The Vine: June 17, 2009
Dear Sars,
I stumbled into a problem and I’m way out of my depth.I’m hoping you or your readers will have some advice for me.
My husband comes from a family with a history of cancer.He lost his sister very young to a rare sarcoma, his dad’s got a brother who’s spent his whole life having tumors removed from his head, and his paternal grandmother died fairly young also, I think of leukemia.The other day I got it in my head to wonder whether there’s anything more to this than coincidence.
Thanks to the wonders of the Internet, I now know that his dad’s family fits clinical diagnostic criteria for a rare genetic condition called Li-Fraumeni Syndrome.Affected individuals have a 90% chance of developing one of about a billion cancers.My husband’s chances of being affected look to be about 1 in 2.There is no survival benefit to knowing whether you are affected — additional screening has not been shown to benefit anybody, since you’d have to screen for basically everything — and there is no cure.
The obvious thing to do at this stage is to see a genetic counselor, and I’m planning to call one.I mean, I have a strong enough scientific background to be pretty confident I understand the heritability stuff here, but I’m still not a doctor.Nevertheless, the issues are complicated.
There is a genetic test, but they’ll generally only do it if you can produce a living relative who’s affected, so you know which mutation to look for.The only living relative with cancer has a brain full of holes, making consent a complicated issue.My father-in-law has never had cancer; since my sister-in-law died of it it seems logical to assume Dad’s carrying the responsible allele, but I don’t think they go on genetic fishing expeditions in healthy people whose sick relatives haven’t had the genetic test, and all the cancers in their family emerged when this syndrome was still new to the scientific literature.
And it makes sense to eschew the fishing expedition — a positive result, as I said, confers no survival benefit; and a negative result, particularly when you don’t know which mutation is the problem, is uninterpretable.
So here’s my question.Assuming that a genetic counselor agrees with me that this sounds like Li-Fraumeni — what the hell do I do with that information?I haven’t mentioned a word of this to my husband and I don’t know what my ethical responsibilities are.My instinct is that because knowing can’t make his life better and could make it a lot worse, I should say nothing.He does not handle death well, to say the least, and not infrequently wakes me up at night with night terrors about mortality.
But we’d been planning to have kids within the next couple of years, and — now what?I can’t really reverse course on that with no explanation.But finding any answers relevant to our hypothetical kids would mean involving the whole family, and that is an awful lot of shit for an in-law to stir up in the lives of people who already haven’t had it easy.
And oh, Sars, nothing in life has prepared me for the loneliness of this knowledge.Nothing’s changed, and yet everything feels different, precarious and raw.The worst part is that we’re not even living together right now — I took a one-year position far away from him for the sake of my career, figuring one year was a small fraction of the rest of our lives.Now that I’m no longer sure that’s true, I find myself hating and fearing every day we’re apart.And I don’t know who I can talk to about it, or what to say.
Sign me,
I Didn’t Expect To Be Contemplating Widowhood Before Thirty
Dear Thirty,
The first thing you do with the information, if anything, is share it with your husband.Given that the two of you wanted to start your own family in the next couple of years, you have grounds — grounds for researching the condition; grounds for wanting to discuss it with him, because of the possible implications for your future offspring; grounds for involving the rest of the family for the sake of your own.Yes, it’s a lot of shit for an in-law to stir up, but if it involves the health and life expectancy of your children, well, that’s shit your husband should want stirred too.
But your husband has to want to do it, armed with the relevant information — and it’s not really for you to go see a genetic counselor on a fact-finding mission.I understand why it seems like a good idea; I think that, presented with a problem that you really can’t control, you’re trying to manage it by collecting information.But you’ve already seen that knowledge is not necessarily power, and that learning more isn’t making you any happier or fixing anything; ignorance was bliss, in this case.
And again, it isn’t you who’s maybe got this syndrome.It’s your husband.If I found out my significant other had gone over my head to a doctor to discuss my melanoma profile, I have to tell you, I wouldn’t love that.I’d be touched by the concern, and the effort, but I don’t really want people diagnosing me without my knowledge.
Sit your husband down, tell him what you found out, and then just listen.Do not suggest the genetic counselor, do not utter sentences that start with “I think you need to”; tell him that you got curious, so you did some research, and now you can’t un-know these things and it’s got you worried about the consequences for your future kids.You want to avoid speculating without proof, or getting too far ahead of yourself as far as the repercussions, because he’s just going to feel overwhelmed, and you can get to the “I’m afraid to waste too much time living in a different city from you” part of the conversation later.Give him a chance to talk.
It wouldn’t be a bad idea for him to see a counselor — a psychologist.His family has had a rough go, and if he’s waking up with night terrors, he should consider talking to someone about that and managing his anxiety more productively.
That is for him to do, though.I do think you should tell him what you’ve found out, because medical ethics aside, the emotional ethics of the marriage dictate that you not be profiling him on Web MD without telling him.But most of this is on him, and you have to give him a chance to step up to that.
Hi Sars,
This is long, for which I apologize, but I’m hoping someone outside the situation can help me out.
So there’s this guy. Not like that, actually. We’re married. We dated for 4 years, married, and it was great. I’m 28 and he’s 33. My family loves him, he loves them, we love each other, I love his family, they love me.
However, right after we got home from the honeymoon, his mom was diagnosed with cancer. We spent the next year and a little bit dealing with a long, drawn out, horrible series of tests, surgeries, chemo, radiation, screwed-up surgeries, narrow escapes, and finally, on our first anniversary, we were told there was nothing more they could do for her. It was awful. We were told 1-2 weeks, and she held on for almost 5. It was incredibly painful for everyone.
My husband, we’ll call him Will, had been very close to his mother, and this was especially hard for him. He was taking care of his father, I was taking care of him, and my family is 3,000 miles away, so I just sort of worked by myself to keep everything together. Understandably, my husband was very angry at the world and the situation and everything, and, also understandably, he directed it towards me. I know it’s like when you’re a teenager and you take things out on your mom because you know she’ll still love you, so she’s a “safe” person to get mad at and be mean to. He did that to me, big time. I tried talking to him about it a few times, but that tended to make him defensive and angry, and wasn’t really worth the grief. So I just put up with it. Besides, his mother was dying. I felt that kinda gave you a pass on just about anything.
Friends were aware of the medical situation, and some knew that he was being kind of nasty to me, but I didn’t tell them all of it, because we have the same friends. If I told them, I felt like I’d be changing their relationship with Will, ratting him out or something. Same reason I didn’t explain it all to my mom — if Will and I split, then I could explain it to her in a way she’d understand, and if I told her and we stayed together, then I knew she’d have a problem with him forever.
But the truth of it is that he was emotionally and verbally abusive. He was controlling and jealous, he wouldn’t let me out of the house without him, he was possessive and cruel and seriously not okay. While it was going on I did a pretty good job of not thinking about how nasty it was, instead just working to get through each day and keep everything and everyone together. He said a lot of horrible things, called me names, blew up at the slightest setback or bump or if anything wasn’t perfect. He would insist on driving me places and picking me up, which put me in the situation of only going where he would take me, and only for that long. Anything that went wrong was my fault, and he made me feel like shit. Pretty classic examples, really. This lasted for a year and a half — the first year and a half of our marriage, no less.
And recently he’s sort of snapped out of it. He’s had some time to deal with the grief, and he’s getting back to being the nice, caring, fun guy I fell in love with. The problem now seems to be me. I’m scared of him. I’m petrified whenever there’s another bump in the road, and I find myself still scrambling to make sure everything is perfect for him because I worry about his reaction if it’s not — even after he’s shown himself to be mostly sane these days.
I’m especially worried that this sort of thing will happen again. His father is, some day, going to die. He’s back in college working on a medical degree, and that’s stressful, and he might, I don’t know, fail a class or something. How do I know he won’t go abusive asshole again?
I’m also angry about it. Now that there’s not the immediate worries of taking care of my wonderful mother-in-law (to whom I was very close), or keeping people from completely losing it, I’m pissed. I’m angry he was such an asshole, I’m angry I never really got to mourn for her properly because I was too busy taking care of him, I’m angry that this shit isn’t behind us already, I’m angry, bizarrely, that he’s fine now and I’m not. I’m really angry that this happened, that he treated me this way, and that our marriage is fucked up.
I also panic when he does get angry now. I think I had a full-on panic attack once, and in general I just feel like I’m on eggshells around him, worried that he’ll be upset again. It doesn’t feel fair to ask him to never ever get mad, but I don’t know how to calm down when it’s been so strongly associated for the last 18 months that him being angry means a lot of yelling, slamming things, nasty words, and pretty scary misery.
He’s being very nice and supportive, and feels very bad about how he treated me. He doesn’t remember lots of it, which is kind of worrisome, but I know he was freaking out. He’s told me I can talk about it, and encourages me to do so. I still worry, though, that this is going to happen again. He didn’t think he was being unreasonable at the time.
It’s a little hard to phrase my question here: Is my worry that he’ll do this again valid? Can he really not do this again, or is it hardwired in there somewhere? Is he going to do this again when life gets super-stressful and so should I just get out now? Am I willfully missing signs that he’s going to start hitting me someday? Should I get myself to a shrink because I’m a basket case and everything would be fine if I’d just get over it already? Something else I’m missing?
I just don’t really know how to deal with it, or get over it, or entirely even if it’s something I should get over. Any help, from you or any readers ever in a similar situation, would be really, really helpful.
Eggshells
Dear Egg,
Yes, the worry is valid.Not written in stone, no, but valid nonetheless.Sure, maybe he’s past it for good, and I don’t know that he would start hitting you, but when you look at the ingredients, nothing in the recipe has changed.Life is still full of stressors and hard times; Will hasn’t dealt in any meaningful way with the fact that he reacted to those by becoming abusive; you still make excuses for him and blame yourself.
This isn’t your fault.You didn’t know what else to do, and then you didn’t know how to stop doing it, or when, and I think anyone else in the same situation could have had a similar reaction, feeling like she didn’t have the “right” to stick up for herself given what he was going through.
But Will didn’t have the “right” to treat you like he did, regardless of the other emotional issues on his plate, and anyway, it doesn’t matter who had what “rights” — his behavior has had its effect, and you’ll have to deal with it together.
Tell him what you told me, in abbreviated form.Tell him you love him and you want the marriage to work, but you feel like you can’t exhale around him, and the two of you need to find a better, happier way to work through the tougher times, because you can’t go through treatment like again — and won’t.You both need to go to therapy, separately and together, and you need to make it clear that this isn’t optional.Try not to sugarcoat it, or talk yourself out of taking a firm line because you don’t want to hurt his feelings, or he had his reasons, or what have you — reasons aren’t excuses, controlling your movements is not in fact a normal response to grief, and the fact is, you’re afraid of him and you resent him.You put up with a lot of shit for his sake; now, for yours, he’s going to get some help so that the two of you as a couple don’t end up back in this crappy place the next time he suffers a setback.
So, yes, get yourself to a shrink, but it’s not because you’re a basket case.It’s because you deserve better than this, and so does your relationship.Sometimes we get in a rut with our actions and reactions and a third party can help pop us out; give yourself a break, and ask for what you need.
Dear Sars,
Quick grammar question. My friend is always saying “I feel nauseated” or “I’m nauseated.” I keep hearing other people say “I feel nauseous” or “I’m nauseous.” Which of these is correct?
Feeling kinda queasy myself
Dear Quease,
I covered this in the very first letter here.(Don’t forget TN has a search function!)
Tags: boys (and girls) grammar health and beauty the fam
I just want to congratulate both Thirty and Eggshells on the fact that these might be two of the best Vine examples I’ve ever seen of “How you wind up in a really hard situation even if you are smart and wise and pretty in-tune with what the right questions are in a situation.”
Seriously, you both sound like you’re asking all the right things, not mired in delusion, not obviously self-sabotaging…they’re just really hard circumstances. With Thirty, often, the “I got information I don’t know what to do with” question is best answered with “get in your time machine, go back, and don’t snoop,” but that is not the answer here at all, for lots of reasons. And that stinks, and I’m sorry it happened.
It’s not like it’s very comforting, but for what it’s worth, they’re two of the least frustrating Vine letters I’ve ever read.
And I concur with all of Sarah’s advice on both, so I really just wish the best to both of you.
Eggshells,
I could have written your letter. I married my best friend in 2000. We had our ups and downs, but we loved each other hard. In 2003, his mother was diagnosed with cancer. Having lost my own mom to the disease at 13, I had some idea of what he was going through. My MIL’s illness was incredibly fast — 6 weeks from diagnosis to funeral. It was understandably a stressful time. And my husband took it out on me in just the way you describe — yelling, name calling, stuff that had it happened during a “normal” period would have sent me packing for my best friend’s place. Stuff that fit the class emotional/verbal abuser profile. I would literally lie on my couch and cry every day from the time I got home from work till the time he got home two hours later. And I told no one, because of intertwined friendships, because of shame, because I wanted to give him space because his mom had just died.
Like your husband, he later told me he had little memory of it. And like you, I became terrified of his anger and his utter loss of control. When I found out my one-year professor gig wouldn’t be renewed, I was terrified to tell him because one of the main things he kicked me around about while his mom was ill was the fact that I “didn’t have a real job” because I was a PhD student with a TA gig. I literally sat in my office and shook for 30 minutes before I was able to pick up the phone and tell him my contract would not be renewed, and this was nearly 4 years after the original set of incidents.
You are right to be worried that he will relapse at the next stressful incident. He might not, but it’s a valid concern.
During our next “stressful period”, my husband THREATENED TO KILL ME. Told me I was “lucky” because “in most marriages, these situations end with someone dead.”
Needless to say, I bailed.
I hope this doesn’t happen to you. I hope that your experience was a one time blip on the radar. But I also believe that sometimes, people show you who they really are when faced with extreme situations, and, as Sars would say, you can’t unknow that.
Eggshells,
Run, do not walk, to a counselor. Once you’ve found one you trust, and you’ve gotten through that first visit, work like you’ve never worked before to get your husband to go with you. If he doesn’t — keep going anyway. You need someone to listen, you need perspective, you need to learn you can’t protect anyone but yourself and you can’t solve any problems but your own. Nobody gets to be mean to you unless you let them and you must learn to stop letting them. No one should live in fear — not of saying the wrong thing, not of someone eventually dying, certainly not of someone getting a bad grade. Get help, and if nothing else make sure you’ve got a way out.
To Thirty: I’m so sorry. The prospect of losing your husband must be so dreadful, not to mention anxiety about your future children. But I have to agree with Sars here. I think keeping this to yourself is such a bad idea. I imagine you getting more anxious, your husband picking up on it, but not knowing why. You’re not just stirring up trouble to be difficult—this so deeply concerns your own life. And really, while I obviously can’t speak for your husband, I think I’d feel some measure of relief to know it was a genetic thing versus my family being repeatedly cursed. Best of luck to you.
To Egg: I can’t imagine how hard that must have been for you to go through. And I think of all the complicated emotions that must have been there: love for you new husband, love for your mother-in-law, sadness that she was going to die, your own family so far away. And then the abuse. There’s no statute of limitations on this stuff, really. Just because you didn’t stop it when it was going on (for reasons I can totally understand) it doesn’t mean you don’t get to address it now. As hard as that time was for your husband, I don’t think his behavior was very normal. Short-tempered? Sure. Upset and distant? Of course. But aggressively abusive? Controlling of the one person helping him hold it together? I don’t find that very normal at all. And I don’t think you’re a basket case for not just getting over that. That sounds like something pretty brutal to go through. Please, take Sars’ very wise advice: get yourselves to a counselor. If you’re too nervous to ask/insist this of your husband, start going yourself to build up some courage or whatever you need. No one should ever treat you that way –for any reason. Good luck.
@Egg & @Thirty – ITA with @Linda that you two sound like you are on top of things and wiling to do the work to fix it. I’d like to add that you have my UTTER admiration for dealing with these things BEFORE you have children. Bringing babies into a healthy marriage is stressful enough. Bringing them into one that is not functioning well (or one in which, like Thirty’s, all the cards are not on the table and well-sorted) is a recipe for a disaster that screws up more than two lives.
So way to go, you two. Work on it and work it out, however it goes. Now is the time to do it. Your hypothetical kids deserve the work you have to do now. On behalf of them, if I may be so bold, THANK YOU.
Adding another voice to the “I’ve been Eggshells” pile. My ex had problems and stressors and family tragedies and all of that. He would alternate between treating me just like you described, and treating me normally. He’d often not remember how he had treated me, not really. He’d remember we fought and he was angry, but he never grasped the scope of how abusive he had been.
And I never told my family or friends the breadth of it for the same reasons you state. I didn’t want to poison mutual friends against him, or give my family reason to hate him, just in case we ended up staying together.
The thing is…without consequences and/or intensive therapy to change how they cope with stress, they won’t change. It’s not like anyone reaches a point where life no longer brews shitstorms. There will always be a “Next stressful period” and you’re right to worry that the same behavior pattern will arise.
When it got to the point I used to wish and pray my ex would beat me, just so I had a “real” reason to kick him to the curb, I realized how far down he had crushed my spirit. To the point where “I’m miserable and you make me afraid to speak” didn’t seem like a valid enough reason to get out.
Whether he was under intense stress is not up for debate. He was. But he chose to deal with that by betraying the trust you had placed in him as a partner. You trusted him with your emotional well being and he broke that trust. It’s not something that’s easy to recover from, even if the behavior fades.
If he can’t or won’t seek help to figure out why he behaved that way, and make sure he learns new coping methods, then you cannot continue subjecting yourself to such a frighteningly uncertain situation.
Thirty — I think Sars is right in that you can’t un-know this information, and you should probably share it with your husband and see how he wants to proceed. Probably the genetic counselor would not be the first step; if he wants to follow up on this, I’d say he should talk to his regular doctor about it and see what the doctor suggests from there.
I also feel that I should point out that cancer is unfortunately common, and it’s not that unusual for someone to have a history of cancer in several generations of their family (grandparent, uncle, sister). Also, because Li-Fraumeni is an autosomal dominant disorder, your husband’s dad would have to be affected in order for your husband to have this disease. It sounds like his dad is okay, which is good news.
I know it’s easy to take a bit of information and go nuts with it, because you just keep thinking about how horrible it would be if your husband had this condition that can’t be cured and then what if your kids get it and OMG! I’ve been there; it sucks (as a scientist I’m really good at diagnosing myself and my loved ones with scary stuff). Thankfully, this is pretty unlikely. So, step one would be to breathe and consider that this is a very rare disorder, and it’s quite possible that the illnesses in your husband’s family are not linked to a heritable mutation. Step two, mention what you learned to your husband, because he deserves to understand your feelings about this, and let him decide whether he wants to look into it further.
Hugs to you; I know how upsetting this can be.
Eggs, although it is on a different topic, I highly recommend the book When Food Is Love, by Geneen Roth. It’s about emotional eating, but also deals with the author’s growing up with an abusive mother.
In the book she describes the “one wrong move” syndrome, the terror of never knowing what would set her mother off, of sitting perfectly still for hours in her room not rustlling papers, not blinking, not breathing, when she sensed a bad mood in the house. As she put it, “one wrong move and all I would care about was living through the one wrong move I had made.”
And she grew up never connecting to her emotions, having a terrible time trusting or being able to be in a good relationship, because of this. Yes you were an adult when this happened, but so was your husband. If neither of you deals with the abuse, you will never be able to relax, you will grow lonelier and lonelier in your marriage, and end up channeling your own pain, frustration, and rage in inappropriate ways. He will never get a grip on his pain, learn better and more mature ways to deal with life’s crises, and end up ruining his relationships with you and other people.
Go to counseling. You deserve it the way plants deserve water and babies deserve love.
Oh, Eggshells… I don’t know how you managed for that year and a half. I give you points for working so hard, but seriously, Sars is right – no matter what, it is NOT right for your spouse/significant other to treat you like garbage and/or an emotional/physical punching bag, EVER.
Of course you’re angry! You just spent the last year and a half being battered all over the place, being there for others and not being allowed to feel anything or have any support yourself! Definitely find a counselor, a therapist, someone you trust who you can really talk to. I mean, I could go on for YEARS here (as could everyone, I’m sure), but the point is, you’re not “bizarrely” upset – you’re absolutely normally upset, as I would certainly be! Help yourself here, honey – you deserve it!!!!
Eggshells, that sounds really scary. Your letter makes me feel some anxiety, and I think it’s because, while I haven’t been in such a terrible situation, I have been hurt or disturbed by words that someone later doesn’t remember or claims not to remember. It makes me feel like I’m crazy–this pivotal thing can’t even be discussed because it only exists for me. So that’s why I think everyone’s advice about going to therapy is so very important for you. Your feelings are valid–it even sounds like you have something approaching PTSD, and that doesn’t come out of nowhere. Also, if this went on for a year and a half and he doesn’t remember most of it, you’ll be doing him a service, imo, by getting him into therapy. Poor him and poor you. I hope you get to the “for better” part soon.
Eggshells – I had a similar situation with my husband. We’d been married for about 3 years when he got involved in drugs – it seemed out of the blue at the time, but in retrospect, not so much. He was depressed about leaving a job under bad circumstances, trying to reorient his entire career, beating himself up for putting himself in a bad position, etc. Fast forward about 6 months, and he’s got a full-blown cocaine addiction. It took about 3 years, 2 stints in rehab, etc., but he’s back. Finally. He’s finally back to the reliable, sweet, brilliant guy I married. Thank god, goodness, buddha, karma, the universe, whatever.
The hardest thing has been me – readjusting to being able to share the load, learning to trust again without being a dupe, letting myself be mad about the crap we’ve been through without blaming too much (if that makes sense?). I’d definitely recommend counseling for you or, perhaps some kind of support group – your feelings actually sound a lot like the stuff they talk about in AlAnon. You should probably also consider marriage counseling with Will to let him hear your pain in a safer environment. As far as will it happen again, I have no words of wisdom. Maybe, as with addiction, there’s always the relapse possibility. Sadly, there’s probably no right answer – it’ll be a leap of faith either way – stay & hope for the best with a clear eye on “not going through that again” or decide to cut bait rather than risk it. At the end of the day, that horrible decision is one only you can make. But I’d recommend counseling to help you make it, especially after regaining your equilibrium & confidence. Hard to make sane decisions when you still feel crazy. Good luck.
Good luck to Thirty and Eggshells. While my advice to you is the same – get to a therapist asap – I don’t think it can be emphasized enough. Therapy is a wonderful thing. It takes work and commitment but it is worth every single minute.
I like how you put a letter dealing with nausea with the two cancer letters. Both the letters made me feel ill..
Eggshells, I’ve been there, too. The only difference is that my husband went from his normal self to permanently angry and VERY quiet. I remember that horrible feeling of only feeling safe when i was alone in the house.
Please, go to a psychologist for yourself ASAP, and then either add or switch to marital counseling, as soon as your psychologist recommends.
Getting us both of us back to normal (well, better, actually) took about a year of counseling, and some of that was hell, too. But i don’t think the marriage would have survived, or that either of us would have gotten back to some sort of balanced emotional state if we hadn’t both gone to counseling about the problems.
Eggs–in a similar situation, one of my big problems was that it seemed to me that I was being useful by being a target for inappropriate anger–that though the regular connection wasn’t working, this was some kind of connection and I was doing some kind of caretaking. Now out of the situation, I think I was wrong; I think there is a lot of middle ground between dumping somebody because they’re not dealing with with a stressful situation and accepting everything they do, no matter how shattering. And that middle ground is the best place for both.
So I would add the umpteenth vote for counseling, and a discussion with your husband along the lines of “We’ve both got damage from the reaction as well as from the event, and for our future’s sake, we need to deal with it.” I think there are some great healthy possibilities here, but I also think that you want to clearly identify this as a pattern to *avoid* in future rather than a pattern to replicate.
@Andrea, you hit it right on the head with this:
When it got to the point I used to wish and pray my ex would beat me, just so I had a “real” reason to kick him to the curb, I realized how far down he had crushed my spirit.
I remember telling my sister that it would be easier if he’d just hit me, because I *knew* that was f*cked up and would kick him to the curb. To this day, my fam thinks I exaggerated the emotional abuse that finally drove me to leave — they think I”m totally making it up, because they never saw that side of my ex. And I’ve spent the last year and a half trying to rebuild the parts of me I lost in that 12 year relationship. It’s hard but it’s worth it.
Thirty – I’m so sorry. How incredibly terrifying and lonely to have this information. You are dealing with it really thoughtfully, and you deserve a medal for that.
To second what Laura said, it may be calming to remember how incredibly rare Li-Fraumeni syndrome is–acording to the NIH, only 64 families in the U.S. are affected. And while it may be possible that if your husband’s family is affected, screenings won’t help him, I would definitely want to get several opinions on that. Certain cancers (more than others) are associated with the syndrome, so perhaps it wouldn’t be completely futile to regularly screen for the certain cancers most common to Li-Fraumeni.
I guess what I’m saying is that before you go through too many scenarios in your head, tell your husband and see a genetic counselor together, as Sars and everyone have suggested. It sounds like you’ve really done your research, but even reputable medical sites can contain controversial or outdated information–particularly on something as rare as this. It may be possible that his family is not, in fact, affected, or even if they are, that you can do more about it than you think. Best of luck to you and your husband.
Thirty — I understand that this information you may have is scary. And your worries are completely valid given your husband’s family’s history. OTOH, worrying about it is not going to change anything. So yes, take reasonable precautionary measures. Make sure that your husband has all of the appropriate check-ups and screenings (well, he should do that himself actually). But after that? Let the worry go. Yes, that is far easier said than done. But life doesn’t come with guarantees and you cannot live your whole life waiting for the bad stuff to happen. That will just make you miserable.
I can barely remember anything at all from the past year and a half, only that I lost my job, lost my friends, and I still don’t know where my personality is. With a shock that great, you lose YOU, and half the time you’re acting like you think you should be acting (but without any perspective, it’s like a drunken marionette’s idea of action), and half the time you’re acting out of panic that everything else will be gone, too. You push everyone away because the thought of losing them is too immense and because they can’t do anything at all to help and you already feel like a monster for grading them on the Why Couldn’t It Be You scale. It’s not appropriate behavior, at all, but it is completely understandable behavior.
Therapy can help, but most of it is trying to learn how to adjust to his new identity, how to fit his perceptions into the new world, how to not be afraid. I doubt the behavior will ever reappear, because it sounds like he wants to understand what happened instead of just completely ignoring it.
Coincidentally, during that time, I learned that I may have the gene for a disease that isn’t preventable, treatable, or curable. I declined having the tests done, and even now that I’m more level-headed, I do not want to know. Knowing, to me, seems like having a calendar with black x’s on it, marking down how long I’ll be able to have a normal life. I especially don’t want to know in case I reproduce. You take a chance every time you have kids, and a genetic disposition shouldn’t dissuade you. If you’re only aware of it as a possibility, you’ll be alert. If you’re aware of it as a certainty, you’ll stop yourself from having kids that could be fine, you’ll grow to resent your husband, and you’ll let the disease own you. I recommend sharing your concerns, not getting tested, staying on the lookout for warning signs, and living your lives in spite of the disease.
Hey Eggs,
He’s a med student, so he’s going to take the Hippocratic oath to do no harm. Sounds pretty hypocritical of him, pun intended. Get out.
What would you tell your best friend to do? I read once that every letter to an advice columnist contains the answer that the writer knows is the right one. Your own answers appear at the end of the letter. Will he do this again, you ask? Honey, you *know* he will. In fact, as you hint in your letter, he still *is* to some degree, isn’t he? You don’t say how long it’s been since things have been “sort of” okay, but you say that the awful period lasted 18 months, and then later you say that “for the last” 18 months, you’ve been on eggshells, so… basically, ever since you got back from the honeymoon, he’s been a controlling, abusive, childish dictator.
My advice is to tell everything — EVERYTHING — to your mom, or sister, or best friend. You don’t need to “protect him” from their silent judgment. Just tell someone who knows you both, for advice from someone you trust. You’ve asked a stranger, but you should be talking to people you love. You sound lonely. No one knows the hell you’ve gone through, and you see your family probably once a year. *His* family is great, sure, but they’re… his. Tell someone who loves you everything this man did to you. That person will tell you that you didn’t deserve it, and that he has learned he can treat you like that, and that he’ll do it again, and that you need to get out.
I’m a lawyer, so I tend to think of these things in terms of contract law. You thought you were marrying one type of man. Turns out you married another. It’s like you bought what you thought was a new Corvette with leather seats, but you got it home and it was a used Corvair with engine knock. If that happened to you, you would have grounds for voiding the contract, right? And this is the same thing: you entered your marriage contract under a mistaken belief about the fundamental nature of the man you married. Your contract is voidable. No one in your family or his should judge you for either demanding what you thought you were getting or voiding your marriage contract, any more than the man at that car lot could blame you for either demanding a Corvette or your money back.
And here’s a piece of advice no one’s mentioned yet. Do NOT have children with this man. You want your daughter to watch you treated like this? You want your husband to lash out at your daughter the way he lashes out at you? You want your daughter to grow up and find a man just like your husband? Honey, take the Pill *and* use a diaphragm — one he doesn’t have access to and can’t sabotage.
Dear Eggshells, imagine that you have a little apartment all your own. Imagine you can come and go as you please in it. Imagine every detail about the life you live in this little apartment without this man. Don’t think about your friends and family’s opinion of this alternate universe, just imagine a Saturday afternoon in this apartment. If he doesn’t want a cat, imagine you have a cat. If he doesn’t like your taste in TV, imagine you can watch “90210” without reproach. If he doesn’t like Chinese food, imagine a pu-pu platter. Imagine walking on the floor of your little apartment instead of on eggshells around this man. Got the picture in your mind? Good. Now, how do you feel? (You feel good, right?)
Now go get that feeling. You’re not even 30 yet. You want to live like this for the next 50 years, without exhaling, waiting for the inevitable next eruption?
Do it now. If you don’t do it now, you’ll have to do it in 10 years, but then you’ll have to share custody of your children with this man. Do it now, get a little apartment, enjoy being single for a while and working on yourself, and then go find a Corvette. Do it now, before he graduates medical school and you are entrenched with a mortgage and kids and your life as “a doctor’s wife” and you’re in too deep to even imagine life without him, in too deep to even imagine a Saturday afternoon in which you can do anything you want.
Do it.
Thirty,
Full disclosure: I’m a genetic counselor, although cancer is not my specialty. I agree with Sars that there’s not much else you really can or should do before sharing your concerns with your husband. This is his family history and only he can really decide how far he wants to pursue this. I will advocate that seeing a cancer genetic counselor is probably a good idea, if (and when) he is interested. Genetic counseling does not always lead to genetic testing, but they are going to have the most up to date information about likelihood of a diagnosis, potential screening, pluses and minuses of testing, who to test, etc and can talk you through the process, so it’s a good place to start for more info even if you/he are not quite ready for the testing piece of it. One thing they will probably want is more detailed information about his family history. You don’t sound 100% sure about his grandmother’s leukemia diagnosis or what type of tumors his uncle had, and that kind of thing (plus their ages at diagnosis) can make a big difference in how likely li fraumeni or any other cancer syndrome is. Again, I would talk to your husband first, but if he is open to looking into it, he may want to try gather this information, ask about other known relatives with cancer, see if family members would be willing to sign record releases to obtain their records & path reports to share with a genetic counselor, etc. If you haven’t stumbled on it already, there’s a pretty good review of Li Fraumeni on http://www.genetests.com. If you need to find a genetic counselor in your area, he could either ask his doctor for a referral or you can search for one at http://www.nsgc.org.
Chiming in with my sympathies for @Eggshell and @Thirty, but also for poster @Susan. It sucks enough that you had to go through that without the extra suckage of your own goddamn family not believing you.
Thirty, I’m so sorry, I hope more medical info helps.
Eggshells, Have you made an escape kit yet?
I think you should give various forms of counselng a try. ( I am a counselor) But I also think you may need to be working on your escape kit. Duplicate sets of keys, credit cards, stashes of cash and any necerssary medications. So when he takes the keys, you can still get the hell out of there while goes to the bathroom or sleeps. The next bad time might not come with any warning, and you need to keep yourself safe. Good luck.
@eggshell, People keep the habits they’ve learnt are okay. He’s learnt that it’s okay to treat you like this, because he didn’t have to face any consequences to it– or at least, none that he couldn’t live with. And you’re habituated to being treated like that, so that’s what you’ll expect even if he’s not acting like that now. If you give him a pass, he gives himself a pass and that means -and maybe he doesn’t consciously think this, but subconsciously at least- that he thinks its okay to act like this to you.
Otherwise, why would you let him?
Grief or not -and I’ve known some people who have gone through some hellish times- that’s still not an okay way to treat people, you don’t get to self-medicate your grief by making someone else suffer.
I agree that you need to talk to people, professionally, but also personally. Yes, you say you don’t want to get mutual friends caught up in it, but if they’re mutual friends, that means they’re yours too. It sounds like you’re isolating yourself to protect him, when he was doing a great job of isolating you already. You seem to be giving him rights over your friends, rights over taking bad stuff out on you, rights to get over this, and… well, he doesn’t have any of those rights. He’s not entitled to being well thought of by your friends if he didn’t earn that. You need to know that it was not okay for him to treat you like this, he needs to know that, and you both need to know that it won’t happen again– either because he gets help or because you get out.
One thing, if he says he doesn’t remember, has he ever been really confronted with it?
You really deserve better than this and you always have.
Eggshells,
I’m so sorry you have been alone in this. You deserve to have people on your side. Now that you have some online support, please find a good counselor who can help you in person. Marriage counseling will probably be needed but please take care of your own serious wounds first.
I also would tell at least some of the details to a trusted friend or family member. If they end up thinking a little less of your husband, that is his fault, not yours. Having someone in your life who knows that there are problems with the marriage could be supportive. You do not need to keep this a secret.
I hope you are back to walking regularly in good time.
Thirty, I’m so sorry about your situation. I don’t have any kind of experience to compare to it, but I do know what it’s like to suddenly find yourself facing this kind of issue at a young age – my husband was diagnosed with MS a couple of years ago and I also had the whole ‘oh my goodness, this is it for the rest of my life’ reaction.
You have to talk to your husband about it, though, and support each other through it. The decision about whether or not to have kids is a big one, and something we’ve also thought long and hard about (there’s nowhere near the same hereditary risk in my husband’s case as there may be in your husband’s case, but MS is a sucky disease and people whose parents have it are far more likely to get it themselves). There’s no wrong or right answer, but this is something for the two of you to decide together.
Eggshell, you sound like a trooper for dealing with your husband’s issues in such a supportive manner. I think counselling would be good for both of you, though – he needs to realise that his behaviour back then has had negative consequences now. I would say to trust your gut to some degree, though. You shouldn’t feel scared of the person you’re married to.
I don’t think Eggshells is hesitant to leave because she thinks other people will judge her. I think she’s hesitant to leave because, until what she perceives to be his massively dysfunctional and inappropriate reaction to the enormous stress of a slowly dying parent (which may very well be the worst stressor he will ever face), it was a happy relationship, and her hope is that it might be able to be a happy relationship again.
In a way, the fact that she’s considering leaving is what makes me comfortable with the idea of her trying counseling. I agree that the controlling behavior is very troubling and requires addressing, but at the same time, she clearly knows and is prepared to act on the idea that this is no way to live her life. She’s not going to live like this until she’s 50; if she still feels like this after she puts in an effort to save her relationship, I’m pretty sure she’ll be gone. She’s already able to write the words “If Will and I split.” How hard to try is a complicated question, I think.
A lot of marriages do have very dark periods from which people recover. For some people, it’s just as difficult but ultimately rewarding to stay as it is for other people to leave. If nothing else, I think she will feel better and less conflicted about leaving if she gets into therapy first.
I don’t think she wants to know whether she can justify leaving; I think she wants to know whether she can justify staying. And on these facts, I think there’s good reason to stay long enough to get into therapy.
@Eggshells,
in my experience an abuser only gets worse, until either they do something horrible or until the victim puts a stop to it. I finally had my husband of nearly 20 years arrested. He had been verbally abusive for all but about the first 2-3 years, and had added in the controlling behaviors, isolating me from family and other friends, and eventually the physical attacks. I kept covering up for him, all the usual excuses, really no excuse for why I put up with it. I finally snapped when, for no good reason other than that he was in the midst of another drunken raging “lost weekend”, he kicked my cat (who was sleeping on the floor and not doing anything wrong at the time). Since he’d been beating on me for several days, I had lots of bruises to show the EMT at the corner firehouse where I ran for help. And to the police, who came to take my statement and then went back to my apartment to make the arrest. And the bruises were still showing a few days later, when I asked my supervisor at work to take snapshots, which I gave to a lawyer who agreed that the physical abuse was grounds for a speedy divorce. It took me several years of long-term group therapy and intense caring attention from my friends and family before the nightmares became manageable, but now I’m much happier than I ever was then. It’s been 14 years since my divorce was finalized. I still run into my ex now and then, and he doesn’t seem to have a clue why I don’t want to be friends! He’s still the same a&&hole but I no longer have to live with his abuse.
Bottom line, try the counseling, both of you, and if it doesn’t get results, RUN.
@ Thrty,
Does your husband’s family all live in the same general geographic area? Sometimes cancers cluster around sites of nuclear accidents, toxic waste, water pollution, etc. I’m thinking of the residents of Chernobyl, Nagasaki, Love Canal, and even areas as large as Long Island (where breast cancer is supposedly far more common than elsewhere). It could be that somthing other than genetics is behind the family’s bad luck.
For both of you, I wish you good luck and bright happy futures.
@eggs-You know what? Shit happens in life-to everyone. Sooner or later, everyone goes through some horrible period in their lives, losing a loved one to a fatal disease, losing someone in a sudden accident, job loss and financial hell, etc….you can’t get through an average lifespan without going through a period like this. And not everyone deals with that by taking their pain out on their significant other and turning into a controlling, emotionally abusive asshole. Does going through that shit give you license to be testy, stressed out, irritable, closed off…yeah, a degree of that is understandable. But, angry to the point your family lives in terror of setting you off? Controlling to the point that loved ones can’t go out unaccompanied? No. Unacceptable. UNACCEPTABLE. No adult has license to act like that towards another adult. Dealing with stress of all kinds is part of adult life. Sounds like your husband hasn’t joined the rest of us here. I agree with everyone else, counseling.
And, julie touched on having kids and your husband acting this way toward your daughter. Look at the other side of the coin too. Say you have a boy. Do you want him to grow up watching your husband treat you this way? Learning that its acceptable to terrorize your family just because you are very, very sad? Fast forward 25 years-do you want your daughter-in-law to be writing a version of your letter to Sars?
@Eggshells – your letter brought up a lot of memories for me. I also lived with an off-the-rails emotional abuser (and actually also had a letter published in the Vine – I have searched and searched but no can do? I remember an exact phrase, but nada….). I too kept silent because I knew friends and family would judge him. It wasn’t until after the fact that I realized – duh – they would judge him because it was wrong! Because he was abusive!
Tell people. You need that support. It hurts so much to not have a safe space where you should – at home, in your marriage – and you need to find that safe space elsewhere. Talking to friends and family will help you to breathe, to get a handle on what you need to do.
As for me, I left after four long, long years of marriage. I came to a point where I was done feeling guilty for wanting to leave him, helpless as he seemed. From time to time he emails me nasty, vindictive things, but it doesn’t bother me, because I no longer HAVE to deal with him. He’s not my problem anymore. It’s the kind of peace I would wish for any person in a similar situation.
I just wanted to say that Tomato Nation continues to attract the most amazing posters EVER (IMHO). Seriously – so many of you have survived bad situations and you’re willing to share your experiences to help someone else (and maybe help others avoid going through these experiences by learning to recognize warning signs!).
You are all awesome!
Thirty, I had the same reaction as robin, in wondering if environmental factors might be at play in your husband’s family as opposed to genetic ones. Of course, that reaction might be from reading A Civil Action or a couple of John Grisham novels. Still, it’s worth considering, no? At least that’s something you can respond to with action.
Hi Eggshells,
I’m with Julie…. there are wordings in your letter that make me think the situation is still pretty bad, and certain specifics like driving you everywhere, and not remembering these incidents really set my hinky alarm off. I agree with all the therapy recommendations, but I wonder if it wasn’t for his mom dying if the advice given would be so wait-and-see.
If my friend or sister came to me with your story, Eggshells, I would say move out first, and then get therapy. If Will is willing to do couples therapy, there’s no reason you can’t do it from separate addresses.
Good luck and stay safe.
@Eggshells: I could have written your letter as well, and I think a few people here are going off the rails a bit with the GET OUT NOW thing. You’re angry, yeah; you get that you’ve been mistreated — but from your letter, it sounds like he kind of does too, especially if he’s asking you to talk about it. Maybe he really truly just does not know the damage he’s done. This was my situation. Once we got to counseling, I was able to let him know, in front a licensed professional, all the shit he put me through, how I felt about it, and how I’d dealt with it (basically not relying on him for any emotional support anymore). Since there was a professional sitting there validating everything I had to say, he believed it — and now we don’t need a professional in front of us for him to believe it and respect what I say (and vice versa). There are no guarantees that everything will work out, but let me give you a light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel moment: at our second counseling session, the therapist asked me: “Do you love him?” And I said “I don’t know” and burst out crying. We also talked about my not relying on him for support anymore. Walking home together from that session, my husband said, thinking aloud, “Well, if you don’t love me….. and you don’t need me….. why would you stay with me?” PING. He GOT it. We’ve worked on it together ever since, and our marriage is stronger now, coming to the end of our thirteenth year, than it ever was in years five through seven. You love your husband. It sounds like you trust you husband. Go do this. Again, there may be no PING moment, but there won’t be one at all if you don’t try.
Thirty, I was kind of on the other end of a similar situation. I knew about a genetic disorder in my family and decided to get tested for it for the sake of my unborn children. When it turned out I wasn’t a carrier, I was actually very angry for awhile for reasons I couldn’t explain. That’s a long story not worth going into…
When I did have a child, he has shown himself to be quite the medical challenge, in no way relating to the genetic disorder I was tested for. But I don’t care, I love him just as strongly, if not stronger for the ordeals he’s gone through.
My point it, genetic predisposition for cancer or no, there’s still no telling what you’ll get in the crap shoot known as having kids. You could find that your husband does have the genetic predisposition and you could still have a completely healthy baby, you could find out he doesn’t and end up with a child with a cleft, or a defective heart or with a genetic disorder you didn’t even know ran in either of your families, like Brittle Bone Syndrome or Kroizants or even Edwards syndrome. In terms of starting a family and having children, try not to over think it, is all I’m saying. An unhealthy baby is not the end of the world is what I’m saying.
I know that might not help you cope with the idea that you could lose your husband by thirty, but it’s just something to keep in perspective….
I sat for an hour saying I would not jump into this thread, but here I am anyway.
So far the responses to Eggshells had been predominantly “run girl before he does to you what (fill in ex- here) did to me. And that’s an understandable reaction. And part of me wanted to the same thing. But I am not. Here’s why.
I am currently very happily married to my fourth (yes, I said fourth) husband. I have experienced the type of situation that Eggshell did – twice. Had I only dealt with Ex#2 I’d have been 1st soprano in the “Run Girl!” chorus. But I dealt with something similar with final hubby.
Egg, you are very justified in being pissed – either way no one deserves that shit. Your mom didn’t deserve the shit when you were a teenager and needed to vent on someone and you didn’t when his mom was dying.
But I think Linda had a point as well. There was good for 4 years before, and he appears to want to get back there. I say hit the counselor for you, and couples counseling after.
The big thing is to go in with an open mind and speak honestly. I hope that you experienced a shitty bump in the road of your relationship and weather it well. Just make sure that you are honest enough with yourself that if you NEED to get out you do.
Good luck, hope this helps!
Eggshells, I’ll second what most everyone has said here. You have an enormous generosity of spirit to have taken such care of your family in such a difficult time. Now it’s time to take care of you. I won’t try to armchair diagnose something like PTSD, but you did say you’re afraid, and you deserve to move beyond that fear. A counselor, a doctor, and/or a psychiatrist can help you with that.
One thing I think you need and deserve, though, is an *informed* apology from your husband. You deserve to know that he understands and acknowledges what he put you through, and that he is sorry. It sounds from your letter as if he would be willing to put in the work to get to that point, and if so, then I would say that there is hope for your marriage, and reason not to throw in the towel just yet.
Most of us have behaved in a destructive fashion at one time or another, either toward ourselves or toward someone else. The important thing to know is that we can learn methods and acquire tools to manage stress without harming anyone or anything. It’s a part of growing up, of becoming a better person, and good people continue doing this all their lives. Seeing a counselor is not just about talking it out, it’s about learning those things, when a situation is urgent enough that figuring it out on our own is not an option. Think of it as taking a class in a foreign language just before a trip abroad. You don’t have time to do it on your own, so get a formal assist. Keep in mind that if your husband is truly engaged in loving you and working on your relationship, then it is possible that he can acquire the tools he needs to never again visit upon you the trauma you have experienced.
I would also suggest that you consider pharmaceutical options as well – talk to your doctor or therapist about whether that would be appropriate to your situation. If you use a crutch when you break your leg, you’ll heal faster. Anti-anxiety meds work the same way. You’ve been injured – do what it takes to heal. You deserve it, whether you are with your husband or not. You have my admiration, respect, and best wishes.
Eggs and Thirty, please add me to the list of people who admire your courage in persevering.
Eggs, I wish I had know you when this started to share one of the best pieces of advice I ever got – and I hope it might help you or someone else in a difficult time. I had just been diagnosed with cancer, and was facing major decisions of the life changing kind — it made me a quite nutty. I found a group that put in touch with a survivor that had similar circumstances, and she recommended I find someone I could vent to, be ridiculous with, get mad at, yell at, pick a fight with – the whole mild end of what your husband wound up doing to you – and that unless I was going to actively hurt myself, not to say “That’s a bad idea!” or “Your being really hateful right now” but to simply say “I know” or “I understand” or “Feel better now?”.
But the trick was to tell the person that I needed to be able to do this with her, and that she needed to find someone to do the same with – vent about my irrationality, the horrible things I said, the bad choices I was making. And then that person needed someone to vent to – one person for each of us, in a chain that went as long as it needed to be – and no one was to talk about the venting to anyone else (unless, again, it got to the point of I was going to hurt myself).
I picked my mom, who I’d had a rocky relationship with before this, and she picked her oldest sister, and I think she picked another sister to talk to. In my calmer moments, I checked in with Mom – thanking her for putting up with me, making sure she was talking with her someone. And Mom had a sounding board for “Am I over-reacting when she says X” right there when it was happening. There were things that she did bring up (out of the heat of the moment) that we would talk about why I did or said something, so things didn’t build up as they did for your family. And, I’m so grateful to be able to say, we went from a rocky relationship to her being my rock, and now that I’m getting better, her being able to rely on me for things, and be her pressure valve. We have an absolute trust because of a bad situation that could easily have wound up where she was scared of me. This also kept everything out of the family gossip mill, and everyone knew it was not because I was a horrible person or that I hated my mom (or her me, because I wound up saying some awful things) – it was us trying to get through a bad situation.
I never wanted to be emotionally abusive, or irrational, or a bitch. But at times, during the worst of it, I probably was, and I HATE it, even though it is understandable, and that I had that “pass” you mentioned. But this gave us a way to deal with it, to know it wasn’t personal, and to keep me from going over that edge to somewhere my relationships with my family couldn’t come back from.
From what you say, your husband, if he was fully aware of his behavior, probably would feel just as horrible about how he treated you. He needs help to see what happened, and both of you need to come to terms with what it means to your relationship, and if you are safe to stay with him.
I hope that you and your husband can find a therapist(s) who can help you see if your relationship is repairable, and give you tools to cope with any bad situations that come up down the road. I’ll be thinking good thoughts for you, and hope that you’ll let us know how you’re doing.
There was an interesting article in the NYTimes recently about how people who found out that they were positive for the Huntington’s gene went on to be more content than people who knew it was possible but never had the test/found out the results (Hello life imitating House!). Anyway, a lot of the anxiety you and your husband are feeling is totally normal. Even though he doesn’t know about this syndrome necessarily, a part of him has looked at his life so far and is definitely worrying about the possibilities. While knowing in your case won’t necessarily provide concrete answers, talking it out will go a long way to easing back some of that panic. Just having someone acknowledge the things you’ve been thinking privately is very empowering.
@Eggshell: Well really @Randy’s Girl–I’d like to back this up. Egg, was this normal behavior for him pre-illness? Or things like this? Because I totally understand your concerns for how he might react to things now. But if…I don’t know, you going out, or him getting lost while driving didn’t lead to total emotional meltdowns previously, then I definitely think counseling is the answer. Esp. as it does seem that he is aware of his behavior, though maybe not quite how bad it was.
While I totally understand the reactions of some posters, I do think we need to cut him some slack. Not everyone handles things “appropriately.” And yeah, his behavior was not cool. But the point is, no one knows–not really–how they’re going to react to anything. I had no idea how I was going to react to my mother’s death until it happened. And I have no idea if I will behave the same way when my father dies. So, if you had no indications of abusive behavior before this, I think there’s a lot of hope for both of you, provided you get therapy (I would personally suggest grief counseling over marriage counseling at first, but that’s me).
Lots of good advice here. Eggshells, if you decide to pursue counseling, I would take the approach Stephanie E. suggests: Get your own place, then start counseling. (I agree with Randy’s Girl — individual as well as couples, because you need a place to process where you and your feelings are the only focus.)
But please don’t feel like it’s totally up to you to save this marriage! Will has to buy into this effort for it to work. You can’t sail this ship alone. And don’t turn yourself inside out trying to figure out what to do or say to replicate the four good years you and Will had together before you two married.
You didn’t do anything to make Will go off the rails, and some people who are capable of being abusive don’t display a lot of red flags early on in a relationship. In fact, abuse can start at any time in a relationship. Sometimes it starts after marriage because the abuser feels that his/her victim has made a commitment and is less likely to walk out than before. Other times, it starts after the woman becomes pregnant, because the abuser doesn’t want the unborn child or resents the attention the mother is paying to the unborn child.
A dear friend found herself in the latter scenario. Everyone loved her husband and thought he was a great guy, but when she got pregnant, he became rjealous of their unborn son and abusive of her. It wasn’t until she was divorced that anyone of us knew the extent of what had gone on.
You’re in my thoughts, and I wish only the best of you. You’ve already displayed a great deal of strength, and I admire you! Good luck.
Thirty, do not have your husband discuss this with his regular doctor “first”. Do not go to a genetic counselor “right away”.
If you decide to pursue this, then do all testing and medical work by paying IN CASH, not with a check, not with a credit card, not with your health insurance. Do not use any doctors, nurses, or labs that you know. It wouldn’t be unheard of to go to a different state. Use a pseudonym. Be very, very careful about the doors you are opening.
Once your husband tells your regular doctor, it will be in your husband’s medical record forever. You don’t want it in there.
Once your husband gets the genetic testing, and let’s assume it is positive and that your husband does have what you suspect, then he and you will never again be able to fill out a health, life, disability, or long-term care insurance policy application without fully disclosing it. Frankly, he likely will be uninsurable. As your unborn children may be.
It might affect your ability to get future employment as well as your husband’s.
These things can bite you in the ass forever. Consider this dynamite and treat it as if it were unstable.
@Eggshells-I too lost my mother-in-law to cancer about two months after the wedding. It’s an awful situation, no matter how you slice it. You’ve gotten the best advice possible–get yourself to counseling. Get both of you to couple’s therapy. That is NOT OPTIONAL. It took us two years of hard work in counseling to recover from the year after his mom died. But the good news is that we’re in a better place than we have ever been. Yes, there were some really really low times when I wondered why the HELL I was still married, but when I finally told him just what had gone down from my perspective, he really stepped up to the plate and went to therapy and worked really hard to deal with his issues.
Only you can decide if you think it’s worth the effort and hard work. Because it is really hard work. And you can’t do that work alone. Either he’s in 100% and doing the work he needs to do, or he’s not being fair to the marriage or to you. You did what you thought best at the time–don’t kick yourself about it. What he did was NOT ok, no matter what the circumstances. You have every right to demand he go to therapy and work on issues until YOU feel safe.
A caveat–if you do not feel safe in your house with him, then RUN don’t walk to a friend’s house–get the hell out. That doesn’t mean you can’t work on your relationship, but if you are afraid for your safety, then some distance and protection is a GOOD thing. Take care of yourself first.
Thirty here. Just wanted to thank Sars and the readers for their thoughtful advice and kind words. Some time has passed since I wrote my letter (bound to happen when you write to a popular advice columnist!) and shortly after writing I did to talk to my husband, because my own anxiety was getting out of control. He was much less freaked out than I was, and we’re working on next steps.
It’s helpful to see so much agreement that bringing up this kind of concern was the right thing to do for the marriage, and not just me being selfish. (My best friend telling me the same thing was what eventually got me to talk to my husband about this.) The family I grew up in was not very communicative, and I think I may have gotten some skewed ideas of how to deal with information that might upset someone you love.
@AmyNewman, you’re right to have concerns about genetic discrimination by health insurance companies and employers, but that kind of discrimination has been prohibited under GINA (the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008). For more information: http://www.genome.gov/24519851
GINA does not apply to life insurance, disability insurance, or long-term care insurance, however. Some states also have their own laws about this sort of thing that may cover more than GINA does.
Thirty, I am so glad you posted to let us know how you are. It is great that you spoke with your husband and that you’re working together on this. It’s not fun to feel all alone and isolated.
Which brings me to Eggshells. I grew up in a household with violent tempers and I don’t think I took a real breath until I went to College. Everyone here has given you a lot of great advice. Counseling is definitely something you should look into, but I also think your husband should move out of your house for awhile so that you both have space, and it will give you a chance to “reclaim” a sense of security and safety in your home. Once you are in a better place emotionally, you will be able to make the decision about whether to reconcile with him or leave him.
And your husband needs therapy asap- life is always going to throw challenging and upsetting things at him, and he needs to learn better coping skills.
So reclaim what is yours- find a safe place, take a breath and stomp around without fear!
Thirty checked in! I love this place.
I’m so glad it’s all in the open, Thirty. Whew. I was nearly a widow at 21 & the what-ifs can take over your whole world. Try to enjoy your lovely life, though…there’s no guarantee your husband will fall ill, and there’s no guarantee he won’t be hit by a meteor. Life’s such a crap-shoot & that’s part of the fun. (And your best friend is the BEST!)
Egg, look here: http://tinyurl.com/syeot and please seek counselling.
I would also suggest you take a self-defense course, too, just in case. (When my ex pinned me to the fridge by my throat, I totally kicked his ass. That class was worth every cent.) I wish you the best from now on!
to Eggshells- I went through something similar when my boyfriend’s step-father (closer to him than his biological father) was diagnosed with cancer.
I spent so much time worrying about being there for my boyfriend, who was worrying about being there for his mother, that we devolved into the same kind of cycle, although not as severe of a situation. Anything I tried to say felt like I was reproching him for his grief or adding to his burden. I felt it would be a breach of trus to talk about something so personal to him with my friends- who are all his too- so I internalized it to where my own work suffered and I was even reprimanded by my boss.
His stepfather died two years ago today.
Reading your letter makes me realized how close we were to becoming that, and far we have been able to come since, although it wasn’t easy. Please talk about it with your husband, and don’t let fear of his anger keep you from speaking your feelings and expectations. Easily said, harder in the face of the moment.
Hi all, this is Eggs.
Thank you so, so much for all of the advice and support. Especially after not talking with anyone about this, it really means a lot to feel like people are rooting for you. On the advice of people here, I talked with my mom about all of this. I even ended up pointing her to this letter, which was more composed than I was at the time (at which point she asked me if I knew you all in real life, because people were being so kind and thoughtful. Aw, my mom loves you guys). That has helped a lot, too.
I’m making an appointment with a counselor next week. I talked to Will about it, and he’s agreed to go if I tell him we have to, but it clearly freaked him out a lot – he seems to think marriage counseling is something people do when they’ve pretty much given up, so we talked a lot about why I wanted to go. It clearly makes him really nervous (which made me nervous. Sigh). But, he agreed to go if I want him to.
He is much better than he was. He’s gotten good about stopping when he gets upset, and saying to me calmly that he’s not really mad, just frustrated about something, and it has nothing to do with me, and am I ok? (should that end with a question mark? I have no idea.)
And no, he wasn’t like that before his mom got sick. If he had been, believe me we wouldn’t have gotten married. I’m not worried for my safety (though I do now have my own car key).
Thank you all again for the support. It’s really touching, and helps so much to have people say they get it, or have been there, or just generally are sending good thoughts my way. I’m getting myself to a counselor, and I’ll be bringing Will with me soon. Thank you all again. You guys rock.
Eggshells, please, please read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft.
The Vine is not only amazing because Sars gives such sound advice. It’s also amazing because the quality of the readership is so high — such an unbelievable group of smart, caring, authentic, supportive people read and comment here. On the internet, there’s no end to the number of places that *could* be good, interesting, worth frequenting, etc., but they are overrun by [expletives] and [other expletives.] The Vine, though, is like a magic oasis of wisdom and goodness. All the best to Eggs and Thirty. Thank you all for being such nice human beings, and for really caring about other people who are genuinely seeking advice. The Vine helps me maintain my faith in humankind when real 3D life hands me lots of crappy group situations that make me scratch my head. Thank you for that, guys. And Sars, thank you for being here. You’re one hell of a gal.