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The Vine

The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: June 24, 2004

Submitted by on June 24, 2004 – 9:59 AMNo Comment

Hi! I love your website, and your advice, so I’m hoping you can help me with something. It’s not a huge problem, but it’s one of those little niggling things that you can’t get rid of.

I’ve been going out with my boyfriend for eight months, and for the most part everything’s been great. However, about a month ago I was doing research and he sent me a link to an article posted on a forum he frequents. I already knew that he’s a frequent poster at this site, and I knew that its topic was relationships, but I have never looked at it out of respect for his privacy. However, when he sent me the URL, I just couldn’t resist, and looked around the rest of the site.

For the most part, I didn’t have a problem with anything he had written. He’d only said nice things about me, and although I blushed a bit at details of our sex life being shared with strangers, I understand the anonymity of the internet, and didn’t overly mind. Besides, even before I looked I promised myself that unless he said something that I’d never be able to ignore (e.g. “I just cheated on my girlfriend”), I wouldn’t punish him or call him on anything. The only part that bothered me was one post in which he mentioned some of the things that he had done for his ex. He said he used to leave her flowers on the bed, make her picnics, and leave notes in her locker. He even wrote her poetry. The most poetic thing he’s ever written me was “For ____, Love M.” on the card with the one bunch of flowers he’s ever given me.

His lack of romantic gestures never bothered me before. I’ve never really thought they were that important, so it wasn’t an issue when I thought he just wasn’t the type of guy who did things like that. However, now that I know he is that kind of guy, I can’t help but wonder what’s different about me that he doesn’t feel like doing things like that.

I don’t have much experience with guys, and I could be missing a very obvious explanation for all of this, but I’ve been able to rule out pretty well all of the explanations I can think of. We’re both young (19) and in university, so I understand that he probably doesn’t have the money to buy flowers and things like that, but I don’t understand why he’s never done any of the other stuff. I doubt he got burned by his ex, as he broke up with her, and they’re both on friendly terms. I’m very sure he isn’t cheating on me, or doesn’t really love me or anything like that, and now I’m kind of out of ideas.

So, here are my questions: 1) Is there a good explanation for this behaviour that I’m just missing? And 2) Should I ask him about it? I’m hesitant to ask because I feel like I really shouldn’t have looked at the forum to begin with, and if I told him I had, I would worry that it would make him have to censor himself there in case I was watching, which I don’t want. Also, I feel like asking will just sound like I’m demanding these types of gestures, which is not what I want. I really don’t care about getting love notes or anything, and I especially don’t want them if he’s just giving them to me because he things I expect them, which is what I think he’ll do if I bring it up.

Am I making too big of a deal over this? Is it something I should just ignore and try to forget?

Confused and Possibly Overreacting


Dear Overreacting,

Try to forget it.First of all, he did these things for his ex, and look what it got him — they broke up.No, it’s not the most mature reasoning in the world, but it’s possible that he’s now conditioned not to make that type of gesture.He’ll probably get over it, but in any case, it’s not about you; it’s about him, and you can’t take it too personally.

You especially can’t take it too personally if that type of gesture isn’t really your thing in the first place.Every person and every relationship is different; if this is the first time you’ve felt like maybe he’s not giving you what you want, acknowledge it as a result of reading that forum, and forget about it.

And don’t read that forum again.Ignorance is bliss, right?


Dear Sars:

I have a problem that is embarrassingly high school in pretty much every single aspect, but one that seems rather significant at the moment, and that I would like some outside advice on.

Last year, I met “J.” He seemed nice enough at the time, although we didn’t seem to have much in common. We actually got along then, although I (or anyone else, for that matter) didn’t appreciate how he would get — for lack of a better word — preachy with anyone within a ten-foot radius about his religion (he’s Wiccan).

This year, however, things have gotten out of hand. He’s made no secret about hating common friends that both I and another friend share, despite the fact that he’s never met them; he’s also expressed contempt several times towards I and “N,” another common friend of ours — in her case, her religion (she’s Catholic), and in my case, my character. He’s also prone to rants on how society discriminates against homosexuals — which we all agree with, but he has just gotten way out of hand with. He can be quoted as saying “damn heteros,” saying they were all closed-minded and bigoted, and such. Seeing as how we all have other gay friends and I’m bisexual, I think we can hardly be accused of being homophobic, but the fact that he’s saying that they’re all terrible people is a horrible generalization.

He’s upset other friends of ours, “O” and “M”; we’ve made numerous attempts to tell him how he’s making all of us feel, M in particular, but he seems incapable of taking a hint. O, N, and I have also tried excluding him from our group more than once, but it never seems to work.

What do we do now? M is the only one of us that has any classes with him, and that’s only one; however, O, M, and I have been eating lunch with him since the start of the year, and it would be difficult to cut him out now. He doesn’t take our hints, and he doesn’t pay attention to anything we say; what can we do?

Hopes This Isn’t Usual Teen Angst, But Realizes It Probably Is


Dear Hopes,

Yeah, it probably is, and as time goes on, J is probably going to get some perspective and not hold himself up so rigidly against the rest of the world — but that doesn’t help you right now.

I think you need to make it crystal-clear to J that he can believe what he likes, but if he can’t button it with the trash talk, he can find somewhere else to eat lunch — or the rest of you will.Before you get to the threat, though, tell him why you’re making it.Tell him that it hurts your feelings when he slags you, that it puts you in an awkward position when he does it to your friends, that you don’t think it’s right for him to tar all hets with the same brush when he’d freak if hets turned around and did that to him, and that you’re done.He tones it down or he eats under a tree in a courtyard by his lonesome.

Again, I see what he’s doing; it’s a part of figuring out who you are and where you fit, and a lot of people go way out to the edge and then track back to the center once they feel more secure in their identities.It’s an important thing to do for a lot of people, but learning that that pinko crap wears on others is also an important thing to learn, and while J doesn’t have to compromise his beliefs or go along to get along, he does have to decide how important it is for him to be the house ACT-UP radical if even his friends are like, “Dude, let up.”

I mean, if it’s that important to him, let him do some work in the community to reflect that instead of haranguing y’all.


Sars the wise, I seek your advice.

Recently a supervisor pointed out to me that I had
been misspelling the word
“uncollectable/uncollectible” on status reports, a
word frequently used since the company I work for is a
collection agency. My spelling is with an “a,” hers is
with the “i.”

Neither spelling appeared at all in Webster’s spelling
dictionary (the only thing handy in the office),
spell-check at work accepted both spellings as
correct, and spell-check in this email (newer software
than work) is telling me the “a” is wrong. Which is
it? And if indeed the “i” is the correct spelling,
which it appears to be, why in blazes is that so when
the meaning of the word is “not able to be collected”?

And while you’re at it, since it’s probably related
anyway, why “edible” and “credible,” but “movable” and
“adaptable”?

I’ll use whatever spelling they want (it’s a job, not
a spelling bee), but the question is plaguing me.

Thanks,
Able To Ask A Question, Not “Ible To”


Dear Able,

The 11C lists both as equally “acceptible” (hee), so “collectable” it up.

I don’t know why it’s “edible” and “credible,” except perhaps that those verbs in Latin have an “-ere” ending in the infinitive, which would suggest “-di/-ditum” endings for the past tenses…which, now that I’ve looked it up, is sort of true, but that doesn’t explain “adaptable” or “movable.”

It’s probably got more to do with pronunciation evolution and is one of those things, like the short first “i” in “bilious,” that doesn’t make intuitive sense to us now, but probably did at one time.


Hey Sars,

Regarding your recent Vine column about adverb usage,
I have a question.I am a (so far unpublished)
writer, working on a novel.I have been to workshops,
writer’s groups and creative writing classes where
it’s been literally pounded into my head that the use
of adverbs is considered “lazy” writing.

For example: “You’re gorgeous,” he said huskily.

or

His voice was husky when he growled, “You’re
gorgeous.”

I’ve spent a lot of my writing time agonizing over
every adverb — and have nearly purged them from my
novel.

What’s your take on adverb usage?

Curiously,
A Recovering Adverb-oholic


Dear Rec,

I use a boatload of them, so I guess my take is “pro,” and in the example you cite, you really have no choice but to go with an adverb if you want to get the “husky” idea across — except that “growled” implies huskiness, so in that case you could just write, “He growled, ‘You’re gorgeous.'”

I think the reason teachers tend to tout an across-the-board no-adverbs policy is because, with inexperienced writers, the alternative is worse — you get a lot of clanky locutions (“he huskily said”), unclear antecedents, and repetition of adverbial phrasing that quickly gets dull.You see it a lot in genre writing, actually; those folks often write to a formula in which plot is king, so it’s a bit much to expect fresh prose in a bodice-ripper, but on the other hand, Patricia Cornwell.You just want to avoid a string of “…he said quickly,” “she responded angrily,” “he grunted loutishly,” because it’s boring and sounds amateurish, and the idea behind eliminating them is to make the rest of your writing do the work you might lean on adverbs to do.

On the other hand, adverb-free writing starts to sound like a Hemingway parody.I’m all for muscular fiction, but that can take on a drone just as easily as the other kind.

So, use adverbs.They exist for a reason, as I said in my previous entry — to fine-tune your meaning, to make your verbs exact.It’s why I use so many myself.But you have to make sure the verb isn’t already getting it done, or that it shouldn’t be, and that you aren’t getting in your own way with clutter.


Dear Sars:

So here’s my situation.I’m 26, my girlfriend Shannon is 27.We’ve
been together for six years this July.She’s doing her pre-vet school
work and will be applying soon for vet school beginning in fall 2005.
I’m working in an office and almost done with culinary school.Together
we have debt left over from our bachelors (hers in sociology, mine in
French) and, since we’ve gone back to school, are incurring more debt.
She returned to her love of animals after some frustrating time working
for non-profits, while I have never really figured out what I’m doing.
Currently I’m not sure when I am going to leave my decent office job and
take on a baking position, but I feel much more directed in my
overarching job scheme to eventually get out of offices and into bake
shops.I’m not that ambitious about work or career.I figure I’ve got
like 50 more years of mandatory work before I might possibly be able to
retire, so time is plentiful.

My desire for advice regards timing and money.We are planning to buy
some sperm and start trying to breed this fall, and have given ourselves
a year of trying.Shannon has never had a desire to grow a baby in her
body, whereas I have, so I’m it.My advisor at school (an amazing mentor
and chef and all around kick-ass woman) thinks I should wait a bit
before getting pregnant to really give the baking career a chance, to
really see if I love it and if I’m good at it.Some of my friends have
echoed that idea of putting a career first, of waiting a bit, sort of
the old “what’s the rush?” comment.

But currently I’m excited to try to whole parenting thing instead of the
career, give parenthood a chance to see if I love it and if I’m good at
it.Children have always been part of my future plans and I’ve knocked
around some ideas for timing (starting now, waiting until Shannon is out
of school, waiting until I’m a certain age).But in all these plans,
what I don’t know is how enthralled with the whole process I’ll be.I
mean, I predict that I’ll dig being pregnant and nursing and raising rug-rats, but I’d like to know how much.And I still will work part-time
somewhere, it’s not like I’m going to barricade myself in my house and
knit and nurse a baby and wonder why I’m going insane.I just want to
know if it’s for me, for us.

Shannon is excited, but she doesn’t want me to feel like I’m sacrificing
any opportunities, nor does she want to tell me what to do with my body. I’m a bit worried that we might go nuts with money and time stresses
but again I just keep returning to feeling more excited to try.Perhaps
I’m just telling myself what I want to hear.I’ve read all sorts of
books about having and raising kids, but maybe I’m totally romanticizing
the whole kid thing.Maybe I’m gonna doom myself to lots of drudgery
and stress, all because I couldn’t wait and be prudent.But maybe it’ll
be awesome, a part of my life like my relationship with Shannon or our
cats and dog that, while not being easy, define who I am and make life
worthwhile, that fill it with laugh and joy.

We’ve got families who will help us buy baby stuff and loan us money if
we need it.We’ve got two cars and a good apartment.I’m trying to
trust my own judgment but parenthood is a complicated issue especially
for feminists, for lesbians, and for the wealth-challenged.I know that
you do not have kids, but I sure you’ve got some opinions.Am I being
selfish wanting to go ahead despite my girlfriend’s and my
work-in-progress lives?Will we doom ourselves and our future
child(ren) to horrible, therapy-filled lives if we have lots of debt and
tight money but lots of love, attention and goofiness?

Sincerely,
Hip mama-to-be


Dear Hip,

Well, yeah, I’ve got opinions.Not one of them is worth a damn, probably, since I don’t have kids my own self, but I have parents and I have friends with kids, so I’ll take a swing at it.

It’s a big job, and from where I sit, the fact that you don’t know for sure whether you can handle it means that you’ll pay full and proper attention to handling it when the time comes.Okay, so maybe you get a little neurotic about some stuff; join the club.No parent is perfect.My mother made more than one bad call in her illustrious career, and she won’t disagree with that contention, probably, but it always came from a place of caring deeply about us, and if that’s the case, well, they’ll get over it — I did.It’s not going to be a Christmas card every minute, but it’s going to turn out fine.

I don’t think there’s an “ideal time” to start a family, really, so much as that some times seem better than others, but waiting for the best possible time…eh.My mother is still saying she doesn’t know what she wants to be when she grows up, which to my mind is sort of cool, so if you feel fairly ready, and you look forward to it, that’s the ideal time, I think, everything else being equal.Two-year-olds don’t get any easier to handle the longer you wait, so why not forge ahead?No, you don’t have as much money as you’d like, but again, it’s not about whether you can cough up a new bike every couple of years.Sure, my parents did that, but my parents also rapid-response-teamed it to our rooms when we woke up screaming from nightmares, and that’s what kids need and thrive on — emotional support, emotional stability, love and involvement.I think the rest of it takes care of itself.

You have a strong relationship with your girlfriend; you’re psyched about a baby.Keep talking and planning with Shannon, trust yourself to make the right decision, and rock that baster.

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