The Vine: July 10, 2008
Sorry for the delay; my parents’ internet absolutely refused to work on my computer yesterday.(“Is it plugged in?””YES, DAD.IT IS.GOD.”)Anyway: Vine!
My stepmother organised my dad’s funeral. She and my father were de facto partners for seven and a half years. She chose exactly what she wanted and didn’t ask my sister or me for any input. The day before the funeral I begged for a song each and a photo montage — she eventually agreed. When asked about costs she stated over and over that she and Dad had sorted them out between them and not to worry about it.
The service was lovely. I don’t think that we could have done a better job though we would have made difference choices about the date, the venue and the program.
After Dad’s funeral she called my sister and me and informed us that we were the beneficiaries and the executors of Dad’s estate and we were responsible for the funeral costs. When I went to the bank to inform them of Dad’s death and have his accounts frozen they informed me that she had taken half the money from my Dad’s account just before and after his death. The money would have covered his funeral costs in total — the remaining money will cover half of his funeral cost. When Dad’s partner told my sister that we needed to pay for the funeral, she told her that part of the reason she couldn’t pay for it was because she couldn’t access Dad’s account as it is fraud — the next day she withdrew more money.
When we went to get Dad’s personal items (we’d asked for a jumper of his each) she had placed the things of his that she didn’t want in a room at the back of her house. They were strewn across the room though the clothes (from what I could tell most of the clothes that he owned) were packed neatly in boxes. I asked her about a table that my aunt had given my father and that my father had restored and indicated to my sister that he wanted her to have. My dad’s partner became enraged and insisted that it was a wedding gift from my aunt (they were never married and my aunt insists that it was a gift to my father only). I said I wasn’t sure and left it at that.
That night I received two abusive late night (drunken) phone calls from my dad’s partner talking about suing me and being entitled to my dad’s estate (the items she’d given me consist of things of a personal but not monetary value — papers, letters, books) and she said she was going to throw the remaining items of Dad’s that she didn’t want out on the sidewalk. She also had a friend of hers call my 84-year-old grandmother and tell her that we had packed Dad’s things without respect and had simply hurled them in the car. This wasn’t true — I adored my Dad and nursed things on my lap all the way home to make sure they were all right.
Through out my father’s illness I along with the rest of his family gave him and his partner considerable financial support. She received a pension for caring for him and he received an illness benefit from the government and their income was around $1,000 per fortnight. She owns the home that they lived in, and when they met my father sold the boat he’d been living in and they used that money to travel overseas and domestically. The government is paying my stepmother $3,000 to pay for the funeral costs and other expenses.
My father owned a small hobby boat at the time of his death and this is now up for sale. It may be worth over the funeral costs but we are not sure if it will sell, as it is an antique vessel and difficult to operate.
The funeral home has informed me that as my sister and I did not sign anything relating to the funeral costs or commission (we weren’t invited to attend her meetings with them) we are not responsible for the costs of the funeral and my father’s partner is. I feel that the estate should pay half of the cost of the funeral from the remaining money in my dad’s account but I am not sure about the rest. My sister thinks that our stepmother should pay the remaining amount but I’m not sure. My parents (my mother and my stepfather) think that my sister and I should go halves in the remaining costs to save the aggravation of dealing with her. I don’t know what to do.
I’m sorry this is so long.
Shannon
Dear Shannon,
It’s confusing as to what money your dad’s partner has already taken, but at least in the States, she’s really not entitled to that, or anything else — at least not automatically — because they weren’t married.I’m not saying long-term partners should get nothing (although based on the behavior you’ve shared with me, Partner is not really making a great case for herself).I’m saying this is often what the law decides by default, at least here.
But it sounds like you aren’t in the States, and it also sounds like Partner is claiming that she and your dad had some sort of arrangement between them to cover costs, plus she says your dad made you and your sister the executors and beneficiaries, but you don’t mention anyone contacting you about that in an official capacity, or having seen your father’s will yourself.
So, before you do anything, get a probate attorney on the case.You need a lawyer who specializes in wills, trusts, and estates, and you also need someone to represent you in handling Partner’s claims.I get the feeling she’s going to keep coming at you with requests for money and accusations of mishandling your father’s property, but if I have it right, she’s got no standing with either the money or his personal belongings — if he left everything to you, that’s that, and if she’s interfering with that in any way (taking cash from his accounts; giving his things to charity), I believe the estate can sue her for that.
You may not want to get involved in an action of that type, and I wouldn’t blame you; you may just want to give her the money she’s asking for so she’ll go away, and I wouldn’t blame you for that either.But as far as the funeral expenses go, again, she seems to have helped herself to the necessary amount — illegally — and in any case the funeral home is expecting her to pay, so…let her pay.If she’s really raising hell, inform her that you’ve got an attorney handling the estate, and she’ll have to bill the estate if she wants the money back (that…she already appropriated).That tends to shut up the people who are full of shit and just want to take advantage; if she has a legitimate claim, well, she’ll get repaid in time.
But get an attorney, now, today.She can clarify who is entitled to what, and on what timeline — and she can back Partner off your family with a crisply worded letter to the effect of “stop harassing my clients for payment it’s not clear you’re owed.”But this is why people set up estates to begin with, to avoid nonsense like this.Hire a lawyer and get everyone on the same page, whether they want to be there or not.
Hi Sars,
I have a dog, “Spot,”who has been my most constant companion for years and years.She is welcome almost everywhere I go because she is extraordinarily well-behaved and reliable — she’s a certified therapy dog and we used to volunteer together at nursing homes before she aged out of the job.She is 15 years old now, and is generally still the calm and smart dog she has been the whole time I’ve had her.
A few months ago, my husband and I found a two-day-old injured kitten. I didn’t know anything about cats, and I took her to the vet, who told me that she was too small and weak to be taken to a shelter.I decided to raise the orphan kitten myself, and went through the whole process of feedings every two hours and the like.The kitten has grown strong and healthy, and we decided to keep her.
Spot was really terrific about “Salem” for the first few months she was with us — she mostly ignored her, and still played with us and went for walks and did her own thing.
After Salem turned about five months old, though, Spot completely lost patience with her.She barks at her over and over again, even when she isn’t doing anything (and Spot never used to bark at all, except when the doorbell rang, and then only twice). I’m not saying Salem doesn’t deserve it sometimes, but she adores Spot and follows her around and has learned certain things, like that Spot doesn’t want her touching her toys.Lots of the time Salem just looks at Spot funny or something, and Spot completely loses it and snarls and growls and chases her around.
We try to give them time apart; we will often bring one or the other of them to work with us, since we run our own business.It helps, but it doesn’t solve everything.
I’m worried about Spot’s peace of mind; she’s in her later years and deserves to have a happy restful time.I worry that Salem is going to get hurt.And I’m also upset about how tense our household has gotten.When we first took Salem in, it was with the idea that we might try to find a permanent home for her.We got very attached, though, and Spot did so well with her at first that we decided to keep her.Then it all went to hell.
Salem is nine months old now.Is there still time to integrate both animals into a happy household? Spot isn’t jealous of her; it’s entirely a dynamic between the two of them, leaving the people out of the equation.I know Hobey was an adult when you brought Little Joe home.Do you have any tips?
The Fur Is Flying
Dear Fly,
The difference there is that, before Joe came along, the Hobe really seemed to need company.If I spent the night elsewhere, I’d come home to a het-up little orange head case, with the running around and the wailing and the “Pay attention to me…don’t touch me!But pay attention to me!But I hate you!”Total only-child syndrome.Hobey doesn’t like Little Joe that much — read: “at all” — but he needed another creature in the house full-time so he wouldn’t get all neurotic.Spot doesn’t seem like she needed anyone else in her “pack,” but she got a little sister anyway, and she’s not into it.
I would like to hope that you can work things out — the image of Salem following Spot around all “wanna play with me? huh? do ya do ya? how ’bout now?” is killing me over here.And Spot didn’t hate Salem at first, which suggests that maybe it’s just a teenage-feline problem; I can tell you from physically painful experience that the same spazzy playing that is so adorable/hilarious when they’re bitty is annoying/bloody when they get bigger.And if you haven’t had Salem fixed yet, you may have an airborne-hormone issue in play.
But the vet can give you more pertinent advice than I can, because I don’t have dog experience to offer, so call her up and tell her what you just told me — Spot didn’t mind Salem at first, but has developed a major hate-on for the cat, and is there any obedience training or behavioral technique the vet could recommend.See what she says, take any tips she gives, and if nothing’s working, you may have to consider placing Salem elsewhere.I know you don’t like the idea, but if your priority is to let Spot enjoy her twilight years unmolested, you may not have a choice.
But talk to your vet first.She’s no doubt heard a variation on this many times.
Is it ever okay to insult someone’s child?
I’m five months pregnant, and let’s just say I don’t run with the most child-friendly of crowds. In addition, it is a crime akin to murder to take yourself too seriously and not be able to “take a joke”; we’re constantly ripping on each other. But the jokes at my child’s expense, I feel, have gone too far. They are mainly in reference to the unplanned nature of my pregnancy (for example, when I complain about a new discomfort or lament my alcoholic hiatus, I hear “Shut up, you don’t get to complain, because you did this to yourself and chose not to have an abortion,”) or the implication that my child will be stupid/ugly/insert undesirable trait because of who his or her father is (he is not well-liked).
Once or twice, I’ll be a sport and let it slide, but after a five-minute barrage of it, well. I’d like to talk about something else. It’s not like I’m constantly complaining or demanding that everyone fawn over me — it happens at the slightest MENTION of my condition, and occasionally entirely out of left field. And it really bothers me. If I understand my basic manners correctly, “congratulations” is the only appropriate response to a friend’s pregnancy. You just don’t make fun of someone’s kid, ya know? I find it disrespectful and kind of sexist, as if this was such an easy decision. (I should point out that it’s ONLY men who I hear it from — even the most baby-hating of women I know still manage to smile and nod and change the subject if the pregnancy happens to come up in conversation.)
One friend in particular has gotten VERY up-in-arms that I’m hurt by it. He feels very strongly that I have no right to be upset. I’m not sure why, but I can speculate all the live-long day that he just believes he should be able to treat me (and the rest of his friends) however he wants and I can’t expect any better because I never have before, and that if I don’t want to hear his opinion (or anyone else’s) I should “make better choices.” (As if I’m not an adult, fully capable of running my own life. As if anybody asked him what he thinks of my choices. As if….)
I’m at the point, obviously, where I can’t see the situation objectively, so I need a third-party perspective. Am I really asking that much of my friends that they support me unconditionally and keep their mouths shut if they can’t say something nice? Is their behavior okay? I will gladly concede if it turns out I’ve been a hormonal ass, but I doubt that’s the case.
Your ruling, O Wise One.
Baby Mama
Dear Baby,
Get new friends.It’s fine if some of your friends aren’t into kids, and it’s fine if your circle plays rough with the teasing, but there is in fact a limit to that, and “if you didn’t want to deal with morning sickness, you should have had an abortion” is outside that limit, particularly because you’ve made it clear to them that that kind of remark upsets you.I mean, it’s not your kid they’re insulting.It’s you.
The one friend who’s all bent out of shape is right, in a way; he believes he can treat you however he wants because that’s exactly what you let him, and the rest of them, do.You don’t tell them to treat your pregnancy with respect, or to keep their comments about the baby’s father to themselves.You don’t give their nastiness any consequences.Start.Tell them to shut the fuck up with the abortion references and the superior attitude towards your choices; they show you some respect, or you’re out.
It’s not about unconditional support; if they have legitimate concerns, they should feel comfortable voicing those.But your “friendship” with these people doesn’t seem to have anything to do with legitimate concerns — it’s apparently based on getting trashed and saying bitchy shit to each other, and if you aren’t into that anymore, they don’t seem to know what to do with you instead.I’m all for giving my peeps some shit over a round of pints, but that isn’t all there is to the relationships.I don’t think you can say the same, in which case it’s time for you to move on.
Get some friends who value you, your decisions, your lifestyle, and your feelings based on you, not on your willingness to tolerate insensitivity.On the plus side, you won’t have to tell this group to shape up or ship out, because in four months, you won’t have time for them anymore even if you do still like them.The ones that check in with you, offer to come by and burp the baby, and make the effort, those are the ones you keep.The rest of them, you can leave at the bar.You won’t miss them.Don’t make any more friends like them.
Tags: cats friendships kids the fam
Shannon, I’m so sorry for your loss. Even loving families go off the rails to some degree when they lose a loved one. Grief does funny things to people. Sars is right, until you see the will you can’t know what it says, and you *need* that lawyer. Until then, hide the money that’s left & avoid that toxic partner person as much as possible.
Fly, would it be possible to keep Salem at the workplace? My sister had to do that in a similar situation & it worked out quite well!
BabyMama, your friends are assholes. Please please do not let them interact with your baby!
Baby Mama: Whoa…reacting to a complaint about pregnancy with an abortion comment? Dude.
Sorry for my Keanu-Reeves-style response, but I just can’t imagine saying something like that to a pregnant friend.
You shouldn’t have to play the good sport while they trash you and a situation that is undoubtedly pretty damn difficult for you. These assholes are not your friends. All it will take is one “your baby is ugly” comment after he/she is born to make that perfectly clear to you.
Fur is Flying should watch a show called “It’s Me or the Dog.” It’s on Animal Planet and it’s actually a pretty good show. I don’t own a dog (only have cats) and there is some very good insight to the behaviors of dogs and what they can mean in human terms. I’ve never seen the Dog Whisperer so I can’t comment on that show but the advice that the “dog specalist” on IMOTD is insightful and practical and seems to be very effective. I’ve seen some terrible dog behavior get modified.
Shannon — The one bit of Sars’ advice that I want to emphasize is that until you consult with a lawyer, don’t do anything with any money or possessions of your father’s that you may have been given access to. Being an executor or administrator of an estate is not something that just happens — it generally requires a filing with a court or at least some kind of clerk. Until that’s done, you don’t really have any legal right to do anything with your dad’s stuff.
Also, while the funeral home sounds like they’re being reasonable, I would hold onto some money from your dad’s estate to pay that bill until you are certain it’s been taken care of by his partner. In most U.S. states, the assets in an estate are to be used first to pay the cost of funeral expenses, then the costs of the deceased’s final illness, and then for other purposes (either paying off other debts or going to heirs). So even though you didn’t sign anything, it may be that the funeral home has the right to come after the estate for that bill if your dad’s partner doesn’t pay it. (But again, a good lawyer will be able to help you figure out what your local law requires.)
Finally, if you can’t afford a lawyer, you may be able to find a group that will give you some legal counsel for no charge — check with your local bar association or a local law school to see what kind of volunteer programs they have that could put you in touch with the right person.
Baby Mama, who the hell are you hanging around with? The Manson Family? Seriously, it would take only one “hah hah have an abortion or quit complaining” snark for me to dump the whole sorry lot of them. And that “friend” of yours who basically thinks he can treat you any way he pleases at any time is not a friend, he’s a sociopath.
I’ve never been pregnant, especially with (it sounds like) no support from the father, and the idea of giving up your whole social system and being alone during this difficult time is hard and scary, but you and your baby deserve better than this! Forget friendship, basic human decency requires better behavior. There are better people out there, I promise.
Congratulations on the wonderful news of your pregnancy. I hope you are happy and healthy, and that your baby will be too.
Shannon: I completely agree with all of the advice to get a lawyer, because they can help you with this stuff, but I had one question – you mention that partner had taken money out of “dad’s” account before/after he died. Was it a joint account with her name on it or just his account? Because if it was a joint account, it may not be considered part of his “estate” and automatically passes to the surviving account-holder (which would be partner). As such, she didn’t so much take “dad’s” money as her own money. If she wasn’t a joint account holder, I wonder how she was able to access the account at all, and it could be considered theft.
(I only ask this because, in my family, we always make sure to have a second account holder on our accounts for emergencies and such – I was the “joint” account holder on my grandfather’s account after my mom died, so that when he passed away, I specifically didn’t have to wait to go through probate to have access to those funds – of course, I’m a generally honest and fair person, so even though that money was “mine” and not part of the estate, I still used those funds almost exclusively to pay funeral costs, settle his bills, pay fees on his condo until we sold it and then split the rest between myself and my brother, who were his only surviving heirs)
Baby Mama, your friends are dicks. They don’t have to fall all over themselves or volunteer to babysit, but they need to chill out already with the so called jokes.
That type of look-at-me-I’m-so-edgy-and-rude humor reeks of immaturity.
I agree with Sars 100% on getting new friends, if only for the fact that if they stay in the picture and fail to shut up already, your child could overhear their idiotic remarks when s/he gets older.
@”Pay attention to me…don’t touch me! But pay attention to me! But I hate you!”@
I can’t stop laughing about this because it’s exactly how my cat behaved when I’d come home from a trip or something.
And Baby Mama, it may be time to get new friends if they’re going to say hurtful and mean things like that. That kind of behavior is unacceptable- especially people who say they are your “friends.”
@Fur is Flying
‘And if you haven’t had Salem fixed yet, you may have an airborne-hormone issue in play.’
Yes, yes, oh so very yes. In any case, if the cat isn’t fixed yet, get it done to stave off possible breast cancer. I waited on getting my girls fixed because they were only indoors with no boys in the picture, and then I lost one of them to cancer at only 8 years old. The chances for cancer goes up with each heat cycle they go through.
And not that the vine/nation doesn’t have awesome people with good ideas- but go check out some pet forums. I did the reverse of what you tried- I introduced my pup to my 9 year old cat (with good results even though he’s a crazy herding breed), so I’m no help with this one, but I’m guessing there are a bunch of folks who have done this and can offer insight. You may have to work a little to find the best one, but it’ll be worth it in the future if you have other issues. I have a forum for my breed of dog and it’s super handy when I’m wondering why he’s being a spaz. I’m a Cesar Millan watcher, and haven’t seen him deal too much with cat to dog things and you’d hate to have to wait a while for the best episode to teach you peace and harmony, so try the forums for fast results.
BabyMama, the next time one of these jerks spouts off with a comment about your child will be ugly and stupid so you should have had an abortion, you should come back, with, “Well, YOUR mother didn’t have an abortion so why should I?”
Fly – I have dogs and cats, none of whom have reacted to each other like this, but I’ve dealt with various behavior things and training w/ both. It sounds like the problem here is largely the dog, so:
I think you’ll have to teach your dog that the cat is important to YOU. Praise her all the livelong day when she is nice to the cat, or even just ignoring her. As soon as the dog starts acting innapropriately, take the cat with you and leave the room. When you go back in, bring the cat as well. You and the cat are a package deal, and your dog needs to respect that from you, the “pack leader.”
Withholding affection/attention from most dogs is as severe a “punishment” as they’ll ever need, and it sounds like your dog is a wonderful companion. Learning to tolerate the cat is her newest trick, and it sounds like she’ll do it admirably – with a little help and patience from mama. :)
Shannon – I’m so sorry for your loss. There is one thing that I would add to Sars’ and LTG’s advice about finding a lawyer, and that is to make sure that the lawyer has some experience in estate _disputes_. Some good friends had an issue with an estate a couple of years ago, and recently found that a lawyer specializing in estate disputes knew exactly what to do about this sort of thing, whereas the lawyer they had already spent several thousand dollars on was really only experienced in drafting wills. Your dad’s partner does no seem at all reliable, and could cause you a lot more damage down the line. I hope things work out for you.
Baby Mama – Congratulations on your pregnancy! And just a note on your “friends”: when did being pro-choice suddenly mean getting to judge people who _don’t_ have abortions? By the way, if you’re looking for friends who will be supportive and respect your choice, it seems like a lamaze class might be one place to start meeting people.
Fur should definitely talk to her vet since there could be some “elderly” dog issues that only seem to be related to your new cat. One possible fix is DAP (dog appeasing pheromone; http://www.amazon.com/ P-Appeasing-Pheromone-Electric-Diffuser/dp/B00076KPPW/ ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_b), which is sort of Feliway for dogs. I don’t want to know how they get the stuff (I’d LIKE to picture a room full of yarn, kibble, and sunny patches, where scientists in lab coats and gloves somehow bottle the happiness from contented cats, but I’ve seen The Matrix…), but Patricia McConnell (host of NPR’s “Calling All Pets” http://www.wpr.org/pets/) swears by the stuff.
There was a woman in my extended group of friends who had an unplanned pregnancy recently. And even though she was probably not in ideal circumstances to have a baby, I couldn’t believe how insensive some of the others in the group were about just stating outright that she should have had an abortion (although not to her face — not sure if that’s better or worse).
When asked about it, I said, “I’m pro-choice. I think women should be allowed to make their own reproductive decisions even when not eveybody else agrees.” That shut a few of them up. Gah, some people.
Fur – Oddly enough, Spot’s behavior sounds like how an older dog will sometimes behave when a young dog is being a bit too rambunctious. It’s sort of the dog equivalent of “Enough, already!” Usually, the younger dog will get it and modify her behavior, but given that Salem is a cat, I’m guessing the same sort of ingrained pack behavior does not apply.
As Sars, suggested, I would start by talking to a vet. It’s possible this is a health issue. If that is not the case, you can try teaching Spot to ignore Salem. Try to set up a situation where Spot and Salem are together, but not so close that Spot is reacting. While Spot is ignoring Salem, give Spot some tasty treat (like chicken) and praise her. Hopefully, Spot will see Salem as the bearer of tasty treats instead of a menace.
On the aforementioned “Its Me or the Dog” show, one of the training techniques is to give the troubled dog treats in the presence of what it doesn’t like. One show had a bunch of little dogs that kept picking on the big dog (biting and hanging on him). They did some sessions where the big dog came in the room, everyone got treats. Big dog left, no treats. Big dog return, treats! The other thing is to leave the dog when they misbehave (like explained by Krissa).
On the other hand, you mention that your dog is 15. Wow! Has his behavior changed in other ways? Just wondering if he might be developing some senile or dementia behaviors. A vet should be able to tell you want to look for if its an age issue.
Shannon: I’m so sorry for your loss. I can only echo the sound advice already given by Sarah, LTG and Ann. Rely upon it.
@Baby Mama,
There are some really wonderful people in the world. Seek them out, please, because you deserve better friends than the asshats you describe in your letter.
Congratulations on your pregnancy. :D
Shannon, like many others on the Vine–I’m terribly sorry for your loss. It is never easy to lose a parent.
Everything that everyone else has said here is valid, but I’m writing specifically to second what LTG said about looking up your local bar association or law school if you can’t afford to hire a lawyer at the regular rate. This is a very good idea, one that a lot of people in need of legal advice don’t think of. Lawyers can be expensive, but there should be ways to find someone who can help you out either pro bono or at a reduced rate. The situation you have with your father’s estate and his partner absolutely requires a lawyer familiar with wills and estate disputes. I hope that you can find a good one.
It’s possible that Fur is Flying’s pets got into a scuffle that she isn’t aware of. Not unlikely since Salem is basically between a kitten and an adolescent cat, and boy are they annoying sometimes (although in my experience they grow up and settle down, and you forget how they get until you decide to get a second cat =P).
As for Baby Mama: honestly, this is an opportunity to get a whole entire circle of friends. Sign up for Lamaze and make friends there. Then when the baby is born, you could always sign up for those mother and baby exercise programs and make more friends there.
Baby Mama, I’ve got a circle of friends who tends to get pretty overboard with the ‘we all hate each other’ type of humour–calling each other fat, ugly etc. But every so often it’ll go over the line, or someone will hit on a really sensitive spot for someone else–no pregnancies in my group but I can see some people thinking sort of thing is ‘funny’.
I’d think that for some people, they are probably just asses and you should drop them–like that one guy. But others might honestly not realize they’re crossing the line, especially if other people are making the same remarks. I’d give people a chance to cool it.
My reaction when things get over the top in my group is to say, “Ok, can we drop this now? It’s getting kind of old.” That usually gets the message across. often just snapping something back at someone will make them take notice. The people who stop the comments after this are still my friends. Those who don’t, I try to avoid.
Baby Mama, those people are not your friends. At all. And I know plenty of people who don’t like children who have NEVER told a pregnant woman, “well, your back wouldn’t hurt if you’d had an abortion.” That is not normal behavior. It is not teasing. Those aren’t jokes. A joke is…I don’t know. You complaining about gaining a bunch of weight and someone saying, ‘maybe the baby will weigh 20 pounds.’ NOT ‘I think you’re stupid and will say so at great length.’ Nothing pisses me off more than people who are unbelievably rude and then couch it all as “it was just a joke.” (…Don Imus).
Also, since this doesn’t seem to be the case with all your friends, just cut these boys out of your life and hang out with actual human beings. I find myself a little curious about how old you are–the level of immaturity of these guys is so high that I can only assume that they’re 12. And stupid.
Baby Mama:
Congratulations on your pregnancy!
That they’re problably dicks and you deserve better? Totally agree with the previous posters.
Since you mention, though, that you have an established pattern in your group of being kind of harsh, and with the reveltation that this is only men doing the picking, it sounds less like they’re being hateful and more like they’re just being morons. They probably don’t know how to relate to you like this, since your new circumstances will change the nature of your friendhip with them (regardless of what it was before). Tell them they’re hurting your feelings, that you’ve actually grown quite attached to your baby, and that this particular line of teasing is not okay. Set a boundary, and give them a chance to respect it. If they can’t see their way to respecting you and supporting you, then you have your answer, but if you’ve never told them that you expect that kind of treatment… well, the situation might be salvagable, if you want it to be.
Baby Mama _ just reiterating what Sars says about the baby changing your friendship needs. You’ll probably find yourself hanging out more with people with babies because you’ll be into doing the same things such as having coffee in the park and also so you can swap tips and advice with each other.
I didn’t meet anyone at my pre-natal classes, because I apparently accidentally signed up to the one for morons who monopolised the whole class asking really specific questions when the answer was quite clearly “on the off chance that happens, call the midwife”. But I did meet some cool people through pregnancy yoga and I don’t know if you have Mother’s Groups in the US, but they are well recommended. Which I guess is a way of saying you may have to try a few different mums and bubs things before you meet people with whom you have something in common other than babies
And really, if your current friends try to justify their behaviour by saying they’re just jokes, you might like to point out that in your experience, jokes are actually funny. Telling you you should have had an abortion? Not so much.
Shannon-
I don’t know what the estate laws are in your area, but just recently having had to deal with my own father’s death and the ensuing crapola, I heartily second (third, fourth?) the advice to hire a specialized attorney.
Being the next-of-kin is similar to being the executor/executrix of a will in many areas, but not the exact same. If your dad didn’t have an actual will that detailed how he wanted his estate handled, Partner is a little off her rocker to expect anything to be done specifically to his (or more likely her) “wishes”. She has no legal standing to any funds or personal items that were not gifted to her before his demise and can be sued for their return or value by the estate.
As Sars so astutely pointed out, a sternly worded letter from a well-versed lawyer can do wonders to call someone on their bullshit. Most people only act like asses when they think they can get away with it.
Baby Mama, please don’t think that anyone here is dismissing how hard it is to let go of people you’ve hung out with and relied on, even when they are being total dicks to you…I just had to say goodbye to someone I have been close to for years, and it took another friend to get all up in my face and say “How can you be FRIENDS with THAT??” before I really accepted that her toxic behavior needed some serious consequences. It’s tough to let go, even when the writing is on the wall.
It will be hard, but remember, you DO deserve real friends. You do! Your kid does too. Treat yourself to some people who will be understanding today, and have the grace to hold the baby while you dig out your keys six months from now… because even “real friends that don’t like kids” will pull that off for you. That’s the “real friends” part in action.
Unfortunately, that type of friend does not grow on trees, but they are out there. I wish a herd of them would knock your door down tomorrow and offer to drive you baby shopping!
@ Jennifer: I’m 21 years old. Every one of these people is at least drinking age. Seriously.
I suppose I should have made it more clear that I HAVE said, many times, “That hurts, knock it off,” and that’s when it became an issue for them, especially the particular friend I mentioned in my question. (With whom I’ve been extremely tight since I was 15 — “hard and scary” to get rid of, you betcha.) But it’s good to know that I’m not wrong here.
@Shannon: Okay, I don’t really have much to add to what everyone else has already said (“get a probate lawyer who has experience with estate disputes”), but I would add that it would probably be a very good idea to pack *everything* that belonged to your dad away in a storage bin, and double-check that any accounts he owned are frozen. Take the boat off the market, at the same time.
If Partner asks why you’re doing this, just say that you’re trying to make sure that when the lawyer asks, you and Partner can show that everything is accounted for, and that you can both prove that nothing “vanished” between now and when the will is read and settled.
I say, say “both” because that way she doesn’t have (as much) reason to throw a hissy fit – after all, it’s for her protection too, right? That way no one can accuse her of doing things she shouldn’t with the estate? Not that anyone *would*, of course.
(Seriously. Do NOT come out and say something like “I know you stole money from Dad’s account and that you did X, Y, and Z to Dad’s things, and that you’ve been slandering my name to anyone who’ll listen for five seconds” without the lawyer present. DO NOT. Don’t give her any ammunition if you can possibly avoid it.)
Once everything’s in the storage bin, get a heavy-duty lock on it and tell the company that only the executors are to open the bin, and even then only with the probate lawyer present. Make sure she has no reason or opportunity to break in there.
@Jennifer: Hey, be fair to the 12 year old boys – they aren’t nearly as immature as Baby Mamma’s friends seem to be. Even 12 year old boys get that a joke isn’t appreciated and drop it, after all. (Eventually.) But since bar-hopping seems to be their favourite activity, I’d say her friends are in their late teens or mid 20s (depending on whether they’re up here in Canada or down in the States; we let people start drinking a good two, three years earlier than you do (19, compared to 21).) So, not *quite* at the age where they should’ve found something better to do, but Baby Mamma should still go find some friends who don’t feel the need to slam her every time her pregnancy crosses their minds; she deserves better than that, for both herself and her child.
And I just thought of something, too: it’s possible that Baby Mamma’s friends are being so harsh about the pregnancy in an attempt to passive-aggressively get their “fun” friend back. Which…still stupid, and immature, and, yeah, did I mention stupid? ‘Cause Baby Mamma’s obviously chosen to keep the kid, by this point (and it’s not like she could turn around and go “Oh, yes, I have seen the light and shall take myself down to the nearest abortion clinic immediately!” at this point – it’s neither legal nor safe to the mother to abort by the second trimester.)
So, @Baby Mamma: I’d sit your friends down when they’re sober and tell them, straight out, that the whole “you should’ve gotten an abortion” line of jokes? They need to stop, like, yesterday. You know that a certain amount of teasing is how your group rolls, but you don’t find it funny any more and you haven’t for some time, and you feel that they’re now attacking your child instead of making fun of you. You’re not going to require them to do a 180 and love the sprog-to-be, and you’re fine if your pregnancy never comes up around them again, but the constant attacks need to stop.
And if they can’t, or won’t, find the self-restraint necessary to do so? Well, it’s been nice knowing them up until now, and you hope they have a good life – but you can’t be friends with them any more.
And then you go join Lamaze class, and water aerobics, and whatever else is offered in your area, and you meet new friends who *won’t* keep up with the ‘teasing’ after you’ve told them to stop it.
Meredith, to me it’d be one thing if people were saying “You should’ve had an abortion” to her face, but behind her back, I hate to say it, but I find that acceptable. I discuss the choices of friends and acquatainces when they’re not present, and that’s generally when the “So, is it me or is that kind of ridiculous what she’s doing?” comes out. I discuss frustrations about other friends TO other friends, and I know my friends do the same about me, and that what they say isn’t always nice. If you don’t want to be a part of those sorts of conversations, obviously that’s fine, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people having them. (But then, I come from a family of gossips. Something happens to one of us, everyone knows within a couple of days.)
However, Baby Mama, if you’ve told them not to go there and they do so repeatedly and maliciously? They’re not people you’re compatible with any longer, and you deserve friends that don’t go out of their way to make you feel like shit. Not everyone’s going to want to hear about morning sickness and placentas (although some do – I’ve never been pregnant and I plan on never having kids, but I freakin’ love the baby talk, especially once the fetus debuts as a real-live baby and I get to hear about what they get up to), but most people at the very least can look at a pregnant woman without feeling the need to insult her. (Though I recommend aiming a little higher than THAT, but you know what I mean, I think.)
to baby mama- my circle of friends was/is the same way. When our friend got pregnant the snarky “I could never deal with a baby” comments started. Most of us were not very kid-crazy (at that stage anyway) and very sarcastic/joking within the group. And slowly they stopped after a bit- we got got over it and we got over ourselves. Yeah, I didn’t want a baby, but she did and she was my friend. That’s all there was to it in the end. Ripping on friends is fun- if there is the understanding that everyone’s cool with it. But to continue needling you on the one thing you’ve asked be let go? Not friends.
@Baby Mama- It doesn’t have to be a gender thing, either. You don’t have to expect guys to be as on board or “awwwwwwww!” about the baby as the women will be, but I know from first-hand experience that guys can be cool with babies, even young guys.
When my husband was in college, he was part of a really tight group of guys. When one of the guys and his girlfriend got pregnant, very much by accident, they were very supportive other than some very harmless ribbing (which, face it, guys are going to do even if it WAS planned. They’re guys.) When Faith was born the night before my husband’s graduation, the guys were all in the hospital waiting room. And it never wore off. She’s 4 now, and all of those guys treat her like she’s their own. Now, granted, this may not be typical behavior of all men, but guys can be pretty cool about kids. Don’t chalk the difference up to gender and let it slide.
@FloridaErin: Aw. Your husband and his buddies sound like the genuine article. I hope BabyMama and Baby can find such another troop of “uncles.”
I am laughing my ass off too about the “little sister” kitten following the dog around. My older cat used to be so annoyed when I brought in her kitten sister, who would follow her around and act oblivious to her growling and random whacking. Little sisters are annoying. Spot may not “hate” Salem, but kittens can be extremely obnoxious and annoying. Salem will grow out of it but I understand that it is hard because Spot is older and the growing out time may not be there for her. I understand that this makes the situation difficult. But, I do think that it is normal for an older animal to be annoyed by a hyper constant attention-seeking kitten. Good luck with this. I do know how painful animal strife can be to a household.
Babymama – Go to the local community center or prenatal clinic/hospital, sign up for birthing classes and find some new friends! You will need to know some people in the same boat as you going forward (to commiserate, to have playdates, etc.) and I know lots of people who have made lifelong friends through these classes. Your friends suck so badly, I don’t know where to start.
Regarding Shannon: in many countries, after a certain amount of time sharing a household (and seven years certainly qualify – usually a year or two is eoungh. Sometimes less), you’ve got a Common Law Marriage, which gives partners almost the same rights as a married spouse. It takes something like a certified will to supercede the privileges of a Common Law spouse.
Bottom line: get an attorney. Figure out what your rights and obligations are, and what Partner’s are. Pick it up from there.
Baby Mama- you made a choice your friends don’t agree with, that much is obvious. Why they can’t seem to grasp that THIS particular choice is not akin to oh, say, a short hair cut that is mock-worthy is beyond me. There are some excellent mom websites out there that offer support (my favorite is the Daily Kos’s wife’s, mothertalkers) where you can talk about all sorts of pregnancy related stuff with people who actually get it. That can open you up to talking about other things with these “friends”.
But in the long run, it’s going to take more than just online support, and weeding out friends that aren’t supportive is going to be necessary. When your full-on momma hormones kick in, you’re gonna wind up killing someone if they mock your kid. The book “Operating Instructions” is a pretty good single-mom-surprised-by-baby book. You’ll be great. Don’t let others dictate you feelings.
Shannon,
It’s hard to know your exact legal position without knowing what country you are in, and what legal relationship this woman had to your father.
If the bank account was a JTWROS (Joint Tenancy With Rights of Survivorship), she can legally take every penny. If her name is not on the account then the bank had no business letting her take money out of it before OR after he died. So she must have some sort of signing power.
I’m surprised the bank gave you any information about the account. When my father died last year, the bank wouldn’t give us information until we, his heirs, signed an affidavit (under penalty of perjury) that we were his only heirs and were entitled to the money. With a larger estate, we would have had to go through probate to establish our rights, then we could have taken the court order to the bank and they would have given us access to the statements, and to the money.
In America, she would not be entitled to a government funeral benefit unless she were married to him. So how is she getting $3,000 from the government?
In most countries, the estate is responsible to pay the funeral costs. That debt takes priority over payments to heirs. Because of this, the estate may be legally responsible for the funeral even though you didn’t contract to pay for it and had very little input into its budget. I found that out last year when my father died in the Netherlands.
Have you seen a copy of the will? How does this woman know that you are the executors and heirs?
Also, if the estate is small (YMMV, but in California, “small” is defined as under $100,000), I believe you would not be required to file anything with the courts in order to take control of his assets. In California we use a form 13500 IIRC, where you sign under penalty of perjury that you are the only heirs and are entitled to gain control of the assets.
One thing I learned that surprised me last year when my father died is that if he had filled out a beneficiary card for his bank account (he didn’t), the money would have passed outside the estate directly to the beneficiaries he named on that card. So that’s something to check with the bank – did he have a beneficiary card on file with them?
Oh and one more thing? I’m not a lawyer so don’t rely on anything I said!
Baby Mama,
Although I’m sympathetic to the constant ribbing and feel, “You don’t like morning sickness, get an abortion.” is utterly insensitive, you have to recognise that a lot of people don’t “get” pregnancy. Like the female friends you mentioned I will smile, nod, and change the subject as soon as congratulatory noises have escaped my lips, but inwardly I’m screaming, “GET RID OF THAT REVOLTING PARASITE BEFORE YOU MAKE ME BUY YOU SOME BABY CRAP!” It can’t be easy to empathise with those of us who view the future of a beloved friend revolving entirely around finding a babysitter if we ever want to see them again, but there it is. All of that aside, you do NOT need to put up with the commentary, however we feel. You don’t want to abandon your friends, and eventually they will be there for you, believe it or not. Just tell them to cut it out and after the soreness factor of your speaking firm has died down they’ll realise you’re right…but don’t expect miracles.
This just in from Shannon, who reports that her work computer is now assuming that TN is porn, so she can’t get into the comments herself:
“Could you let them know I did go and see a lawyer who said that she’s have to return all the money she’d taken to the estate – but since she’s paid for the funeral and his account at the chemists has been closed – I think it’s best to just let it go. . Oh and the way that she could take the money out was that she had his atm card and knew his pin.
Also (sorry to bug) I think it’s really important that people discuss with their parents/family both the will and the executorships. Dad didn’t tell my sister and I that we were executors and it made things pretty difficult. It was out fault too because we didn’t want to be all “we know you’re dying!, tell us what to do!” when he was still in denial – we assumed that because he had a will things would be okay but if we’d talked about it with him we could have made some more informed choices – and you know what they say about assumptions.”
Thanks for the update, Shannon, and for the reminder. Nobody wants to be morbid, but you do have to have these conversations, even if your parents are in relatively good health; if some of these decisions have been made for you at that difficult time, or at least clearly delegated, it really helps.