The Vine: June 6, 2012
It’s another one of those “what do I do with him” letters with probably way too much back story.
I’ve been with my boyfriend for almost 5 years. We started dating a year after I divorced. I have two children, a 13-year-old son and a 9-year-old daughter.
For the first two years, all was beautiful. We were all happy and content. Come year 3, bad things happened — I developed sepsis as a result of an infection. While in the hospital for 12 days, I was also diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Thankfully, all that was healed and I’m healthy now. Boyfriend was awesome — supportive, took great care of me while in the hospital and helped me get through the months afterward while I was recovering. Point of note — he did not interact much with my children — their dad is pretty great and my parents pitched in to help out there, and it did bug me that he didn’t help much with the kids but I let it go ’cause I was so sick.
After I felt better, I really wanted to concentrate on the future and wanted to talk marriage. Boyfriend balked, saying what we had was fine and he wasn’t sure about being a stepparent because of his experiences with his monster of a stepmother. I was suffering from some pretty severe PTSD after all the illness and became very co-dependent and clingy. Boyfriend became distant and avoiding. After what was undoubtedly the worst holidays of my life, he broke up with me in January of last year.
Cue the depressive nervous breakdown, seeing a fantastic therapist who helped me see that I’d smothered boyfriend who’d also been terrified of me dying, my finding myself again and becoming happier than I’d been since the illness. By September, I was ready to date again and move forward. Mind you — Boyfriend had never stopped emailing, texting me — we even had dinner a couple of times. He was always insistent that he didn’t want to be married to me, be a stepparent, but he couldn’t let me go as a friend.
Last September, I was at a football game with a girlfriend and two guy friends. It wasn’t a date at all but I ran into Boyfriend at the game. He tried to kiss me and I wouldn’t let him. He asked if I’d meet up with him and his brother after the game to hang out and I refused — I explained I was with friends, we had plans and I was going to hang out with them. The next morning, he called — almost hysterical. He said he’d considered suicide the previous night because it had just hit him that he’d thrown away me, my kids and a whole life together and he wanted to try again. Please please please could we. I was totally shocked. After all, just that previous May, I’d kinda asked him why he kept seeing me, he indicated he’d love to get back together but not with my expectations of marriage, the stepparenting, etc.
Of course, like a dog who can’t get enough beatings, I tentatively eased back in. I insisted he keep going to therapy and pushed for couples counseling. We went once but the therapist felt Boyfriend needed some time to work on his issues and then bring me in. That did not happen and after the therapist flaked on two appointments, Boyfriend quit seeing her and we haven’t looked for another.
Boyfriend asked for me and the kids to move in with him and said he wanted to get married too probably as we moved in together. I was thrilled. It wasn’t a proposal but it was good. We started improving my house and getting it ready to sell and I really felt like he was committed.
We are now six months later. Boyfriend has made some significant changes in himself — I see that he tries very hard to be open and talk when he’s upset rather than hide and avoid. He doesn’t interact with the kids as much as I’d like but he has tried to be more involved. So, what’s the problem?
When I bring up any concerns about our relationship, he accuses me of having “insecurities” and he feels “like he can’t do anything right.” These aren’t insecurities — they are concerns I have I want to discuss (usually about him not spending time with me and my children). When he consistently refuses to spend time with us, isn’t it natural I’d feel concerned given the history? Also, I’ve asked about marriage. But he’s “not ready to talk about that or do that.”
So, he wants me to sell my house, move myself and my children in with him and he now refuses to discuss marriage — telling me he’s still not ready and he doesn’t think I am either. I feel like I’m being asked to give up my biggest financial asset and have…nothing. If something happens again where he freaks out over responsibility, he can just kick me and the kids to the street and I have nothing financially stable. If something (God forbid) happens to him, his family (who highly disapprove of their precious older son being involved with a divorcee with children) would have no problem kicking me out. If there’s another medical crisis, legally, we are nothing to each other.
I’m really feeling done here. I am tired of trying so hard — to work through all this, to forget all the history, to give up the idea I’ll ever be in a secure marriage with a man I dearly, dearly love. I am ready to pitch an ultimatum — at least let’s get engaged or sign power of attorney or SOMETHING — or I’m done. I’m tired of waiting for something that apparently will either never happen or has to have so many perfect conditions that it’s an impossibility — like he’s setting us up to fail.
Sars (and Nation) — do I walk? Does this relationship seem viable? Aren’t we way too old for this drama?
Tired of Settling
Dear Settling,
Boyfriend is content with the level of commitment he has now. It doesn’t ask too much from him; he doesn’t have to give anything up; you say it’s not enough for you, but your behavior indicates to him that you’ll tolerate the relationship as is. Yeah, occasionally you have to have a fight about it, but then he rolls out the insecurities line, and that’s the end of it. I don’t think he does that on purpose, or in a manipulative way, but he has learned that it works, and that he won’t have to produce a ring or a pre-nup or anything else that raises the game.
And there’s nothing per se wrong with the relationship as is; not everyone has to get married, a guy can act as a parent without a piece of paper, blah blah blah…except, of course, that you aren’t happy, and the guy in question isn’t really doing much parenting, and to paraphrase a sage ex of my own, for this relationship to continue, someone will always have to be unhappy.
You two don’t want the same things; that’s that. You don’t really say whether the kids have gotten attached to the guy, and the fact that you don’t mention that as a factor in your decision-making is probably all the answer you need. Boyfriend loves you; he wants to want to create a new family with you and your kids; it’s just not something he actually wants. For some people, that does change or evolve over time and depending on the circs. But for others, it doesn’t, and you’ve had more than enough time to see whether it might. With him, it won’t.
It’s not about you, or how he feels about you, or that you want too much from him. You’ve done nothing wrong here; you’ve hoped, is all. But what you’re hoping for is not coming.
Now, if you decide you can live with the status quo, hey, go for it. That means the status quo, though; I would definitely not move in with the guy, not under the circumstances you describe. If he wants you to give up your home, he needs to up the ante, and not just a promise ring and a nebulous “let’s get married…later.” Paperwork and a date. Cash on the barrel.
And again, you won’t get that. I would say that even asking you to move in is him trying to buy time, because he loves you, but it’s not just you and he’s not sure he can carry that whole package. I have been him, so I don’t judge the guy, and I can tell you he feels like shit that he can’t be something he isn’t — but he can’t. Break it off. Taking another run at the relationship was understandable; sometimes the time off does move the ball, emotionally. But sometimes it’s just like, “We really care about each other — why can’t this work out?” and as unsatisfying as “because it…just can’t sometimes” is, you’ve got to accept it and move on to the next thing before you both get really bitter.
Short-term, take the house off the market. Tell him you’ve got to protect yourself and your kids, and you don’t trust him to come around on the marriage thing. Tell him also that he needs to go back to therapy, where maybe he’ll learn to listen to your concerns instead of immediately guilting you out of the conversation.
Or tell him you’re done. Not meanly, just: done. “I have a family. You want just me. That’s not realistic, and I’m done pretending for you. Goodbye.” It’s tough, and he’ll be sad, but I’m betting he knows it’s coming, and it’s time. You tried, and nobody “failed,” but for it to continue…you know. So, don’t continue.
Tags: boys (and girls) kids
It’s time to let this go.
I know that sounds cold and “easy for me to say”, but sometimes even the most profound or upsetting experiences can’t bond people the way they want to bond. And even the most P or U experiences can’t really change who people are.
They can make you rethink, reconsider, try again, start working out, climb a mountain, etc. But they can’t make you want something you don’t really want. He really wants a version of you that just doesn’t exist.
The whole “Move in together sell your house” line of magical thinking is just more of the same “If I sacrifice/If she sacrifices this much, surely it will force his/my head into the right space!” It won’t. After the intital euphoria of “finally moving ahead” the same old problems will pop up, but this time they’ll be even more stressful because of the financial burden you placed on them to “train” them to be something different. They won’t be.
I know it feels like you’ll never love again, etc. and that’s true to a certain extent. You’ll never have THIS love again. But you will have your life, and all its upcoming adventures and heartbreaks and milestones and time wasting, and they won’t be half-sepia toned from being washed out by not being loved for who you really are.
And for the love of god, do not let him guilt trip you with a suicide threat again. When I hit that part of the letter all of my hackles went up. From where I sit, he basically emotionally blackmailed you back into a relationship with him.
Please don’t sell your house and move in with him! You and your children deserve better.
If you like hanging out with him, then keep seeing him. There’s no reason not to date if you both want to. But do not combine households casually. And that’s what you will be doing, if you just move into his house. You’ll legally be less than a tenant. If you had no dependents and wanted to take the risk yourself, then, hey, you’re an adult.
You’ll have minor children for almost another decade. Your children need a secure home. They have one now. Please don’t throw it away for a man who is telling you exactly who he is and what he wants.
I won’t go as far as saying you have to ditch him but let me point out that he’s expecting you to do all the work: sell your house, move in with the kids, make this whole thing work despite his earlier reluctance. On top of that, he’s not taking your concerns about his previous gun-shy attitude seriously. He’s not coming out smelling like roses, there.
If he really wants to move things to a new level, it isn’t too much to ask that he move in with you, because: (1) minor children, who probably have a set routine that they would be uprooted from, which is a lot to ask from a teenager and a pre-teen and (2) minor children for whom you are responsible custodially and financially.
Either he understands that such concerns are going to limit your own flexibility about his plan to move in (“If you really want to move in, why can’t we move into my house instead?”), or he won’t. That in and of itself might convince him that perhaps a parting of the ways is for the best for everyone involved.
Right, Nadine! The fact that he told her he considered suicide because he “missed her” is a red flag. The fact that he is not in counseling is another red flag. Emotional manipulation isn’t a sign of a good partner.
You need to step away. You are putting your children’s future on the line for someone who has shown that he isn’t committed to your family. @meltina is right — why isn’t he moving in with you guys? Why does everyone have to come to him? You two might love each other but you also love your kids and you’re their only protection so please put them first and walk away from this guy.
I may be over-emphasizing the wrong parts, but he IS able to talk about you selling your house, about you moving in, things that leave you with no financial security. He isn’t able to talk about anything that makes him even the tiniest bit emotionally nervous, nowhere near insecure.
This situation is unbalanced. Nothing you said suggests that he is seriously committed to making the communication or situation equally balanced.
Moving in with him is just asking for a situation that leaves you with nothing secure.
Oh right, the counseling thing. Does Tired have first-hand knowledge that the therapist flaked, or did he tell her that? Given that the boyfriend has a track record of avoiding conversations where he might have to work on something, I’m skeptical that the flaking was really on the therapist’s side.
The therapy thing sounded really strange for me too (that the shrink thought he had to work his own issues before working together, and then he stopped going). This whole thing isn’t really good for Settling, and it’s clear that she knows it, otherwise, why the letter. Listen to your instincts and don’t do something for yourself and your family that you feel you will regret (because all the signs point to that).
I think Bev brings up a great point. He won’t even talk about things that make him uncomfortable, but you are supposed to sell your house? I know I don’t know all the facts, but from my perspective (I’m 51) if he really wanted to be with you, he would, fully. I know marriage isn’t for everyone, but it is something that is extremely important to you, and he isn’t honoring that. Not to mention, 6 months ago marriage was on the table, and now it isn’t? I really hope, for your own sake and your children, that you move back into your own place, and truly think if he is the man you want in your life.
I’m not saying “Go dump him,” either, but I think it’s important that you are your kids’ primary caregiver. He may not be intentionally emotionally manipulative, but that is the end result. This is not a relationship that you want your children to emulate when they’re older. If he won’t take steps to fix it or concede certain matters because of your situation (he should be the one moving in, not you) it’s not a great message to send to your kids.
I absolutely do not believe that the therapist flaked. I believe he invented that because it became clear that the therapy was going to be hard in a way he wasn’t ready to face, but he was also not prepared to own that to you.
You ought to consider going back into therapy yourself. You need help stepping outside this situation with enough objectivity to make sane decisions for the benefit of your children. You have to make your decisions based on who he is, not on who you want him to be, or even who he wants to be.
Until you can accept “this is who he is” without hoping that he will change more, do not do anything to destabilize your kids’ lives. Do not live together, in either house.
And while you are in therapy, figure out why the suicide event did not trigger huge red flags for you, before you got sucked back into this mess.
P.S. Sars, the sage ex of yours was very wise!
The suicide comment made me squirm too, and not just that he made it, but his trigger for making it. Everything was going fine as long as “fine” meant the occasional dinner and lots of texts. Then came the moment when Settling wouldn’t give him the instant affection he was asking for, and wouldn’t change her evening’s plans to suit his. Suddenly it’s “Oh woe, I’ll die if I can’t have you.” Combine that with treating any question about their relationship or their future as “oh, you’re just being insecure”, and it’s emotional blackmail. Don’t care if he’s doing it on purpose, he’s using Settling’s concern for him to get what he wants. And not wanting to spend time with her children means he only wants a relationship with Settling as “The Woman Who Loves Me”, and he’s just going to close his eyes to the existence of Settling as “Mother”. If she sells her house and moves in with him then sooner or later he’s going to realize those two people are one and the same, and their history indicates he’s going to bolt.
If there’s one thing I learned when I was a single parent, it’s that kids can learn as much from a parent’s breakup as they can from a parent’s successful relationship. Also, they can learn a lot of bad things from a parent’s bad relationship. Like, say, that they should maybe put up with more than they actually should. You call yourself “Settling”–would you want to hear your children call themselves that when they’re older and dating too? Of course not. So for that reason and of course all the usual brilliance from Sars, be a role model and let this guy go.
I think he’s got problems, and you and your kids are not the answer to them.
Bottom line, you may be two very nice people, but this is a bad match. It’s had plenty of chances to work out, and it hasn’t. On-again, off-again relationships don’t progress; they just stay on a spin cycle.
Finally, you’ve shown that you can settle for less. It’s time for you to move on, and settle for more.
I hope you let us know how things turned out! I’m pulling for you.
Honey, he is not going to marry you. Ever. I could have written your letter 12 years ago. If that’s what you want, you need to move on.
I’m saying dump him, already.
I get that you love him dearly, but there is no way this works out the way you want it too, and to my mind, prolonging it by more counseling and discussions creates too many opportunities for more obfuscation of what’s clear: He doesn’t want what you want. You want what he won’t give.
Put paid to it.
I read in another advice column recently that wanting desperately to “save” a relationship often distracts from whether the relationship is even worth saving. You want to make it work because you love him. But you guys are not on the same page. He’s okay with progress as long as you do the heavy lifting. So far, he hasn’t proposed, and yet you are still hanging around. It isn’t wrong for you to want marriage, nor is it wrong for him not to want marriage. You disagree, and that’s reason enough to call it quits.
And please think about your kids. You say he still doesn’t spend time with them, even after all this time. Have you thought about how your kids feel about his disinterest? Do you really think your kids will enjoy being uprooted to live with a guy who isn’t enmeshed in their daily lives? I’m sorry, but being uninterested in a stepparent role is a dealbreaker. He needs to show, not tell, if he’s serious about change. You are a package deal, end of story.
Keep your own house, and if you decide to break up, make a clean break and stop seeing him/communicating even as a friend. It creates too much messy gray area that has already proven detrimental in the long run.
I read in another advice column recently that wanting desperately to “save” a relationship often distracts from whether the relationship is even worth saving.
Yes. Love is not in fact enough, sometimes. It’s infuriating and depressing, and rationalizing not ending it is totally understandable and can go on for a while and you shouldn’t beat yourself up for it. But it’s going to end, and if you end it now, you can end it well.
I agree, attica. Sticking around is positive reinforcement of negative behavior. At the core, you want different things, and those different things are too much to compromise. End it and cut off contact for a while.
I keep thinking about that Maya Angelou quote: The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them. And in this situation, it’s past time for the both of you to start recognizing this. You’re both showing the other who you are, but neither of you is really believing what you’re seeing.
Another thought – IMO, relationships aren’t supposed to be this difficult and anguishing. Of course there’s work involved, but not to the degree that is illustrated in this letter. Now what comes to my mind is Meat Loaf’s “Two Out Of Three Ain’t Bad.” I had a relationship like this once upon a time – we really liked and cared for one another, but we couldn’t be everything the other person wanted or needed to make it go forward. Just because you love each other doesn’t mean it’s meant to be, or could be, or should be. Accept that you’ve taken this one as far as it was ever meant to go, learn from it, and move on.
Finally, as a mom, your first responsibility and priority is to your children, and nothing about the situation you’re describing sounds like it’s good for your kids or in their best interest. Moving them in with an emotionally unavailable man who doesn’t really desire any kind of meaningful relationship with them…who has an unstable, difficult, fraught relationship with their mother…giving up their home and neighborhood and all that is familiar to them, and along with it, their mother’s financial and geographic security. You and your children deserve so much better than this, and you’re never going to find it while tangled up in this situation. For your sake and theirs, please don’t settle for less.
This is all great advice. I think the only thing I would add is if he pulls the suicide card again, especially if he calls you and tells you he’s going to do it, tell him you’re calling 911 immediately. If you think he’s serious, do it and tell him you’re doing it.
If it’s emotional blackmail like it feels the first time was, he’ll back down. Then you tell him if he ever pulls that again, you will call 911.
Some folks may think that don’t want to go this far when dealing with suicide threats, but my friend Chris shot himself in the head and left me to find the body. My friend Susan attempted suicide and it was only through the fast action of another mutual friend that she’s still alive. Suicide is no joke, it’s a very serious, very permanent solution. It shouldn’t be used as a way by someone to get what they want.
Emotional blackmailers/manipulators back down when they know you’ve seen the game. And they move on, so be prepared.
“I’m really feeling done here.”
I think that’s your Best Self (TM Oprah) speaking, and I think you should listen to her. Like Sars said, it seems like you each love a version of the other that isn’t the full, real, current version. It’s time to move on, and I hope you find someone who will love the complete version of you that includes your children, and who wants to love and commit to you and them for the rest of your lives.
I’m with attica and K. on team “dump him, already.” Whenever you talk about what you want out of the relationship, he calls you insecure. There are a lot of wonderful, interesting people in the world who would love you and who you would love. You will be able to find one who also wants the same things you want in life, and doesn’t guilt you for wanting them.
I also agree with K. on cutting off contact. I don’t think you’ll be able to really move on if you stay “friends” with him; last time you ended up back together once he realized you might have a nice life without him. It’ll be better for both of you to end things fully.
I’m with Sars on this one – it’s time to move on. If you’ve been dating this man for more than 3 years and he doesn’t partake much in your kids’ lives, then why on earth would you move in with him? If you are going to be with a man, either in a dating relationship, moving in, marriage, etc. and you have kids, that’s a package deal. Right now he doesn’t want the package deal so it’s time to move on.
By the way, I find it odd that seeing you with another man suddenly triggered this great I WANT YOU BACK episode – only he got you back and he’s still pulling the same crap. Oh sure, he wants you to move in but other than the possibility of co-habitating, has anything else actually changed?
He wants X and you want Y. While it would be nice if you could compromise, it doesn’t sound like either of you should. He isn’t ready for marriage and kids, while you are ready and have kids. Time to hug goodbye.
Even if he gives into under pressure and you DO get married, saying the vows isn’t actually going to change him into a different person. You will continue to have concerns about various aspects of your married relationship: not The Future, but about spending time together, money, sex, parenting, communication, all the stuff that goes along with a long-term committed relationship. All the dynamics to produce a breakup are still there, only now it’s a really lousy breakup with 100% more lawyers.
As a matter of fact, that’s going to get worse for a while if you get married or even just move in together, because you’ll have logistics on top of emotions. If you’re already struggling to resolve communication issues between the two of you, you’re not ready to go navigating the early days of household sharing or family-blending.
I would suggest telling him you’re going to hold off on selling the house, end of conversation, and drop the marriage talk for now as well. If he wants to be married, he’s an adult and he can figure out how to meet your needs. Don’t do his relationship homework for him, but do set yourself a due date for it, and let this go if he doesn’t turn it in.
And if he does pop out a ring, remember that’s not a guarantee in itself either. Before you say yes, agree that you will actually get married just as soon as the details can be arranged — like, a couple weeks to book cheap tickets to Vegas. Unless you’re planning a big wedding, there’s no reason you shouldn’t get married within 6-8 weeks at most.
If he’s not ready to commit to that, you two are not ready to get engaged or married or to stay together. Long engagements are good for keeping people from rushing into hasty marriages, not so much for two mature adults who have a five-year history together. If he isn’t ready now, another six months or a year isn’t going to make a difference.
My advice: you absolutely cannot be with him.
I’ve been through something very similar. Him being hysterical about missing you is just a moment that will pass. If he were actually serious about wanting a future with you, he would propose. And, with a guy like this, you have to get a ring from him or you won’t know he’s serious.
My impression is that he really enjoys the relationship he has with you but doesn’t WANT to get married or be a stepparent (issues with his own stepparents aside). Five years is PLENTY of time to know whether you’re ready for marriage, ESPECIALLY after having gone through a tragedy like you did together. He just doesn’t want to marry you. That’s the truth.
If you move in with him, you are throwing away the potential for ending the relationship if he doesn’t want to get married. That’s probably why he wants you to move in… he gets what he wants and gets some security that you will stick around for a while even if he doesn’t move forward.
Let’s say he does propose and blah blah blah (which I find very unlikely). If you marry him, you must accept the fact that he doesn’t spend a lot of time with your kids. It’s probably because he actually doesn’t like them that much.
It sucks that you have to deal with this, and I’m sorry.
This guy? Is not the guy for you. He is basically putting up billboards that tell you exactly what you need to know – all you have to do is look up and read them.
The suicide thing alone would have sent me running for the horizon. You just don’t DO that to another person, ever. That is deeply, deeply uncool, and is emotional blackmail/manipulation (as has been said above). Not cool.
Also – he doesn’t spend time with your kids and that’s fine if you’re just dating but you want to marry this guy? What for? And what do the kids think about this situation/this guy? They’re not babies, they have to have some idea of what’s happening and I guarantee they have opinions about it. What do THEY think?
The longer this drags out, the more you are going to hate each other when it comes to its inevitable conclusion. Get out now and perhaps, in time, a friendship would be possible, but this guy is not the one for you.
Hi Nation and Sars,
LW here. First of all, spot on advice as usual Sars. EXACTLY what the ex said – someone would always have to be unhappy and the compromises we would need from each other would have led to anger, resentment and just worse issues.
When I wrote this, I was genuinely on the fence about the relationship.
However, after an outing when B/F did not return calls/texts for almost 22 hours, blew off plans we had made for the weekend – I knew I was done. He knew it was done. And I said the words, “Despite everything, love is just not enough to save us. We need to call it off.” And I walked feeling lighter than I had in years. And I even managed to cut off most contact – he still emailed/texted increasingly desparate messages (no more suicide threats, I made it clear that was NOT something I ever wanted to hear again). Then, 5 weeks after the break up – he showed up at my work – with an engagement ring.
Readers, I did not take the ring. Even a marriage could not have saved us – he was only proposing because that’s what he thought would get me back – not because he wanted a future with my kids and me.
And – I’m happier and more content than ever. I have built a life – not with a partner which would be nice and may happen someday – but with my fabulous kids, friends, work and (of course) pets.
Thanks Nation and Sars! Anyone else out there on the fence like I was, I hope you take a hard look at the compromises and make your decisions well.
Oh, ToS, thanks for checking back in! Congratulations for ripping off that band-aid, as well.
Can I just say that showing up at work with a ring is another douche move? It’s meant to put social, public pressure on you when all the office mates coo, Oooh, a ring! He must be a catch! Or in other words, another smokescreen. Good on you for not falling for it.
@Settling:
Good for you! Thank you for letting us know how it worked out.
ToS–so glad you checked in. :) Sounds like you’re kicking ass at building the life you want. Snaps to you, dear.
ToS–Well done, you. Honestly, I doubt that engagement ring actually brought you any closer to marriage anyway, and if it did, it certainly wasn’t the marriage you wanted.
ToS–congratulations! Getting off that fence and on with your life was a smart choice, and I hope you enjoy the fruits of it.
Having caved to the “love me or I’ll kill myself” threat before, I want to say, ToS, you are my new hero.
Aw Jessica – thank you! And see Dayna’s comments.
Which is think is quite accurate on him. I hope you made it through/out.
I wish I’d seen all this sooner. We had good years but there was so much I could have been doing.
Again – thanks great Nation!
Good for you ToS!
I’m coming to this party late, but Tired – I’m so happy for you. Keep up the great work and have a fabulous life!
Great job, ToS!! You did the right thing,not just for yourself, but you modeled strong behavior for your kids (especially your daughter, IMO) What a great teaching moment for them – I think that understanding good reasons to (and not to) get married to someone are important life lessons and not easy decisions to make.
Also late to the party, but this update made me so happy I just had to add my WOOHOO! Good for you for being strong and smart and not giving in to emotional blackmail. I agree that the example this sets for your kids is an incredibly valuable life lesson. Way to go, mama. :)