The Vine: January 7, 2009
Hello Sars,
I write about the lovely Robert, who is not actually our landlord, but the legal caretaker for our absentee landlord’s buildings and tenants (absentee landlord lives in Europe).I lived with three wonderful roommates in a pretty nice flat in Boston for one year.Things started getting annoying as soon as we filled out the rental application, and have now reached their climax.I will elaborate as briefly as I can.
When we arrived at the place, we found it a mess.The previous tenants not only didn’t patch up the holes in the walls, they left a bunch of heavy furniture there, as well.Also, the things we had requested be fixed (missing floor tiles, missing window screens, broken screen door, broken glass on our deck door, rotting windowsill in shower, broken power outlet, one roommate’s bedroom door wouldn’t shut, etc. ) hadn’t even been touched.
When we approached Robert, he gave us The Form — I’m not sure what it’s called, but it’s a pretty typical inspection form to be filled out by new tenants regarding the shape of the property — and told us that the things would be taken care of within the week.He also told us to move the furniture ourselves, which we did with great difficulty.
One week turned into one month, one month into six months.After six months, the really dangerous things were fixed (the wall was so rotten that it could have collapsed, and the broken glass was fixed), but the rest were left just as they were, despite various requests in the form of friendly reminders to actual legal threats.
Our lease ended as of this month, and we all moved away, me halfway across the country, one to Europe, and two to better situations in the same city.However, the drama still continues.Enter the Security Deposit Saga.
I left my very large bureau in the apartment, explaining to the person subletting my room that she should call Salvation Army to take it away if she didn’t want to keep it.She agreed, but forgot.I felt badly about it, as it was a big pain for my roommates to get it out of the place.One roommate, let’s call her Elise, spoke to Robert about what should be done with it.He gave her very specific instructions about how to get it out, where to put it on the curb, etc.
Roomies followed instructions to a T…except it looked like Robert had given them the wrong instructions, because the city, so he says (and it’s probably true), fined him $275 for having trash on the curb, or something like that.
Now Robert wants to take this money out of our security deposit, and we are livid.We feel that we did our part by asking him how to go about disposing of the bureau, and that it’s not our fault if he told us the wrong thing.He’s being very cool and smooth as usual, explaining that it’ll take him the entire MONTH to “figure out” how to “fix this mess,” before giving us our deposit (whatever part of it he sees fit).
Now, finally, the question: what is the most hassle-free way to get our rightful amount back, what with two of us gone? If I still lived in Boston, I’d haul his sorry butt to small-claims court, but even then, I don’t know if I’d have a leg to stand on.I mean, we can’t prove that we followed his instructions, even though we certainly did.
I know it’s not a huge amount to lose, in the long run, but none of us is rich, nor do we enjoy getting screwed.Do we have any options? Are they worth it? Should we just be mad and get on with our lives?
Slum Landlords Should Live In Their Own Apartments, Dammit
Dear Slum,
This is one of those “fool me twice” situations where you have to admit defeat and move on to the next thing.I don’t love recommending, in this economy, that you guys just eat the $275, but you can’t prove in writing that you disposed of the bureau as instructed; even if you could, as you point out, you’d have to come back to Boston and physically take your ass to small-claims court, which takes time; and it’s over $275, which I assume you’d split four ways, after which it really isn’t worth it when you stack it up against the time/emotion investment.
And part of what you want here, the money aside, is for Robert to get an official, institutional comeuppance for sucking as a caretaker, which is completely understandable — and the most irritating thing about people who do not act right and do their shit like they’re supposed to is that they almost never get it.You punish them somehow, get the money, fire them, whatever, but it’s not like they go, “Ohhhh, okay,” because if they had that capacity?They would act right to start with.
So, let that part of it go, and assess the rest of it: the likelihood that you’ll get the money back without having to go through with a small-claims threat; the likelihood that that would work; how much more time and energy you want to sign over to this guy.Unless you’re looking at a much higher net number, I don’t think you want to bother.You can send one more letter, and cc it to an amenable lawyer friend so Robert thinks you’ve retained counsel on the matter.If that works, great; if not, vow not to live under those conditions in the future, and drop it.
Hi Sars:
I have an etiquette question for you that I don’t think necessarily has a “right” answer, but I’d love to hear your opinion.
I’m a freelance writer/editor who has worked from home for about five years. Right now, all of my assignments come from regular, long-term gigs.
I’m seven weeks pregnant with my third child. In a month or so, I’d like to start notifying my clients. The jobs are as such that it’s very likely that I’ll still be employed by each company when it is time for me to give birth. I haven’t worked out the details yet of the amount of time off I’m going to take, but I figured since a lot of my work can be done ahead of time, I can come to an agreement in advance with each individual client. I have every intention of continuing to work after the baby is born.
In some cases, any contact I’ve ever had with any of these folks has been through email only. I’ve been with one company since May and have yet to speak to anyone on the phone. For this particular employer, I have two bosses.
So here’s my question: How do I share my little announcement? It seems little strange to tell people such big news (big to me anyway) in such an impersonal way. On the other hand, since I’ve never actually spoken to my editors, it seems weird that the first time I pick up the phone is to say I’m pregnant. Am I overthinking this?
Any advice you or your readers can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Signed,
At least working from home, I don’t have to worry about my morning sickness giving it away too early!
Dear Morning,
First of all, congratulations, and I hope you’re not too sick of saltines.Heh.
I would make the phone call; I’d always rather err on the side of too formal, and while calling instead of emailing might seem like it’s making too big a deal of things, you also don’t want to make too small a deal of it — because I think your real concern is not the actual etiquette of the announcement, but what the announcement might prompt.
Maybe I’m wrong and you’re confident that nothing will change with your clients, which is great — but if that were the case, I feel like you wouldn’t be anxious about how to tell them.Do you think they’ll assume you can’t handle the workload, and give your assignments to someone else?Are you worried about how much time off you should tell them you’ll be taking once the baby arrives?
Again, if these aren’t concerns, just ignore me, pick up the phone, and give them a heads-up — although I’d wait ’til you’re further along, both for the obvious anti-jinx reasons and because, as the due date gets closer, you’ll have a better idea of where you are on various projects, what work has to get done ahead of time exactly, and so on.
But if they are, maybe do a little rehearsal of your plan: remind them you’ve done this before (this is your third child, so while it’s always a hectic time with a newborn, you do at least know what to expect); outline your plan for covering the workload before and after you deliver; think of any other concerns they might have and come up with a response to parry them.
This probably is not a big deal; I can’t speak for other editors, but honestly, I don’t assume that work isn’t going to get done due to some outside factor unless or until it isn’t getting done, so if this announcement were made to me, I’d be like, “Awesome, congratulations!Let me know if you need a sub,” and that would be the end of it provided you didn’t blow any deadlines.
Call up the relevant editors (in the case of the job with two bosses, pick the one you’ve had more contact with, or for whom you work more directly); give them the news, and let them know they’re covered on your work; resist the urge to over-explain.
Hi Sars,
I need some advice on what could turn out to be an awkward situation.
Some background: My friend and I have been alternating babysitting for a third friend for a year.It’s just one day a week for about four hours, the child is a toddler and great fun, but it is always at the end of a long workday for us, stretching our workday from eight hours into 12. We don’t get paid, more like we trade favors for each other — we babysit, she watches our pets when we are out of town, that sort of thing.
We offered to babysit at the start of the year when she lost her regular babysitter, but now we are realizing that we are the long-term childcare.My question is how to tell her that we no longer want to babysit, without ruining our friendship?
Thanks,
I don’t want to be Mary Poppins just because I’m single
Dear Mary,
Each of you, preferably separately so she doesn’t feel ganged up on, needs to let your friend know that you’re sorry, but you won’t be able to babysit on a regular basis anymore.Don’t use the word “want.”Use the word “can’t.”Don’t elaborate or make up excuses; you just can’t do it.You have a job already, and you just don’t have the time.
If she presses you, point out to her gently that this is in fact work that people get paid to do — and you do not get paid.Occasional cat-sitting is, I’m afraid, not the equivalent of minding and entertaining a toddler for four hours a week, and if she wants to stop doing that in return, well, you’ll get a cat-sitter — but having you guys cover her every now and then is one thing.Assuming you’ll do it every week, when she used to pay someone to do it, is another.And it looks a little bit like taking advantage.
She probably knows this can’t last, or maybe she just doesn’t realize that it’s kind of presumptuous of her at this point not to have replaced her regular babysitter instead of leaning on you, but whatever the case, if you don’t want to do it anymore, tell her you can’t — and don’t agree to another month’s worth because you don’t want her to get mad, either.She gets one more week, to give her time to set something else up; after that, you’re done.
Tags: etiquette friendships kids roommates workplace
@Mary- Sars is totally right as usual. Also, I had a gig going on with a friend of mine where I’d house/dog sit for her when she and her husband were going for a week or ten days. It was fine, but I then got my own dog and it became inconvenient. I just told her that, without any sugar coating and she was absolutely fine with it- zero hard feelings and she thanked me for helping her out as much as I did. I’m guessing that your friend already knows that she’s asking a bit much and will just be happy that you helped for as long as you could.
I will say that I’d give her a month’s notice just because I know (from my friends) how hard finding child care can be, but you shouldn’t feel guilty if you don’t feel like doing that. She’s already saved a hell of a bundle with all that you’ve done. In fact, my friend looked at me house/dog sitting while they were on their honeymoon as my wedding gift to them and mentioned that it was the best gift they’d gotten. After paying $700 for boarding *my* two dogs over the holidays, I understand that she wasn’t just being nice when she said that. :)
Slum, you might want to take a look at the property code for Mass. and see what it says about security deposits. It is possible that Robert has already violated some of his responsibilities re: the security deposit and legally needs to return the whole thing. It is also possible that retaining part of your deposit for this reason isn’t allowed. A few quotes from the property code in an official-sounding letter may loosen him up. Now, if that doesn’t work then you really are down to having to take him to small claims or hiring a lawyer. Good luck!
— over eager 1st year law student
Morning, I’m an editor who manages freelance writers and it has never been a problem for us when a freelancer has a kid. We know a lot of the people working for us are stay at home moms who work around their kids lives and this is no different. One woman we use regularly gave birth this summer and simply emailed to tell us she wouldn’t be available from X date till Y date. I still have yet to ever speak to her on the phone and as soon as she was available again, we hired her right back. As long as you have a longstanding relationship with your clients, you shouldn’t have any problem at all. Good luck!
I definitely agree that Slum needs to assess whether it’s worth investing the time/emotion into going after Robert but, for what it’s worth, I had a security deposit withheld from me 9 years ago and it still burns me that I didn’t get it back! I wish I’d followed through to get it back and it was only $175. Like all small claims, it’s the principle of it, you know?
It was my first place on my own, in a basement suite of a house the landlord lived in upstairs. When I left, she withheld money from my security deposit because 1. I didn’t clean the carpets when I left (true) and 2. because she claimed my boyfriend lived there as well (false) and she kept a percentage of my deposit to make up for the added cost of water and heat bills. The ridiculous part of THAT is that my bf and I were really new at the time and actually showered together a lot!
So I did sue her (only to get back the money she withheld on the second point), but instead of going straight to court, we were put through to a moderation of sorts, where the hope is that talking it out will solve the dispute and save the court’s time and money. I was quite young and the moderators and my former landlord completely bullied me into accepting back half of my deposit because, my landlord claimed, the lease and bills I brought in to show that my boyfriend had his own place “could’ve been made at any copy place!” Yeah right, like I’m Frank Abagnale Jr or something.
ANYWAYS! Point of the story is: even though it would have cost me a lot more time and energy to go to court than it did to settle for half, I still wish I’d done it.
Slum, if you don’t want to look in to the MA property code yourself (and who would?), I would recommend contacting the Tenant Advocacy Project at Harvard Law School (http://tiny.cc/58krH). TAP couldn’t represent you if you decided to take your claim to court (because it only represents tenants in public housing) but the organization does have a general advice program. If you call, within a couple of days, a law student will call you back with an answer to your question. The students take this very seriously and are advised by practicing attorneys before they tell you anything so you could trust what they say. Might be a good resource.
I would be absolutely shocked and rightly pissed/devastated if my friends gave me one week’s notice that they couldn’t watch my kid anymore. A month is exactly right. Sars, I’ve always agreed with every piece of advice I’ve ever read from you, but on this one aspect of this one letter, I completely disagree. One week is awful. As a mom who never imposes on friends to sit, and would never do what Mary P’s friend did, I still think a week is a crappy thing to do to a mom. She can’t possibly find someone in a week’s time. Friends shouldn’t do that to friends. Mary P. can hang in for one more month. Yes, Mary let this go too long, yes, Mary’s friend imposed, but she didn’t realize this was an imposition, because Mary didn’t tell her. Mary would not be in the right to suddently get fed up and drop this commitment with one week’s notice. Not if she wants to keep the friendship. It doesn’t sound like what Mary’s friend did (the imposing on her time) was malicious — it was a trade, and one that everyone agreed to. With inadequate expectation-setting before it began. But that doesn’t make it right to drop this bombshell on her with no notice. I would be devastated and feel, rightly, totally betrayed if my friend did this to me with one lousy week’s notice. Better would be to say that you won’t be able to do it after Feb. __, but that if she finds someone sooner, that would be awesome because if you had your druthers, you’d stop now but that you wouldn’t want to leave her in the lurch. So, you think a month gives her time to find a replacement. I feel ya on the not liking the arrangement, but don’t be a bad friend and screw over your buddy. A week might sound like a good amount of time? But to a mom, trust me, it’s way too little.
@ Slum-
Have you or any of your former roommates tried to contact the actual landlord? Not for the sake of getting your money back; handling these matters is why building owners hire superintendents. But, this particular owner should be notified that this particular superintendent is a worthless employee, the kind of superintendent who gives landlords and rentals a bad name. Also, if some of the repair/neglect issues had resulted in personal injuries, the actual owner might have been held legally liable. Yes, it’s a lot of “what if, but if” stuff; but at least one of you should give the owner a clue that his property is being neglected by his designated representative.
And yes, for what it’s worth, I was a small-time (1 unit in my own house) landlord for a few years. I was also a tenant for many years before that. Wouldn’t take either position again for all the tea in China!
@ChrEliz: What would have happened before this, if Mary and her friend both hadn’t been available on a given week because they were sick or something? Their friend would have had to work something else out; she’d have had no choice. That wouldn’t have been a “betrayal,” and I don’t think this is, either. I understand child care is hard to arrange, especially on short notice — I’m providing some myself later today, for that very reason — but when a friend who does not share every single priority in common with you can no longer do you a favor that inconveniences her…”pissed,” fine. “Rightfully pissed,” I’m not so sure.
Honestly, another month, sure, go for it. Each friend babysits twice more and it’s not a huge imposition. But on the other hand, it’s one night a week for Mom; it’s maybe not a huge imposition on her to go without it until she finds another sitter, either. My main point in my response wasn’t so much the time frame as the pleasant but firm “I can’t do it anymore, I’m sorry.” But I don’t think “I can’t do you *this favor* after next week” makes Mary a bad friend.
@Candy: I’m with you on scumbag landlords who withhold security deposits, and I’m TOTALLY with Slum on landlords (and their representatives) who don’t do what they’re supposed to and have agreed to in order to prepare for new tenants. I was in the same position; my landlord didn’t do the repairs OR the cleaning that were supposed to happen before I moved in, AND he moved away – WITH my deposit (just over $2300) after selling the building (without notifying me that he was going to do so). I have no way to reach him, nor am I in the position to go chasing after him. I have to hope that he rots in hell, because the storage unit I ALSO rented from him leaked like a sieve – he’d lied about the roof being repaired. So the goods in storage were also ruined. I wish I’d had insurance, but I had barely enough money to cover my existing bills. And somewhere along the way, between his selling the building and my moving out (while the new owner was renovating) – several jars with hundreds of dollars’ worth of coins were taken from my kitchen. They left the jar of pennies, though.
What kills me is that I was a good tenant, too – paid timely for seven years (the first tenant, apparently, who ever did that), made any necessary repairs myself, didn’t bill the landlord for them, kept an eye on the business downstairs to make sure there were no break-ins at night, etc.
My wish is that somehow, the good tenants and good landlords would find each other, and the scummy tenants and landlords would be stuck with each other. (And, of course, that my own particularly landlord dies a protracted, miserable death followed by eternity in hell).
Re Slum: I actually wonder what will happen if I ever move, because there are giant burn marks on the wood floor in my apt. that were there when I moved in, but I neglected to get pix at the time (naiive new renter). I have a feeling I’ll be battling over my security deposit should I ever leave.
In the meantime, it seems like getting your security deposit back is the hardest sometimes. And “Robert” sounds like an ass. I hope this works out for you! (Why are there so many lousy, lazy caretakers out there? And to all you good ones – keep up the good work! There aren’t enough of you!)
re: babysitting – I’d try to give the friend some extra time to work something else out. I think a week is honestly a bit short. Personally, I only babysit for one of three reasons:
a – I really like the family/kids and get a kick out of being with them
b – We trade valuable favors
c – I get paid.
Given how broke I am these days, I take all the paying babysitting I can get!
Slum, I’ve found this phrase invaluable: “I get free legal services through my job.” It worked a charm on my own personal slumlord and I got my entire deposit back. (same issues – place was trashed when I moved in, hazardous failure to maintain, etc.) As Robin says, I wonder if a letter to the absentee owner would help at all. S/he should know Robert’s slacking off to the degree that the building structure is in jeopardy and tenants are in danger. Good luck! (Hire Shannon!)
Morning, congratulations! You must be a powerhouse, two kids, one on the way, working at home. I have no advice, but you’re awesome.
Mary, if a week seems short to you, ask her how long she needs…bet she can find someone new in less than a month. You’ve been the best babysittin’ buddies ever FOR A YEAR, and that’s plenty. I doubt this will jeopardize cat-sitting, Mama knows she owes you BIG time!
I agree with trying to contact the actual property owner, if you can find him. It may be he’s the kind of owner who’s content to let the property decline as long as he’s collecting rent checks, it may be he owns lots of properties and doesn’t have time or care to pay attention to each one. But it also may be that he will be genuinely pissed to hear that this person he has hired is not doing their job. Its worth a shot at least.
Another resource might be for the roommates still in Boston to talk to the local neighborhood or community council. Neighborhood councils HATE rental property that is not well maintained, because it brings down the whole neighborhood. Go to a meeting, stay after and talk to the people-they will know what city department is responsible for blighted property and how to file complaints.
@ChrEliz: I’d have to agree with Sars on this as well, if only in that they are not, techinically, her professional child care. I think you only get to be “rightfully” pissed if said friend had agreed to watch your baby for the next six months and then said, actually, I’m stopping tomorrow. There is no explicit agreement here. They are not employee and boss.
Also, this wasn’t really a “trade.” It doesn’t sound like they sat down at the beginning of the year and went, I’ll watch your kid, you watch my cat. Sounds more like they did her a favor and therefore feel okay asking for a favor in return. I mean, Mary should give the friend as much time as she wants to give. But I don’t see any friendship being betrayed here.
On the sitter question, I would say that the notice-giving may be dependent on *why* friend has need of an evening babysitter. If it’s because she does pilates on Tuesday night, it might not be such a big deal if it takes her a few weeks to find a new sitter. If it’s because on that day Mary has a 12-hour shift and needs child-care after the day care closes, I would say more notice so that she can get a new babysitting arrangement made is required.
“but when a friend who does not share every single priority in common with you can no longer do you a favor that inconveniences her…”pissed,” fine. “Rightfully pissed,” I’m not so sure.â€
Sars, thank you for this. I think it’s a brilliant summation of my own feelings on similar matters. I am single, and have no kids. When my Parent friends had kids, their priorities changed – I get that. It’s right and it’s how life should be. When it makes them less available to me, do I occasionally feel slighted as a friend? Sure, I won’t lie, sometimes it happens, but I get over it. Their lives changed, mine didn’t. To me, we should both respect that, because neither of us holds the “rightfully†pissed trump card.
@ChrEliz: You should keep in mind that the letter from Mary was probably written well before the start of this year – which means that Mary and her friend have been working as unpaid sitters for well over a year now. Which sounds…ominous, to me – Mary doesn’t mention the kid being a terror to watch, so either available babysitters are scarce as hen’s teeth in her area, or the mom has a Reputation as being unpleasant to deal with in some way – possibly she’s offering less than what anyone wants to work for?
Alternately, it’s possible that the kid is a terror to watch – he’s just well-behaved for family friends (although I doubt this possibility; bratty kids are generally bratty, no matter who’s watching them).
Either way, the mom has had months to look for a new sitter already – if she can’t find one, she ought to have apologized to Mary and her friend and maybe offered an honorariam or something to compensate them for the time they’re giving up for her night out.
(Since we’re only a week into the new year, I really doubt Mary’s talking about having been working as unpaid help since the start of this year.)
“You can send one more letter, and cc it to an amenable lawyer friend so Robert thinks you’ve retained counsel on the matter. If that works, great; if not, vow not to live under those conditions in the future, and drop it.”
I totally did this to my deadbeat landlord when he tried to end our month-to-month lease with too little warning, and it worked. I cc’d a lawyer friend, linked to a page on the state attorney general’s site that went into detail about this part of the law, and said that if he still wanted to pursue this course of action, our next communication would come directly from our lawyer. He backed off immediately.
Part of my letter also detailed the numerous illegal things he’d done as a landlord, for which we could have taken legal action against him, but just hadn’t yet. That was more cathartic for me than anything, but in your case it might be really useful, because Robert may be right that you legally owe him the $275. But you may be right that he can’t take it out of your security deposit.
So if you remind him of the many things he did as a property manager that were illegal (not fixing things on time, making you move the previous tenants’ furniture, not cleaning and making repairs to the apartment prior to your move-in), you may be able to convince or scare him into not pursuing the $275 from you.
@Slum:
If its been more than 30 days without actual written notice you may be in luck. According to http://www.rentlaw.com/dep/massdeposit.htm if he does not give you an itemized list of damages within 30 of the end of your tenancy you are entitled to ” the immediate return of your security deposit AND triple damages, plus court costs, and reasonable attorney’s fees.” There are a lot more details on the website but if you just sit tight until the 30 days are up you could really stick it to Robert!
I definitely agree with Claudia that the reason why the mom needs a weekly sitter should be taken into account. How much real hardship with only providing a week’s notice really give the mom? Would she financially suffer or not? Also, if both of the friend currently provide free sitting agree to do it one more time, that effectively gives the mom 2 weeks’ notice, which sounds fair to me. Now I think if they both wanted to quit with no notice at all, they would be within their rights to do so – but I think it could damage the friendship. Yes, they are totally doing her a HUGE favour, and they are totally justified in feeling taking advantage of and want to stop. However, they should try to avoid leaving their friend in the lurch – assuming they still want the friendship. Maybe they don’t after providing free babysitting for a year.
@ChrEliz and Mary: As a mom of 3 I try to be super careful about how much I impose on my single friends and family to babysit. I do have several “mommy friends” with whom I swap child care, but I don’t feel like there’s any way I can adequately compensate people who don’t have children without actually paying them. I also watch my best friend’s two kids every day after school (which means getting 4 children through homework while entertaining a preschooler) but we trade construction skills for child care, and no one feels taken advantage of. That part seems to be the key. Mary and her friend were amazing to do this for a year, and their friend should be showering them with baked goods and free laundry services at the very least! I do think Mary might want to give her more than a week, since short notice could make the mom feel ambushed, but Mary clearly feels taken advantage of, and the resentment could eventually kill the friendship if things don’t change. Swaps only work if the skill-to-time ratios even out.
@Slum I had difficulty retrieving a rental deposit and it wasn’t as crappy of a situation as your’s, but it was stupid. They didn’t inspect the place until 4 weeks (and that was only after a called a couple times) after we moved out which was after the time we should have legally received our deposit back and they dinged us on stuff like, “Washing machine was dusty.” Um, its been 4 weeks and our townhouse is next to a construction site. We got our full deposits back by one of us showing up and demanding them back (having called and asked a couple times and getting not much response). Not saying you can’t scare your money up from afar, just saying an in person demand might be easiest. Do you have any gutsy friends still living in the area that would accept a cut of the money to show up? Although contacting the landlord might not be a bad idea.
@Poppins Are there other factors to take into consideration here? Is your friend purposely taking advatage of you? Is she cheap? Does she have post partum depression and hasn’t noticed that she’s using you as free sitters? I’m not saying you should continue to shut up and sit, just other things to consider before making the transition. If its a simple matter that she’s cheap and using you, then by all means, cut her off from the free sitting. If she’s fallen into a habit, then she just needs simple wake up call, “Hey, can’t sit anymore” as Sars says.
If she’s really struggling and this is her life-line…then maybe make sure she’s still getting an outlet away from the kids. Maybe continue to sit, but make sure you’re getting compensated or you sit less often or for a shorter time. Or she gets some help. Or maybe her family knows she needs help (its not necessarily your job to fix).
Maybe that’s too much armchair psych. I just have pets.
To Slum,
The one thing that could get the landlord (and Robert) in trouble is whether they sent you WRITTEN notice as to what portion of your deposit they were keeping and WHY. Many states (I don’t live in MA so I can’t attest to their laws) REQUIRE a landlord to send WRITTEN notice (emails and phone calls don’t cut it) within 30 days of how much of your deposit they’re holding and why. And in many states, you’re allowed to sue for two to three times the full amount of the sec. deposit, regardless of how much they’re trying to keep.
Just found this link. Hope it helps!
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat07.htm
Slum, I live in Boston.
Unless you’re talking about the nicer parts of Brookline, Newton or the surround suburbs, Robert is lying about being charged by the trash people.
People move all the time, and leave crap on the sidewalks in Boston, Allston, Somerville, Cambridge, Brighton, etc etc. Usually, a starving student takes it, but if not, the trash people haul it away at no charge. I have never, in the 10 years I’ve lived here, and the 5 years I’ve worked with college students and young professionals, heard of this happening.
Ask to see the bill/fine.
@slum –
Here’s Landlord/Tenant info from the Massachusetts Office of Consumer Affairs and Business Regulation: http://tinyurl.com/29pdmj (it’s generally better to look at direct sources than meta sites like rentlaw if you’re interested in getting specific about your legal rights).
A couple of key points –
– You guys are entitled to interest on your security deposit and last month’s rent
– Failure to return a security deposit (less documented costs of actual repairs) with interest within 30 days is subject to damages of three times the interest due, plus court costs and reasonable attorney fees
– You could have withheld part of your rent until the necessary repairs were completed
The last point is important. Landlords owe their tenants habitable dwellings. Asking the landlord to make necessary repairs doesn’t make you a bad tenant – it means you understand your rights and are willing to hold the landlord to his/her statutory side of the bargain. Withholding rent is definitely not something to throw around willy-nilly, but it’s a tool in your tenant arsenal that shouldn’t be overlooked.
I’m wondering why the baby-sitting notice choice is between a week and a month? If a week seems unnecessarily skimpy, how about 2 weeks? After all, few paying jobs require 4 weeks notice when somebody resigns.
Swaps are awesome as long as everyone feels they’re fair. My friend and I have a great system. I drop my third grader off at her house in the morning to walk to school with her third grader and kindergartener. I pick up her middle school aged son and daughter with my older daughter and take them home and pick up my third grader in the afternoon. The kids all get along really well so they love having out of school time together.
Personally, I go the other way. The security deposit is a sunk cost–I never assume that I’m going to get it back.
It’s not as though the apartment manager puts the money in escrow, or something. Your security deposit is treated as revenue; when you move out, it’s a cost. They’ve got no incentive to give it to you–they spent the money a LONG time ago.
“ZOMG THATS THIEVERY IMA SUE THEY ASSES!!” No. It’s _freedom_. If they’re going to keep the deposit, then why bother busting your ass cleaning the place? Why worry about moving that 900-pound solid-oak desk? Why bother patching the hole where your friend put his butt through the drywall? (he said that he was “trying to do that thing where you climb by pushing your legs against the opposite wall”. He failed.) Why spend time prying the picture-hangers out of the wall, scraping the alkaline buildup off the sink, swabbing out the microwave, tacking the carpet back down?
I treat the security deposit as the fee I pay for full cleaning and general repair.
@ Claudia & Erin – you’re right, I didn’t think about WHY the mother needed an evening sitter. The reason would put a different spin on things (i.e. – she’s going to night classes at a local college v. polishing her night life – not trying to be too extreme, just giving an example).
@Slum: As another Bostonian, I just wanted to second what Karen said about trash. If you were in any part of the city limits, and probably Cambridge/Somerville, pretty much anything should have been picked up without a fee. I once left the better part of a parade float on my curb (don’t ask). I doubt this knowledge alone makes obtaining the deposit worth the time and effort, but I wanted to corroborate just in case.
@Slum The moral of the story is ALWAYS fill out the condition report (that’s what they’re called here, but it’s the same sort of thing). My flatmates and I live in a slightly run-down terrace in the inner-city. Half the lights don’t work, the stairs are wobbly, there’s a hold load of crap in the back shed, someone apparently tried to ice skate in the bath tub and god only knows what they did to the living room fireplace. But it’s all on the report – as is the fact that the place was filthy when we moved in. They have a copy of the report, we have one, they can’t get you on anything dodgy. We’ve spent the last six months chasing idiot landlord to get a lock fixed (this in a highly dodgy part of town) and just yesterday, VICTORY IN OUR TIME. Go after your bond, in other words.
Slum- I also live in Boston. What Karen said is right, the garbage men do not charge you for hauling away furniture. The only time a garbage related fine is imposed is if the garbage is on the curb too far ahead of the pick up time. He is clearly attempting to rip you off, and it sucks.
But I do have to agree with Sars that you might have to let it go. I also got stiffed out of part of a security deposit (was charged for replacement of window shades that were already broken when I moved in, along with various other imaginary infractions) but I just cut my losses and considered it the price I had to pay for not having to live with my crazy-ass roommate/landlord anymore.
I’m wishing this Vine had occurred about eight months earlier, when I was stiffed on a security deposit. My previous apartment was just as suck-ass as Slum’s (heat not fixed for half the Michigan winter, living room floods on multiple occasions, mean stray dogs all over the property, a call we made about a possible gas leak which was answered two days later) and after much complaint, the building manager lent us a space heater to rectify the fact that they couldn’t get the actual heat to work. The day we moved out we left about 6am and the office wasn’t open for us to return it, so we left a note in the apartment that it was theirs. Well, either the maintenance man who checked out the place took it for himself (very likely—they were all shifty and reputed convicts) or the office just straight-up lied and said it wasn’t there when they checked. Anyway, with NO evidence that we left it there, we just had to wave goodbye to that $300. If I’d had all these helpful links then, I might’ve been able to do something other than write a scathing review at apartments.com.
Oh, and I would agree with Joe Mama about considering the security deposit a hassle-removal fee, except that three of the four apartments I’ve moved into were still filthy, with the walls full of picture holes and the carpets ripe with cat stink. In my current apartment I found a cigarette butt in a crevice in the living room wall. The apartment which was clean on move-in day charged tenants a cleaning fee, which was separate from the security deposit, and worth every penny.
I don’t see babysitting for a friend’s child in the same league with pet sitting. You’re being invited to have influence over the child’s life and well-being, on a regular, ongoing basis. If a person’s been doing it for a year, I think the consideration, if any, is toward the child, who has likely formed attachments. That’s whom I’d consider if I were deciding how much “notice” to give, not Mary Poppins’ friend, who is an adult and should be able to understand the logistics of schedules and things without letting it ruin a friendship.
@Joe Mama: In many states, landlords are required by law to escrow security deposits separately from rent and other revenues. I’m not saying that it’s not the case that a landlord might not follow those laws, but to automatically treat it as a sunk cost because it’s already been spent may not be the best perspective. If you are renting from a reputable landlord/management company, they will not have spent your deposit already. They are just as likely to try to nickel and dime you out of it, in my personal experience, but at least it’s still sitting in an account somewhere, not gone to pay the landscaper when you moved in.
“It’s not as though the apartment manager puts the money in escrow, or something. Your security deposit is treated as revenue; when you move out, it’s a cost. They’ve got no incentive to give it to you–they spent the money a LONG time ago.”
I actually had one landlord who put the security deposit into an interest-earning account for the duration of the time we lived in their house. We cleaned when we moved out, they were satisfied with the place, and actually called me to get my new address because they weren’t sure where they were supposed to send our security deposit + interest. My jaw nearly hit the floor.
No, the security deposit is not revenue, and no the money should NOT have been spent long ago. As someone pointed out above, in Massachusetts, and in NYC, landlords are legally required to put a security deposit in an interest-bearing account; they’re not supposed to spend it. This doesn’t mean that landlords necessarily follow the law, though. As for not getting back your security deposit once you move out, because that’s the cost of not having to clean/repair the apartment, it seems like someone would have to do some pretty hard living to do, say $1,500 worth of damage to a place.
I too had a landlord who was super reasonable – I had lived in the place for 6 years and my cats had absolutely destroyed the carpet (used it as a scratching post, vomited stains, etc.) but he decided that was the lifetime of the carpet anyway and returned my whole deposit, with interest. In fact, I’ve always gotten my security deposit back.
I’m not a landlord but treating a security deposit as a reason to leave a rental a mess just seems wrong to me. And it is an invitation to the landlord to start itemizing the costs of a cleanup and go after you for more than the security deposit. They can charge the going rate for house cleaning, for example. Easily $500 for an apartment and that’s not counting repairs.
I’m not commenting on Slum’s situation at all by the way. In that case, someone above mentioned getting the receipt for the trash removal. In fact, I’m pretty sure the management company is required to provide the receipt as part of the itemized accounting of the security deposit.
Another Bostonian here. And in MA, they MUST segregate your deposit into an interest bearing account. Actually, they were required to send you the account information as to where it was segregated when you first gave it to them, including the specific account number.
And third that there is no garbage fee. The things we’ve left out when we’ve moved is actually quite shocking.
I agree with the advice to write a letter to the property manager outlining the above – it shouldn’t take long to draft, and you should make sure to be specific in the amounts you ask for. I would also cc the property owner so he can see what is going on. You can actually cc a lawyer, or just mention that if this matter doesn’t get satisfactorily resolved, you will be proceeding with legal action. The exact statute reference is M.G.L. Ch. 186, Section 15B (6), as is found here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/186-15b.htm
You can put it in to make things sound more official. And if the choice is to have to get their lawyer involved to read the letter, or pay the security deposit, it should be a no brainer for them.
Count me as another who thinks a week’s notice is not a very friendly thing to do. (Obviously she’d be within her rights, but no one is questioning that. I just don’t think it’s very nice, especially if she hasn’t given her friend any prior indication that she feels taken advantage of. And no, I don’t have kids myself.) However, I read the advice here as essentially giving 2 weeks notice… I guess it depends on what day of the week she says “you get one more and then you’re done”. :)
I’m a lifetime renter, and have lived in seven different apartments in 17 years. My philosophy: “perfect rental history,” “mini-bank,” and “CYA.”
If you plan to rent more than once, or plan to upgrade to a nicer rental place, don’t treat the security deposit as a cleaning fee. My spotless, sterling rental history – especially the cleaning, at which all of my former landlords have been amazed, though my mother wouldn’t be impressed – has outweighed my cruddy *credit rating* and gotten me apartments. Your treatment of the apartment will be something a potential landlord will ask about – especially for upscale modern or well-maintained vintage buildings – and the way you left the place will be freshest in your previous landlord’s mind.
Also, are there seriously any states that don’t *require* your landlord to do the escrow thing and pay interest on your security deposit? I think of the security deposit as a nice little savings account for me that I can’t touch right now (a GOOD thing,) but which, when paid back, will cover at least one month of my rent at the new place, plus a good chunk of the moving costs. It’s standard to pay two months’ rent as a deposit around here, so I’m looking at $1300 plus interest if I ever move out – and I’m in year 5 already. That’s decidedly worth two days of cleaning (and, of course, not destroying the apartment while living in it, but, well, hello, grownup.)
As for the CYA part -EDUCATE YOURSELF and start out right. Tenants’ rights organizations and rental law information are out there, and you NEED to find them and be aware of your rights and obligations. Also, many cities have “problem landlord/property” listings – find them, and avoid them at all costs. Shop around. Read leases carefully. I know that economy and availability don’t always allow a lot of choice, but avoiding known problems and shady-looking situations when possible is always the best way to start.
Then, once you have a place, be a responsible tenant and watch out for yourself. Follow the terms of your lease, rules about garbage, etc. Insist on and keep copies of inspection forms, document requests for maintenance, take photos of damage that was there before you moved in, mail these things to yourself and keep the postmarked envelope sealed for proof of date, whatever – give yourself every advantage.
…and by the way, the inspection form/non-destruction thing goes for dorm rooms too. At least at my school, you got charged for damage to your room and furnishings, and potential landlords will talk to college residential services people if you are just out of school and have no other rental history. You don’t want your fledgling rental history to include trashing dorm rooms.
End of lecture.
Chiming in once again as a former apartment manager…
I really, really, really could not stand that attitude of “I paid a security deposit, so go ahead and set fire to the blinds!” The shit I had to clean up and the crap people left behind were both amazing and infuriating (hello, assholes who left PINE BRANCHES IN THE FRIDGE, bright yellow walls, and a busted out window frame from where they attached a PULLEY SYSTEM to lower their Salvation Army crap from the third floor window rather than carry it down the stairs!) Believe me, it’s incredibly easy to cause 1,500.00 of damage to a one bedroom place, between the completely trashed carpets, broken glass in the sink, water damage in the bathroom, and untrained cats. Not to mention the ant infestation that took over one wall because one renter routinely left old cat food all over the floor. That deposit covers not only damages, but cleaning as well, and believe me, I charged up the ying-yang for having to clean up after some of the jackholes who moved out of that place.
Whew! Sorry for the rant. It wasn’t directed at Slum, whose landlord sounds like a real prize, or any other posters with bad experiences, but at people who seem like it’s their mission in life to completley drag down their living quarters to “craphole with Mom Maid Service.”
“Also, are there seriously any states that don’t *require* your landlord to do the escrow thing and pay interest on your security deposit?”
@Liz at Minneapolis, as far as I know, Oklahoma doesn’t. I usually got my deposit back, but I’m pretty sure I never received interest.
Thankfully I put all that behind me when I bought my house. Now my only worries are fixing the foundation and not being foreclosed on. *grin*
@ Anlyn – I knew there was a reason I stayed in Minnesota, through the snow and cold…
Oh, and we also appear to have gotten rid of Norm Coleman in favor of Al Franken, knock wood.
re: escrow accounts for deposits, CA doesn’t require them either. I had to deposit more than $5k for my last apartment, which sat in THEIR savings account, accruing interest for 6 years (and, of course, when we moved they tried to nickel-and-dime us for every last cent, which is a whole other Oprah)
re: pregnancy – I work with a lot of freelancers and I don’t think any of them have mentioned anything until they were 6 or 7 months along, probably because they were afraid that we’d let them go for some reason. The people that we have “friendly” relationships with might have mentioned earlier in everyday conversation, but the ones who are more work-only folks kept it to themselves and gave us maybe 6 weeks notice that they’d be unavailable from X date to X date. I always thought that it was kind of a smart move, so that the work keeps flowing in, instead of someone (on our end) thinking “oh, she’s going on leave in a month, her head is somewhere else, let’s give this project to Betty.” But I also work in a remote workplace environment (Giant Corporation) where we rarely/never see co-workers, so it’s not unexpected that someone would have major news that they don’t share. Plus, if they never see you anyway, your time off could be for a big vacation or something, it’s not really any of their business, unless you want to tell them. Just my 2 cents.
I had one bad renting experience and that has made me into a paranoid renter that follows very specific rules. I always inspect the apartment one week before I move in. I don’t move in if I find any issues. Even minor breakages or dirt. I think that if the landlord knows you are coming they would have made the effort to have the place pristine and if they offer up excuses I just walk.
I never pay before I physically move in .I always pay by check and I get a receipt at the same time. I get the landlord to sign an agreement about any security deposit that is detailed and includes when it is to be returned and what form the deposit will take and the interest accrued.
The landlord usually has their own but I never like to use it because it is always vague and it always includes sections of housing code hard to confirm or makes no sense in context.
I consider the security deposit a kind of loan by extortion and I make sure it always favours me.
I always film the apartment the day I move in and the day I move out in the presence of the landlord with them on film , it takes about twenty minutes and can save you thousands if you have to go to court. This was the only thing I did right during that bad rental and it saved me $1200 in small claims a year and a half later.
A good rental and security deposit document is necessary and should be designed by you even if you have to modify the landlords own document and have them sign and date the changes.
The most important thing is to have that inspection a week before you move in. It will tell you everything you need to know about how your landlord responds to maintenance of the apartments The second most important is to never give cash .
To me, the babysitting thing…what you should do is not necessarily the same as what you have the right to do. Of course, the babysitting is a favor; you can give however little notice you want and be within your rights. The appropriate amount of notice isn’t determined by how you treat a business associate; it’s determined by how you treat your friends.
The letter says she and the other friend *offered* to babysit when Mom-Friend lost her regular sitter. There’s no indication of how long anyone intended that arrangement to last. In fact, I regularly stay with my best friend’s kids. It’s not four hours every other week on a regular schedule, but I’d guess that’s about the right amount on average, once you add in longer times and shorter times (and that’s two kids). If they asked me to stay with the kids for four hours every two weeks, I’d do that, no problem. We’re friends. They have me over to dinner, they give me a lift now and then because I don’t have a car…it works out very well for everyone, and I love their kids. All I’m saying is that it’s not necessarily a situation where the Mom-Friend is taking advantage of anyone; if they’ve stressed how much they love the kid, she may assume that they genuinely enjoy spending time with him/her and aren’t anxious for her to get other care.
If I had freely offered to take on four hours of babysitting every other week for a friend, I would absolutely feel obligated to give at least a month’s notice that I didn’t want to do it anymore. I just…would feel like it wasn’t a very nice thing to do to leave the friend without child care with only five working days to find more, if my only reason were that I was tired of it and this was the first time I’d told her. (I agree that it also makes sense to consider what the time is for; whether Mom goes off to book club or work or what.) Obviously, if you say, “Hey, how about you start looking for someone,” and you ask for a progress report in two weeks and she’s done nothing, then you get more emphatic, yes. But if you haven’t said a word to her yet, then I’d personally go with “I’ve really loved spending time with [Toddler], but sadly, my schedule is full enough that I’m not going to be able to do it after [date].” And then see what happens. Don’t assume that your friend will try to take advantage of you just because she’s let you continue doing something you offered to do.
@Slum: I live in Boston and had landlord problems in Boston. Previous posters are right about the garbage laws and the deposit being placed in an interest-bearing account. Furthermore, the deposit has to be placed in escrow and the landlord has to give you notice of this and an account number within 30 days of the start of your tenancy. If not, you’re entitled to immediate return of your entire deposit. If the landlord doesn’t give you written documentation of the damages he’s subtracting from your deposit, including receipts, then you’re entitled to return of the entire deposit plus triple damages. When my previous landlord was being problematic, a demand letter citing the appropriate statue (I think it was 186) and sent by registered mail showed her I was serious and got me my money back. Good luck.
Okay, I feel really really snarky at a few of the people who are like, BUT WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN about Mary’s situation.
I think that two weeks should be sufficient. Most big cities have babysitting network services, any reputable one of which will be bonded and/or licensed and insured.
To those who feel like a month is better… the parent(s) should have spent their freebie-sitting time looking for and vetting a new sitter.
Lots of really really good advice here about the security deposit… I may have my own Vine question about neighbors and cat problems soon. Good luck everyone.
“To those who feel like a month is better… the parent(s) should have spent their freebie-sitting time looking for and vetting a new sitter.”
Ideally, yes. And if my goal were to impose consequences on my friend for failing to handle the situation correctly, then this is the standard I’d use. But otherwise, the standard (to me) is, what will Mary feel good about having done? And if it were me, I would not feel good about two weeks; I’d feel better about a month. She only babysits once every two weeks, not every day. Two weeks versus a month is pretty much the difference between doing it once more and twice more. It’s not that big a deal; you do it one extra time and she has an extra two weeks to look. To me, that would be worth it. To you, it might not be. I don’t think that means anyone is begging you to think of the children, not that I think that thinking of the children would be inappropriate.
Another MA resident here – had similar situation with our last landlord, and scared him to death with our official letter calling him out on the 30 days notice and lack of itemized list with receipts. His crazy wife had accused us of stealing the bathroom faucets! Anyway, we got paid in full, plus interest. Check out the web, know your rights, and send a certified letter cc:ing the owner. Or, in other words, what everyone else said.