The Vine: June 1, 2011
I am having some serious doubts about a friendship I have from my job and how/if to proceed with the relationship.
This friend and I have similar senses of humor and struck up a close relationship. A few months ago, she started opening up to me about her very long and troubled past. She was the victim of a violent sexual assault in college, followed by a long relationship with a boyfriend who was physically, sexually, and emotionally abusive. Her family has a history of mental illness, and she has suffered from multiple medical issues as well as an eating disorder. She is now in her early 30s and still struggles with all of these problems.
When she started to open up about these problems with me, I did what I felt any good friend should do: I listened to her sympathetically and offered my support. However, a number of problems have arisen from this.
One is that this friendship has now blossomed into a constant drain of my time and patience — she sends me long e-mails or text messages all day during work and at home. I have responded in the past because I was genuinely worried about her and wanted to help and I do truly feel sorry for all she went through. However, it got to the point where I realized I was sacrificing my personal and professional life to attend to her needs, and I have since been limiting my responses before I start resenting her even more.
The other problem I am facing is this: I am starting to doubt the veracity of all of the stories she has told about her past. Without going into too much detail, let me share this: her college attack took place over almost an entire day in which multiple men not only raped her but also tortured her (burned her, beat her, cut her), leaving her physically scarred and an emotional wreck. She has told me in graphic detail everything that occurred (note: I did NOT ask her for specifics), and while I get that there are some sick fucks in the world and bad stuff happens, this was some truly over-the-top horror-movie stuff.
And she has also shared with me in great detail all of the abuses her ex-boyfriend has inflicted upon her, including forcing “pills” on her before sex so she would lie there and not fight back, spraying her with mace, and making her watch him have sex with other women so she could “learn how to do it right.”
One part of me is inclined to believe her — after all, as I said horrible things do happen, and this girl is obviously traumatized and has opened up to me in what appeared to be heart-rendering sincerity. And yet…is it possible for SO MANY horrific things to keep happening to one person over and over? And also…does it actually matter if this stuff really happened or if she is exaggerating/making it up? Either way, it is indicative of someone who has serious trouble and needs help.
Some of my other friends at work, with whom she has shared these stories, have voiced their suspicion about her past as well as the fact that she seems to spend all of her time going from person to person spilling all of this out. She IS in therapy and actually goes a few days per week, and I always direct her to talk to her therapist when it gets to be too much for me. I don’t think there is any way to really verify the accuracy of her stories and I certainly would never want to hurt her by insinuating she was making things up — because if it is true then I would just feel like shit, but do I keep offering her support on the assumption that she does have serious issues, or do I just try to keep the friendship on a more superficial level?
I feel terribly guilty about the fact that on some level, I encouraged this girl to be open with me and promised her ongoing support and now I kind of want to retract that. I do not want to abandon her but also do not want to be used or duped into a friendship based on lies.
Overwhelmed
Dear Over,
It depends on what you mean by “support.” If you mean “make yourself available to her 24/7 and encourage her to talk through these issues anytime,” no, that isn’t healthy for either of you; you start to resent her, as you’ve seen, and it’s not a job you’re qualified for. You’re her friend, not her counselor, and you can be a supportive friend and a good listener while still setting boundaries.
And it’s you who will have to do that in this friendship — change the subject, decline to answer certain phone calls, make it clear that discussions at work need to concern work, et cetera. Whether it’s a history of abuse or some other reason, your friend doesn’t have good boundaries; maybe she’s making up stories to get comfort and attention, but it’s probably more about daring people to care about her despite how broken she is, or naming it and claiming it on the advice of her therapist…it’s hard to say. She’s troubled in some way, clearly, and you can feel compassion for her without feeling obligated to respond to every overture or meltdown.
Continue to support her, but continue to set limits. Tell her when it’s too much for you. Remind her that you like to talk about yourself and your problems sometimes, too. Respond to texts at the office with something like, “Would love to discuss, have to wait ’til after work.” (Definitely do that. It’s great when work friendships can go to the next level, but if she’s interfering with your workday, quash that pronto.) Let her know if the friendship is starting to feel like you’re a hotline. Drawing these lines may help her recognize how to share and seek support in a slightly more appropriate, less taxing way — but you don’t need that rationale in order to draw them. You can’t carry all that weight anymore. It doesn’t make you a bad friend.
And if she’s just telling stories…I think that possibility is attractive to you because it would mean that you don’t have to feel bad about putting a little distance between the two of you. Again, you don’t have to feel bad about that anyway, and you shouldn’t feel bad for wishing, a little bit, that you could catch her in a lie and step away from the drama. She’s exhausting you; I’d feel the same way. But ask yourself whether you really want to know that she’s lied to you all this time. Evidence to that effect may present itself at some point, but in the meantime, try not to dwell on the possibility, because it really wouldn’t solve anything, if you see what I’m saying.
Open up some distance if you need it and don’t feel guilty; nobody has to be the bad guy for that to be a good idea.
Tags: friendships workplace
“Drawing these lines may help her recognize how to share and seek support in a slightly more appropriate, less taxing way — but you don’t need that rationale in order to draw them. You can’t carry all that weight anymore. It doesn’t make you a bad friend.”
Also, realize that it is not your responsibility to fix everyone else’s problems. Recognize that if your ‘friendship’ is mainly made of listening to her problems, absorbing her stress, and feeling obligated to help, that is not a friendship, and you are not obligated to maintain the relationship. Been there, and eventually (on good advice) cut off contact entirely. Sars is absolutely right that it *may* help her see the need for boundaries, but if she is systemic about this, it may not, and it shouldn’t eat your life and energy, if so.
Not only does really bad shit happen to people, it often *does* happen to the same people over and over. When people are abused, especially as children, it often messes with their ability to detect warning signals and steer clear of situations that would set alarm bells ringing for most of us. When someone has a pattern of victimization like this in their adult life, it most often points to a pattern of abuse inflicted on that person in childhood. Also, there’s a mental sleight of hand that often goes on where victims of childhood abuse believe that what happened to them was their own fault because it allows them to believe that they had some kind of control over the situation – and then they seek out abusive situations as adults in an attempt to make things turn out differently this time. It’s really hard to let go of the desire to “fix” terrible things that happened to you as a child by, essentially, replaying the movie until it somehow has a different ending. It’s good that she’s getting therapy, because in the long run it may prevent her ending up as a woman murdered by an abusive boyfriend or domestic partner.
That said, this woman may have some kind of personality disorder at work which is causing her to embellish or to create dramatic tales out of whole cloth in order to receive attention or sympathy. However, my experience with the (very few) people I have met who are both like this and able to hold down a job is that they tend to get their details mixed up after a while. When you’re telling the truth, it’s pretty easy to retell the details in more-or-less the same way over and over again. When you’re telling an elaborate set of lies, however, it’s easy to forget how you arranged the details last time you told the story and to trip yourself up. So, if it really matters to you whether she’s telling the truth, think back over the information she’s shared with you and whether it’s varied in any significant particulars over time. (Also, if she were making this stuff up, I doubt that she would have waited any significant amount of time into the relationship to start divulging these secrets. People who love to tell dramatic lies about themselves usually can hardly WAIT to start bending your ear.)
But I think Sars is right that what matters here is not so much whether she’s telling the truth. (And, FWIW, this woman sounds to me like a classic abuse survivor, whether solely of the events she’s described to you, solely of terrible childhood trauma, or of both.) What matters is that she’s draining you, and trying to use you as an additional therapist when that’s really not what you signed up for. I think your instinct to try to back off and keep the friendship a bit more superficial is correct. If she senses this and tells you she is hurt by it, you can tell her (as kindly as possible) that you care about her mental health, and are really glad that she is getting professional help, but that the amount she is confiding in you and relying on you is overwhelming for you, and is interfering with your ability to attend to your work and to carry on with your other relationships. Not that you don’t want to be her friend, but that you need her to dial it back a little to that you can cope.
You’re right in feeling that she has real boundary issues, which is common in people who grew up in abusive families. Being subtle in pulling back may or may not work, and she may not cope with it well if you have to tell her point-blank that you need a little more space. Unfortunately, though, you can’t help her by letting her drain you dry until you get so resentful that you cut the friendship off completely.
I wish you the best of luck in dealing with a difficult situation. If your friend is not already in a support group for survivors of abuse and/or sexual assault, please, please recommend to her strongly that she get involved in one. A support group will give her a safe space to share her stories with people who have a frame of reference for them and who may also want to share their own stories as part of the journey to healing. It may also make her feel less alone.
This immediately reminded me of this oldie-but-goodie: https://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-october-29-2008/
It’s something I wonder about, for sure. I’ve known a handful of people over the years who professed to have gone through unimaginable nightmares. I have a neighbor who apparently ODed over the weekend. She survived, and is already home from hospital. To hear her tell it, though: she flatlined TWICE and miscarried her jerk boyfriend’s baby, which she didn’t know she was carrying because doctors had told her she’d never be able to conceive thanks to violent childhood sexual abuse.
I feel like a monster for harboring any hint of skepticism, if only about the miraculously speedy recovery from full-on cardiac arrest.
Is this just a really common thing?
Such an interesting letter. I don’t have anything to add to Sars’s advice, but it’s gotten me wondering. Specifically, maybe the friend has been actually abused in her past, but is now embellishing the stories to an extreme degree. Is that maybe to preempt victim-blaming on the part of her listeners, or to curry care-taking?
I’ve known (and been friends with) people who make shit up to an astonishing degree, but so far it’s only been positive, Mary-Sue-type aggrandizement. I have no experience with the other end of that continuum. I’d be curious to know (not that it would matter to how you’d handle it — boundaries, boundaries) if her recaps tend to cover the same historical ground with increasingly lurid details, or if it’s more like “and then there was this other time” kind of piling on. Is that kind of thing common with abuse victims, either in or out of therapy? I hope we have some experts in the field amongst the readers.
As far as her veracity is concerned, it could be some of both. Our society is quite lurid in its depicitions of violence towards women as entertainment (call it the SVU effect) and some genuine abuse victims may start to feel like they weren’t abused “enough” or in an interesting enough fashion, and begin to embellish details in order to line their experiences up with what they may have seen on TV. They may also think that their past is all they have to offer in the way of keeping a person’s interest. I’m not saying this is the case with your freind, but it is a possiblity.
Sars’ advice for setting boundaries is spot on. If you do this, you will be doing your friend a service: you will show her how it’s done.
Gotta chime in: My mom has a severe personality disorder. She was abused by her mother, which is verified by my aunts, but she tells stories that are physically impossible (like things about me having physical problems as an infant, that my pediatrician says are flat-out wrong). She truly believes them, and she waits to hit you with them, especially when she feels that you’re pulling away or that she’s losing your full attention. They’re so ingrained that she’s consistent, and I really do think that she thinks that they’re fact.
Personality disorders can be a real energy vacuum, so (and I’m NOT saying that’s what your friend has, and you’ll probably never know for sure, but if things continue to not add up, consider the possibility) if you feel yourself getting dragged down, you need a break for you. I’m big on the “left the phone on vibrate in . . .” excuses. I’ve been criticized a lot for taking communication breaks from my mother, but if I didn’t, I’d still be in therapy 21 years after moving out, rather than having finished after 6 years.
Thinking about this some more – the one thing that *does* make me wonder if Overwhelmed’s friend is making up stories due to a personality disorder is the fact that most people I know who have suffered abuse/assault are very reluctant to talk about it, even with a therapist; and when they have mentioned what they’ve suffered to me, they usually don’t want to talk about specifics. However, I can imagine that if you’ve suffered something that horrible and are finally able to bring yourself to talk about exactly what happened, it might be like a dam breaking, and it might be hard to decide when it is or is not appropriate to keep talking about those issues with someone you feel close to.
I do really appreciate the fact that Overwhelmed specifically says that she does not want to hurt her friend by insinuating that her story is made up. One of the things that is hardest and most wounding for abuse survivors is being disbelieved when they explain what happened to them. Even if Overwhelmed needs to pull back on the friendship as part of reestablishing boundaries, she is definitely being a good friend in this regard. Best to always take the high road and deal with your friend on the assumption that her story is true unless you have strong evidence to the contrary. Good on you, Overwhelmed.
I would be less concerned about the veracity of her claims and definitely more focused on her effect on your well-being. I’m lucky in that my friends and I have largely lived safe, happy lives with a few unfortunate exceptions.
In the case of someone who is simply telling stories for the attention, in my experience, that makes itself plenty obvious over time. I had a friend in college whose stories got considerably more outlandish and less based in reality the longer I knew her. Like attica said, her stories weren’t retellings so much as they were “and then this totally other wackadoo, unrealistic, and totally made up thing happened to me.” Trust me when I tell you that laws of physics, anatomy, and several other scientific disciplines were violated regularly in her stories.
It sounds like your friend is peeling away various layers of things that really did happen to her, and part of your repulsion might stem from not wanting to think that people are capable of doing those things to others. I know I would definitely struggle with that.
That said, she is still a drain on you, and pointing her back towards her therapist is a good strategy for managing her.
Thanks so much for the responses–I think it has been very helpful for me to get the feedback that no, I am not being a horrible person and/or friend by feeling the need to pull back a little and set boundaries with her. I have been limiting my response time to her, which does seem to help in that it reduces the number of back and forth emails/texts, and do heartily agree the work boundaries NEED to be set.
As far as whether she is exaggerating or worse, I think the reason I began to doubt her was when I heard from a few other co-workers that she has shared her story with them. Mind you–I did not betray her confidence–these people came up to me b/c they know I am close to her & wanted to know if I knew her “history”. The fact that she would go around telling this to multiple people–especially at work–really make me suspicious, and that, as well as the increasingly lurid details and sheer volume of different traumas that have happened to her (I am talking a new event every week) has lead me to have doubts.
But, on some level, I think to myself–does it matter? I mean, even if she made EVERYTHING up, still she clearly has deep problems and needs help. I think I just was starting to feel used, and to think the relationship was based on lies would make me even more resentful on some level. But I also think what Sars suggested could be the case too–part of me may want to believe the stories are untrue because it makes me feel less guilty for wanting to pull away.
I am very interested to know that other people have had relationships with people like this–I have felt so guilty and conflicted about feeling the way I have! Thanks so much for the feedback.
Although I agree that whether she’s telling the truth or not is irrelevant to how you respond to her, I can speak from experience that although awful things DO happen to good people… there are also people who like to pretend awful things happened to them for the attention.
When I was in high school, a friend convinced me and a group of our classmates (and some teachers) that she had a rare blood disorder that was killing her. We were put through the ringer for months as she missed school, talked about procedures she was having, how awful dying was… the ruse lasted all the way up until the day we thought she died. I still remember running down the hall to the principal’s office, where we were being called for what I assumed was her death, on the verge of tears… convinced she had finally succumbed to her illness. Then walking into the room to find her with her parents, and having her tell us that the whole thing was an elaborate lie. Nothing about it was true. She had no excuse for her actions… only an apology. Being young and fairly trusting, that experience absolutely devastated me. I cut off all ties with her, and I heard later on that she learned nothing from the experience. She actually started the whole thing over again a year later with a new group of friends. This time it was a heart condition…
I’m not saying your friend obviously lied. I’m only saying it can happen. Mental illness comes in many forms…
Sars is right, though… it doesn’t matter whether she is telling the truth. What matters is your own mental health, and the setting of appropriate boundaries.
Aside from the tale-telling, what is the rest of your relationship like? Does she lend a supportive ear to your problems? Is she happy for your successes? Does she care when you are ill? Or does she just wait for the first opportunity to move the topic to herself?
I got in deep with a friend back in University (whom I’ll admit I had a wounded-puppy crush on) trying to help with his long, continual woes. After a while (and good advice from Mom) I realized that he didn’t actually want real help — he would in fact actively prevent any meaningful help — because being pitied was his way of getting attention and love. This was even more pathetic, but it saved me hours of my life that would have otherwise gone to this emotional vampire.
I don’t know if this applies to your friend, but if it does, I suggest swimming rather than being pulled under.
I second John’s questions here. Are you friends with her because you think she needs a friend and you feel bad pulling away, or because you really enjoy spending time with her and find her supportive of you?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m guessing it’s the first. And you aren’t obligated to be anybody’s friend, no matter how needy they are. Maybe it would help to think of her as somebody you’d dated for a while, since we’re much better at recognizing that those sort of relationships have limited obligations and, often, durations. The advantage with this approach is that it doesn’t matter if her stories are true or not–it’s whether the relationship is worth being the constant audience for them.
I do think that whether the stories are true or not, it’s significant that they’re her way of connecting to people, and it doesn’t sound like a very healthy or viable dynamic to promote–I’d be pretty uncomfortable with it as well.
If she is otherwise a really great friend, that’s another matter. But if this is what she’s about, you don’t need to be about it too.
Overwhelmed,
I was in a relationship with someone who told similar lies–and kept adding more (e.g., she’d been brutally raped, sexually assaulted, mugged…). And she also lied about having a serious disease. She never wanted me to go with her when she got treatments, though. The lies started to unravel when, for one thing, I found out she’d told a mutual friend that I was going to treatments with her. She also started showing more and more signs of mental illness as time went on, and the details of her trauma stories began to change as she re-told them over and over (she told these stories to many people, or would at least hint at what had supposedly happened, to solicit sympathy).
I do think your instincts are good, about wondering why your friend would share the details of such a traumatic experience with so many people. And I can certainly relate to your conflicted feelings–not wanting to confront her, because what if it actually is true, etc.
I guess my point is…although it would be great to think that no one would tell such awful lies, sometimes they do. And whether or not that’s the case with your friend, I second the advice to distance yourself and set some boundaries. If she honestly has been through so much trauma, maybe the distance from you will encourage her to focus on her therapy. And if they’re lies, she’ll find someone else to use as an audience.
Hi Overwhelmed.
I agree with pretty much everything Sars said, but I want to add one thing.
All mental illness is hell for the sufferer and the people that care about him/her. But there is a subset of mental illnesses that can feed off a certain type of communication.
Constantly focusing on horrors can entrench them as the central features of the sufferer’s life, when that might not otherwise be, and that can sometimes mean that the illness itself actually feeds of its constant discussion.
A friend can’t medicate a suffering friend, and similarly, a friend can’t provide professional therapy. Sometimes the best thing a friend can do is distract and engage the person who is suffering. Engage in something, if not joyful, than at least diverting enough that the pain recedes – even if only temporarily.
Good luck!
I could say so much about this (I too have been in extremely similar situations…more than once!), but ultimately I agree with John and Jane above. If you are not receiving anything out of this relationship, and suspect that she is only using you for a source of pity and attention, please do not feel guilty about distancing yourself for your own mental health and happiness.
More importantly, I don’t know that I completely agree that it doesn’t matter whether she is lying or not. Yes, either way she clearly needs help, but pathological lying and abuse survival are not at all the same can of worms. My husband and I befriended someone who turned out to be a pathological liar, and the way we found out was when she lied about an elaborate situation that ended up getting my husband in trouble at work–long story very short, her lies caused a pretty major SNAFU that was very problematic and embarrassing for him, in an already delicate employment situation. Really not good.
It’s also ultimately just a horse of a different color. Lying–whatever the underlying reason–is manipulative in a way that having been abused and therefore being needy and boundary-less is not. I understand that both stem from mental illness, but one is, to me, a lot more sympathetic than the other. Personally, I too would feel used and abused if I found out someone had been extracting so much time and energy from me with lies. I don’t think you should jump to conclusions, but if you do catch her changing up her stories, I wouldn’t recommend dismissing it, either. You do need to protect yourself, and someone who lies that elaborately is not going to contain it to one topic. I’d advise proceeding very carefully, whatever you ultimately decide to do.
And good luck!
All the helpful advice has been offered, but Overwhelmed, you sound like a really good person handling a hard situation with grace and consideration for others. The way you speak of this girl, even with your doubts, is compassionate and respectful. Don’t undervalue that, and don’t feel guilty for needing clear boundaries — regardless of her honesty or lack thereof.
I agree with others who have asked — what is there to this friendship besides you serving as her sounding board / therapist? Friendships are supposed to be reciprocal — is this someone who you feel you could turn to if *you* had a hard time / issue that needed working through? Is this someone where mutual interests or a sense of humor are sustaining contact when you’re not talking about her issues? If not, that to me is a real reason to consider backing away from this friendship even more.
While it is wonderful that you want to be there for someone who needs help, this person is currently getting *professional* help, and the best thing you might be able to do for her is not enabling her in making her entire world about herself and her trauma.
Agreed with those who have referenced the possibility of a personality disorder, which seems especially likely given what sounds like an almost complete lack of boundaries. People with certain types of personality disorders can be extremely manipulative, and I would just be very wary of maintaining a ‘friendship’ with someone who may use any means necessary to keep you in her orbit.
Whether the gal has a personality disorder or is just severely messed-up from significant abuse, you can only do so much. Friends are not therapists and you can only do much. Don’t beat yourself up over the impulse to set some limits. Regardless of her true history, she has zero ability to set appropriate limits for herself.
It’s entirely possible that she has experienced significant abuse AND has a personality disorder. When faced with someone like this, a good person will set limits and encourage her to continue to seek help from trained professionals — all of which it sounds like you’re doing. But if you’re not having some sort of ebb and flow, give and take of support, this isn’t a friendship.
Hiya there Overwhelemed,
First of all, I’m not certain of what sort of mental illness your friend has – but in my experience with a schizophrenic, bipolar mum, the things she says are most certainly not true. However, this is a key point in her illness, and because of the illness she does not recognize the fact that what she is saying is untrue – in her mind she has lived it, dealt with it and continues to call up Australian Federal Police to counteract it. I’d like to say that I am not doubting her stories of domestic violence or abuse, but I’m pointing out that there may be a possibility that she possesses this mental illness, and as such, her perceptions of events are exceptionally skewed.
An example of this in my experience is my mum’s explanations of events detailing that my brother and I were sexually assaulted by our neighbours. To my knowledge, my father’s knowledge and my brother’s knowledge, this has never, ever happened. We trust and respect those neighbours and we count them among our most valued friends. But do you think we can convince Mum otherwise? No. It’s just not possible, and despite medication, her perceptions of people,events and places can really be rather different to my own or my family’s. Another interesting thing also relevant to your tale is that my Mum will quite easily tell other people of what’s going on – mass paedophile rings & people shooting drugs at her, and why she can’t go back to work.
In saying this, while you can support someone, as many other people above have said, you cannot be their therapist. This lass sounds as though she is a very troubled and traumatized lady, but even from your name, overwhelemed, it sounds like this shit is just way too much. You can only do so much brother and with all due respect, I think you have done quite enough.
Hoping this helps a little!
Claery.