure.” The other way to think about it is to deal the best you can (sounds like you’ve been doing an ok job) and look to changing things long term.
In my experience of dealing with nasty co-workers I’ve found that being nice and sweet to them actually backfires on you. I would watch how they treat the co-workers they’re more friendly too and try to do likewise. I’m not saying to be nasty and obnoxious-there’s some middle road you have to find there. They want someone who can stand up for themself and give sh*t back to them. Otherwise, they’ll see you as weak and never respect you.
FYI: I got out of that work sitch (it was reallly bad and I was really suffering) and have found similar work in a much more positive environment. I’ve come to realize that it wasn’t me but the people themselves who were a**holes. Now whenever little things come up where I feel like people don’t like me or my behavior I just compare it to the severity of my last job and laugh at it all. Hope things work out for you.
BKU: “The hidden flip off can bite you in the ass.”
(so it’s best to wear mittens when you do it.)
Maybe I’m missing something, but what’s stopping Onlooker from pulling up in front of Ken and Barbie’s house, grabbing her cell phone, and calling to say “Ken, come on out – we’re going to Starbucks”?
@Elephant: small thing, but what I’ve learned to do (to go from being super upset by people not liking me, to being upset for a moment but generally ok with it) is to think “that’s ok. I don’t like everyone either”. Seriously, it’s stating the obvious, but when I remind myself that there are people that I don’t like (whether for a reason, or sometimes for no reason at all, just bad chemistry or something), I tend to take it less personally. This is just general advice on getting thicker skin – as far as disrespectful and inappropriate behavior, I agree with the other posters…
@Natalie: I was struck by the same thought exactly. Even if Skipper is morbidly obese, the comment about her needing to lose weight is a red flag to me. If Onlooker doesn’t like Skipper, I doubt that she made the comment out of concern for her health – more likely out of animosity. I totally felt from Onlooker’s post that she was likely a large part of the problem. Which might also explain why Ken wouldn’t make more of an effort to resist Skipper’s rule – maybe he’s kind of relieved not to have to hang out with Onlooker? Just speculating.
I know it’s late for doing this, but I wanted to thank Sars, and you all, for the wonderful advice and support you have given me. There have already been occasions in which I have come back to this page and read through the answer and comments to my letter. Things are slowly getting better, mainly because the Main Hater is making herself look silly now, and the others have come to see that I’m not so horrible after all. For what it’s worth, here are some details: I was hired by an external committee, so there is nobody in my department who wanted me – they all wanted the Main Hater, and let me know this quite openly from the beginning, especially some people who are my superios in rank – although not my direct superiors, which made it more difficult to complain officially. There is no standard procedure for harassment that is not sexual in my institution – and in the country I suspect; I have spoken to HR, and also to my head of dept, who is a nice woman, but I haven’t taken further steps because things have gotten better, so I preferred not to stir things up again – I am not the confrontational kind, as you can see! But I have religiously kept a record of all nasty little things that have been happening, and casually let other colleagues know what MH has been doing. Part of the problem is that in an academic environment there are very fluid rules about who has authority over whom, which can be an advantage, because one rarely has to do do something if she doesn’t want to, but on the other hand it’s very difficult to pin responsibility on one person. The MH is in a junior position to me (although she’s more then 10 years older), but I have no authority over her, and because she’s been there for ever, and a local to boot, she has connections and power which I am only now beginning to get (I had been abroad for a long time). There is no way I can have a career in my field, in my country, if I don’t at least make it to the end of my three years probation – it’s a very small academic field, there are about 35 people in the whole country who have a permanent post and work on vaguely similar topics. I think what has helped me most over the past year and a half is being able to vent with sympathetic people, who have given me advice but whose main role has been listening and giving me support – it’s been my shield. The main question if it’s worth staying in this career, and in this country, if work conditions are like this, and this is what I am debating. I’m giving myself another year or two, and then I’ll have to see whether it’s time to reprogramme… Thanks again to everyone, from the bottom of my heart.