The Vine: March 14, 2012
I’m in the biggest fight of my life and I’m not even angry, at least not yet.
Several years ago my sister met, dated, and got engaged to a man who was arrested for having child porn on his computer. From the beginning he has sworn his innocence, blaming it on computer stuff that I don’t understand, like viewing regular porn and the website was set up so the kiddie stuff would be downloaded without him knowing. Maybe it’s my lack of familiarity with the way websites work or a general suspicious manner, but I never was entirely sure I believed him. He was convicted, went to jail and released after serving his time, and a few years later my sister married him. I was her maid of honor. But, for the record, I did ask her if she was sure she wanted to do it. I wasn’t pushy but I brought it up.
Fast-forward to my husband and I having an awesome baby boy last year. Sister always wanted to babysit and was always offering but it was always in the context of having BIL being there too. Honestly, I don’t think he’d ever do anything to my son but I feel like if anything ever happened I could never forgive myself. It was really on the off chance that maybe my sliver of doubt proved correct. And it’s not like I haven’t enjoyed his company or been glad about how he’s been able to make my sister happy in his own limited way, but when it came to the safety of my son, I didn’t want to risk it. I never told my sister this because I knew it would really hurt her and she even told me once that if I thought he’d actually done what he was convicted of she could never speak to me again. But I did confide in my mother my concerns and reservations and asked her not to say anything as it was something I wasn’t sure my sister and I would be able to fix.
So last week, husband and I wanted to go out for dinner. I asked my mother — she was unavailable. My next plan was to ask a good friend with whom we swap babysitting duties since she has a couple of her own. Unfortunately my mom told my sister that she’d had to turn me down to babysit and my sister, very sweetly, immediately texted me to say she was available. So I called her up, got the feel for it and determined that she wanted to bring BIL. I said I’d check with my husband and I’d call her back. I admit I kind of lost my head. Left a message, bawling, for my mother demanding what I was supposed to tell sister. And I felt like I was in a corner and there was not other way around it, that I couldn’t put her off again after a year and a half of excuses. And maybe there was a small part that was hoping she’d be upset but then be okay and be up for spending time with her nephew.
Sister lost it. We had an exchange of emails and she can’t seem to understand that I don’t believe wholeheartedly that he’s a pedophile. That as a result of any doubt or question of his innocence, she can’t talk to me. At first I was just incredibly apologetic, telling her I love her and want her to have a relationship with my son. After awhile, though, and over the past week, she won’t talk to me — I’ve started to get angry. And my whole family is of course in on it. And while no one is accusing me of doing something wrong I’m getting a distinct lack of support…and when I have to remind them that it’s the safety of my son that keeps these reservations on my mind. Bottom line.
Please tell me that I’m not crazy. I’m completely torn up to think that my sister won’t speak to me again over this. Frankly, why the hell does she need my 100% approval and acceptance of her husband? And short of that, why can’t she accept that I don’t fully trust him — I’m not the one married to him so I don’t think I have to do so. Don’t adults have relationships with siblings even when there’s an accepted discord between siblings and spouses?
I know I’m not completely right but am I dead wrong?
Thank you and sorry for the length!
Formerly Unperturbable
Dear Form,
You’re not completely right; you’re not completely wrong; neither is Sister, and neither is the rest of the family. It’s a difficult situation that I suspect everyone has tried their collective best to ignore over the years, and now that that’s no longer possible, it comes down to a matter of…a less-than-ideal handling of it on all sides, let’s say, and where to go from here.
I don’t want to get into BIL’s guilt or innocence here, but I would probably have dealt with it the same way you did — minimized BIL’s time with my child, without making it clear to Sister that that’s what’s going on because I didn’t want to jeopardize the relationship. But I would have known also, or feared, that that could blow up in my face, that our mom could let the cat out of the bag somehow.
You got by with it for a while, but then your mom did sort of let the cat out of the bag, or at least loosen the ties on the bag, and now Sister feels betrayed. And it’s likely not so much that you think BIL is a bad toucher. It’s that you stood up for her at their wedding, and you’ve never said, in so many words, to her face, since the birth of your child, “I love you and I don’t want to lose our closeness — but I don’t believe BIL is completely innocent of those charges, and I do not want him around my kid if I’m not present.”
Again, I get why you didn’t say that…and having chosen to marry a man with this particular history, Sister should maybe get a little more used to the notion that people who know and love her will still think he’s a sketcher. A scorched-earth “you’re with me or you’re against me” party line is going to leave her pretty isolated if she goes that route every time someone expresses doubts about the guy. But she had come to rely on you as a person who didn’t think he did it, didn’t judge her — maybe it was naïve of her to choose to believe that, but she obviously didn’t want to think you had serious reservations about BIL, and when it became clear to her that you did have reservations, and had all along, it felt like an even bigger blow. Plus she probably feels ganged up on/whispered about by you and your mom, which can’t be helping.
But it’s out now, so: now what? First of all, forget the rest of the fam. Siblings’ spouses don’t have to get along, like you said, and by the same token, parents and cousins et al. don’t have to sign off on this contretemps in either direction. Let go of that part of it; any family members who bring it up should be thanked for their concern and gently steered to another topic. Next, send Sister an email or a snail-mail letter that is about your relationship only. Explain that you think you know how she must feel. Apologize for not speaking to her more directly about the concerns you had, and for the feelings of rejection that might have caused for her, although that wasn’t your intent — just the opposite. You’re sad and hurt that the two of you aren’t talking. You love her, you miss her, and you hope this isn’t the end of things. Do not bring up BIL, do not accuse her of being a drama queen, do not make it about who is More Right — none of that will get you anywhere. This is about acknowledging her anger and trying to move on, so write the letter, send it, and give her the space she needs.
I mean, you’re allowed to be pissed, both that she’s refusing to speak to you and that the rest of the family is getting a vote. But if you want a relationship with her, or even the chance to express how cornered you felt by this situation for years on end, you’ll have to put the anger aside, trust that you did right by your child, and show active compassion towards her. If being “right” is more important, okay, but that won’t move the ball.
Tags: kids the fam
It seems like these two families live close to each other, and will likely have a fair amount of contact over the years. It seems like it would be a good idea of everyone involved to reach some sort of status quo of comfort. I realize that the issues involved are incredibly serious and not to be taken lightly, and I completely support Unperturbable’s right to take a hard-line stance on the issue.
However, would it be worth taking the time to spend more time with BIL and giving him a chance to prove himself, or conversely, justifying Unperturbable’s gut instincts? Maybe start with everyone hanging out together? Then, if that goes well for a while, is it worth trusting BIL with the kiddo IF AND ONLY IF the sister promises to keep an eye on the kid AT ALL TIMES?
I would have more alarm bells ringing in my head if it were BIL who was offering to babysit all the time, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Lastly, I agree with Sars that Unperturbable has every right to feel however she wishes about this situation, and that the rest of the family needs to back off.
Here’s what I think is important and worth bringing up to Sis AND BIL, in terms that they cannot argue with: If BIL is a pedophile, then you do not want him around your child, period. If he’s not, and is in fact a perfectly innocent man in a bad situation who wants nothing but wonderful things for your kid, then surely he can understand that his conviction will make you nervous and you need to protect your child. Innocent people don’t demand to be around children against the parent’s wishes. It sounds like it’s possible Sister is too emotional to see reason about this, but I think you need to be clear to her that protecting your child is your first and foremost duty and has nothing to do with declaring her husband’s guilt or innocence.
And not to accuse your sister of anything untoward, exactly, but it sounds like a case of protesting too much. If he’s paid his debt to society, then why exactly is it so important that you believe in her husband’s innocence? Why do you need to allow him around your child, when a reasonable, innocent person would understand your reticence? Is it possible she isn’t sure she believes it and needs your help to convince herself?
I have to say I disagree with Toni on the point of letting him prove himself. To me, he already did prove himself and was convicted for it. I would not let a convicted drunk driver borrow my car, a convicted murderer hold my gun, and certainly not someone convicted of child pornography around my child without me there. Objectively I think people should be given a second chance, but as the guardian of a child it is my responsibility to keep them out of harm’s way so it is a no go.
As to the family relationship, well, I am having a hard time working up sympathy for the sister. She married someone convicted of possessing child porn! She is sticking her head in the sand if she thinks A LOT of people are not always going to hold that in the back of their mind. This is going to come up again and again in their lives and she needs to develop a thicker skin about it.
I don’t believe that anybody gets their computer infected with child porn accidentally, barring being set up by somebody else–that could happen, but is pretty unusual. Bottom line, it’s unreasonable for a parent to leave his or her child with a person they don’t trust absolutely. And this guy wasn’t just accused, but was convicted of and went to jail for child porn. No way I’d let my hypothetical child or my actual nephew spend alone time with this guy or the woman who defends his innocence.
Am I the only one who thinks it’s weird that your sister ALWAYS wants to bring the hubby along to babysit? That just seems off, regardless of what dude may or may not be into. My mom’s sister and her husband never had kids of their own, but my uncle didn’t come along if she was watching us at our house for the evening or taking us to the park or whatever. I don’t know. Maybe that was just their marriage. I don’t have anything else in my own experience to compare it to, but it just seems a little weird.
Sarah’s right, I think, that this is the logical endpoint of the initial strategy of “clearly you’re going to do what you want, so I guess I’ll shut up about what a creeper your fiance is” but I probably would have handled the situation the same as you did, and I’d have the same reservations about letting the dude near my kids. Maybe he’d be fine. But I don’t think porn sites stay in business by deliberately trying to get their customers arrested, either.
I really don’t want to google this to find out the answer, but: what is the likelihood that his claims are true? I mean, how likely is it that a web site would illegally put porn on its users computers, AND that that action could not be found out? I would imagine that if someone is on trial for this, forensics teams would be looking through the hard drive and the sources of the files to find this sort of information, right? Especially if that was his line of defense? I guess if there were like a generation of early internet porn viewers who were mistakenly taken down by this misunderstanding of technology, that would make me a little more likely to believe him, but I doubt that’s the case.
Ugh, I know that’s sort of beside the point, but it doesn’t sound right to me at all. This is a lose-lose situation, because you are right not take chances with your child, but your sister obviously won’t feel OK that you don’t trust her husband. I think she made her bed in that regard when she married him, but she has somehow escaped the consequences of it until now. She wants everyone to believe him the way she does and to act like it was all a tragic chapter in his life, but she can’t expect that of other people. If she wants to act like you owe him that, it’s going to be difficult to maintain your current relationship with her. Good luck in negotiating this, but you’ve done the right thing so far. Just maybe avoid talking to Mom about it in the future!
“She is sticking her head in the sand if she thinks A LOT of people are not always going to hold that in the back of their mind. This is going to come up again and again in their lives and she needs to develop a thicker skin about it.”
But I think that is the reason that sis is so mad. Up until this point in time Sis thought that she had her support. I’m sure that she’s used to having people outside the family judge him (fairly or not) but when she found out that her own sister felt the same way as others, she flipped out. There’s a lot of things in my life that people can judge me for that I don’t care about because they are all strangers, but if my own family or friends didn’t believe me it would really hurt. I also know that people will go many lengths to “protect” someone they love.
My feeling is that it’s your kid and you have the right to protect them anyway you see fit, but I see sis’s point of view as well.
I’d also like to point out that there is no mention of the BIL actively trying to pursue this babysitting thing so I’m not sure it’s fair to talk about his intentions in this case.
I don’t know how it works for people convicted of child pornography, but it seems like he would have some conditions on him that precludes him being alone with a child. Maybe it’s different if the child is a relative, or maybe it’s not the same since he wasn’t convicted of being a child molester, but it seems like that would be something to look in to. He may not be legally allowed around your child at all, in which case, there’s really no should-he-or-shouldn’t-he contest. He shouldn’t, end of story.
I thought his explanation of “the porn site put child porn on my computer without my knowledge” was more than questionable…from what I gather, legitimate porn sites are not anxious to give out illegal material, since that is liable to get them shut down ASAP, and shut off their money flow. And who makes it their business strategy to put illegal files on someone’s computer just because?
Jennie: No, you’re not the only one who thinks it’s weird that Sister babysitting ALWAYS means the husband is coming, too. I thought that was just plain strange.
I for once, disagree with Sars. I’d be taking a much harsher tone with Sister. MY letter would say, “I am sorry that you are upset, but this is the safety of my child and my word on it is final. I love and accept X as a brother in law and he is welcome in my home, but he will not be allowed around our child outside our presence EVER. You can feel about that however you feel, but it is not up for discussion. Thank you for respecting MY wishes regarding MY child. I consider this subject closed.” Then enforce it-she calls up crying…”I’m sorry you feel that way. ” She says she can’t talk to you anymore? “I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m here whenever you feel like talking about anything else.”
As far as other family members, same deal. “This is a private matter between my sister and I and not up for discussion. Thank you for your concern. ”
She has a right to how she feels. She does not have a right to override your wishes as the parent, or try to guilt trip you through other family members. Whether you are justified in being suspicious or not (hint: you are, child porn does not download itself) you are the parent. This is your call, and she can like it or lump it.
Another question I have in this: there are two people who actually DON’T seem to be part of the drama-your husband and your brother-in-law himself. How does BIL actually feel? Is this really that big a deal to him, or is Sis the one making all the drama? And-your husband should be taking some of the heat for you here and backing you up. If it was me, I’d be telling my wife to make me the bad guy and say that I absolutely forbid it, and I’ll take the heat for that decision, because chances are Sis won’t pull the manipulative crap on him.
Here’s another opinion: you’re completely right.
He’s a convicted pedophile. His computer-confusion excuse is a lie. Your sister emotionally blackmailed you into not being clear about your real thoughts on her husband.
Deep down, your sister knows he’s a pedophile. This is why she can’t handle even a hint of opposition. This is why she needs your 100% approval and acceptance of her husband. This is why can’t she accept that you don’t fully trust him.
Do not let your child anywhere near this guy, ever. You don’t owe him a chance to prove himself; if he gets one, he’ll only prove all of the above. And then lie about it, and then convince your sister that he’s innocent.
@Marv in DC, I agree with your point and I guess I should have clarified. I am sure her sister feels betrayed by the fact that everything seemed to be going along fine and all was copacetic, but my experience (and what seems to be going on here) is that having a kid involved is a game changer. It is harder to overlook someone’s criminal past when the potential target is your child.
I am also coloring my whole response with the viewpoint that I find his explanation implausible at best. Sketchy is as sketchy does.
Is he a registered sex offender? He would be in my state, even if he had done his time. Therefore, he would not be eleigible for certain jobs, like day care. Should an exception be made for caring for relatives’ children? I would say no.
MY letter would say, “I am sorry that you are upset, but this is the safety of my child and my word on it is final. I love and accept X as a brother in law and he is welcome in my home, but he will not be allowed around our child outside our presence EVER. You can feel about that however you feel, but it is not up for discussion. Thank you for respecting MY wishes regarding MY child. I consider this subject closed.”
That’s fair, but I don’t think whether LW is right to think BIL shouldn’t be around her kid is at issue. The question was whether she’s justified in being annoyed NOW, because Sister is throwing the dramz — and I believe she is justified, even though she probably shouldn’t have paid the “take my side about BIL or I’ll cut you off” blackmail in the first place.
I think it’s also fair to feel that Sister can eat a bowl of bees from now on, or to send a letter that’s more like, “Get a fucking grip, lady; you married a sex offender, what’d you expect.” Sister seems to have some shit to work out vis-a-vis using her husband to test the loyalty of others, to put it mildly.
But righteousness doesn’t get much done.
@Ashley,
I totally agree with you.
I agree with @Jen. Dude’s a pedophile, and in my state would be a registered sex offender not allowed to be near children. I think you’re completely right in being nervous about allowing him near your kid alone. (or at all, really.) I think Sarah’s thoughts about how to approach her are good, but I just wanted to reiterate that you’re not wrong. Sis needs to suck it up, she married a man convicted for child porn and if she is going to ill-advisedly believe him, she needs to get that people are not going to trust him fully no matter what. (which…I’m pretty sure no one set the guy up. I find it highly unlikely that porn websites are all “SURPRISE HERE’S SOME FREE CHILD PORN.”)
@Tori–I don’t think that spending time with him is going to tell her much–not all pedophiles act creepy in public. I knew a guy…I’m not going to say “well”, but well enough to spend a fair amount of time talking at parties, and he seemed like a nice guy, not creepy, just kind of spacey in that “stoned very often” kind of way. Just found out a few months ago that he got arrested for having a shitton of child porn on his computer, and he totally admitted it, too. I still feel all oogy thinking about it, he totally spent time at work picnics with kids and I sort of want to puke just typing that. But anyway: you can’t always tell by spending time with people whether they are creep-city.
First, I think I’d have behaved exactly as the letter-writer did. My sister is married to a total creep (no child porn convictions that I know of, but still), and I wouldn’t want him around my kids without me there.
I think at least some part of Sis’s reaction is less about “you don’t trust BIL” and more about “you don’t trust me and my judgment.” It’s not that you’re rejecting an offer from BIL to baby-sit solo; your sister would be there, too. And again, I’d decline, too, especially if your sister is truly, truly convinced of his innocence, to the extent where she might say, “Hey, I’ll go pick up the pizza; you stay here with my nephew for 15 minutes,” and not think twice about it.
I don’t know; it’s hard to believe that somewhere inside her those doubts don’t crop up, but if they DON’T, how could you trust her? And if they actually do, she can’t very well admit that to you when she’s been outwardly so loyal and supportive of her husband. I wonder if that’s part of why she’s shutting down. (We go through this with my sister, too; we can’t figure out if she truly doesn’t see what a jerk her husband is, or if she’s too proud to admit it.)
I don’t have any advice, but I do wish you luck.
(BTW, if my husband has other plans, I’ll often offer to baby-sit solo for my nieces and nephews, but if he’s around, we almost always do it together. I don’t think it’s weird; it’s more fun for me after the kids go to bed to have someone to hang out with, and he has a good relationship with all of the kids, who enjoy time with him at least as much as with me.)
@Unperturbable The first thing I thought of when I read the whole “The Internet put child porn on my computer and it’s not my fault!” excuse was when we had someone on the sex offender registry renting a house in our neighborhood. The VP of our homeowners association talked to him, and his explanation was that he’d been wrongly accused (I think a vindictive ex was involved), but HAD to plead guilty, because otherwise he would have been convicted on shaky evidence and spent much more time in jail. He’s not in the neighborhood any more because, guess what, he re-offended and is now back in jail. I think Sister needs to understand that this isn’t some hypothetical situation, this is YOUR CHILD. She can talk all she wants about how much she loves BIL, and how her family should support her decisions, but she can’t MAKE you feel comfortable about this. You feel how you feel, and she and the rest of your family can take a swim if they think you’re supposed to offer up your child as a sacrifice to family unity.
I think you’ve tried to walk a reasonable tightrope, F.U., but “she can’t seem to understand that I don’t believe wholeheartedly that he’s a pedophile”? I don’t think she cares whether you believe it wholeheartedly or half-heartedly, it’s that you believe it at all. Which I do too, so I don’t blame you, but that looks like you’re hoping for an “I’m not entirely convinced” loophole with her that I really don’t think exists. She thought you had no suspicions, and she was wrong; it doesn’t really matter at this point to what degree you’re suspicious.
@jennie, I was thinking the same thing; and @ferretrick, I wanted to ask that question too: what does BIL think? Has anyone even asked him?
It sounds like this is the first baby of the extended family, which makes me think two things: 1) that Sister wants to prove to everyone that BIL is trustworthy, because 2) she wants to have kids with him someday, and needs to prove to herself that he wouldn’t hurt them.
Speculation doesn’t help you, of course; but what if you had a family meeting and asked BIL what he thinks about SIL always wanting to bring him along? Or get Sister alone and ask her why she has to have him there, in as non-judgy a way as possible?
Oh, God, this is by far one of the grossest questions I’ve ever had to ask but: what kind of child porn was it?
BLEAH BLEAH BLEAH. I’m sorry. But was it little kids or more of a Traci Lords kind of scenario? Having either one on his computer is a convictable offence, but I’d be about half a percent likelier to buy his excuse if it was the latter. (Half a percent up from ZERO. That is NOT how any site that wants to make money and not be busted by the Feds operates.)If it was more along the lines of “she looked of age” young women I would be, again, half a percent more inclined to accept Sister’s histrionics.
But Sister is coming across as someone who has told herself a really big lie and is scrambling night and day to convince herself it was the truth. Why is she so damn insistent that BIL be present during babysitting, that no one even MENTION a huge issue in their lives, that anyone who isn’t ten thousand percent behind her is banished from her sight?
It’s because she’s fighting a war against her own mind, the part of it that says that no matter how much she loves this guy she can’t trust him on a really fundamental level, and she’s trying to drown that part out with the carrying on and dragging the family into it, and co-opting her sister’s love for her into this losing mental war.
And I think Unperturbable is going through something similar. She doens’t want to admit a loved one has made a really questionable choice, and that she’s being asked to risk her kid’s safety to support that choice. Who would?
Sars’ advice is correct as far as it goes: i.e., in trying to mend the relationship between the sisters. But until the elephant in the room is really, truly dealt with, I think this issue will keep rising up.
I, too, wonder if BIL is a registered sex offender – in fact, I’d find it odd if he weren’t, or if the conditions of his parole didn’t expressly state that he wasn’t allowed contact with children. But I don’t know the law.
@Carrie Ann: I think he did what he was accused of. I have never had any website, porn or otherwise, download any content onto my computer accidentally. Malware is one thing, but videos? That are saved? And ONLY child porn videos? I doubt it. And OK, if that really happened, why’d he hold onto it long enough to get caught? If I looked up and kiddie porn were on my computer, I’d be like “OH SHIT WHAT HAPPENED HOW DID THIS GET HERE” and wipe my hard drive clean that second, and maybe just scrap the laptop and get a new one. Call me cynical (and I would agree), but I think he downloaded the stuff intentionally.
I think I’d send an email, but it would take a firmer tone, something like “I’m sorry you’re upset and I do want my son to know his aunt and for us to have the relationship we used to have, but I also can’t in good conscience let my son spend time with someone who was convicted of possessing child porn.”
What does BIL think of all this?
Unperturbed,
I think this line of your letter says a lot – “And it’s not like I haven’t enjoyed his company or been glad about how he’s been able to make my sister happy in his own limited way”
You don’t really like your BIL and that’s OK. You don’t have to, and you certainly don’t have to allow him around your child, but there’s more to your dislike than just his prior conviction if you’re calling him “limited” and maybe that needs to be part of your thought process in figuring out how to resolve the situation.
I’d be equally as unwilling to take even an infinitesimal chance with my child and I think, at the end of the day, your sister will understand that. I like Sars’s idea of the letter or email, but maybe the two of you also need to sit down and have a heart-to-heart about the entire situation, so that she understands your need to protect your son and you perhaps can understand her need to protect her husband. The whole time I was reading your letter I thought – what will happen if your sister has her own children? Will you be nervous all the time? Maybe think about that, too, because there’s a big difference between “mama bear” protectiveness and overall doubt.
I hope it turns out well for you both. My sister is my best friend and I would be devastated to not have her in my life.
Thanks for all the responses, everyone!
Just a little follow-up on the situation since I originally wrote the letter. I went to some therapy sessions with my sister because I understood her sense of betrayal and need to work out some of these issues (and I had some things to say, as well) and Sars was spot on with what the therapist said. I never apologized for my instinct to protect my son and I never felt guilted into it by any of the parties involved. What I did feel bad about was that I had hidden these feelings from her, though I stand by my question of when the eff would it have been appropriate to bring this up? The day she came to visit me and baby in the hospital? On her wedding day? So we dealt with it and BIL is supposed to come up with a PLAN wherein he details every situation in which he’d have contact with my son and ensure that he’d never be alone with him. This would protect my son and it would protect him from any false accusations as long as this plan is followed.
In answer to some questions – husband has backed me up telling me to put all the blame on him, but I don’t want to set up that false and ugly dynamic with my sister with her resenting him as a result. She will much more readily forgive me than him. And I honestly don’t know my BIL’s reaction since we haven’t really discussed it openly, just through sister. I know he’s hurt but it sounds like he also understands my position and doesn’t want to push himself into it. And frankly, he wasn’t the one pushing to babysit the kid anyway.
So I will probably always have my suspicions but now it’s out in the open and we have boundaries set for the future. It was more painful than I could imagine but I’m glad it’s done with… I won’t have to make excuses or do any quick dances to keep him from being alone with my son. And hopefully my sister will get over the hurt of being lied to… I don’t know if she ever will but she knows I’m sorry for the deception.
And I’m not telling my mom anything again. lol
However you decide to approach things with your sister, please don’t let her reactions or those of other relatives undermine your certainty that you’re doing what’s necessary for your child. Even if your BIL is 100% innocent (and that seems highly doubtful), you can’t afford to take any chances with your son’s safety.
As a child that was molested by an uncle in law, do not let this man alone with your child ever. Your sister is delusional and I pray they intend to be child free. His excuse is simply that,it’s an excuse. For all you know he could be a non offending pedophile, meaning he keeps it under control, yes the porn was an offense but I mean he has never touched a child. If that’s the case that’s awesome but your doing both him and your sister a favor by keeping your child away from him. If he is a non offender he should be relieved he isn’t being tempted.Dan Savage had some emails from a non offending pedophille last week, it’s worth a read. Most people just assume that someone who has those urges is going to automatically act on them and that isn’t true. But a truly recovered one wouldn’t want to be near your child.
You are doing the right thing momma. I hope your relationship can be salvaged with your sister. I have a feeling she has been waiting for this issue to come up with somebody, I’m sorry you were the first one.
Fwiw, I think Jen is right. This is how child predators work. At first, it’ll be babysitting with the wife. And then it won’t be.
Bucking an institution’s conformity inhibitions, whether that’s Chase Bank and a whistleblower or your family and the predator in the closet, is super super hard. The pressure to conform as proof that you belong in the group is more than a lot of people can bear. Shunning is awful, even when you’re right. If you can see that’s the dynamic happening here, maybe you can allow yourself the distance to avoid getting pressed flat. Persuading your sister and your family that you won’t be cowed (and that taking a longer look at BIL’s sketch-tastic self wouldn’t go amiss) won’t happen in a pressurized environment, you know? (And they know it too; hence the dramz.)
You’ll likely lose your place in the family before you win. That’s how this kind of thing goes. But keep your eye on the prize — keeping your kid safe.
I can understand why “Sister” would want Formerly’s approval where her husband is concerned. Note, I’m not saying it’s right, but I can understand; my experience with my sisters is sort of wanting their approval and understanding in general. (I’m not saying that’s right either. Actually, my relationship with my older sister is distant due to living in different states and my relationship with my younger sister has come to a point where I’ve pretty much learned to live without her, but that’s neither here nor there.)
On the other hand, where a person’s child is concerned, protection comes first. If Sister’s husband is innocent, I can’t imagine the heartbreak they must live with. If he’s guilty, then he’s pretty much an evil person and a major threat to any child. Formerly can’t take chances with her child’s safety. And I can’t figure out, for the life of me, why Sister’s husband has to come with her to babysit.
I can barely wrap my head around this situation, but when it comes down to it, Formerly – put your child first. Do what you can to salvage your relationship with your sister, but your child comes first, and nobody has the right to judge you for that.
I’m an occasional poster here, but I’d rather remain anonymous for this comment.
While I can see where Sis might be upset (thinking Unperturbable wasn’t judging BiL when she was) I’m with ferretrick here and I’ll tell you why. About ten years ago my entire family found out that my father possessed child porn on his home computer. We also found out that about a year before he was fired because it was on his work computer and was being investigated by the FBI – right before 9/11 happened, which understandably distracted the FBI.
My father fed my mother and sister the same lie about another website “accidentally downloading” the porn on his work computer. My sister was told this because she was living with my parents at the time – along with her toddler son. My dad was never allowed alone with him after that (this was still before this became common knowledge to the rest of the family) and as far as we know he’s never actually been a “bad toucher.”
My father has since been tried and convicted, has served his time and been released from prison. He has admitted his sickness and sought help and, as far as I know, has not relapsed.
Since all this happened, I have had very little contact with my father. It’s something I feel strongly about, having been molested myself as a child by a family friend (which my father knew nothing about until my family drama went down and I told him why I would no longer be talking to him).
So, yeah, I can see why Sis would be upset, but ya know what? Too fucking bad. Your child’s safety is at stake and that trumps Sis’s hurt feelings. And really, if BiL isn’t the one insisting that he accompany Sis on the babysitting excursions, why is Sis so hell-bent on him being there? Aside from trying to prove to the family that BiL can be trusted. Ya know what’ll make people trust him more? Not putting him in situations like this.
(Sorry for the length. As you can see, this is a rather touchy subject for me.)
You’re not crazy. At all. Sister’s reaction is, in part, understandable for the reasons Sars laid out. But she’s been dwelling in la-la land if, after 18 months of no baby sitting, she didn’t form some idea that you had reservations about BIL. So I think that she deluded herself for a while, and now cannot. That probably stings. So, if your first priority is to take action to repair the damage to your relationship with Sister, I think Sars hit the nail on the head in terms of next communication with her.
But, if saving your relationship with your sister is not priority #1, and the continued safety of your child is, then I would lean towards a slightly less conciliatory tone. It sounds like it will be difficult (given Sister’s penchant for emotional gamesmanship) to accomplish both repair and protection. If she conditions her continued sisterly affection on your “acceptance” of BIL, game over.
I get the feeling that Sister’s idea of “support” is: agree with me or else. That bothers me whenever I confront it– support is not blind agreement or acquiescence. You were supportive of the marriage by taking her happiness into consideration and thus holding your tongue. You have remained supportive by welcoming him into the family. The line gets drawn, rightly, at the safety of your son. Good luck.
This is obviously not anywhere near an identical set of circumstances, but it happens that the career-focused blog Ask a Manager had a question this week that brings up some of the same issues: tinyurl.com/6srqxrw. The specific advice in that set of given circumstances (discovering a coworker in an office environment is a registered sex offender) won’t apply in a family setting, but the discussion was pretty wide-ranging and thoughtful and may be of interest.
I completely agree with everything Jen has said. Letter-writer, you are 100% correct here, and your sister is dead wrong. Do not let that man near your child. Ever. If your sister is upset about that, let her be upset – she is not your priority here.
I’m a little sensitive about this because there’s a major murder trial going on in my town right now. An 8-year-old girl was raped and killed by a paedophile, and she was kidnapped by the woman the paedo was dating. If his girlfriend hadn’t helped him, that little girl would be alive today. I’ve been reading and listening to horrific testimony and watching the faces of that girl’s parents.
This isn’t something you take chances about.
Good luck, and stay vigilant. My mom & her older sister both tried to talk to their younger sister before her wedding, because they were both totally skeeved out by her fiance. No child porn habits that they knew of – he was just totally fucking creepy & gross. She married him anyway, after getting incredibly pissed off at my mom & aunt. Their relationship was damaged for a long time.
12 years later I stayed with him and my 2 cousins when my mom & aunts were out of town (I was 13), and something happened (20 years later it’s still a big black hole) with me & him resulting in me locking myself in the bedroom and calling my mom in tears asking her to come get me. I vaguely remember him talking to me about his sex life with my aunt, but that’s about it.
Moral of the story: your son’s safety is the most important thing here. I can only imagine how awful it feels to lose your relationship with your sister, or to have it strained because of this…but your son’s safety is the most important thing. Trust your instincts.
@Unperturbed: I’m glad to hear you were able to work things out with your sister; it sounds like your solution (while difficult) is better than anything suggested above.
My own take on the situation was a little different than what I read; I certainly thought you were completely right to put your child first above all other considerations. But I also thought that your sister was completely within her rights to put her husband first, before family — that’s what the vows say, after all. The result was unfortunate, so I am extra glad that you were able to salvage a better situation out of what happened.
I’m with Jen & Ferretrick on thus one, LW. Give no quarter. Your child’s safety is more important than your relationship with your sister. She made a weird call marrying a convicted pedophile (it would be wrong for me, but maybe it works for her somehow) and cannot reasonably expect other to turn as blind an eye as she has. Please, please do not back down on this, and do NOT, under any circumstances, allow anyone guilt you into “giving BIL a chance.” your child should not be the vehicle for this guy’s redemption. IMO, pedophiles do not get another “chance.” your sister has made one of the more whacked-out decisions I can conceive of – it does not show excellent judgement to marry a convicted pedophile. Do not feel obligated to compound her poor judgement with your own. If your relationship with her is over, well, there you have it. Your child goes on, unmolested. Worth it, i’d say.
I agree with all the people who are saying that even if he’s innocent, you still have to err on the side of caution. It’s not a “baby never ever sees him” thing, the way it would be if it were certain; but it is *not* a hardship to never babysit a sibling’s kid. You err on the side of protecting the child. (Especially since, again, “not allowed to babysit” is such a minor thing.)
Also, now I’m thinking of de Lint’s Memory and Dream and…argh.
Unperturbed, re your second post about your brother in law agreeing to A Plan about when he sees your son, and ensures he never sees him unsupervised – I’m really sorry but I am having a wary reaction even to that.
There is only one healthy attitude from an innocent person which is ” I totally understand your caution, I have no interest in planning or bargaining to have time with your child if you are uncomfortable with it, no need to drag out a painful topic, see you when, if ever, you are comfortable seeing me, bye.”
I don’t have a particular expertise but I did, years ago, do criminal defence work, including of sex offenders, and there is a recurring behaviour of wanting to keep talking and explaining and making plans and just wanting to keep the topic of access to children in play.
@ferretrick, get out of my head! Your words were exactly what was going through my head as I read the original letter.
@Unperturbed Again , glad you an Sis are working it out. It always feels better to get things out in the open, even if that opening came a little late.
@Unperturbed, I’m glad you were able to make some peace with your sister in therapy, but I have to agree with the other posters who say you should NEVER let the BIL be alone with your child. Do not ever let your guard down, or say, “Well, just this one evening” no matter how much time passes. His explanation for the child porn is a lie.
Between this, last week’s Savage Love, and Ask A Manager (seriously maybe my favorite blog ever–besides this, of course), I’ve been reading a lot about pedophiles lately. I’m not okay with that. Can someone please ask about cats next?
I don’t know that I have much advice. I think it is very sweet of you, OP, to have gone to therapy and to try to salvage your relationship with your sister. I have a sister, and we’ve never really gotten along. If she married a pedophile or rapist or whatever, I’d probably just write her off as an idiot at best and not someone I needed to speak to or be around ever again (and I’m childfree, so it wouldn’t even be about a kid’s safety at that point). But my sister lives far away, so it is relatively easy to avoid her. Close sibling relationships aren’t really something I know about. But I’ll say this: No way is that bullshit story about child porn just showing up on his computer true. No way. And I can’t believe that anyone who has heard that line of shit has bought it. If it were my parents, they would be very explicit in their belief on that point. I can’t understand why your family has supported her at all. So clearly, I do not get the family dynamic here. But I do get this–and as many others have posted before me–your sister knows deep down that this guy is a creep. She is just desperate to believe otherwise, and she has serious issues if she thought she could marry a convicted sex offender and not have problems as a result.
Child porn doesn’t accidentally fall onto your computer. No more than a rapist can say their dick accidentally fell into their victim.
I was babysat by someone under suspicion when I was four – the family said, ‘no, he’s a war veteran, so he must be good!’ when previous children had cried, and yes, he dragged me into a cupboard, too.
You are 100% right, and maybe you will have to sacrifice your clueless sister for the protection of your child. If you have ANY suspicions, the safety of your child has to come before the hard feelings of the sister.
The family can mind their own business.
I agree with Polly. A Plan? Fuck a plan. BIL needs to understand and respect your reservations – and the fact that he’s offering a compromise instead sets off my creepometer. You owe him NOTHING. There is no reason why he should ever be around your son when you’re not around, end of story. Don’t back down on this. Your relationship with your sister is important, but she made her choices. Don’t make your son a pawn in the game.
I agree 100% with Jen and ferretrick and those mentioning that this “Plan” sounds like a creepy way to keep tabs on your kid and weasel his way in.
I would never let my sister babysit my kid, with or without the BIL. She does not have the judgement to not marry a pedophile. And I would have a zero tolerance policy for any other family member baby-sitting the kid- the BIL is never allowed to be around your child without you and your husband present.
This is a convicted pedophile and liar. That story about the porn isn’t true, so it should never be a matter of how much you do or do not believe him. You don’t.
I don’t have anything to add to the other very smart comments, but this and the Savage love column about the pedophile make me want to re-read my copy of “The Gift of Fear”.
I don’t have kids but the reminders about the manipulators that are out there, make me want to review how best to avoid them at any age.
There is also a book about kids specifically called “Protecting the Gift” that might be worth checking out.
I understand wanting to stay friendly with your sister but if she is healthy, she’ll understand that a child’s safety comes before an adult’s feelings.
Ok, so I think it’s good you’re making up with your sister. However, I don’t think you should let her babysit your son even without the guy present (who knows, she might think it’s ok – because SHE trusts him – to leave the child with him just for a couple of hours or something). Heck, at this point, I’d be weary of leaving him with your own mom, but I’m paranoid like that… anyway, stick to your gut and protect your child. Even if you’re wrong, it’s a heck of a lot better to be safe than sorry in this situation. Good luck!
Don’t worry, there has been no compromise re: leaving my son alone with BIL. That’s never even been up for negotation. The “plan” was merely an exercise brought up by the therapist to set boundaries and expectations. BIL is definitely not pushing to be around my kid and, frankly, never was pushing for it. Which is fine with me.
It’s not your fault that your sister insists on being deluded and clinging to whatever she wants to believe. She is insisting that everyone else believe blindly too, though, and that’s neither sane nor fair. I don’t think it was a case of “you lied to her,” so much as she said, “If you EVER, then we’re through.” What are you supposed to do under these circumstances? Exactly what you did, I think. She’s emotionally blackmailing everyone into 100% acceptance and belief in her husband’s innocence in order to still have her in their lives, and that’s wrong. Not to mention stupid and blind and dangerous to your child. (And why is SHE insisting so very, very hard that he come along on every babysitting trip? When he’s not even initiating this idea? This is highly suspicious to me.)
If your relationship ends up ending over this, then so be it. At this point you’ve been forced to go to the mat about it and you cannot compromise this. And she shouldn’t be asking you to. If she keeps this up, then you’re better off being out of this crazy, at least until/unless she finally comes to her senses for one reason or another.
Look, I do criminal defense work. I work with and for accused (and admitted) sex offenders. I have a ton of sympathy (compared to the average person) for accused, convicted, and actual sex offenders (whatever the overlap is there). I think, on the whole, they’re dealing with a lot and the stigma they face is often grossly out of proportion to what they actually did. (Not always, sure. Predators exist.) That said, 1) you were right and behaved appropriately; 2) your sister is engaging in misdirection, perhaps on a subconscious level, by making you feel like you did something wrong in “deceiving her about your true feelings” (what else were you supposed to do to maintain a relationship? You waited until it actually became an issue to make it an issue, aka, AVOIDED DRAMA. So, no.); and 3) I don’t like the sound of this “plan,” or your therapist, particularly, for that matter. Your sister’s only acceptable play here is to sack up and accept you saying, with an open and accepting smile on your face as you seem to be doing, “I will be protecting my son.” You’ve been more welcoming toward your BIL than I think any person could reasonably expect, and she is further disrespecting your effort by insisting it’s not enough.
I got the vibe that “the Plan” was more of how to deal with things like family events – Christmas, grandma’s birthday, etc. Situations where the kid and the BIL would both be expected to be in attendance, in order to make sure that everyone feels safe. I mean, if the sisters are going to have a relationship, and Sister is gonna stay married to this guy, the reality is that they are all going to be in the same room on occasion, and having a Plan laid out for that in advance, rather than waiting until the moment comes and someone feels backed into a corner (like what happened) seems like good sense to me.
It sounds like the OP and her sister came to a painful but hopefully workable resolution, assuming she’s able to maintain the boundaries with her sister and BIL.
I want to say, too, that even if he WEREN’T a convicted sex offender, Unperturbed is completely within her rights to limit anyone from spending time alone with her child. Given that the vast majority of sexual molestation is perpetrated by someone the victim knows, including close friends and family members, I don’t believe in being too suspicious about this topic.
My general policy now that I’m a parent myself is not to let male family members or friends, outside my husband, spend more than the occasional few moments alone with her, period. I know a lot of people would find this paranoid, but I really don’t care (it’s not like I announce it all, “I think you’re all potential child molesters, so … no!” or anything). My mother had ONE incident with an uncle that still haunts her to this day, and that had a strong effect on who she let us spend time with the whole time we were growing up, and how I view the issue. This isn’t just for my child’s protection – I don’t ever want a situation in which my four-year-old makes a comment that could be considered suspicious and I have to play “was it innocent or bad touching” and/or confront a family member over the issue – given the stigma of this particular offense, it’s horrible to think of falsely accusing someone (although obviously even more horrible imagining it happening to my child).
I just think it’s safer all around to avoid the possibility, at least while my kid is too young to really understand or communicate properly something that might be happening to her. As she gets older, we’ll obviously work on educating her and helping her learn to protect herself from such situations, but right now, it’s my job to prevent anything like that from even being a possibility.
1) “Accidentally downloaded without his consent”? Bull. Complete. Utter. Bull. Because, as mentioned by a number of previous commenters, porn sites just don’t do that – it’s a bad way to do business.
2) The fact that he keeps trying to weasel his way in every time Sister offers to babysit is skeevy as hell.
3) If Sister wants to burn her bridges with anyone who won’t support BIL completely? That’s her problem. Let her pull out the matches if she wants – the child’s safety should be a higher priority.