The Vine: March 3, 2005
Hi Sars,
love the column and your site and tonight I ran into a situation that seemed right up
your alley.
My mom, stepdad and I just scored season tickets for a minor league team. It’s close by
and has a great facility. This evening we found our seats, sat down and prepared to
enjoy the game. However, behind us were four or five preteen girls who not only talked
incessantly, two of them had voices like mating hyenas and none of them made any attempt
to control the volume. And they weren’t talking about the game, which would have been
more tolerable, but they were chit-chatting.
My mother has severe hearing loss and wears hearing aids, yet even she was finding these
girls unbearable. I turned around in my seat and asked the parents to please get the
kids to tone it down a little. The mother immediately got defensive and said, “Well,
this isn’t a church, you know. They’re kids having a good time.”
I said I understood that, but they were being very loud and could they just take it down
a notch? The mother immediately shot back, “Well, I’ll bet you don’t have kids.” Then
my mother turned around and said that she did have kids and what difference did it make?
We turned around and the girls were a little quieter for a while but after half an
inning they were back shrieking at each other. Mom and I got up and went over to the
section attendent, explained the situation and asked if there were any other seats we
could move to.
Twenty minutes later (and after he had stood behind the group for a few minutes), the
attendant found three other seats many rows away from those kids. The woman sitting
beside me and the couple on the other side of my stepdad also requested seat changes
because they could not enjoy the game over the racket in row M.
But we’ve discovered that that family also has season tickets, so we can expect to
have this problem almost every time we attend a game (although my mother is ready to
demand a refund from the person she bought the tickets from).
Should I have just kept my mouth shut and gone off to request the seat change? Should
we give the tickets for the next couple of games to the most obnoxious people we know
and give the noisy family a little taste of their own medicine? And when does a kid’s
behavior go from “having a good time” to “infringing on others’ enjoyment”?
A devoted fan of TN and baseball
PS I have no stalker tendencies and I wasn’t about to bring it up to Snitty Mom but how
wise is it to allow your child to discuss their life in sort of intimate detail? After
only three innings, I knew where two of the girls went to school, when and where they had
dance lessons, and could probably narrow down the street they lived on. I have no
intention of ever using that info and I don’t want to sidetrack the issue but this
isn’t the first time I’ve overheard that kind of stuff and I wonder what your thoughts
are on the subject.
Dear Fan,
I would wait and see how it goes at the next couple of games. It sounds to me like those girls weren’t all part of the same family, which means that in all likelihood you’ll have a different, and less annoying, cast of characters at the next game. See who shows up next time, and take it from there.
If it’s the same shrieky bunch of girls, do the same thing — ask the girls nicely to keep it down; then ask the adult in charge; then get an attendant and point out to him or her that this isn’t the first time, other people have had to move seats, et cetera. The stadium personnel will take care of it; they have to. It’s bad for business when obnoxious apples threaten to spoil the whole barrel, and you should leverage that fact…politely, of course.
As far as the girls divulging personal details…eh. Nobody becomes a stalker just by hearing that kind of information, and if it is overheard by someone with stalkerish leanings, that’s more bad luck than anything else. I mean, if someone wanted to stalk those girls, he’d find a way whether they’d given him overt hints or not. Not that people should rattle off their home addresses and credit card numbers in public, but as far as using that kind of information for ill, you sort of have to play the odds and assume that people who overhear your conversations either aren’t listening or won’t bother doing anything about what they hear.
Dear Sars,
There’s a situation that’s been developing for some time amongst my current
(and some former) housemates. Even though I think you’ll tell me to just
keep out of it, I want to check because as far as I can tell I’m already in
it.
I’m in the last year of university. I have lived with mostly the same people
the whole time I’ve been here — eight of us were put together in the first
year, then we got a house together in the second year, then three moved out
and five of us still live together, and we see the other three regularly.
People got together or slept together et cetera in the first year as they often
do. The couples were Steve and Laura, and John and Jane (not their real
names, obviously). Steve fell hard for Laura and is still quite mad about
her two years later, although their relationship petered out after a couple
of months in the first year and she is not interested anymore. John and Jane
slept together a few times, she felt more for him than he did for her, and
it again petered out in even less time and they were never officially a
couple. But Jane still felt that he was in some way “hers” and didn’t like
the idea of anyone else having him.
Moving on two years, Jane is completely in love and happy with her first
long-term boyfriend. Steve is still in love with Laura. I found out in the
summer of last year, that Laura and John have been sleeping together since
Easter. This was HUGE, unbelievable news. Of the other people in our group,
all the girls except Jane now know about it, and the other boy, Ben, found
out soon enough too.
It seemed understandable at first that Laura and John didn’t want Steve and
Jane to find out about them, because I thought it would just trail off
quietly and be forgotten. But it’s been nearly a year now since it started,
and while they insist they’re still just friends (who have sex) they spend
every minute together and are basically a couple but won’t admit it. They’re
going on holiday together, for God’s sake!
They still won’t tell Jane, though — to begin with I think it was because of
Jane’s possessiveness about John (which I never thought would be an issue
really, since I know how happy she is with her boyfriend), but now Laura
just knows how furious Jane is going to be that she lied to her for so long.
Jane HATES being lied to. I am not sure at all that she will forgive Laura
for keeping her in the dark for so long. But as far as that’s concerned,
well, she made the damn bed. The problem is that I am closer to Jane than
anyone else and I know she will also feel that I’ve lied to her and blame me
for not telling her sooner.
What has brought all this to a head is that Steve found out on Friday night
when he saw them kissing and asked them point-blank what was going on. So
now it’s really only a matter of time before Jane finds out from him and
that’ll just be it.
I’ve considered what I should do. The choices I can see are:
a) Sit Jane down one day and tell her all about it, with Laura’s permission
or without;
b) The above, only lie about how long I’ve known about it so it looks less
awful that I didn’t tell her;
c) Make Laura tell her;
d) Wait for her to find out from someone else.
I’m tempted by a) or b) because I think she’ll be less angry at the person
who tells her first than the one who keeps it from her longest. I don’t want
to lose her friendship; she’s one of my closest friends. We talk all the
time — just not about this. To begin with I felt like I was keeping Laura’s
secret because it wasn’t mine to tell but now everyone knows but Jane, and
I’ve betrayed her too by not telling her! Sorry to get wound up about it,
but I really don’t know which would be the lesser evil here.
Thanks for the help,
Waiting For The Shit To Hit The Fan
Dear Just Leave The Room Already,
You know, I had a whole response here about how you should just stay out of it because if Jane chooses to have a hissy, it’s her own lookout, but you know what? Just tell her.
And I can hear the emails winging their way towards me right now all “it’s not her bidness” this and “what about Laura?” that, and seriously, whatever, and fuck Laura, because the entire situation is a balloon of needless drama that someone should have popped months ago, so: here’s a pin. Do it. “Jane, Laura and John are doing the Posturepedic polka. I’m sorry I didn’t tell you sooner; please forgive me.” End of story.
Look, what you want to do here is reduce the drama. There is no way to do that except to tell Jane what’s going on. Yes, it might burn Laura, but really, that’s between her and Jane, and Laura did this to herself by Days of Our Lives-ing it up with the sneaking around and the Clintonian “oh, we’re not together.” Jane is an adult, she has a boyfriend, and this whole thing should have been, at most, awkward for, like, a week, and then a non-issue. Now everyone’s involved, for no good reason that I can see, and if Laura and John want to have a relationship, they should do so, or not, without everyone else having to take bit parts in the spy-in-the-house-of-love movie of their lives.
Steve already knows. Game over. Tell her and move on, and if people get pissed, point out that they need to get lives. Because they do. Because come on.
Sars:
I’ve got an etiquette issue that you probably don’t have to deal with much anymore, having disposed of Black Betsy recently: what is the deal with people not queuing up at highway exit ramps?
Where I exit on the way to work, there is usually a one-mile backup in the right lane for the exit (the exits are five miles apart up here on the NYS Thruway), and there are always the idiots who try to merge in at the last second. In the evening, there’s an exit lane starting about a mile out from the exit which most people pull into, but again there are those who wait until the last several feet to get over, and they actually get angry when I don’t let them (since I grew up driving in NYC, it’s like water off a duck’s back).
Okay, some of these could be people who are approaching these interchanges for the first time and don’t realize what they are doing. But, really, not all. And we’ve all had those moments where we get distracted and forget that we want to exit until the last second and pray that a path opens up right to the tolls, but either the scenery is so stunning that it distracts drivers, or the road is full of morons (um, maybe that IS the answer).
So what’s the “right” way to drive in this situation? How far back are we expected to suck it up and get in line, and how far back justifies hopping over a lane, speeding to the front, and swerving in front of some nice, patient person?
Signed,
Of Course, I Would Never Do That
Dear Me Neither, Not That There’s Any Reward In It,
It’s not absentmindedness, or inexperience with the turn-off, or even stupidity. It’s entitlement. Some people just expect to jump the line, shaving a whopping forty-one seconds of their commutes by speeding to the front and then nosing rudely in and calling it a “merge” because they think they’re more important than other people. Welcome to the Brooklyn Bridge BQE exit, every hour of every day.
There’s no justification for it, but there’s no point getting pissed about it, either; for every driver you fox out of cutting in front of you, there are another three waiting. The proper etiquette and the safe way to drive is, of course, to identify and occupy the correct lane as soon as you need it, but again…not the world we live in.
I would let one cutter in on each merge, for the sake of karma, but even though you’re in the right, it doesn’t matter. Let it go. It’s better for your mental health.
Dear Sars,
I have been reading the Vine for a few weeks now and think you give incredibly good advice and so I wondered what you’d say to me.
I am a 27-year-old lawyer — so, old enough and (hopefully) practical enough to be able to sort my own head out — but…for some reason I don’t seem to be able to.
I was with my boyfriend for six years, living together for five and a half. For the last ten months of our relationship, we had some pretty horrible fights, mainly about his lack of interest in me sexually, he thought I’d put on weight, et cetera. Money was an issue for us too — even though he earned more than me, he couldn’t let go of the fact that I came from a wealthier background than him, so to avoid us staying in most of the time, I generally paid to go out to dinner and so on. Which, don’t get me wrong, I was happy to do. (He does still owe me a few hundred pounds but to be honest I don’t really care about that.) He was sweet, funny and from the outside we seemed to lead a pretty charmed life together. He “got” me in a way that very few people do and we had so many “in-jokes” and wonderful memories together — I can’t believe it has all gone forever.
However we finally broke up last April in a very traumatic way. And I still can’t let go almost a year on. We have many many mutual friends that we made together at law school so he’s remained in my life — from popping up on group emails to birthday drinks et cetera. Since we’ve split up we met up about once every two weeks, mainly because I couldn’t bear not to have him in my life. Since we split up I have also lost a lot of weight (silver lining) and now he can’t keep his hands off me — sometimes I have gone with it, other times I have stayed firm and said no. He talks about his new girlfriends in front of me and generally doesn’t seem at all sensitive to what I’ve been going through.
At Christmas it came to a head. At a friend’s birthday party he begged me to go home with him, which I said I would on the condition we had a serious talk when he got back from the two-week holiday he was about to go on. Fast forward three weeks after his return and he hasn’t contacted me.
I was so fed up with myself that on the advice of one of my best friends I started counselling. I have been only going for two weeks so far but am not sure how helpful it is as I just tend to cry there. Plus I had started seeing a really sweet second guy who finished with me today (hence the impetus to write) because he felt 1) I wasn’t into him enough and 2) his heart wasn’t really in it either. Both valid points, but another rejection stings. (I started seeing him back in October but we had split up over Christmas for a while when I saw my ex — again because he thought I wasn’t really into him that much.)
Any thoughts would be really appreciated, Sars — I know I need to move on — but how?
Sad in the City
Dear Sad,
First order of business: Stop beating yourself up for not being over it yet, still having feelings for him, “how could I have handled this so badly he’s moved on I haven’t he can still manipulate me I don’t affect him I’m nothing I’m invisible ehhhhhhhhhhhhh-heh-hehhhhhhhhh I AM SO UGLY WHEN I CRY-EEEEEE!” In a perfect world, you’d have moved on, gotten married to Jude Law, and bought your ex’s apartment building and turned it co-op on his ass, but in this world, you’re still sad, and that’s okay.
You’re still sad, though, because you haven’t really broken up with him. It’s still dragging on like a patient on life support when, really, there’s no hope — he’s willing to take advantage of your feelings, but not take care of them, and that won’t work. You need to cut off all contact with him for…let’s say six months. You have a lot of mutual friends and whatnot, so if you see him at a cocktail party or a work thing, you don’t have to ice him and make it uncomfortable for others, but just make it clear to him that this friendsy thing you’re doing with the drinks and the sharing about the new girls and the hands all over a body he gave up without a fight? Done. Because friends don’t behave that insensitively; he’s not a good friend for you right now.
Keep going to counseling; it’s a supportive environment where you’re allowed to be as sad as you want, and crying is not a waste of the hour by any means. You’ll start seeing some progress soon, but again, don’t get on your own back about how you “only” weep in therapy. You’re not being graded; you’re trying to get happy.
This is the hardest part, when you really have to make yourself slam the door as hard as you can, lock it, and ignore any knocking. It’s lonely, you’re unsure of it, every single other person in your town is in a liplock…it sucks. But you have to cut your ex off and get through the sucky part so that you can…get through the sucky part. Have it done. Put it behind you, truly.
Fun it ain’t, but it’s worth it.
Hi Sarah,
In a recent Vine, you suggested that a soon-to-be grad student
choose Columbia — I couldn’t agree more, it’s a great school in a
great place. As for the New York part, I’m a little curious. I’ve
lived here for almost a year (since late March), and while I like the
city, I just…don’t have that deeper appreciation. You have said
before to give it a year or two and I plan to do that. However, I was
wondering if, as a New Yorker, you could recommend certain
things/experiences that would help broaden my experience and clue me
into what I might be missing out on.
I know largely this sort of thing is left up to chance and
serendipity, like a great rendition of “Oh Danny Boy” by an Irish
musician on the subway platform or when all the traffic lights go your
way on the walk to work, but I feel a little lonely and a little out
of sync with the New York current and I just wanted to know if there
were any good bars/music venues/theaters/museums/parks that you would
recommend, or just things that you liked to do that made you feel more
“a part of it all” rather than “apart from it all.” Any thoughts or
recommendations, or even a swift kick to the ass to just leave my
apartment, are welcome.
Thanks for even reading this, and again, love the site.
All camp aside, wanting to be “in a New York state of mind”
Dear Mind,
It just takes time. You’re at the part of it right now where everyone else in the city seems to know it better, like it more, take better advantage of it, and fit into it better than you do. Everyone else seems to have a group, and a plan, and a New York Lifestyle; you’re just…tired.
I don’t know why it’s like that, but it is. You don’t feel like you’re getting anything back, you don’t feel like anything about it is yours, and it’s not a city that is going to help you with that, or with anything else, and you’re like, why do I pay half my income in rent to feel like I don’t exist, fuck this, I’m moving home.
You kind of just have to wait it out, because it’s not really about the things to do or the people to see; sure, make friends and go do things, because there’s so much nutty stuff to do and why not, but it’s not like you go to the Cloisters and then you have some big epiphany about why this is the greatest city in the world (although you should go to the Cloisters anyway). The city has a rhythm that is not natural to most people, I think, and it takes time for living here to just be living here and not an active, conscious effort every day. It takes time to perfect your hand-over-torso crossover Metrocard swoop. It takes time to pick, then defend with both zeal and authority, your side in the great “H&H vs. David’s vs. Ess-A-Bagel” debate. It can take a year for your corner deli guy to have your shit up by the time you get to the head of the line; one deli, it took five years for me to get to “the usual, beb?” But when I did, man, what a day. I had a “usual” in New York damn City.
So, hang out. Eavesdrop. Do stuff by yourself, especially; do the things you want to do, not that you think you should do because It’s So New York-y. That’s how you make the city yours, your home, and not just this canyon of loud that you happen to live in. It stops being about surviving, one day, when you’re not looking, and becomes about living here, rolling your eyes knowingly at any mention of the G train or Roma Torre, having one deli for an egg-and-cheese and another for coffee.
It’ll happen. It just takes a while.
Tags: boys (and girls) etiquette friendships kids NYC roommates
