The Vine: June 26, 2013
I work in a large government office for a statewide law-enforcement agency in the South. I’m also an atheist, a fact that I usually keep to myself, because: law enforcement. The South.
Board members who are all devout Baptists, one of whom is a former Christian Coalition Legislator of the Year. Jesus gets brought up here a lot, is what I’m saying.
Three people at work know I’m an atheist. Two are Sympathetic Co-Workers, who are friends and roll their eyes in solidarity whenever our co-workers/bosses get preachy. The third, C, is…someone I should not have told (in a private, non-work-related conversation), and only learned this after the fact.
Recently, a Sympathetic Co-Worker came to me with a heads-up: another co-worker (we’ll call her B) had just said to her that she didn’t like the fact that an atheist was in charge of a housing program involving faith-based providers. Sympathetic Co-Worker has been with the agency a long time and quite high-ranking, so B didn’t just say this to anybody.
Two days later, I was informed by my boss that the Board wants me to give them a presentation on our faith-based programs, and to expect very pointed questioning on it. According to Boss, the Board has never shown any interest or concern for the state of our faith-based programming before, and this request from them came out of nowhere. It should also be noted that 1) C is friends with B, 2) B is very chummy with one of the Board members, 3) B is a pastor who used to be in charge of the faith-based programming herself, and 4) this kind of behavior is not out of the ordinary for her.
While I have no definitive proof, I’m pretty sure C told B about my atheism, and that B went to the Board about it.
Sars, I work very hard at my job. My lack of faith has no bearing on how I deal with our faith-based providers, and I am regularly commended for my work. I don’t talk about religion at work at all, nor am I on any type of crusade to get rid of our faith-based programming. We’re in the South; most of the resources I work with are faith-based by default.
Needless to say, I’m furious. I furious that B didn’t come to me or my boss if she had a problem. I’m furious that she went to THE FREAKING BOARD and undermined my ability to do my job, though I’m not sure if she flat-out told them I’m an atheist or did it in a more underhanded way. I’m furious that I feel like I’m back in high school, and that a grown woman is acting this way.
In some parts of the country this wouldn’t be a problem, but down in the Bible belt it’s a very big deal. I’m worried that this could affect my opportunities for advancement in this agency, because what if I’m up for a promotion and the person in charge of it is very religious (a likely scenario) and she’s spread my lack of faith around to everyone in the top brass? Knowing how B is acting, it’s feasible someone else feels the same way and could try to find a “legitimate” reason to demote me or shuffle me off to another department. If that happened, I have no way to prove it’s because of my religious leanings, so legal action would be out of the question.
I plan on giving the presentation and being awesome at it, and part of me is thinking I should just leave it at that. The other part of me wants to go to B about this, because I want to know who else she’s told and what exactly she’s saying to them. If this were a peer venting about this to other “underlings,” I’d just roll my eyes and deal with it, but this is a person who is pretty much trying to actively sabotage me professionally.
Should I talk to B? I’d probably phrase it along the lines of, “I understand you’ve learned I’m an atheist and have some reservations about XYZ. What can I do to ease your mind?” if I did, even though I’d rather bust her for being such an ass. Basically, I want her to know that I know what she’s been doing, because then she might actually knock it off with the added bonus of making me feel better. I just have no clue if that would be a good idea, or if it’s a good idea but I should take use a different script. Should I even mention anything to C, and if so, what? I’ve never had to deal with petty office politics before and am at a loss.
Signed,
Faithless (now in God AND humanity!)
Dear Faithless,
I wouldn’t mention anything to anyone except maybe your boss, because I don’t see what good it could do, on any level. Acing the presentation might not do any good either, in terms of communicating to B that any shit she’s trying to stir about your atheism making you a questionable fit for your job isn’t going to rise the way she wants to, but then again, it might — and it’s the only thing you can really do. Your job. And if you do your job to the satisfaction of your direct superior — and you don’t say anything here about feeling undermined by him/her, or that s/he’s said anything to you about your atheism or any other doubts s/he has about your performance, so I assume you’re good on that front — then B can go scratch.
It’s seldom that simple, of course, and it’s natural to fantasize about receiving a standing ovation at the presentation, smiling warmly, then observing while looking pointedly at B that you hope this will put an end to distracting wastes of everyone’s time, but…you know. People like B only get shut down like that in the movies.
So, don’t say anything to her, because if she’s in fact looking for a reason to rally the troops against you, anything with even the faintest whiff of “I’m onto your shit, bitch” is going to become that reason. (I know you have a non-confrontational script in mind, but she’s going to sense your resentment, and it won’t go well.) You have Sympathetic Co-Workers, and presumably if B is really on a witch hunt here, the high-ranking SCW can curb that.
Don’t say anything to C, either, because if you point out that she spoke out of turn, she wonders why it’s a big deal, and then she asks other people why XYZ is a big deal, and then all of a sudden it’s…a big deal.
If you say anything to your boss, it should be because Boss asked you where you think the sudden need for a review came from, and even then, reporting on the telephone game is going to make you look just as bad as B. Give the presentation, schedule a follow-up meeting with Boss to make sure everything went smoothly from his/her perspective, talk about how to avoid distracting wastes of time like this in the future, and if s/he’s satisfied with your response, end it there.
It’s often said that the only thing worse for your career than getting involved in office politics is not getting involved, but this isn’t really “politics.” This is a misguided attempt by one person to make her workplace uniformly observant, and it’s neither realistic nor legal, so document whatever you can, but at the same time, understand that giving it too much mental real estate isn’t wise.
I think this is all good advice. But if I were in your shoes, I’d also contact my local ACLU chapter on the down low to get some advice about how to document whatever trouble B stirs up (if any).
If it’s a branch in the south, they’ll have been down this road before, and might have practical ideas that have worked for others (or might know people in your agency via lawyerly networking to bolster your coterie of SCWs.)
Should you have to go nuclear (I wouldn’t recommend it until something concrete happens), the phrase ‘hostile work environment’ might come in quite handy.
Wow. I think Sars is dead on here, as usual. I had a sort of parallel experience where a colleague (head of department) tried to sabotage me at work because I beat his friend to my job. He had me teach on courses he knew I shouldn’t be teaching on and took me off the ones I had always been praised and rewarded for. The only answer is to do a beautiful job while being – on the outside, at least – entirely guileless. Result: you do a genuinely fantastic job and the idiot undermining you has no traction. I know your situation is different, but as you can’t be legally in trouble for your beliefs, just as I couldn’t be for being the better candidate, they are hamstrung. You sound like just the type of person I’d want in that position. You’ll rock it.
I would love to see you post this on AskAManager.org to see what that community has to say. The Nation will no doubt have great perspectives but it’s the workplace/religious freedom/politics angle that would be nice to share with another readership too.
Can I rage about the first amendment here, or are we going to just ignore that?
Sars is right, as always, of course. All I’ll add is that the only thing you can control in this situation is how you handle it, so just handle it like the awesome, together person you are, and do your best to keep your eyes on your own paper. Shit-stirring co-workers are ridiculous and stupid, but I’ve found that most often, my supervisors are perfectly aware said people are shit-stirrers, even if they can’t really talk to us underlings about it. I’d hope that even if your supervisors don’t like every aspect about your life, they can see a non-issue when it comes their way, and once they see your presentation, they’ll know you’re knocking it out of the park. Only shit-stirrers like a big drama, and a big drama is what supervisors are most eager to avoid, so I think odds are on your side here. You’re already the bigger person here, so just keep being awesome at your job – shit-stirrer will get tired and move on to something else eventually. Good luck!
Since you’ve done a good job running the faith-based housing, perhaps some nice faith-based housing people could come to your presentation and say as much?
Always bring back-up, and maybe this will be back-up that talks in a language your board likes to hear.
Ace the presentation, and then see if all this dies down, and in the meantime, document, document, document. Right now start a private journal with names and dates-starting with the date you told C your (lack of) religion, and the date your had conversation with Boss about the presentation. THen keep it up to date with any interactions with B or any other suspicious happenings around the office. Do not confront B directly yet. See how it goes after the presentation.
You work in a government agency-are you unionized? Do you have a union rep? Talk to them now and get htem on your side-tell them you don’t want to take action yet, but you want advice on how to handle this if the situation escalates. If you don’t have a union, talk to your HR department off the record.
Finally, know your rights under the law. Religious discrimination includes discriminating against people who don’t believe in a God, and is just as illegal. Don’t dismiss legal action so quickly-the fact that you confided in C and then this presentation was scheduled when the Board had never showed an interest before is circumstantial evidence, but it is evidence. If it goes that far, at least talk to a lawyer about your options. Many attorneys will do an initial consult for free or very low cost to tell you if you have any cause of action at all.
And if any Board member actually comes right out and asks you about being an atheist, that would be a good time to drop a subtle reminder. i.e. “My religion or lack thereof is my private business and does not affect how I perform my job. Also, since Title VII of the Civil Rights Act provides legal protection to all religious beliefs, including atheism, I think it would be best for all of us if we did not discuss my personal beliefs further to avoid any appearence of impropriety. Can I tell you about our success with XYZ…”
But for right now concentrate on acing the presentation, and then see if that doesn’t shut B down.
I was born in the South, and lived there too long. I think the presentation has a possibility of getting nasty, no matter how well you knock it out of the park. Of course, your religion, or lack of it should not be an issue, and has no effect on the quality of your job. But i still think it could get nasty, with very pointed and precise questions and comments about your faith. You may need a “bombshell” of your own – something to get the attention of the board back to a broader view of helping others than “What church do you attend on Sunday?”
Even Mother Theresa sometimes had doubts about God’s existence; she felt that she had an obligation to help others anyway. (apparently, so do you.) There are videos of her discussing this online.
They may start asking you illegal questions. Playing a short video about Mother Theresa’s doubts may seem off the point ( the point being that the questions are illegal and you are a great employee) but it is exactly what my make the Board members think about the larger issues. If a saint can have doubts, so can you.
Speaking as a proud Southerner who loves living here (still does) and is in the minority because I’m Catholic, I’d like to point out that this sort of thing happens everywhere. And it’s wrong no matter where it happens. From what I read here, I see that this has less to do with geography than with (most likely) a colleague who has some control issues.
I agree with Sars. Rock your presentation and don’t engage with this person except on a professional level.
But I admit that it always pains me to continue hearing and reading stereotypes about being a Southerner or living here or “who we are.” The reality is that by and large we’re pretty decent people and our region, its population and our values have come a long way. Like any other folks in America, we have work to do, but please don’t lump us all into one category. Visit us. Get to know us. Let us show you around if you come South. I love taking my friends from all over the US and abroad to the places that make our region unique. It’s always a learning experience.
Trust me, we know the jerks here when we see them and we don’t think they’re cool or funny. We think they’re jerks. But jerks live everywhere in the US and I try to remember that when I run into them in, say, NYC or Iowa or out West. It’s not the region’s fault.
Now, good luck with the presentation! Go get ’em! If you’re in ATL, hit me up and this Catholic girl will buy her atheist pal a good, cold beer or three and dish on office know-it-alls. :-)
Barb: Unfortunately, if these Southern Baptists are anything like the ones I’ve known (lifelong Texan!) who would even be willing to make this an issue, giving them evidence from a Catholic nun is just about on the same level as giving them quotes from the Church of Satan. I went to a very conservative Baptist high school, and when people found out I was Catholic*, I just got a bunch of challenges on why I worship saints, which are false gods, and how Catholics aren’t real Christians, etc.
I think the moral of this story is that you should never, ever discuss religion or politics in the workplace or with co-workers. Nothing good comes of it.
*My mom is Catholic and made me go through the motions. I wouldn’t have been religious by choice and ditched it all the red hot minute I could.
As someone who lived in the South for a long time, remember that getting confrontational is the exact opposite of what you should do (especially if you are female). Passive aggression is the word of the day. That’s why saying “Bless your heart” is way more offensive than saying “Go fuck yourself”. For your presentation, have answers ready for blatantly illegal questions about your religion (deflect! and I second contacting the ACLU for suggestions on this part). If you have your legalese down they may think twice about going to the trouble of demoting or firing you. Good luck!
I think Sars is dead-on here, but I just want to add: While it probably feels a bit like you’re on trial, you can’t approach it that way. The presentation isn’t about you, but about your job, and approaching it as a trial of your beliefs will likely come across as defensive and unprofessional. Not knowing exactly what sort of providers you deal with, I’ll just say to look at their mission statements and see which of them are committed to diversity. Habitat for Humanity, as an example, is technically a faith-based organization. But they don’t require Christianity of the people they help, the people that volunteer with them, or the people they employ. They’re Christian because they perform acts in alignment with tenets of Christianity, not because they exclude non-Christians. Their mission statement discusses embracing diversity and including people of all races, religions, etc. Most mission statements are written similarly, and such details can really end up working for you.
Just to clarify something-it is not illegal to ask you what your religion is or if you are an atheist. An employer can ask anything-you still have to prove they used the information to discriminate against you in an illegal way.
Word to what Joy and Ferretrick said, but a qualifier: if you go with ferretrick’s script, make sure you say it in a voice that is completely nonconfrontational — as in, matter-of-fact tone, bright open face with no downward eyebrows, honest smile upon completion. If you show them that you think of it as perfectly normal and within the law, yes, it can still turn nasty; but you’re not taking anything personally yourself. You’re not getting emotional and turning it into a New England boiled dinner; everyone else is.
…. which is what you can then refer to if you do, in fact, have to go nuclear. You’ll be able to say in complete honesty that this was your understanding of the law; you took no action against anyone else regarding their own beliefs; you behaved in a professional manner down to the last detail. Trust me on this. You can get as screamy angry and this-is-so-unfair crying when you’re alone, but when you’re in contact with these people, it’s civil, professional, guileless and no gossip all the way.
Well, bless B’s heart.
Honestly. Unless you’re getting bombed at work and staggering down the hallways howling about spaghetti monsters or whatever, doesn’t this person have a job to do?
I agree with Sars. Do your job so amazingly competently that B has no legs to stand on. Unless your company is totally insane, it will value good work over anything else (seriously, people who are great at their jobs can pretty much do anything short of burning the place down, because they do so much for their employer that replacing them would be a nightmare. This is, tragically, why so many sociopaths don’t get canned, but that’s another story.)
I also agree about documenting everything you can in a paper notebook or personal smartphone that you can carry with you and doesn’t belong to your company. You don’t want B or anyone else hacking into your files.
Agree totally with Sars, Kelly, and TexasAnnie.
Be your awesome self, but have your own back. Don’t ask the office to do it for you.
I always wonder how the office drama-makers find time for that AND their work.
@ ferretrick: An employer is not allowed to ask you anything. In fact there are strict laws so an employee cannot just ask you anything. However, usually someone who finds themselves in a situation where an employee ignores these laws has little protection. You can refuse to answer the question, but that doesn’t mean the employer wont hold it against you. Just FYI this is a list of questions that cannot be asked http://www.jbu.edu/assets/cdc/resource/Interview_Documents/Illegal_Questions_for_Employers.pdf
By anything I meant everything under the sun. There are obviously some questions that can be asked.
Sure, ace the presentation. Act like you think it’s an opportunity to shine and not the prelude to a witch hunt. Prepare a few non-response responses if anyone brings up your personal religious beliefs (my personal favorite would be – “since I run our housing program involving faith-based providers, I try not to discuss my personal faith in work contexts.”) but …
and here I might get a ton of disagreement …
If I were you, I’d consider a white lie that softens your outward presentation of being an atheist. My job might be more important to me than saying “yes” to being asked “Are you an atheist?”
So, a response to the direct question might be — a laugh and “Huh? Like everybody, sometimes I have difficulty having faith in the almighty but I’m not sure what that has to with this program so we can talk about it after work some time …”
Sigh, I know that I’m definitely going to be very much in the minority but I’m not sure that any of these people are entitled to a full and truthful answer from you on this particular subject.
Hey, everybody. Thanks for the kind words and advice.
Update: the presentation went great! I, however, was not the person who gave it. The topic came up beforehand with Boss several times as I was putting the presentation together, and I finally caved and gave him a highly-simplified version that didn’t mention names. Boss: “Was it B?” Heh. It turns Boss has had issues with her as well. So Boss gave the presentation (I’m not sure if it was more to protect me or himself) and it went over very well. B wasn’t there to see it.
Also of note: at the Board meeting when the presentation was given, they began it with a prayer and noted that it was a new tradition for their meetings. It’s also illegal as shit, of course, but after that I think the Board’s opinion of having an atheist in my position may not be too far from B’s. I have no plans on filing any kind of complaint about the prayers because I’m concerned about how it’ll affect me professionally. If I ever leave, the Freedom From Religion Foundation is getting a call.
I haven’t said anything to B and plan to keep it that way. She’s making it easy for me, considering she hasn’t spoken to me in months. She doesn’t return my hellos when we pass each other in the hallways. Classy!
SCW recently retired, so I’m left with only one real ally in the office on this issue. I won’t discuss it with anyone else.
Ferretrick: We’re not unionized. I have dates and notes on what has happened so far, but I don’t plan on pursuing any legal options unless someone directly asks me about my faith. Even if I had given the presentation myself, I don’t think the Board would have brought up the topic and just grilled me on the intricacies of my job instead. A few of the Board members are former attorneys; they’re religious, not stupid.
ML: I’ve had to listen to someone go on a rant about how Catholics aren’t “real” Christians, so I feel you. I know not everyone is like that, but working in an agency whose employees generally lean to the conservative/religious side of spectrum amplifies everything. You can hit me up at faithlessanon@gmail.com if you want.
The one saving grace (heh) in this situation is that I’m the only person in the agency who knows how to do my job. I’ll keep doing it well and keep my mouth shut for the time being.
I have to smile when I read about the notion that Catholics aren’t ‘real’ Christians. When I attended a Catholic college (not being one myself), a question I got asked way more than once was “Do Protestants believe in Jesus?” That kind of thing is everywhere.
Thanks for the update, Faithless! Keep the, um, faith! (Metaphorically speaking, that is)
So glad your boss is on your side. Keep being your awesome self. I’ll never understand what possesses people to think they are being good Christians when they pull these moves.
@Attica, I hear you. I was raised Lutheran, with church every Sunday, catechism class, confirmation at fourteen, even went to a Lutheran college; when my never-went-to-church before sister-in-law was “saved” about ten years ago, she was suddenly terribly concerned that I might not know what the Trinity is. Sure. Especially since the church that saved her is the kind where she has to wear dresses (because women in pants make the baby Jesus cry) and her hair below her shoulders (because short hair is too… manly? Assertive? Frightening to aging control-freak white men?).
Anyway, Faithless, you totally rock, but I kind of hope you find something better. No workplace is without politics; but surely someone with your talent and professionalism can find one that isn’t quite this tetchy.
Just seconding ferretrick–the questions that you can’t ask, posted above, aren’t actually illegal to ask–the only one that is illegal is inquiring if an applicant is disabled. (Even the source university doesn’t claim they’re actually illegal–though that’s a weirdly cobbled-together list, what with the British “trade union” term and the questions that are legal in some states but not in others.) It’s stupid to ask them since there’s no good reason to and plenty of bad if there’s other evidence for discrimination, but simply asking is not in itself illegal.
Questions about religion and family status, etc, CAN be grounds for discrimination in dealing with an employee and a employer should NOT be asking these questions without the possibility of being sued for discrimination. Discrimination is NOT only for disability.
Jessica–of course discrimination isn’t just for ability. But the laws are specific to the form of discrimination they cover, so the rules depend on the relevant law. It’s been found to be illegal to ask “Are you disabled?” under the ADA, but the ADA only covers disability. Title VII, which covers race, religion, and sex, doesn’t forbid asking an applicant’s race, religion, or sex. It’s still dumb to ask, because there’s not much reason other than discrimination to ask it and it can be held against an employer if there are discriminatory actions reported later. But merely asking isn’t grounds for a complaint, and it’s not illegal–unless the question is about disability (and of course the employer has to have at least 15 employees, because those laws only apply to workplaces of that size or larger).
Family status is not a federally protected category in the US, so it’s federally legal not just to ask about family status but to discriminate against people based on marital/family status–so long as there’s no disparate impact against people for reasons that are legally protected (and of course so long as you’re not in breach of any state or local laws, since there are states that do make family status a protected category). If you only want to hire single people, the feds don’t care. (I’m assuming that you’re in the US, since you cited a US employment guide–if you’re elsewhere, the protections may be completely different.)
I don’t think anyone else mentioned this, and I assume this is just a typo, but I really like that the date on this letter is June 26, 1013 — as though Faithless’ issue is/should be that archaic.
Speaking as a Christian – it never fails to appall me when I hear about situations like this one. Since when did religion (or lack of interest in religion) affect a person’s ability to do a good job??? And I realize that, as a lifelong New Yorker, that I have no concept of what life in the South can be like, but it just boggles my mind – this is a government agency, and they’re pulling this crap?? Ever heard of the separation of church and state, people? Starting a meeting, at the office, with PRAYER?
YIKES. I have nothing against prayer. But I sure as heck ain’t gonna push anyone at the office to pray with me.
I’m glad to see there have been some decent developments for you though (obviously your boss has “B”‘s number). I hope things go well for you. Don’t lose faith in humanity… as you can see from this board, there are a lot more people for you than against you!
Almost a week, and I didn’t notice. Amazing.
I know the immediate situation is past, and the law is on your side and all. Obviously. But certain people will… not necessarily see that as an impediment. It might be interesting if you could, on a casual basis, appeal to an authority that they will respect. Because, frankly, I could easily write a 5 page essay on why this is wrong from *within* a Christian worldview.
Off the top of my head, I’d consider one person trying to get another fired as a violation of “Thou shalt not steal” (7th commandment or 8th depending on the numbering system). Throw in bearing false witness (even if it is not false to say you are an atheist, implying that such a fact impedes your ability to do your job is). The parable of the Good Samaritan, among other things, puts paid to the idea that the only neighbors who count are the ones who share your religious beliefs. I could go on. What are they going to do? Argue against the Bible?