The Vine: March 23, 2011
Last year I broke up with my long-term live-in boyfriend. We had been together through a volatile period on both of our lives with financial ups and downs for both of us. When the dust of the relationship settles, he is making a large income and settled in the house we used to live in with his new girlfriend while I am struggling to make ends meet and living with my parents across the country while I prepare for a run at grad school.
We broke up because he semi-suddenly decided he doesn’t want to get married (to me anyway) though we had looked at rings and he converting to my religion. We had planned on getting married before we moved in together but one excuse of his or another always prevented us from settling down. It is now abundantly clear he wasn’t that awesome to me while we were together (cheating, emotional abuse, general immaturity) and now I feel more relieved than anything else that things didn’t work out.
I tell you all of this as back story for my dilemma. Early in our relationship we obtained a credit card in his name with me as an authorized user. I did most of the grocery shopping, errands-running and general life-planning so it made sense for us at the time. I fully admit that I charged things to the card that weren’t strictly for the two of us; it did function as my only credit card and I didn’t think twice about charging a round of cocktails or tank of gas. The payments came from both of our accounts but I contributed a few hundred dollars every month as expected. He rarely contributed. We stopped using the card three years ago and I started paying down this debt, thinking he was saving for a ring. I paid about half of the balance, and my ex transferred the rest to an account with a lower interest rate in his name only to expedite the process.
Then he got a new job with a big salary and he started to become a different person. We broke up, I moved out. I had continued to send a contribution every month until three months ago when I stopped. I’m barely making ends meet waiting tables while I look for a job and the money just hasn’t been there. Also he has behaved like a troll since our breakup and the unfairness of the situation has started to sink in. I incurred this debt believing the future would look entirely different, I believed everything he said hook, line, and sinker. I certainly didn’t think that I wouldn’t be stuck paying off this debt solo on my current terrible income. I was there for him when he was unemployed, he drove my car and we even signed a domestic-partnership agreement so I could put him on my medical insurance, I figured he would be understanding while I got my life together post-breakup. This was true at first but now he calls me daily demanding I pay. It has really made me see the situation in a new light.
Recently, when he threatened legal action and I told him I didn’t think he had a case, he offered to split the remaining balance with me if I sign an agreement stating I understand I owe him the money and will pay him a certain amount monthly for years. This will still be a huge strain on me financially. I don’t know what to do.
I suppose my question is this: am I a bad person if I turn my back on this situation? Part of me feels like I paid my half of the debt, it isn’t in my name and I feel like a sucker. He could pay off the entire balance painlessly; he spends more on baseball tickets in a season. It will be such a struggle for me and he did me wrong in so many ways that I am very tempted to tell him he won’t see another dime from me. Paying him this money is not only crushing financially, it reminds me of a girl who thought she didn’t deserve to be treated better. It makes me feel like a fool. His collection calls make me queasy. I know he could come after me but though I’m not a lawyer, I don’t think he has much of a case and I don’t have any money anyway.
Then my heart kicks in. Part of me though feels like he always thought I would pay this money and it isn’t fair to sneak-attack him with even half the balance because things didn’t work out. My heart wants to take the high road and be broke for the next four years. Even though I know I made him out to be jerk (and he was), we were happy for a long time and I feel like this is terrible relationship karma. I feel like paying the money to him is the probably the right thing to do, but I think I am okay with burning this bridge and would love to be free of this burden. Please Sars, what do I do?
At Least I Don’t Have to Follow the NL Central Anymore
PS If I have to pay this debt, it is a small price to pay for being out of that situation. I wish I could have told the girl who was afraid to leave how much better it is on the other side!
Dear Cubs Fan,
I would stop looking at the problem along the good-person/bad-person axis, and start trying to see it from a less emotional and more businesslike standpoint. Forget what either of you feels s/he is owed emotionally, or in theory; focus on what is actually owed legally and/or financially — if anything. I think the desired result here is not “good person,” or “better person than Ex.” It’s dealing with the situation in a permanent way so that Ex departs your life completely, but doesn’t take your credit rating with him.
I’m not a lawyer either, and I don’t work for a credit-card company, so whatever you choose to do, you should consult with relevant authorities on the subject — but this is what I would do.
First: marshal all the paperwork, from your files or by calling the credit-card company and asking for the statements, and figure out exactly what got spent on what, and which of you is responsible for what. Create a spreadsheet and track every single expenditure; go back over your checking records and track how much you paid.
Second: place a call to the card company, or to a credit bureau, or to anyone who can tell you what the legal implication is of his having transferred that balance to an account in his name. My sense is that, if he wanted to prove in court that you still owed money on that balance, he should have left it in an account with your name; it does seem to me as though, once he assumed the debt, he…you know, assumed the debt. But Lord knows what loopholes exist there, so: find out.
Third: once you have all that information — whether you do actually owe him money from the original card; whether he can convince a small-claims judge that you owe him money now — you can respond to his next call. If it turns out that you don’t owe anything on the balance, or that, over the course of the credit card’s lifespan, he actually owed you money, you can pleasantly tell him that you don’t plan to be extorted, and end the call. If you do owe him a small amount, make him an offer, while 1) reminding him that he’s not entitled to more, and 2) insisting that he agree in writing that the small amount means the end of your dealings, and any further contact on that subject will be considered harassment. (Getting a lawyer friend to pinch-hit on the wording is a good idea here.) And if he won’t accept those terms, he’s welcome to engage an attorney, and you wish him luck.
Again: you need to figure out, from people with the pertinent experience to tell you, whether he actually has a case here, and proceed from there. I honestly don’t know why he’d bother, if your assessment of his financial situation is correct — he got the house and a new lady friend, and the best thing for everyone involved is for him to just let the shit go. But if he wants to make it about punishing you, you have to let that be his choice, and not make the same mistake.
Figure out whether he’s got grounds for a legal claim; if he doesn’t, either tell him to fuck off or make arrangements to pay what you do owe and nothing more. But whatever you do, make it about ending the interaction, not proving anything to him. That time is over.
Tags: boys (and girls) etiquette
This is the stuff that Judge Judy episodes are made of.
From what very little legal knowledge I’ve gathered from the show, the fact that she assumed the responsibility of making the payments in full for months (years?) shows that she acknowledges that it is her debt. Lots of people take credit cards out for significant others, theoretically it doesn’t make it any less her debt because it’s not in her name.
That said, Sars is right. You need to sit down and go through every single charge on that card and crunch some numbers hardcore.
Hope I don’t see you on daytime court TV! Good luck.
the fact that she assumed the responsibility of making the payments in full for months (years?) shows that she acknowledges that it is her debt
Yeah, that’s the wrinkle. She kind of can’t shrug that it’s not her problem. That said, if she made her share of payments over the years, it’s possible that it’s actually not. No away around that accounting but through, alas.
I agree with Sars that if he has a good job and a house in his possession, hounding you about this debt is all about maintaining a grudge match on his part. If you truly feel like your life is better off now that you’re rid of him, don’t let him engage you with this.
Aside for charting out the expenses and what you already paid over the years, to figure out whether you do in fact owe anything on the balance, I would also sit down and figure out what you can actually afford to pay each month without putting yourself out financially in the event you actually do owe him something, just in case, and offer to pay that amount if you do turn out to owe him money.
I suspect that once you start quoting numbers and expenses, and what you paid over the lifetime of the card, he might react by just backing off. More reason to sit down and actually figure out if he has a leg to stand on.
Oh, this can be some sticky, sticky shit. Get a lawyer who knows his/her stuff on debt and collection legalities.
Going back to the “signed a domestic partnership agreement” bit, do you live in (or did the agreement get signed in) a community property state? Community property usually equals community debt, so that’s something to keep in mind. However, if the new card is in his name only … it seems like that, combined with the money you’ve already paid out, should make what’s left of the debt his baby.
Oh, and the collection calls? Tell him to stop. Immediately. Put it in writing and send it certified mail, return receipt requested. If he’s decided to play collection agency, then he should have to follow all the FDCPS rules. Tell him you will only communicate with him via (snail) mail from now on. Any lawyer worth a retainer will probably tell you the same thing.
Stop thinking back to happier(?) times with this guy. They’re gone, and he’s a douche.
It may depend somewhat on the laws of your state, but I think you might be off the hook here. Definitely follow Sars’ advice re: checking with the credit card company and doing the accounting.
But…authorized user does not create responsibility for the debt (as opposed to a credit card applied for in both your names). You were not married, so the law won’t assume some sort of common marital debt. You did say you signed a domestic partnership agreement, but I don’t know if that means your state has a domestic partnership law that you two took advantage of, or if your employer had some sort of “if you’ve lived together for a long time and sign a piece of paper stating this fact, you qualify as a domestic partnership for health insurance purposes” clause. That will matter, so let us know in the comments or check with a lawyer. Maybe also let us know what state you live in.
He might be able to sue you in small claims but I don’t know what his claim would be – there’s no written contract between the two of you that you owe on this debt. I suspect he’s just trying to harass you, so get your ducks in a row and tell him to shove off.
Man, it’s letters like this that make me SO happy I never mixed my finances with a boyfriend. My husband and I don’t even bank at the same bank and only recently got a joint credit card.
If she was the person paying down the debt and the card wasn’t used for the last 3 years, I agree: her portion of it is probably already paid off. I’m unclear, however, as to what he was doing with this card. Was he ALSO buying gas, groceries, etc? If wasn’t contributing at all, he may owe HER money. Something doesn’t add up.
This is a really state-dependent legal question, and you need some assistance to navigate those waters. Like somoene said, whether its a common law state might make a difference. Nearly every decent-sized community has some type of legal aid, and given the recitation of your financial limitations, you would likely qualify. Even if they won’t provide specific advice prior to litigation, they will be able to direct you to appropriate educational resources.
Do NOT, under any circumstances, sign the agreement he is proposing. It sounds to me like pure manipulation-like something HIS lawyer told him to get, because the truth is legally he hasn’t got a leg to stand on.
Have you checked your credit report? All three major credit bureaus are required BY LAW to provide you a free one upon request once a year. Get yours at annualcreditreport.com and make sure that debt IS actually out of your name and that that credit card IS actually closed. I wouldn’t take his word for anything, including the time of day. If you don’t understand the report, call and ask questions.
After you’ve verified the debt not negatively affecting your credit-You state that you paid half the balance. You say that he transferred the debt into his name. I think you are done here. By all means, consult with a lawyer and find out exactly what’s what, but it sounds to me like you ethicly and legally are done here. You paid your share; and the debt is not in your name anymore. Tell him he will never see another dime, block his number on your phone, and tell him if he ever contacts you again, you will pursue legal action.
If there were ever a case of “Knowledge Is Power,” this would be it.
Sars is absolutely right here–the more organized you are, the less power he has. Track every expense, make every call, send that registered letter telling the DoucheCanoe Collection Agency to piss up a rope (using legal phrasing, of course)–the more you organize and make it just business, the less ability he has to yank your chain, make you hold yet another summit between the “but we really had something back in the day” and “IT’S NOT FAIR!” that wears you out and drains your energy: basically, the power he has to make you feel bad.
From your description, he’s doing this because he enjoys doing this–proving to himself he still controls you, just enjoys rattling someone’s cage, whatever–and the more you bring things into a correct focus, the less ability he has to play Bond Villian.
If you need money to cover the expenses of this venture, see if you can get a loan, from a bank or your parents. But make it a LOAN, with a signed paper stating that fact and a repayment schedule. I’m guessing you’d much rather be paying back money to parents who love you or an impartial financial institution then this guy.
You say in your letter that you wish you could let that girl who’s afraid to leave know how much better it is on the other side. It is, and the further you go, the better it will get. Quit hanging around this border town and set out for the city. You deserve it.
Talk to a lawyer pal or legal aide. Depending on your location, there may be common-law partnership laws in place. Which means he may have to pay you some support. Or, if the house was owned, buy you out. Granted, I’m writing from Canada, but there are legal implications and responsibilities for both sides in a long term relationship.
Given that the initial card balance has now been transferred to a new card, you might not actually be able to get copies of statements from the initial card easily. And as you were only an authorized signer on the card, Ex might be the only one who can legally request them at all if it even is possible. I’d suggest doing your due diligence and trying to request the statements for the accounting process, but if you’re rebuffed, document it, and push it onto Ex stating that if he thinks he’s owed money, he has to prove it and let him wrangle with the various companies to get copies of statements to send to you so you can determine what you might (if any) actually owe.
Reiterating that it depends on the laws of the state, but I can tell you from personal experience that even if you are not an authorized user you can still be sued for the debt you rack up on someone’s card. I have a set of friends who went to court over this exact (well not exact but close) issue. The person who had their name on the card never used said card, and sued the other person for the total of the balance and won. Other person ended up having to make monthly court ordered payments so… you want to be careful.
However, if the card in this instance was ALSO used for common goods (like groceries) and you can prove that say half of the balance was “common” you would be in theory on the hook for 3/4 of the balance while ex is on the hook for 1/4, if you have already paid that amount I would think it would be a wash.
I also second what Suze in CO says, from now on only communicate via snail mail (or email, but snail mail is better) so you can have a record of all conversations. Also checking up on the FDCPA requirements may not be a bad idea too. Violations of FDCPA come with a hefty fine that may just pay off the balance itself… (though I don’t know if he is even required to follow it since he’s just a person)
OK I just did more research, he is not bound by FDCPA because he is not a third party collection agent. So that part is sort of irrelevant, but it is still a good point of research in general.
I worked for a large credit card company for years. If you were truly only an authorized user (as opposed to a secondary cardholder), you were never legally responsible for the debt to begin with as far as the credit card company was concerned. (Call the company to be sure of the status, but if you never had to give your SSN or have a credit check run before you got the card, you were an AU; you can also check your credit report – as an AU, you don’t build credit history because you are not responsible for the debt.) Now that the balance has been paid off to the original credit card company by way of a balance transfer to a new card in only his name, he is the only one legally responsible for the debt. Period.
His “collection” phone calls to you are harassment, plain and simple, and he needs to stop. You don’t owe him anything, literally. If he wants to fight it, he can, but he’d only be wasting his time and money.
I second the suggestion of contacting legal aid. Or, if you can afford it, paying a lawyer for an hour of their time, explaining the situation and getting their advice. My sister did this when the friends she was living with retracted their offer of staying there for free and tried to charge her back rent. Good luck!
I am a lawyer, but I’m not a specialist in debt collection, so I would caution you to seek out advice from someone who is. But, I’ll tell you one thing now, DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING THAT HE GIVES YOU. Again, DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING.
My impression is that he wants you to sign because he knows that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to collect from you. Just because you paid half of the debt, I don’t think it would necessarily legally bind you to pay the rest of it. It happens all the time that married people have credit cards or even mortgages in one person’s name, and after they split, that person is left holding the bag. I think it would depend most likely on the legal effect of being domestic partners in your state/city on debts of the partnership, and that’s why I strongly encourage you to find someone who knows that area of law well before deciding how to handle it.
I would agree that it’s worth getting the paperwork together so that you can chart out which expenses are yours, and which ones were his, so you have it as backup in case he decides to take you to (small claims) court. But practically speaking, if it were me, I’d just ignore the calls, because it would take a lot of effort and (possible legal) expense for him to collect from you, and there’s some chance that he won’t. But that really depends on your risk tolerance.
If you wanted to take a more aggressive stance (as I might), you could make him a lowball offer, point out that this is the best he’s going to do, and (if true) that it’s possible he might owe you once you account for what you’ve paid so far, and what the money was spent on, so he’s lucky to get that. And make sure that he signs something forever releasing all claims from the beginning of time to the present against you (literally that language, we use it). But that may be something you’d ask a lawyer-friend to do (I do it for friends), on your behalf, so it’s less personal.
So, in a nutshell (1) talk to a lawyer especially re: domestic partnership implications, and (2) ignore (or settle if you don’t want to deal with it). But don’t feel like you owe this guy anything. It seems like he just wants to make sure he “wins,” and not in the awesome Charlie Sheen way.
I was in a very similar situation with an ex. We got along great post-breakup until I started dating the new mr.dk – all of a sudden, he started emailing me about owing him thousands of dollars.
Sars’ (Sars’s?) method worked for me – I tallied up everything I could, made spreadsheets, showed him exactly what was due where. We both owed each other money – I had assumed it was a wash and had walked away from it, but once he made a fuss about it I did the work, and acknowledged that I owed him about $100. I offered to pay him that to consider the matter closed – he wrote me a bitchy email about his poor opinion of the future of my new relationship (which, for the record – 3 years later and we’re talking engagement so suck on that, ex) and I never heard from him again.
Bullying exes just want to stress you out and throw you off your game. Write everything down, make everything clear, state your case, and he’ll probably back down.
Sorry you have to deal with this. If it makes you feel better, I haven’t heard a peep out of my ex for 2 years now. Although a friend of mine accidentally texted him a few months ago with a benign “hey what time are you coming over?” message meant for me (his cell was saved in her phone under my name). He wrote back “who is this?” and she wrote “this isn’t dk?” and he responded “no, but if you see her, tell her she owes me over 10 grand.” Keep it classy, ex-boyfriend. Thanks.
I had a sort of similar problem (someone claimed I owed them money, I disagreed) and I really recommend checking if there’s a Law Students’ Legal Advice Program at the university in your city. It’s free, and not only did the law student give me great advice that I wouldn’t have even thought up, he was even able to write me up a letter in legalese on the university law program’s letterhead to give to the guy. There can be a week or more turnover, because you have to wait for an appointment, have the interview, and then have the student go back and report what they told you to their professors, but it completely solved my problem having that official-looking letter and it was nice to find out what my rights were and all that. It’s probably better too that these sorts of problems can be sorted out without getting into the proper legal system. Good luck!
I don’t really have an answer, but I just want to mention a few things from a lawyer’s perspective (with the caveat that (a) this is not my area of practice and (b) this does not constitute legal advice).
1. I agree that you shouldn’t sign anything new, but I’ve seen a few people mention the idea that if he didn’t get it in writing, you don’t owe anything. This is NOT correct. Unless it violates something like the Statute of Frauds (which concerns contract terms that extend for more than a year, which this may or may not do), verbal agreements are perfectly valid and binding. Their existence is harder to prove, but performance (as in, the fact that you’ve been paying), is one way to prove the existence of a verbal agreement. Now, what the verbal “agreement” is here, is somewhat up in the air (i.e., whether you agreed to pay the whole thing, or just your “half” for communal expenses, or whatever).
2. Melanie mentions the fact that you don’t owe anything to the credit card company – I would agree that this is true. The credit card company can only go after your ex. HOWEVER, this is irrelevant as to debts between you and your ex. Your ex may be the only one on the hook to Visa (and, consequently, the only one in danger of getting his credit score ruined), but this doesn’t absolve you (if you truly do owe) of debts owed to your ex, even if they’re ultimately to be used to pay off what are his separate debts on the credit card.
3. Judge Judy is not a legal authority. Those “court” cases are technically binding arbitration, and do not have to follow the law or legal precedent in their decisions. These sorts of decisions often come down to what’s “fair” or “equitable” (or what makes for good tv!), and not necessarily what would be legally enforceable in an actual court of law. Don’t get me wrong – I enjoy her as much as the next person, but…not law.
Legally, you don’t owe the debt. It’s in his name. Even before he transferred the balance it was in his name. You as an authorized user are just that, and authorized user. He still has all the liability. Even if you were married the entire time, that doesn’t matter. Only the person whose name is on the account is liable. It’s his debt. It was always his debt. You’ve been paying his debt this whole time, again, legally speaking.
If he stopped paying and it went to collections, he’s the only person they could come after. (Which wouldn’t stop them from trying to come after you, especially if he gave them your name and contact info, but that’s just because credit card collectors are jerks and don’t always follow the rules. Bottom line, though, it’s not on your credit report because it was never legally your debt. I am positive about this.)
Morally, it’s a different story. If you feel you guys had an agreement that you would pay it back and you want to honor that agreement, then you should pay it back. (I would echo what Sars said: Figure out what you actually charged and whether or not you’ve actually paid that back by now. Things you charged for “both of you” should probably be split. If you’re the only one who’s been paying the balance (how much $ are we talking here, anyway?), it’s likely you’ve already paid back “your share” and then some. If he starts squawking about interest, well, it’s not really your fault that the interest has been racking up for so long since you are the only one who’s been paying on it. Two people paying = it gets paid a heck of a lot faster.
So decide what you’re comfortable with, and tell him what’s going to happen. But don’t let him bully you. You don’t legally owe anything, and he has no case. If he wants to lawyer up, let him; it’ll only cost him more money but it won’t make you liable for his debt. Don’t agree to larger payments than you can afford. Your first responsibility is to your own well-being, not his. If his “collection calls” get to be harassing, don’t answer, or block his number, or report him. You have the power here. It’s good of you to want to stand good for what you feel you morally owe, but he’s not in a position to define that for you. Only you are. And if you decide you’d rather walk away, do so and forgive yourself.
I’m totally in your corner.
What Sam said. Also a lawyer, but not my area of practice, and also of the opinion that you should probably talk to a lawyer before acting one way or the other.
There are two agreements in play here. One is the agreement between him and the credit card company. The other is the agreement between the two of you. Given the facts you laid out, you probably are not on the hook regarding any of the credit card obligation. You may not be on the hook for any of the debt between the two of you. It probably is very unclear what the agreement between the two of you was, because it wasn’t articulated very clearly.
But that may be to your benefit. I agree that getting as much information as possible on how the debt was accumulated and how it was paid off is a good call so you know what ground you’re on. But also think outside this particular obligation. Think of the whole relationship as a partnership, and start documenting your financial contribution to the relationship as a whole. Did you end up paying more in premiums to put him on your insurance? Bill him for the increase in premiums. How was rent handled? How many miles do you estimate he put on your car? How much financially did you cover for him when he was unemployed? You said that you paid the credit card without contribution from him because you thought he was saving for a ring. Was this articulated? Did he actually start saving for a ring? Do you know what happened with that money? Figure out how much he should have been saving (plus interest) and factor that in to your calculations. That is as much of the agreement as any other discussion you had about how finances were to be handled.
This may seem petty and juvenile, but it is also part of the agreement he is using to demand money from you. You both need a clearer picture of the complete financial agreement and execution before you can decide how to equitably go forward.
I will point out that if you are now living across the country from him and no longer living together, it probably is a lot harder for him to sue you given jurisdictional issues.
Again, I’m a lawyer, but definitely not this kind of lawyer, so seek help from people who know better than me.
Seconding Melanie’s comment re: harassment. He calls daily? Tell him if he calls again you’re reporting him to the cops, and do it.
I second AR – don’t sign a thing until you’ve talked to a lawyer. Your local Bar Association probably has a referral line, and it’s definitely also worth checking with your local law school for any free advice, as Candy suggested.
Good luck!
I am a lawyer. I practice debt-collection law. If you are in DC, MD or VA, you are not (and never were) legally responsible for the debt. In fact, based upon my knowledge of the law nation-wide, I doubt you could be found responsible in any state. Still, it would be worthwhile to check with an attorney in your state.
Oh Sars- How did you know he was a Cubs fan? Thank you for posting my letter. I can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate your advice.
Nation-
Writing this email to Sars lifted a weight off my chest and I feel much better about the situation since reading her response and your comments. What a lovely, thoughtful group to sound off to. Thank you for all your advice and kind words.
The credit card company will not release the statements to me due to the fact that the account is not in my name.
The domestic partnership agreement was just a notarized document for my company.
I lived in IL with the ex but now am living in NJ.
He only made few purchases on the card. It’s primary use was household items and a joint travel and I did almost all of the purchasing and planning. I always considered this our joint debt that I paid for as my contribution to the household. I agree that this entire thing is a power play for him. I didn’t mention some of the finer details because I wanted to get a clear response as to whether I should pay this money back but I’ll share a little of the juice now. He started the daily phone calls when he discovered I have a boyfriend. Also, he made the offer to split the remaining balance with me after a lawyer friend of ours was in town visiting. I believe it is a desperation move also.
I have an appointment with a law clinic tomorrow morning. If it interests the nation I would be happy to share what I learn. Thanks for the empowerment. I hope I can do the same for you all some day.
Actually, I’m fairly sure that, if all Cubs was was an “authorized user” on the original card, and she and her ex never put in writing that she would pay the bill, then she’s not liable legally for a penny, and never was.
Sadly, I was in a similar situation from the other side, but in a less shades-of-gray kind of way: when I was in college, I had excellent credit, and my mom and sister begged me to get cards in my name that they could use as authorized users “for emergencies.” I was a trusting idiot and did it, only to see them run up $15,000 between the two of them over the course of a few years. When I finally had enough and canceled the cards, they both dropped the bills in my lap. When I tried to explain to the credit card company during their numerous and fun collection calls that the debt wasn’t mine, the response was, “Well, you were the primary on the card, legally, you’re responsible for the debt, so, too bad.” I eventually had to file bankruptcy for the situation, and the lawyer told me the same thing — that it doesn’t matter who else’s name is on the account, as the primary card holder, it’s my debt legally. Mom and sis weren’t obligated to pay anything.
I totally think you should talk to a lawyer and see if the law is the same in your state and in your situation, but I think chances are good that you could get off scot-free here from a legal standpoint.
Cubs Fan:
I can’t add anything of significance here except to say NEVER LET ANYONE STRONG ARM YOU INTO SIGNING ANYTHING (I know lawyers have actually said that here, but I just have to chime in on that one), and I really hope you squash this creep. I mean, I know you need to be business-like and calm and everything? But I just want you to know that I’m rooting for you (and I really hope you squash that creep, because I am 34 going on 12).
Also, I think it’s awesome how many people contributed personal experience, plus lawyers were willing to post advice to help out – I just think that’s so cool that you’re willing to do that for others! LOVE this site!
@Cubs fan – I can only speak for myself, but I would LOVE an update after you speak with the law clinic. Best of luck!
So glad to hear you’re going to the clinic, Fan. Nobody can give you useful legal advice about what your liability is based on a letter to an advice column, and someone who can meet with you will know what questions to ask.
Whatever the answer to the legal question turns out to be, you’re going to have to deal with all the other stuff — the hurt, the lingering shreds of this relationship, whatever — just the same. You have shared a lot of information here that hasn’t got anything to do with whether you owe this money or not, either legally or ethically. It doesn’t really make a bit of difference whether he makes a lot of money now, or whether you’re broke, or whether he cheated on you, or whether he has a new girlfriend, but clearly these things are important to you personally and they FEEL like they’re relevant to whether you owe him any money.
That makes me suspect that you have some stuff to work through with this breakup where the money has become a bit of a stand-in, and however the debt is resolved, it’s not going to take away the sting of his apparently being a giant jackwad. So whether you pay him anything or not, focus on yourself and go be happy, because either way, the debt isn’t the primary issue, I don’t think. If you wind up telling him to shove off about the money, all the other stuff will still be true and will still hurt. So see the clinic, see what your rights are, and whatever happens, you can still get on with your life. You deserve that.
Please post the update after you meet with the law clinic!
Yes, update, update! I have my fingers crossed that this will result in good news for you. I’m glad you’re feeling a bit better/stronger. Your ex sounds like a giant tool. Perhaps he would like to join the Vatican Warlock Assassins Guild (TM). :)
So glad to hear that legal advice is being sought. I really suspect that once you’ve done the work of adding up expenses (and not just the credit card expenses, but other stuff you covered) that DoucheBoy will back off — if only because he’ll be forced to see that you’re prepared to defend yourself. His whole scheme has been dependent on you not doing that.
Stand your ground, protect yourself, and enjoy the much happier life you deserve without this guy.
IANAL, and I don’t know what the actual ramifications are, but Cub’s boyfriend is a MORON for making her an authorized user on his card before they had any established legal relationship.
Again, IANAL, but I am about 95% sure that all of the debt legally belongs to him. Morally, it’s another question, but legally? It’s in his name. Authorized users don’t co-sign on the debt.
MORON.
Do not do this, people. Get a joint account if your SO can’t get a card on their own and Absolutely Must Have A Card, so at least the debt-repayment belongs to both of you, not just the good-credit-scored-one. But do not do the Authorized User thing.
D’oh, missed the “registered domestic partnership” part. Presumably the responsibility for the debt was to have been parceled out by your divorce-equivalent attorney. If it didn’t get assigned to you when you broke up, then it’s likely not yours. (But I’m even less familiar with RDPs, so…???)
Yes, please do update! (Sorry, I should have read all the comments before commenting!) Good luck, Cubs!
Another anecdote: I had situation with an ex and money. I’d steel myself up to ask about it every few months, and then he’d respond with a very nice dodge. I was trying so hard to be understanding, and I just couldn’t accept that that he would ever take advantage of me (of all people!).
This went on for…too long. Finally, I (tearfully) talked to an attorney acquaintance, went through all my statements, made some spreadsheets, and then went to pick up forms for small claims. I felt sick to my stomach staring at the court forms. At that point, a wise soul said, “I’ll be your friend no matter what you do, but when I hear you talking about this, I keep hearing how upset you are about the loss of trust. A court decision isn’t going to restore that.” Bingo.
I wrote him a letter saying that I was sorry this went so poorly, and that I’d never ask about the money again–good bye and good luck. (I needed the closure of that act–or had to get a last word in?) I felt a HUGE weight lifted off, and have been in better spirits over the whole thing ever since.
Postscript: To my surprise, after some time passed, he sent me a check for a partial amount, and has sent a few since then. Which is great–though it’s funny too because my first reaction was, “wait, no, wait…I had closure.”
1. Do not sign anything.
2. Change your number.
3. Stop thinking about it.
You’re in different states, right? He probably won’t sue you. He probably won’t even be able to serve you.
Do not bother crunching the “who owes what” numbers; it’s a worthless exercise unless you are actually a married couple who is divorcing. You paid his credit card out of a joint account. Just because you had a card doesn’t make it your credit card AT ALL. It’s pretty cut and dry here.
Please stop beating yourself up about this and making it about karma. You behaved as a couple for a long time; this is a casualty. IT IS NOT YOUR BURDEN. Don’t let your guilt make you take responsibility for it.
Cubs, you said you used the card for *domestic* purchases – that is, for purchases for the home you *both* shared. Food, linens, lamps, whatever – you weren’t stocking up on boxes of, diamond-studded boots for yourself alone. And you have, in fact, already paid off *half* the bill, yourself.
Please let us know how you make out with legal counsel, but honestly? You have, in fact, paid off *half* of the domestic expenses that were charged to the card. Morally, I think you owe nothing more – you’ve paid off your share of the domestic and joint charges incurred. I’m hoping that you will confirm for us that legally, he gets to pay the remaining half – you know, HIS share of the domestic/joint travel expenses incurred. And AMEN on the SIGN NOTHING!
What a jerk. I’m sorry for everyone who’s found himself or herself in this situation; been there, still smarting from it.
Hi Sars and Fantastic TN readers,
I don’t know if anyone will see this but I just want to thank you all for giving me such good advice and positive thoughts during a dark time. The legal clinic I worked with told me not to pay another cent and cent my ex a letter full of legal jargon telling him to back off. I haven’t heard from him since and am altogether happier person. It was the support from this community that helped me stand up for myself. I can’t thank you all enough.
CF