The Vine: May 28, 2008
Dear Sars,
After long pining for it, I received Garner’s Modern American Usage for my birthday. In the entry on pronunciation, he claims that “almond” should be pronounced without the L. What is he smoking?
Confusedly,
Language Nerd Birthday Girl
Dear Lang,
Webster’s backs him up; the first pronunciation listed is “ah-mund.” I’ve always thought of “ah-mund” versus “all-mund” as regional variations, but apparently “ah-mund” is preferred. “All-mund” is listed, though, so you can use it with impunity.
The original derivation is evidently from the Latin amygdala, so Garner has a basis for claiming that the ideal pronunciation should proceed from that root — but the more recent source is from the French almande, which includes the L.
Your call. I would classify this as Garner’s opinion, not black-letter usage law.
Dear Sars,
“reduce the impact of global warming”
OR
“reduce the impacts of global warming”
I vote the first, coworker votes the second. And by vote, I mean we keep correcting it our way in the same document over and over again as we do edits. I don’t have a solid reason for voting the first, mostly I find the second reads as a typo to me.
Help?
I’ll bow to your wisdom even if you disagree with me, swears,
K
Dear K,
I abstain. I don’t think either is incorrect, but it depends on what the phrase is trying to do in context. Does the surrounding text address the overall impact of global warming? Or does it aim to give the sense that global warming has multiple impacts?
The general/overall usage, in the singular, is the one we probably see more frequently, so in the absence of other information, I guess I would recommend defaulting to that — but if the text addresses or discusses the various effects of global warming, the plural is appropriate too.
Hi Sars —
Yet another grammar question…”who” vs. “whom.” I’ve Googled it, but all the examples have been far too simplistic to be of any help. (I’m writing something for a scientific journal, and simplicity is discouraged — heh.)
“Previous research shows that African Americans, the majority of [who/whom/which] smoke menthol cigarettes, tend to start smoking later in life and smoke fewer cigarettes per day…”
I think whenever I’ve heard “the majority of x” used, it’s been “whom.” One of my co-authors wants to use which, which I think is wrong. Can you give us a verdict?
Jen
Dear Jen,
“Whom.” It’s the object of a preposition — “of,” in this case — so you need the objective case.
“Which” is not correct unless the object in question is…an object, a thing. For people, it’s “who” or “whom.” For things and stuff, it’s “which.” So, “…and smoke fewer cigarettes, the majority of which are menthols, per day” is okay, but if the object in question is African-Americans (and I think that needs a hyphen, by the way), the pronoun needs to imply that.
Tags: grammar
A lot of California almond growers call them “ammands.” Why? “Because they get the ‘ell shaken out of them.”
When you serve a dish garnished with almonds, it is called ‘amandine’; calling it ‘almondine’ is an error I’ve noticed of waitstaff everywhere. I therefore assumed that the French word for the nut itself would be absent the ‘l’. Huh. Learning something new every day!
Uh…. the French for almond IS “amande”. It’s been a long time since the mandatory Canadian Franglais classes, but I’m pretty sure that’s the case.
Ugh. Something inside of me just HATES it when someone says “ahhhh-mahnd,” which just sounds so affected and pretentious. Haaaaate. I don’t care if Garner thinks it’s the correct way to pronounce “almond,” I’ll stick with my “all-mond” pronunciation thankyouverymuch. :-)
Sorry, my mistake: it’s an Anglo-French root, “alemande.” Middle English root is “almande.”
The l in some words is dropped in upper-middle to upper-class (English) English pronunciation – almonds are ah-munds, salmon is sammon, Ralph is Rafe, golf is goff and so on – saying allmunds is nearly as strong a class signifier as dropping your aitches (or even aspirating aitch – i.e. haitch) in England. You’d never extend the second syllable though – faux French pronunciation as about as declasse as you can get.
I have to admit. I had never ever heard of “almond” being pronounced all-mond. I grew up in California and went to the midwest for college, and I know no one who pronounces it all-mond. Everyone I know pronounces it “ah-mond”
Is it an East Coast thing?
I live in New York and I’ve heard probably 95% of people throughout my life pronounce the word “ah-mond”. So no, I don’t think it’s an East Coast thing.
It’s actually kind of funny that K said she finds it pretentious when people say “ah-mond” because I was just about to post that I feel that way about people who say “al-mond”, heh.
Hee, it’s funny/interesting that there are people who’ve never heard almond pronounced as “all-mond” — I, for my part, have never honestly heard anyone pronounce it “ah-mond.” :)
I live on the West Coast, so maybe it is a semi-geographical thing?
Texas chiming in – I’ve always heard it pronounced all-mond. And I pay particular attention to this sort of thing, because it is very similar in spelling to part of my name. Trust me, when people like to sing the Almond Joy jingle to you, you get used to hearing the word pronounced.
And because it’s now stuck in my head … http://tinyurl.com/4k9xup
I grew up in California, too, and we always used both “all-mund” and “a(as in “jam”)-mun”– all-munds on the tree, a-muns on the ground.
Now that I live in Washington State I’ve had to stop using ‘a-mun’ because no one knows what it means.
@Abigail– do you really know people who pronounce the L in salmon? I’m pretty sure that’s wrong across the board.
Also count me in the ‘never heard “ah-mond”‘ camp–and I’m from Arizona and now Massachusetts.
I’m a Canadian, and both in the Prairies (where I grew up) and on the West Coast I’ve only ever heard “ah-mond”and “sammon” (instead of sal-mon). However, we pronounce “golf” with the “l”. I’ve only ever heard Americans say “all-mond”.
PA/GA/SC/FL/DC/MD/NJ here. And I’ve never once heard (or, at least, noticed) anyone say “ah-mond.” I choose to believe that Garner is funning us.
Ireland here. Only ever heard “ah-mond” (and “sammon”). Though I suppose there’s a -hint- of an ell lurking at the roof of my mouth — the tongue just doesn’t quite make contact.
Hmm. I’m in Southern Ontario, and I’ve only ever heard it pronounced “all-mond”. What is this silent L business?
NYer here, never, ever heard “ah-mond.” Would probably need to do a double take to figure out what the person was talking about.
Also, heh, Sars, my first thought about the phrase in #3 was also “Hey, African-Americans should be hyphenated!” Maybe I should look into proofreading…
I’m a northwest girl, having lived in Oregon my entire life and now in Washington state (except for 10 weeks in Washington, D.C., last summer) and I’ve NEVER heard almond pronounced without the l. I watch a lot of Food Network and Top Chef.
I’ve also never heard “salmon” pronounced with the l, except for that episode of American Idol where Kellie Pickler was all astounded by how she was eating “sal-mon” for the first time.
I’ve never heard – or, at any rate, noticed – anyone pronounce the “L”. It’s always been something like “ommins”.
I’m thinking I don’t really say “ah-mund” but I don’t really say “all-mund,” either. Maybe because I say “all” more like “awl” (East coast), and it’s not an “awl-mund.”
What about “ahl-mund,” with just a tiny bit of “l” at the end of the “ah?”
(Raised in CA and VA with NY parents)
I never knew there was such a distinction. I live in South Western Ontario and I’ve never heard anyone pronounce the L in almond in my life. and here I thought soda v. pop was the big language schism of our time.
Military dependent here – Lived in about half our states, and I’m sure there’s not a single state from which I’ve never met anybody. I can’t say that almonds came up in every conversation (I don’t like them) but I’ve always heard it as “ahh-mons.” There is, frequently, a bare hint of an L, but it’s not articulated, and you have to be listening for it.
My mother was mortified at work one day when she said she was making a pecan pie – she pronounced it the way her family (Maryland and up and down the Eastern shore) always has: PEE-can. After recovering from the embarrassment, the first thing she did was to call me and say, “It’s not PEE-can, it’s p’CAAAHN.” She was worried I’d say “pecan” to someone before she had a chance to tell me.
We’re weirdos that way.
Never heard anyone in New Zealand, the UK or Australia call it anything other than an ah-mond (well, if I could type phonetics, I would use a cross between an “uh” and “i” sound in the mond bit – isn’t that a schwar or something?). And my Canadian husband says the same. Indeed, I think my South Africa friends also shun the “l.”
Can’t speak for all English-speaking nations, but I suspect al-mond is a predominantly USA variant.
I’m from New Zealand / Australia and I’ve never heard ‘al-mond’. It’s all ah-mond, all the time. I’m now sitting here saying ‘golf golf golf’ to myself and I think I’m pronouncing the ‘L’… although ‘milk’ as ‘miwk’ is extremely common.
I’m from Georgia and live in Australia and I recently got dinged by an Australian friend for saying all-mond. I figured it was just a US/AUS English pronunciation difference (and Australians drop about a third of their letters anyway), but apparently it’s more than that.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard an American say ah-mond, and that’s in Atlanta, Chicago, and DC.
Ah-mond is prety standard here in the UK (or Scotland and England at least). I’ve never heard anyone here pronounce it al-mond or all-mond.
Hmm, that’s supposed to be ‘pretty’, with two t’s. A typo, not a British English variant, that one :o)
I should also say that I can’t speak for all regional differences in the above mentioned nations, and also that in my home country of New Zealand, you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who overarticulates a consonant (or fully pronounces a vowel sound) when they don’t have to!
I’m living in Scotland at the moment and had one of those great communication muddles the other day. This guy’s pronunciation of cat was exactly the same as I would say car (some Scottish accents are very relaxed about final consonants) and suffice to say the conversation took a momentarily confused turn. Especially as he was talking about my gas boiler.
Australian chiming in here – we pronounce it ah-mond. I have never heard anyone (except US citizens) pronounce the “l”. Which means it’s probably a British thing. That, and we know that you Yanks are all a bit weird :)
Ohio here, always heard “all-mond”… Except my husband (who grew up here too), who insists on saying “el-mund”.
NJ/PA here, and a vote for “ah-mond.” The “L” has definitely gone Ls-where.
@ allison – I work on the weekends as a cooking demonstrator, and a few months ago I was working a salmon dish. This obnoxious little girl came up and asked me what I was cooking, so I told her, “Sammon,” without pronouncing the l, because that’s just the way I’ve always said it. She said, “Sammon? What’s that?”
“It’s a type of fish.”
She then looked at the sign for the recipe, which was right in front of her. “Oh, you mean SAL-mon.”
“Sure, you can say it like that. I just don’t pronounce the l.”
“Well, you should, because that’s the way you’re suppose to say it.”
I live in Georgia, so I think it’s just a regional thing. The people with the really thick accents tend to say the l. I’ll have to listen out for almond pronunciations, because I never noticed those before.
I’ll chime in at least for the PA/DC/MD/VA crowd and say that yes, *i’ve* heard almond it both ways in all of those places.
OK, so I’ve been thinking hard about this… I assumed that I pronounced it “all-munds” because thinking about hearing “Ah-mund” was weird. But apparently, I use a sort of split-the-difference and saw “awwmunds.” So not really pronouncing that L, but not quite forgetting it alltogether either. And I’m in Indiana and htat’s usually what you hear around here.
NYC born and raised here. Always heard “ah-mund”, never heard “all-mund”.
But I find it interesting that you are either in one camp or the other. Very few (any?) of the commenters above have said they hear both interchangeably. (Is that a word?)
MD/NJ here, and after some testing at home (yes, I did have the BF listen to me say “almond” three dozen times in various contexts. Just before he declared me completely insane), and apparently my pronounciation is “ah-mund” half the time, even though in my head, I am pronouncing the “L” distinctly.
And for my own pretensions: “AL-mund” makes me cringe.
Now, how about pecan?
pee-kin? pee-kahn? pee-can? peh-kahn? peh-can?
RI here- and I pronounce it ahmond, though I have heard a few people say “aLmond.” It always catches my attention when I hear the L.
Texas here.
Always heard All-mund. Nover heard ahh-mund before.
Sammon (But I say the l in my own head)
Puh-cawn (Unless we are making fun of ourselves then its Pee-Can)
Yup, I just said “almond” to myself 15 times…good thing I’m alone right now! I’ve lived in VA all my, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard ah-mund without even a hint of L. I suspect that ahlmund is probably the closest to what I/we say, and I just think I’m pronouncing the L more than I do.
Also, I waiver back and forth on pee-can vs. p’cahn BIG time.
It has never occurred to me not to pronounce almond with an “l.” I’m from Boston, but pronounce my r’s and such, so I may not be your typical case. I lived in California for a bit and I never noticed “ah-mond.” Then again, I can’t say almonds come up that often in my conversations. As for pecan, I think I switch back and forth between pronunciations, but I consider both correct.
MD, DC-suburbs.
I think it’s a middle of the road almond pronunciation. Something like ah(l)-mund. The L is there, but swallowed–not hard and pronounced. Not quite “awl” but ahl, a new combination because we can’t decide if we’re supposed to get rid of it or not.
Salmon definitely has no spoken L.
Pecans are pronounced differently by almost every person I’ve met. :)
And just to be completely confusing, I grew up in Minnesota, lived in England, Boston, and (now) California and I never heard it “ah-mond.”
Then again, I could bring up the Minnesotan-only “Duck, Duck, Grey Duck” and get the arguments really going.
North-West England here.
And I’ve never, ever heard anything other than “al-mund”. Except, having read the word about a thousand times in the comments, I’m now doubting myself.
Also: always ‘sammon’.
Aw — Sars and Keckler with the “Duck, Duck, Grey Duck” vs. “Duck, Duck, Goose” debate. “Tastes great!” “Less filling!” (In north Jersey in the ’70s, it was “goose.”)
Keckler: Of course it is is Duck Duck Grey Duck! And I have never lived in Minesota (Australia, HI, PA, NJ and DE). My mother is from Wisconsin … maybe that’s where I get it.
MA/NY – “duck, duck, goose”. I don’t think I’ve ever even heard of “grey duck”!
Pee-can – my cousins and parents (all new yorkers) always said it that way, and I never really heard anyone say p’cahn, except mockingly, until my mexican-born texas-raised husband thought we were talking about different nuts…..
“North-West England here.
And I’ve never, ever heard anything other than “al-mund”. Except, having read the word about a thousand times in the comments, I’m now doubting myself.
Also: always ‘sammon’.”
Thank goodness you said that, Rory! I’m another Brit and I was thinking I’d grown up in some parallel world – Al-mund it is (as in, ‘you can call me Al-mund’) although I have heard all-mund and ah-mund. (West Midlands, England.)
But yet: sammon it is! (Also pee-cun, not that it matters as I didn’t meet one until I was about 16.)
For the record, I’m like Peach, I say awwmond.
But that’s not why I’m commenting. I get to use a lovely piece of useless info I’ve picked up…
An etymological legend says that ‘almond’ was never supposed to have an ‘l’ in the first place. The nut is native to the Middle East (Iran I think) and ‘al’ is used as an article in Arabic. Supposedly, the ‘l’ got added in the confusion when the term came over the various romance languages from the greek ‘amygdale.’ Since it was Arabic in origin, it must have an ‘l’, naturally. Realizing their mistake, the French took the ‘l’ out giving them, ‘amande’ while the Spanish kept it (almendra) and thus, we got the silent-ish ‘l’.
I realize no one cares about this crap, I’m just so damn excited to share one of my pieces of random info. Credit where credit is due though http://tinyurl.com/6jwdty it’s an awesome book, lots of great, useless facts.
“Uh…. the French for almond IS “amande”. It’s been a long time since the mandatory Canadian Franglais classes, but I’m pretty sure that’s the case.”
Katherine’s right about the modern French word, but the source of our English word is the older (Norman, essentially) form. I’m not sure that I buy Garner’s logic on the pronunciation based on that older spelling, though. I’m from Eastern Ontario, and heard mostly ah-mund thoughout most of my growing up. I’ve never noticed any pattern in the preference for one pronunciation over the other from place to place, just the near-universal distribution of the idea that “the other way” is kind of wrong. It’s “other” pronunciations of some similar words that I now find weird: “sawmon” (as opposed to “sammon“) sounds vaguely pretentious to me. I’ve never heard the l in salmon given its full value. I do know some people who pronounce “psalm” indistinguishably from “Sam” (which just sounds keee-razy. Or crah-zzaay, as the case may be.
@Hawkeyegirl: Hey, I care about this crap! In fact, I think it’s kind of cool. Bring on the useless info. (I could nerd out about how we got the word “adder” from mis-hearing the Old English “nædre” – fun times for everyone!)
My granddad (a Yorkshireman, lived in Canada from his early twenties) said “ah-mund” and “sammon“, but said that “a p’cahn goes in a pie; a pee-can goes under the bed.”