The Vine: March 4, 2009
Hi Sars,
About five years ago, when I was younger and not so smart, I went out and got a tattoo on my lower back. (Like everyone else in the world.) Perhaps not surprisingly, I decided I didn’t want the tattoo anymore and about two years ago, I started having laser treatments to remove it. I had seven treatments to the tune of about $2,500.
Long story short, I can’t afford to continue the laser treatments, which hadn’t yet made much of a difference anyway — they just made the tattoo verrrryy slightly lighter and patchy. If I could afford it, I would probably continue the treatments, but I’m searching for a more inexpensive solution to remove the tattoo. That brings me to my question, which I pose to the readers as well.
Have you, or anyone you know, ever used one of those tattoo removal creams with any luck? I’m thinking of Tattoo-Off, Wrecking Balm, TatBGone, things like that. I don’t want to just cover the tattoo up with makeup; I would really like to get rid of it entirely. I’ve tried searching on the internet, but all I seem to find are paid advertisements and fake testimonials. I’m looking for a real live person to tell me that this stuff works, or that I shouldn’t waste my money.
Thank you!
Sadly tattooed
Dear Sad,
I’ve never used one, or heard from anyone who’s used one, but I have to doubt they’ll do much good.A tattoo is permanent because it’s a burn, a scar, that’s then dyed, so a topical cream isn’t going to do much to address that; I think you’d have to look at the contents and see if it’s some sort of modified acid peel — and I wouldn’t even use those without a dermatologist’s say-so.
The readers will no doubt weigh in, but my feeling is, don’t bother with the creams.Ask your dermatologist if any other options exist besides the laser treatments; you may even want to consult with a different derm, looking for one whose practice is really focused on scar and tattoo treatment.
Hey Sars,
I have eight — soon to be nine — nieces and nephews, all of whom I adore. They range in age from 2.5 to 10 (another baby is due any minute now). As an auntie with no kids of my own, I enjoy giving them gifts for their birthdays and Christmas, usually books (these kids all have too many toys as it is).
So far, in six years of active aunthood (some of the nieces and nephews are from my brother’s wife’s previous marriage), I have received one thank-you note, from my six-year-old niece for her most recent birthday presents.
I’m not wrong to wish the kids would write thank-you notes, obviously. So far I haven’t said anything to their parents (two sets: my brother and his wife have five, going on six, kids, and my sister-in-law and my late — other — brother have three). I’m afraid it will seem rude. Would it be okay to send the kids stationery and stamps, or is that
passive-aggressive?
I would be totally happy with a thank-you e-mail, by the way — it doesn’t have to be paper, as far as I’m concerned. And of course, I don’t expect the little ones, who are too young to read, to write thank-you notes.
When I was a kid, I only wrote thank-you notes when my mom insisted on it. I know my SILs and my brother are busy, and I’m sure thank-you notes just aren’t on their radar. What would Sars do?
Thanks,
Miranda
Dear Miranda,
This is always a tough one — you want to speak directly to the problem, because that’s always best, but on the other hand, it’s bad manners to point out the manners failures of others.So, what to do?
I wouldn’t send the stationery; it is kind of passive-aggressive, and also, I suspect the hint will not be taken.So, while it’s perhaps a bit rude of you to do, I would just put it out there to the parents: “Would you guys mind having the kids who are old enough write me a thank-you note or email when they get gifts from me?I really love hearing from them, and also it’ll let me know the gifts got there okay.”
That last part won’t work if you-all live in the same town, or you do the gift-giving in person, so feel free to edit, but — look, I didn’t like writing thank-you notes either, back in the day, and my mother had to harass us to do it, but kids should know that it needs doing whether they feel like it or not, that courtesy is important.You don’t have to get into that with your siblings, but it’s important to you, and you should say so.
But you should say so once, and that’s it.Don’t nag; don’t apologize for it.Mention it, and let it go.
Hi Sars,
I’m a student at an “alternative” high school that emphasizes personal responsibility, trust, etc., which to the majority of students means it’s easy to sneak out and smoke pot. Which, you know, not my thing, but I don’t think I really have the right to judge, so whatever. The teachers at the school and the opportunities it provides to actually learn things are completely worth it, but it’s occasionally frustrating to be seen as an arrogant know-it-all because I am a straight-A, National Merit, math-camp-at-Stanford-and-MIT sort of girl and tend to avoid drugs.
It’s been a long-running struggle for me to gain — not acceptance, because I wouldn’t get it, but acknowledgment as a human with worthwhile talents, from the majority of the people I spend those 8 hours a day with. There’s another school nearby where I do marching band and other nerdy activities, and I have friends there; I’m lonelier than I’d like, but it’s not like I’m completely excluded from any form of social life.
Recently a group of former friends from middle/elementary school who now go to my school have started reaching out to me in some form or another — actually starting conversations, asking me to lunch, things like that. Nothing major, but it’s the closest I’ve been to anyone at my school for three years. And while most of them use pot, it doesn’t appear to be fucking up their lives too much (still varsity athletes, get good grades, have good relationships with the people around them, haven’t totaled their cars yet, unlike several other people I know) so I don’t really have any moral objections.
At least twice, though, I’ve been somewhere with one or more of them, most recently out of school for the permitted hour for lunch, and seen their drug of choice in a compartment or wherever. Which has made me realize how uncomfortable I am with being in the presence of marijuana when I could be implicated, especially when it’s technically during school hours.
I have never been pressured to try it myself, and they know me well enough to not attempt that, nor has anyone actually lit up or anything while in my presence. But…it’s illegal, justly or not, and I have no desire to get myself in trouble because of being in a car with someone.
On the other hand, I rather like these people, and it’s so nice to have even friendly acquaintances around me that I’m having trouble bringing myself to just stop hanging out with them.
So, my question: am I overreacting? Is there a valid reason to stop spending time with them, simply because I saw a little more than I would have liked? And I know that this is all tied up in issues I have with myself and self-image, and feeling unjustly marginalized, and why am I rationalizing for these people if they’ve spent almost three years ignoring me anyway? But I can’t separate myself from that enough to know if the basic issue of being in the presence of marijuana is something to worry about.
Feel free to tell me I’m an idiot,
Ignorance Is Bliss
Dear Iggy,
Yes, you’re overreacting.I won’t tell you there’s no possibility that you could be “implicated” in something, because you never know what’s going to happen in life, but if they’re not toking in your presence, or while you’re driving somewhere with them, and you’re not trying to get through an airport checkpoint with them, it’s just not a big deal.
And if they do light up around you, tell them you’re not comfortable with it.If someone gives you a ride and a joint gets lit in the car, ask them politely if they’d mind waiting until you’re dropped off.And if they stop hanging out with you because of that, then that’s what they do — it isn’t my experience that people tend to act like a Very Special Episode in those situations, and pressure you or act like you’re a freak, but if they do, you’re better off.You weren’t close with these people anyway; I know that’s not the point, but if you’re not okay with their behavior, you’re not.
I do think that you have to get a little more okay with yourself, though.Your letter has a dismissive, uptight tone to it; you say you don’t think you have the right to judge, but what I’m getting is more like “…but I do judge, because I follow all the rules and get straight As, but I’m not doing that well socially, and I resent these stoners for doing something illegal and still achieving, not to mention being popular.”I mean, I certainly wouldn’t call you an “arrogant know-it-all,” but if you talk to them the way you talk about them…it’s just a little imperious.I think you have to form relationships with these people, and react to what they actually say and do, instead of worrying about what they might do, or assuming beforehand that what they do will slag on or exclude you somehow.They’ve reached out to you; be yourself, and bring the defensiveness down a notch.
Tags: etiquette friendships the fam
Perhaps the next gift auntie should give is another book — one on ettiquette rules and manners. (I’m not being snide; I consider my Emily Post to be an invaluable reference tool, because there are things I just do not know.) I’m certain there are books like that for kids.
Iggy I think it’s okay for you to be wary too. Long story, very short: I have never used, but I was once arrested for being in a car that (completely unbeknownst to me) contained pot. Okay, technically not arrested, since in the end I was not the one charged with anything. But I assure you that made no difference when I was being handcuffed and tucked into the back of a police car. So if I were you, I would not want to be in the car with these friends and their pot either.
Or, at the very least, do not be in their car with their pot while also trespassing in a state park in the middle of the night. That’s not a bad moral either. But I swear he was going to let us go until he found the weed.
@Lib: As a matter of course, yes — but I don’t expect anyone else to do it. The rule of thumb that I use is unless it’s a blood relative, with whom I lived growing up, I write a note. Sometimes that has fallen through the cracks; I don’t think everyone at my 30th birthday got a thank-you note, but then, they may have. But from a gift I’ve given in person, I don’t expect one.
For a birthday card or congratulations or something, I often send an email acknowledging it. Again, I don’t expect this level of rigor from everyone else. It’s just easier to keep it straight in my head and make sure the “necessary” ones get done to do them all the time.
Part of me wants to tell Ignorance to just chill and let it go, and to echo whoever the awesome person was that said, “High schoolers are twats, but it’s temporary.” On the other hand… I’m a parole officer, so I know people who’ve gotten in quite a bit of trouble because police can really stretch the truth when they charge people with possession. If you’re in a car with three other people and one of them has drugs, ALL of you can get charged with possession. And, as someone pointed out, high schoolers are twats, so someone’s not always going to man up and say, “Yep, it only belongs to me.” I’ve seen people rat out their “friends” before for a lighter sentence, even if said friends had nothing to do with the offense in the first place. A scared teenage is not always going to be rational or fair. Scared adults usually aren’t either, for that matter.
Of course, with pot this isn’t so much of a big deal. If other drugs are involved, it certainly can be. From what you’ve said, though, it sounds like they’ve been really cool about respecting the fact that you don’t smoke and keeping it away from you. It doesn’t sound like there’s much of a problem here.
So, I’d say this to Indigenous: figure out what’s really bothering you. Is it: 1) that the friends you now have at one point wouldn’t give you the time of day, 2) the fact that you are around drugs at ALL and this bothers you on mere principle, or 3) the fact that you are around something illegal and could possibly get in trouble for it? If it’s 1 or 2, chill out. If it really and truly is #3 (even though I don’t think it is), then bite the bullet and cut yourself off from your friends with a minimum of drama.
I’m thinking it’s #1. In which case: forgive and forget. Easier said than done, I know, but I really wish I’d figured that out at 17 rather than 26.
I’m about to say something I’ve never said in more years of reading the Vine than I can recall easily: Sars, I think you’re wrong. Your advice to Ignorance is off-base. If she’s caught in a car with pot, the cops won’t care that it’s not her pot, and then she’ll be pretty well screwed for getting into the good college that her grades and activities deserve. I would never get into a car that I knew contained drugs.
Moreover, I think Ignorance should be commended for refusing to associate with something that’s illegal. Lots of people think that smoking pot isn’t a big deal, but the fact is, it’s still illegal, and I support any young person who chooses to obey the law, rather than treating it as optional. I didn’t associate with the pot-smokers in high school, and I didn’t drink, either. Why not? Because it was illegal; simple as that. I was raised that they law is to be obeyed, even if you think it’s silly or stupid or socially inconvenient. Did I pay a social price for that? Yes, absolutely. I had plenty of friends, though, and I still have them 20 years later.
Question: if it’s OK to skip the thank-you note when you recieve a gift in person, why do brides and new moms send them out after a shower, when the giver is almost always there?
I like sending and recieving thank-you notes, so I’m not trying to wriggle out of anything. It just seems like an odd exception to the rule.
Iggy: I don’t really have too much to add to Sars’s advice, but I was struck by how similar your situation sounds to mine when I was in high school… alternative school, check; nerdiest one there, check; social scene mostly at normal school, check; intensely uncomfortable with drug use, check.
It’s a tough line to walk, not sure whether you’re being uptight or a pushover. I think the key is to be confident in your own choices, but refrain from judging others for theirs. I mean, everyone has vices, whether you’re a high school student or an adult, whether it’s pot or something else, and unless you’re being put in immediate danger, I find it’s best to live and let live.
I may be projecting, but you sound like you might be someone who doesn’t take a lot of risks. But sometimes it’s worth it to take risks. I mean, I sort of wish I had been more of a person for whom friendship was more important than my Permanent Record. You know? (You may say that the friendship in question is superficial, but then, so is the risk, really.)
One thing that was helpful for me, and this is probably going to be a weird piece of advice, was improv acting and playing hypothetical/character/pretend-based games like Dungeons & Dragons. It was a chance to let loose and make bad choices in a controlled environment with no real consequences. It helped me to empathize with people who did stupid shit in real life. Sometimes stupid shit is fun. And sometimes it’s not as stupid as you think.
My other piece of unsolicited advice is for you to go to a normal college, because grades turn out to be awesome once you get them back.
Sadly Tattooed, I too have a tat that I would rather not have. Luckily it’s small, only two colours and is on my upper arm where it can be cleverly hidden with shirt sleeves. I have hated this tat from the time I got it and I never went back to have it “finished” because I hated it so much. A few years ago I seriously looked into having it removed and after hours of googling I came to the conclusion that laser treatments were my only option. I didn’t find anything, or anyone, reputable that would recommend the creams. It seems, from my research, that they are a bunch of baloney manufactured for the desperate and designed only to take your money, not your tat, from you.
Have you considered a consult at another laser clinic? Perhaps the one you’ve been visiting isn’t using the latest in laser technology. Don’t laugh, I’ve known two people who had wildly different results from different clinics using different lasers. I’m sorry I don’t remember the specifics. I also understand that some less than reputable clinics treat the tat, but not the WHOLE tat in one session, just treating it in a spotty way which means more paying sessions for you.
I’ve only had one treatment on my tat (it’s light blue with a dark blue outline) and the doctor I saw estimated about 5 sessions ($100 a session since it’s so small) to have it removed to the point of not being able to see it at all, or at worst just have it look like I have a light bruise. After just one treatment I would say that the colour is about 50% lighter than it was pre-laser.
Please don’t waste your money on creams, from what I can tell they are scamalicious. Please also try for a consult at another laser clinic so you can be sure you’re getting the best treatment possible. Oh, and good luck!
Iggy: For what it’s worth (and this isn’t actually about your question), almost everyone feels like an outsider in high school, including the people you probably perceive as popular or accepted. I just wanted to let you know (in case no one else has) that everything changes when you get to University. So don’t worry too much about acceptance now; the situation is very temporary (although it may not seem so).
Miranda: You might consider sending worried notes that say “Didn’t the kids get my gifts? I was so worried because I didn’t hear anything from them.”
@pomme de terre Thank you notes are not actually required for shower gifts, per Emily Post: “With the exception of shower gifts that are opened in front of the donor when verbal thanks that are all that is required, all wedding-related gifts must be acknowledged with a written thank-you.”
Regarding Ignorance, I think in general she sounds a little uptight and judge-y, but I work at a boarding school where students are given a lot of freedom and we have really serious rules (for right or wrong) regarding “condoning.” Basically, if a student is near drugs/alcohol/violence and is aware of them but does not take part, that student is in equal trouble. It’s basically there to prevent the “but I didn’t take a hit” defense, which most of the time is taken by people who did inhale, but I think Ignorance is good to be careful, because she won’t want to be the exception to that “most of the time.”
And, realize that soon you’ll go to college where you can start fresh and will probably find lots of other highly motivated nonpotheads and that it will be awesome.
I send out packages to all of my friends and family who have babies and have been doing so since I was 18. It’s been a lot of packages over the years, but I love doing it, especially for the younger kids in bigger families. In my experience, I only get thank you notes about half the time. My sister was appalled when I shared this. But we didn’t grow up in a de facto thank-you-note household, so I chalk part of it up to our family and our particular geographic subculture, and the rest I chalk up to the sleep-deprivation of new parents. Although I would love to make sure that the package really did get to, say, the cousin who has moved six times in the last two years. My nephews now do thank you cards, which I adore.
@pomme: I think the nuance is more about a party thrown in your honor. If it’s a birthday party, shower, or wedding type event that is exclusively for you and there are gifts involved, that there is that expectation to send a thank you note. You are essentially thanking them for their presence at the party as well as for the gift. However, if it is a gift at a holiday where other people are getting gifts and you thank them after the opening and move onto the next person opening their gift, it’s different. Or, at least, that was more how the line was drawn in my family.
Miranda, I’m in the same type of position – seven nieces and nephews (on the other side of the world, in my case) and I seldom get so much as a thank you email for the birthday presents I send, let alone a letter! My sisters are in NZ and life is pretty casual there, but I do think it’s good manners. My way of tackling it has been to take a bit of a ‘just checking up’ approach, which is made easier for me because international postage is involved – if I don’t hear anything I tend to drop the relevant sister an email to say ‘haven’t heard anything from you guys for a while – did little Jimmy’s present arrive safely?’.
I’ve also used the power of the Grandparent on one occasion, when we’d flown my 14 year old niece over to the UK to visit us for three weeks, all expenses paid, and then got … nothing back by way of a thank you. That time, I mentioned it to my mother a few months later and said that I thought it was seriously out of order, and words were obviously exchanged back home, as I got an email shortly afterwards from my niece. My sister was all ‘I thought she’d done it’, and I was thinking ‘yeah, but you should have checked’, but it’s not worth too much of a drama. At the end of the day, it’s bad manners to point out the bad manners of others (annoying those it might be!)
Oh – and I try to do the whole leading by example thing, by making sure that I get my thank you cards in the mail pronto after Christmas/my birthday. No impact on the short set, of course, but my sisters might get the message one day…
As a lawyer, I must chip in and agree you are WAY off base on the pot in the car issue. Should they be pulled over, everybody gets busted.
@Brian: Fair enough. I was arrested for possession, and while it was a hassle, and I would not characterize it as helpful to my relationship with my mother, 1) I was already in college at the time, 2) I wasn’t going to be applying for any job that would probably care about misdemeanor possession, 3) I consider it a victimless crime (I was not near kids or a school and was not driving or even in a car), and 4) it’s so long ago now that I can see in hindsight how meaningless it was to my future. But that’s me. Also me: sometimes, hanging out with certain friends in high school, the presence of ill-gotten booze or mj was kind of the cost of doing business. Not everyone feels that way.
One thing to keep in mind, though, too, is that if you don’t spend time with illegal substances, or with people who use them, you don’t have as accurate an idea of “normal” vis-a-vis those substances — how likely it is to attract notice, how drunk is call-the-paramedics too-drunk, and so on. I am by no means recommending that Ig. familiarize herself with those things, or force herself to pretend she’s comfortable with them. But if you have no context for pot in the glove box, it may seem like a different deal from what it actually is. If she’s not comfortable, again, she’s not, and it’s illegal, so there’s no reason she “should” be. She also has no perspective on it, which isn’t required either — it’s why she wrote to an advice column — but I’ve been arrested for it and I’m 20 years out of high school, so I do have perspective, namely: she’s overreacting a little bit. Other perspectives aren’t wrong.
@Susan: Fine, but Ig. needs to gauge the likelihood of getting pulled over. I’m not trying to be flip, but if they drive stoned (or are just shitty drivers), she probably shouldn’t ride with them anyway. But if we’re talking about the usual odds of getting pulled over for speeding?
These are odds the likes of which everyone has to weigh all the time. If she absolutely can’t tolerate ANY chance of getting busted by association, then she can’t, but it’s not like she’s crossing the Canadian border (probably). They’re just kids, driving around. In my town, there was almost nothing else to do, and I could ride around sometimes with kids who may have had some dope on them, or I could stay home. So I took my chances and hoped they wouldn’t run any stop signs.
Everyone’s risk tolerance is different, but you can’t live your life along an axis of “trying not to get arrested.”
A helpful Thank You Note tip from me:
Lately, instead of buying stationary and envelopes, I’ve been sending Thank You postcards. Emily Post might not approve, but it’s easy, and I get it done, and I can have some fun with it.
I just went down to Staples and bought a big package of Hammermill card stock (250 sheets of 8.5″ x 11″ for about $12) and also save on postage that way too.
I either find a cute graphic I like, or take a picture and print it on the front. I get 4 postcards out of each sheet of card stock, and it’s personal and something I actually want to send people.
For my mom’s 50th birthday, we had a suprise party last weekend. Right now, I am in the process of sending out Thank Yous to the people who came. For the front of the postcards, I used a group picture we took during the party. Now everyone can have a copy of the picture, even if they don’t have internet access (so couldn’t see it on Flickr) or dont’t have a printer at home.
Anyway, this doesn’t help the Vine queston-asker, but it might help someone else who is looking for a cheap and easy (but totally fun and still personal) way to do Thank Yous.
I guess I am just a freak when it comes to thank you notes. But I hated writing them so much as a child I would never want to inflict such a burden on another child. They are so formulaic as to be completely worthless. “Dear Relation X, I hope you are well, we are well too. Thank you for the nice [insert name of gift]. I liked it a lot. Love from Rebel” I can’t understand why anyone would want such a note.
To this day I thank relations in person and I phone them up and thank them if they mailed the gift and very very occasionally when someone has gone above and beyond for me I send a thank you note for the thoughtfulness and effort. But I have a heap of cousins and nephews and nieces and I send gifts without expecting or wishing for a note back. I would hate to receive one of those form letters.
Something the etiquette books don’t seem to cover is that isn’t the point of giving to give whole-heartedly, not in the hope of what you may receive? If Miranda wants to know the gifts were the right thing, well-chosen enough to be loved and enjoyed, can’t the parents tell her that? Or can’t she phone the kids up and wish them happy birthday or Christmas or whatever, which would create a chance for them to respond spontaneously with thanks? I don’t get why the piece of paper is so important…
I was very much like Ig. as a student in my (regular) high school and, although it was rare in my circle, did run into similar situations. I’d probably feel/’overreact’ the same way about the pot in the glove box.
The best way I found to maintain respect/good relations was humor. If I’d been in the car situation, I’d probably pass on riding with them again, explaining the transitive property of possession busts and making a crack about not necessarily having to smoke it to have it make you paranoid (or joking about never being able to pass the vetting for a cabinet position with a bust on my record).
I knew it worked when I overheard one friend tell another guest at a party, laughing, “No sparking up until H leaves, man. She’s our token – not tokin’ – goody two shoes.”
@ bossyboots — I also had an incident that convinced me of the importance of thank-you notes after years of being pestered by my mom to write them; unfortunately, mine involved a situation where I didn’t get one. (Probably karmic payback for all the ones I let slide.)
A friend from college asked to crash with me the night before her graduate school interview, and she was kind of a pain as a houseguest — she didn’t call to let me know she’d taken a later train (I sat at the train station for an hour, completely confused and worried), when she arrived she had a list of several essential errands she needed me to drive her to, and in return, I got nothing more than a “uh, thanks for letting me stay, bye” as I dropped her off for the interview. I never heard from her again. I ended up feeling annoyed and used, and I realized that a thank-you call or e-mail would have gone a long way towards making me feel appreciated. Now I’m much more conscientious about writing my own thank-yous.
@attica – The gift of an etiquette book may not work. I once did exactly that. I sent an Emily Post anonymously as an extra wedding present (in addition to the official present), bookmark in the page where it talked about the writing of thank you cards being necessary. (This was after I had express posted a present for a bridal shower, for which I had received neither notification that it had arrived nor thank you note from the recipients.) I was there when the etiquette gift was opened. The bookmark was noticed, the significance of the bookmark’s placement was understood. It hasn’t changed their behaviour in any way: in the many years since, I have yet to receive any thank you notes from those particular people.
I was taught that you ALWAYS write a thank you note, but have grudgingly come to accept that almost nobody writes them these days. It stinks, especially when you’re not sure if your present has arrived safely. I’ve started to use package tracking when I really need to know that the present has arrived.
I get your perspective on Iggy’s situation, but as the mom of a young teen I’d have to say that I think that you got this one wrong. Things have changed a lot in terms of consequences for possession. The risks are a lot higher than they were 25 years ago when I was in high school. Zero tolerance policies are rampant and it doesn’t have to be the police who find her and illegal substances in the same place to totally fuck over her future. I don’t like it, I think it’s wrong to demonize alcohol and minor drug use the way the DARE programs and their ilk do, but it’s a fact. A couple of local kids here got kicked off sports teams for having a margarita with their parents while on vacation in Mexico, where they were legal.
@ferretrick: I use stationery for post-interview thank-yous, but I have “formal” and “informal” stationery, so I use the formal stuff then. It’s just pale green with gold trim; I have stuff with my name on it (I never could find stuff with my name on it as a kid, so whenever anyone does find it, they send it to me) that I wouldn’t use for interviews.
Thank you notes–for the first time in my life since my mother sat me down at the kitchen table and wouldn’t let me get up again until a bajillion copies of “Dear Gramma, I liked the mittens” were churned out, I didn’t write them this year. I bought them–cute little penguins saying “The gift is great–and so are YOU!” So why not send them?
I’m sick and tired of being the only one in my family (in-law or otherwise) who does, that’s why. I haven’t recieved a thank you note of any kind from a family member for the last ten years that I can remember. Not from my mother, my dad, my sister, my in laws, nobody. I am tired of forcing my husband to write them–when, as he rightly points out, his family doesn’t “do” thank you notes, and I’m tired of writing letters filled with news and chat and thanks to my various relations and getting nothing for the gifts/cards I send to them.
Sorry, that came out a little bitterer than I intended. Here’s my recommendation, Thankless–send the kids thank you notes. Obviously they’re too young to actually be picking out/mailing you gifts, but the next time you get something signed “The Thankless Family”, write thank you notes to the kids specifically. Getting actual letters in the mail will thrill them and there’s nothing like experiencing gratitude expressed to inspire the good habit.
On the thank you notes…
Your criticism really isn’t of the kid’s manners, it’s of the parents’ method of raising their kids. If you really think it’s that important, go ahead and critique your siblings’ parenting skills. I don’t know you or your siblings, but as a dad I’ve a pretty good idea what the reaction will be, whether or not it’s expressed.
I gotta side with Sars on the Iggy issue.
We can’t spend our lives fearful of being stained by association, or we’d never make friends at all. Life’s gonna splash some crap on your cute shoes no matter how many piles of poo you avoid, so you might as well just dance in the street! And unless we develop an inner meter that goes from “almost okay” to “OMG! CALL FOR HELP!!!” how will we determine a proper course of action?
(And to me, it’s not an evil demon weed, it’s a very effective medication that saves me from using a lot of addictive painkillers & muscle relaxers. I’m off those completely now and life is a lot better -and less woozy & sleepy & barfy. YAY AMENDMENT 20!)
Wait, what? Why in the world can’t you live your life along an axis of “trying not to get arriested?” If anything, I think that would be a pretty appropriate way to go about life! Especially in high school and college where a “minor” pot posession arrest can have much larger consequences.
@Iggy and Sarah: I wouldn’t say Iggy’s overreacting, because, as Sarah referred to, it really depends on the situation; it’s about weighing the risks, and what you’re comfortable with. Personally, notwithstanding any judgment about people who are in possession, I’m risk averse and would not want to hang out with them anywhere in public, because while the potential of getting caught are still, to me, moderate (e.g. the usual odds of getting pulled over for speeding), and the potential consequences are great. BUT that doesn’t mean, if you really think these people care about you as friends do and vice versa (and there aren’t other possibly large consequences), that you couldn’t hang out with them at your house or theirs, where the chances of getting caught are much less.
I think it’s cool, Iggy, that you’re at least trying to be open with these old acquaintances, instead of just outright dismissing them. At the same time, if even after being open with them, you find that you just don’t naturally gel (beyond your being uncomfortable around drugs), don’t try to “force” a relationship with them just because you want acknowledgement/have self-image and confidence issues.
ITA with Alison, and I think the major difference here is that Iggy is a minor in high school. On the other side of college/employment (in certain sectors), getting busted for possession won’t have too much of an impact. In high school, the way schools and colleges and cops are ready to land on any drug use with both feet? It can totally fuck up your life. People are hysterical over drugs these days, you know, For the Children, so I think the calculation is a bit different from Iggy’s perspective–not to mention the fact that teen drivers are relatively more likely to be pulled over (for speeding, if nothing else).
I’m not saying, Iggy, that you should run screaming from these situations. How you react to this risk is up for debate, but I don’t think your position is unreasonable, at all.
“Why in the world can’t you live your life along an axis of ‘trying not to get arriested?’ If anything, I think that would be a pretty appropriate way to go about life!”
If the defining criterion by which you conduct yourself is “but I might get in trouble,” no, I don’t think it’s appropriate. Obviously I’m not advocating courting arrests, or self-destructive behavior. There’s just more to people who smoke/carry pot than that simple fact, and if you avoid those people, you are also avoiding everything else they may have to offer. Adopting a bear-attack posture to life is pretty limiting, and the plus side of doing some things you’re not entirely comfortable with is that you learn how to handle those situations when they come along — which, no matter how carefully you protect yourself from risk, they always always do.
Let me give you a more specific example. I have a friend from home who was much more socially integrated than I was — had tons of friends, got her license way before I did, had a more elastic curfew, went to a lot of parties and was exposed to a fair amount of underage drinking and drug use. She wasn’t a huge partier herself usage-wise, although she liked a beer and the occasional toke, but she was around it; she was accustomed to it. One night, at a party I wasn’t at, an acquaintance of hers washed a tab of E down with some rum and Coke, and it went pear-shaped — clammy, shallow breathing, the whole bit. And my friend assessed the situation, informed everyone at the party that they’d need to clear out — on foot — and called 911.
I’ve always admired that, because I had far less experience in those situations, so I wouldn’t have known that it was a full-stop medical crisis, which it was — but also because I was much more of an apple-polishing good girl, much more afraid of getting in trouble, and I wouldn’t have acted decisively. Not every 16-year-old is going to look at a possible OD/case of alcohol poisoning and say to herself, “I’m going to get grounded for 20 years, but that’s not that important right now.” But my 16-year-old self wouldn’t have known what she was looking at in the first place, most likely.
Please understand that I am absolutely NOT advocating that Ig. or anyone else hang out at keg parties, or next to the bong, for the sake of gaining experiential knowledge. I’m still an apple-polisher at heart myself. I’m also not a parent, not a lawyer, etc. etc. disclaimer fishcakes. But it’s about context. What you learn from spending time with people who are a little more risky in their behaviors than you are is worthwhile, even if you don’t engage in or approve of those behaviors yourself. And one of the things you learn is that it’s actually pretty hard to get busted if you use even a modicum of common sense, which I, true to my nature, did not when I got arrested.
In other news, I am available to babysit! (Heh.)
@Miranda,
I have to disagree with Sars advice. I too write thank-you notes for just about everything. And, congrats notes. And, just thinking of you notes. I am from the south and that was just how I was raised. But, I am pretty sure I was the last generation to be taught to do this. Things change, societal rules change. And, expecting a thank-you note is only going to make you fussy. And, although you don’t say as much, I am betting a bit resentful. So, here is another think my dear southern mama taught me: never give anyone anything (even a loan) with the expectation of getting anything in return…..it is a “gift” after all.
I am sure they love and appreciate your gifts. Thanks-you notes are just antiquated for most of the world. And kinda trite if forced by your auntie or parent.
Sars would totally be this babysitter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL-EXjOQYGE&feature=related
@Sars- If I didn’t live more than halfway across the country, I’d take you up on it. I do see your point, and I really don’t shelter my kids but to me the risk side of the risk/benefit equation is now so huge that I don’t think that I could condone a lot of my own behavior in high school in this climate. Kids are being encouraged to turn in other kids for drinking/using and being drummed out of activities and given suspensions for violating a pledge they sign in third grade. I personally believe that the drinking age should be 18 and then colleges could go back to what my college did back in the day, teach us how to drink without killing ourselves.
I agree with Sars re: Iggy. Should Iggy speak up when one of her friends tokes up around her, or if the sight of their drugs makes her uncomfortable? Sure. But does the fact that these people enjoy pot every now and then automatically make them bad dangerous people that shouldn’t be associated with? No, especially since Iggy herself describes them as people who are still able to get good grades, play varsity sports, etc, so one gets the feeling that these are high school students who light up occasionally, but aren’t heavy drug users. I mean, it’s not like Iggy feels uncomfortable hanging out in their crack den.
I too got a holier than thou attitude from the letter. Maybe it’s less Iggy’s perfect grades and attendance at Stanford math camp that keep students at her school at a distance, but rather her judgemental attitude and superior stance towards those that smoke pot, even casual users. I had a friend who went to a liberal arts high school and she didn’t drink or do drugs, but had friends who did. She just asked they didn’t use around her, declined their offers, and everyone was fine with it. She was the “straight-edge” friend. She also accepted that even though these people may do things she wasn’t comfortable with herself, they were people worth knowing and being friends with.
Drinking before 21 is illegal. So is speeding. So is smoking pot. I knew plenty of people who did (and still do) all these things, and who are good people. I agree absolutely that if you shield yourself from people who do anything illegal, you miss out on quite a lot. As long as Iggy’s friends aren’t heavy drug users, pressuring Iggy to use, or making her feel bad about being straight-edge, then I don’t really see the problem.
Yeah, I didn’t mean to get all Debbie Downer with my, “Actually, you CAN get charged with possession,” riff. I just wanted to point out that the consequences are maybe slightly more dire than you originally pointed out. I know it’s a worst-case scenario that I was painting, but I’ve also seen lives get pretty fucked-up because of stuff like that more often than I’d like in my line of work, so I had to at least bring it up. Kind of like how the plastic surgeon needs to warn a patient that they can die on the table for what seems to be a routine procedure, no matter how slight the risk. (And that is offically the weirdest analogy I’ve ever come up with, but you know what I mean.)
I do empathize with Iggy’s not-wanting-to-get-in-trouble position. I was exactly the same way at her age. I finally came out of it when I was 17, mainly because I finally cracked down and (ahem) tried something when I was in a position/location where I *knew* there was no chance of me getting in trouble. That was my biggest fear, really: ruining my perfect grades and my parents’ goodie-two-shoes image of me by getting caught. An arrest and a misdemeanor might not be such a big deal to an adult, but a minor? Yeah, I know where the fear is coming from. I think, advice or no, that she’ll loosen up in college anyway. I certainly did.
Iggy, it comes down to this: if you’re hanging out with said pot smokers either at your place or theirs, you’re fine. No, really. You’re FINE. If you know they’re carrying pot, I probably wouldn’t ride in a car with them.
Question for those whose parents were hardcore about thank-you notes: Was anyone else prohibited from starting a note with “I”? I had to write a draft of my notes and my mom would edit them before I could write a hard copy (yes, I believe I take the prize); and any lines like “I love the sweater you gave me” would be changed to “The sweater you gave me is great.” Which sort of turned it into damning with faint praise, but what can you do.
As far as sending notes when you received the gift in person: send one anyway. A few years back we went to two weddings about a month apart, for two of my husband’s friends. In each case, I bought and wrapped the presents; we brought them to the rehearsal dinners (I hate bringing presents to weddings), and my husband was the one who actually handed over the gift (I wasn’t in the room for some reason). We didn’t receive notes in either case. I don’t know if they thought thanking him was sufficient; but it wasn’t, because he did jack to purchase or wrap the present, and the right person didn’t get thanked. I still give these couples (and now, their children) presents, but I will always remember that they didn’t send a note.
Just tossing in another tidbit on the whole Ig situation- I was trying for military scholarships in high school and therefore steered clear of the underage drinking parties (no pot in my podunk town) because with tons of folks just as good as me trying for those, any kind of minor arrest would put me out of the running. And then I got one of those scholarships and never went near pot in college. Yes, the whole four years. And it wasn’t just me- the rest of us who could be subjected to screenings at any time stayed away, too. The closest I came to it was at a party one of my buddies was throwing- his roommate had been lighting up before we all got there and my buddy had him go up to his room with it, which he was happy to do. Anyway, just another opinion from someone else who had to be careful in high school and college.
Oh, and I had tons of friends- they just knew not to bother inviting me to those parties once I explained the dealio to them in an extremely non-judgmental way. It also kept me from not getting kicked off the softball team the way a few of my friends did when caught drinking underage. Just saying.
‘Adopting a bear-attack posture to life is pretty limiting’
This is very true, though. I live where we *have* real, non-analogy bear attacks, but I still go hiking. I just carry bear spray- lol!
To push the thank-you note question further: I have hand-knitted baby sweaters for three of my friends (first babies each time) and given them in person before the baby was born. I honestly don’t remember whether I got thank you notes from them, but I’m kind of disappointed I didn’t get a picture of the kid wearing my craft.
New parents take a whizillion pictures of their kids–statistics say that the baby is wearing my sweater in at least one picture. Is forwarding me one pic too much to ask?
Or should I just interpret it that my knitting is clearly so terrible that no under-one-year-old would be caught dead in a sweater made by my hands?
secretrebel, you’ve asked this question before and been answered pretty clearly and thoroughly. The answer is here in these comments, too. It’s not that there IS no value in thank you notes (clearly, to many people, there is). It’s that you just don’t want to write them, and don’t care what anybody else thinks (or *feels*) about that. So why ask again?
For the record, not that many thank-you notes do actually reduce to the lowest-terms format you dismiss them ALL as conforming to above. As has been made quite clear, again, here in these comments, there are a lot of expressions of gratitude that really do carry much meaning with them.
If you feel that gratitude is somehow a POOR emotion to release into the world, then stick with the refusal to consider others’ needs and feelings, and quit asking why that doesn’t go over well.
@ Nicole: “I too got a holier than thou attitude from the letter.”
I had another read on Iggy’s attitude — I could have written a very similar letter at age 17 (less about pot, more about vodka, but anyway), and I suspect that her attitude is less “holier than thou” than it is a bit defensive. When everyone around you is making different choices than you are, and you’re not 100% comfortable in your own skin, you tend to feel like you have to explain why you don’t make those choices even when no one is asking. I’m almost certain that I came off as pretty judgmental and snotty when discussing drinking as a high schooler, but it wasn’t that I thought I was better than the kids who did drink, I just wasn’t confident enough to say “I don’t drink” and leave it at that. I thought I owed people an explanation, when not only didn’t I owe them one, they didn’t care about having one anyway. I eventually figured this out in college, but it took a bit of confidence-building on my part.
@Liesl – though I totally agree that it would be cool for the parents to send you a pic of their baby in the sweater you knitted, you might think about knitting something other than clothes for babies. Have you ever been around a baby? They grow like little weeds. They will outgrow a sweater sooo fast. Add in their moms’ likely reluctance to let something you put so much time into making become victim to a fountain of carrot vomit and the inevitable liquishit, and it’s possible that some sweaters never end up getting worn. I tend to stick with knitting stroller blankets out of something that’s very machine washable.
To Ig: Even for a job that might seem to require a very clean history, a single possession arrest at 17 is not disqualifying, except possibly for a position at DEA. I hold a security clearance, and while I’ve never been arrested, I freely admitted to smoking pot a couple of times in college and to having started drinking before 21 and it was no issue. And I know at least one coworker who was arrested for possession of a small amount of pot in college.
You have to decide if the risk is worth it to you, of course, and no one but you can decide that, but if I liked hanging around with them, it would be a risk I would take.
@ MCB says: “When everyone around you is making different choices than you are, and you’re not 100% comfortable in your own skin, you tend to feel like you have to explain why you don’t make those choices even when no one is asking.”
I was like that too, about drinking and sex when I was younger. It’s fun being a nerd, isn’t it?
Adding another perspective to the Great Pot Debate– I was a serious student in high school and college, but also a recreational pot smoker at the time. Fast forward a decade, and I now work for the government and have a high security clearance (and yes, I disclosed all of my former marijuana use for my background investigation). So while it was probably not the smartest decision I ever made, it hasn’t adversely affected my career, even when I was required to disclose it. On the other hand, trying to imagine my more experimental years without some of the risks I took is just depressing. Dipping my toe into rule-breaking in high school and college helped me break out of the self-righteous myopic stances on “X is right and Y is wrong” that I’d previously held. I started to see the world in shades of gray, and I think I’m a more well-rounded, thoughtful person for it.
Sars, I used to read Tara’s website and think that when she wrote about her sister, “Toque” rhymed with toke, and that it was Canadian for pothead. Only found out what a toque really is a few months ago…
Well, if nothing else, I think Ig can take from this discussion that there’s no absolute right or wrong way to deal with this situation. I guess if I were in that situation, I’d probably just say “Well how about if I drive instead?” the next time they want to go somewhere. And look forward to college–I found it very easy to find friends there that just did not drink/smoke pot/etc. Just not their thing. It was a total non-issue. And it sounds like you have some friends like that already. Maybe hang around the pot-smoking friends mostly during school, where they won’t be up to anything sketchy, and spend time with your other friends in your free time. That’s what this former straight-A-goody-two-shoes would do, anyways.
Re: thank-you notes from kids
I agree with the poster who says it is really a critique of the parents method of raising their kids. I have 3 children ages 7,5 &2 who receive gifts from far-away aunts & grandparents and they must write thank-you notes or return the gift. To say the parents are too busy to have the child sit down and write a note or draw a picture (15 minutes max) is ridiculous since you were not too busy to shop for, wrap and send the gift! I also think it is a great way of staying in touch with family that we don’t see often (my husband is in the military). Although my kids sometimes complain, awhile ago, my 7 yr old sat down on her own (no gift received, no Mommy prompting) to write a note to my sister (who is single, no kids) saying “How are things in Denver? I love you.” My sister still has it on her fridge. The only exception I make is Christmas gifts opened in front of the giver, thanked on the spot and promptly played with or put on. I believe you are in the right here, but have no idea how to get your siblings to do the right thing.
Re: the tattoo removal – I had an extremely ill-advised tattoo on my shoulder removed with a Ruby laser back in the day, and it was unbelievably effective, and not too expensive at all. Two treatments and over the course of about six weeks it completely faded away with no scarring at all. But the Ruby was the only one that I knew — or still know — of that really works. But it is also really worth it.
As to Ig: Why is it relevant that she’s National Merit, or that she gets straight As?
I think this question just doesn’t need to be this loaded. If you have friends who smoke pot, you’ll see pot from time to time. There’s no magic solution. Make a decision; hope your friends understand. Doesn’t have to be all or nothing; you can decide no to the car but yes to private homes, or whatever you want. Or no to everything. Or fuck it. The risks exist; as others have said, they’re probably low-likelihood high-impact. Only Ig can make that decision.
But. In the meantime, I have a suggestion for Ig. Stop talking about your grades except when they are relevant, which they totally are not to this question. Ditto National Merit. Those things are not germane, believe it or not, to a discussion of why you don’t get along with people. Plenty of people with good grades and Merit Scholarships are popular. Don’t assume people don’t like you; don’t assume you won’t like them. You’re assuming both, at the moment, and until those things get resolved, fixing your pot-in-the-car problem isn’t going to fix your social problem.