The Vine: May 4, 2005
Hi Sars, I have a question for The Vine.Hopefully someone can laugh
at our misery, because it used to be funny for us, too.
My husband and I live in a ground-floor one-bedroom apartment.The
building is only two stories tall and there is another one-bedroom
apartment above us.The layout is the same as our place, so the
bedroom of that apartment is directly over our bedroom.We are at the
end of the building and no other apartments directly touch us.About
a month ago a single girl moved into the apartment above us.She
looked about my age (26) and I wanted to introduce myself as the
downstairs neighbor.A couple of attempts at light conversation (by
the mailboxes, out by the pool, et cetera) were rather snobbishly brushed
off so I gave up.
A week or so after moving in she started bringing her boyfriend over
for the night on a regular basis.They have sex.A lot.Really,
really, really loud sex. The first time it happened, my husband and I
were in bed and giggled about the funny noises in the room above us.
But it never stopped. They’d start at 11 PM and go all night.The
only reason I know her boyfriend’s name is from hearing her call it
out in the throes of passion.You know when someone drops a pile of
books in a room above you and the whole room shakes?That’s what it’s
like to be in our bedroom when they’re going at it.I haven’t slept
for more than an hour at the time for the past week — I’m constantly
waking up to “squeaky thump squeaky thump squeaky thump PATRICK OH MY
GOD!”
I am not sure how to approach this.Given her snooty brush-offs in my
past attempts at light conversation, I don’t think a face-to-face
approach would work with this less pleasant topic.Anyways, a
stranger approaching you about your late-night sex sessions?Icky and
weird, and I don’t want to be That Weird Neighbor Who Butts Into
Everyone’s Personal Business.I was going to leave a note, but my
husband thinks that’s a bad idea.After all, she does live upstairs
from us and we are at her mercy for the remaining six months of our
lease as far as noise goes.
My other plan was to approach the
apartment manager about it, but I don’t want to seem like I’m avoiding
confrontation by having someone else do the dirty work.I also don’t
need her thinking I’m turning the apartment manager against her as
well (see point above).Personally, if someone approached me about
the same thing I’d be really embarrassed but I’d be thankful to know.
I’d hope she’d have the same reaction, but who am I to know.
We’re kind of alone on this due to the remoteness of our end of the
building. I didn’t think anyone else could hear them so it’s not like
I can rally the neighbors to help.
It would be nice to have an outsider’s opinion on this one.How would
you handle the situation?
Signed,
Rabbits have nothing on these two
Dear Bunny Foo-Foo,
Everyone’s definition of “quiet hours” is a little bit different, but on a weeknight, I think it’s fair to require an upstairs neighbor to keep it down starting at 11 PM — but you’ll have to say so, to her face.You’re all adults; she’s making too much noise; it’s no longer her “personal business” if she’s not making an effort to keep it private.
The next time she starts going all Upstairs Gone Wild, give it fifteen minutes, then compose yourself, rehearse your line, walk upstairs, knock on her door, and ask her to please keep it down because you’re trying to sleep — work tomorrow and all that, thanks.
You don’t have to say what “it” you mean — she knows.You don’t have to apologize for bothering her; she doesn’t have to like you.She needs to know she’s keeping you awake, and you need to tell her.Smile nicely and do it.
Dear Sars,
I have a situation with a former friend that I don’t know how to deal with.
My friend “L” and I became close friends freshman year of college, and housemates sophomore year.As the fall semester progressed, we started having more and more disagreements, and finally, the week before finals, we had a bitter argument, culminating with her wish to “break up with me” and asking me not to speak to her again.At that point, I was relieved to make a clean break and get away from what had become a bad situation.We were moving out of our house anyway, and it was easy for me to find a living situation that didn’t involve her.
However, we still had some financial evening-up to do, so in January I emailed her and offered to figure out the last of our bills if she would give me copies of them, hoping that the month we were on break would have given us both time to cool down.I wasn’t overly friendly, but I thought I had been polite.The next day she sent me a furious email accusing me of thinking she was trying to cheat me (incidentally, although I didn’t think so at the time, I’m pretty sure she did), and trying to redo all the hard work which I had forced her into doing because I hadn’t asked to help sooner, et cetera et cetera.Basically: still angry.Okay, point taken.
I haven’t spoken to her since, but it’s making life awkward, and I absolutely hate being involved in drama like this.We go to a very small school, so we run into each other a lot, and have the same group of close friends.I can’t help feeling that somehow it’s all my fault and I should be apologizing.The thing is: it’s not.I’ve talked to several level-headed, independent people about the situation, and they told me that, yes, she was out of line and that it sounded like I had tried my best, so give up and move on.And I have — I’ve tried to expand my circle of friends, and I’ve tried to quit being embarrassed by the whole thing.
BUT: we’re both going on a school-sponsored trip to a remote foreign country next month, and we’re signed up to be roommates.The roommate setup I can probably change, but the three weeks of traveling through very primitive conditions with only 14 other people I can’t.I want this drama to go away.I mean, we know each other; it feels weird to pointedly ignore each other’s existences, especially if we’re going to be traveling so closely.Can’t we just be civil to each other — sort of distantly acknowledged acquaintances?
My dad thinks I should go up to her and say, “So, do you still want me never to speak to you again, or can we both behave like adults and deal with this?”Eh.Direct, yes.Would give me a clear answer, yes.But it doesn’t seem very tactful, and I don’t think I have the courage anyway. Besides, if she says, “Yeah, I pretty much still hate you,” then that doesn’t advance me much, does it?
What should I do?Should I do anything?
Thanks, Sars, and sorry for the length.
No, actually, I don’t think I should cook your dinner and clean your dishes!
Dear Neither Do I,
Well, L sounds…kind of fragile, so I don’t know how much good it’ll do, but I’d recommend emailing her (or phoning her and reading from a script, more or less), to the effect of: “Listen, I know we aren’t friends anymore, which is okay, but we’ll be spending nearly in month in close quarters, so I’ve asked for a roommate reassignment to ease the awkwardness a bit — and I hope we can be civil for the duration of the trip, so as not to make anyone else uncomfortable.Thanks.”
I suspect, from what you’ve told me, that she’s going to get immediately defensive and accuse you of accusing her of an inability to be civil — she just kind of sounds like she’s looking for any excuse to stay pissed.But part of the reason you want to broach this now isn’t just so that the bad blood doesn’t poison the trip; it’s so, if she flies off the handle and doesn’t agree to put it aside for three weeks, you can at least tell yourself, well, I tried, so fuck her.
I don’t mean that you should be a bitch during the trip, and I think you absolutely need to get the roommate assignment changed, but if she’s going to act like a drama queen, you can then ignore it (and her) because, hey, you tried to avoid exactly that and she’s not having it.
But see how a “look, this isn’t a great set-up for either of us, but let’s just work with it” email goes over.And who knows, maybe she’ll bail on the trip in a huff and you won’t have to worry about it.
Dear Sars,
I’m hoping you can offer some perspective on this situation. I’ve been friends with K since grade school. After graduation from high school (ten years ago) we drifted apart but still keep in touch via email a couple of times a month. K has struggled with depression for as long as I have known her, but she refuses to start therapy. She insists that the right combination of meds will set her right, and she has a physician who supplies her with tons of antidepressants, yet he doesn’t make her go through any sort of counseling.
K broke up with her boyfriend recently and I didn’t hear from her for a while. It seems that she was hospitalized after attempting to commit suicide. She stayed in the hospital for a little over a week, and then was released. She has not been back for any sort of follow-up therapy, and she refuses to see the social worker assigned to her case. She insists that it was “just a bad case of PMS” and assures me that she will be fine if her doctor will just change the type of birth control pill she’s on. She hasn’t, however, visited her doctor to get this prescription change since being released from the hospital.
I’m not sure how much I can do or what to do. When I last spoke to K I told her I thought therapy was necessary and that she should see her MD pronto for this magical change in medication, but she did not seem to take any of my advice to heart. She’s a grown woman and I can’t make her do anything she doesn’t want to, but I worry that she will end up a suicide. I offered to come stay with her for a while, just to help out around the house (and keep an eye on her) but she said no thanks.
To top this off, she has a seven-year-old daughter she’s raising alone.
What can I do to help? I don’t want to lose her.
Signed,
Worried BFF
Dear Worried,
You might try speaking more directly to her about what you just said to me — that you can’t make her get better help than she’s gotten, but you worry that she’s going to kill herself, you worry about her daughter, you don’t think what she’s doing now is working for her, and you really want her to get talk therapy and stay in touch.
I don’t know if I understand the “it seems that she was hospitalized” thing, though, honestly — was she or wasn’t she?Did she tell you herself that she attempted suicide, or did you hear it from somewhere else?Because I’m not real clear on how close you still are with her; on the one hand, you sign yourself “BFF” and you offer to go stay with her, but on the other hand she seems to drop out of touch and you don’t know exactly what’s going on…not that that changes the basic nature of the situation.I just point it out because…this may not be a problem you should be handling from a distance.
Strictly speaking, it isn’t a problem you should be handling at all.Of course you’re concerned and you want to keep an eye on things, but you aren’t a mental health professional, and again, I don’t exactly know whether you’re her only support network or what.
Keep your hand in with her; try to get her to seek counseling and to follow up with the social worker — but as you’ve said, she’s a grown-up, and unless you think there is an imminent danger of her harming herself, you have to let her find her own way.
Dear Sars:
I have a problem, and I know you’ll have a good answer to it.You have a tremendous understanding of people, and your advice is always articulate and spot-on.
I’ve been married for eight years to B.He’s my best friend; we have the same social and political views and similar backgrounds, and we’ve known each other since college.We make the same goofy jokes, complete each other’s sentences, the whole shebang.
Unfortunately, I’m not really physically attracted to B, and this matter is getting worse with each passing month.He has gained 50 pounds since we got married, but that’s not really a factor in the no-attraction issue — I think even if he lost it all I would still feel this way.Part of what I find least attractive is that he has no confidence in himself whatsoever, and he constantly berates himself.He calls himself “Fatty” all the time now (to which I always respond, “Honey, you’re fine, stop calling yourself that”).The continual fits of self-loathing combined with a total lack of initiative to get in shape is what I find most maddening.Whenever I ask him to come to the gym with me, he’s always “too tired” or “not in the mood.”
What B is in the mood for, unfortunately, is sex.Like, all the time.If I bend over to tie my shoes, he gets an erection.He gropes me without any provocation — I could be reading a book and minding my own business, and he’ll put his hand on my breasts or crotch.And I know that he is masturbating frequently; he always has; he’s like a 16-year-old boy in that regard.
I’ve asked him to stop the unwarranted sexual overtures, and he’ll quit for a couple weeks before he starts up again.I’ve told him that I’m sorry my libido isn’t a better match for his and that I would understand if he found a lover.(He flatly refuses to do that, by the way.)
What should I do about this?I’m worried that my sexual ambivalence is inciting his desire even further while simultaneously sending his self-esteem even lower.Thing is, I don’t want to have sex with him.Okay, maybe if I were point-blank desperate, but I’m not that desperate and don’t think I will be in the near future.
P.S.I’m not gay, either, in case you were wondering. I like men generally, and a few specifically, and I wouldn’t mind having sex with one of them, just not with my husband.
Thanks,
No Sex, Please, I’ve Lost My Appetite
Dear What A Coincidence, Me Too,
I just don’t understand these roommate-marriage letters, I really don’t.I mean, if a roommate marriage works for you, great, but the thing is, I never hear about the ones that work because people who don’t have a problem with it don’t write to advice columns.
I don’t know what the issue is; I don’t have enough information.I don’t know if you’re on libido-killing meds, I don’t know when the last time you had sex is, I don’t even know if you ever felt attracted to B or if this is a recent thing with his weight gain and depression.
But the thing is, you two aren’t sexually compatible, period — he’s lazy and he harasses you, you’re too inert to get out of a sexless marriage.If he’s such a best friend to you, why can’t he stop pawing you — and why can’t you communicate to him that something is seriously awry in the relationship?If the marriage means enough to you that you’d grant him a lover in order to keep it, why on earth haven’t the two of you gotten counseling — sex counseling, marriage counseling, separate, together, something?
You know you need to figure this out and take action.Do it.He’s not the only problem here.He’s not even the biggest problem here.
I’ve been reading — and loving — the site for years; finally time to delurk. It’s not a boy; it’s not a cat; it’s religion, or more accurately, a lack of one.
After much thought and reading (the KJV, the Bhagavad Gita,
the complete works of atheist Robert Ingersoll, et cetera), I’ve decided that I’m an agnostic, but I support the political and scientific positions of most atheist organizations much more than I support those of any religious organization I know of. Normally this would be only my own concern, and I certainly plan to keep in mind how annoying proselytizing in any form is.
Unfortunately, I was not only born and baptized but confirmed a Roman Catholic, and unless I write in and have myself officially excommunicated, there’s my name on the membership list, supporting pro-life Catholic hospitals and anti-gay rights bishops and all kinds of beliefs I vehemently disagree with. However, if I do this, it means that I can no longer be married in a Catholic church or buried in “sacred” ground, and I am officially removed from the Catholic community. So I feel this is a big step, and though my beliefs are my own, I don’t want family and friends assuming something about me that isn’t true, and I feel they should be informed if I go ahead with this, in case it should come up later.
My parents are fairly religious and my grandparents/aunts/cousins deeply so; how can I break it to them, keeping in mind that I’ll be living at home for at least the next year (I’m a college student). I could just put it off, but every day I do means another day on that list, and with this new Pope and our country getting less church/state separated by the day, I don’t know if I can do that in good conscience. Besides, I am fairly close with my parents, and not to be overdramatic, but I don’t want to “live a lie.”
Signed,
Say, remember that Monty Python movie…
Dear There’s More Than One,
Yeah, “overdramatic” is about the size of it.I’ve never heard of this “membership list” (please don’t email me, I’m sure it exists, but…not Catholic, don’t care), but I think you’re making too big a deal over your presence on it.Your beliefs, whatever they may be, are between you and your God — or, you know, not.You’re not obligated to make a federal case out of announcing that you’ve left the church.People drift away from the Catholic church all the time, so maybe you could just lapse, like everyone else, instead of turning it into a family meeting.
What others assume about your beliefs is really their issue, not yours.Believe what you feel, and when the time is less awkward (read: not going to jeopardize your tuition payments), you can maybe mention it if the subject comes up.And just live your life.Support causes that have meaning to you; get on their lists.If you don’t want that organization to decide for you what you are?…Don’t.
Tags: boys (and girls) etiquette friendships roommates sex
