The Vine: May 5, 2010
Dear Sars,
When I was younger, my mom and I had a number of cats and two dogs. The last of the dogs passed away right around the time that my mom was changing her career and moving to a new town. The last of the cats stayed with me until he finally passed away last year (he was 20).
After she began working at her small business, my mom decided that she missed having a dog and wanted to find one that could be with her all day since she worked long hours. She found L through an organization that saves older dogs from shelters and then pairs them up with juvenile offenders until the dogs get their good citizenship certificates.
L is an awesome dog (he’s an older Australian shepherd) — he goes to work with Mom each day and is such a sweetheart that some of her customers come in just to pet him and maybe sneak him a cookie. He’s very timid and reacts strongly to anything that might be considered negative feedback; just the word “no” can set him cringing. If something is going on that isn’t “the way things should be” he can get very stressed out. He’s very much a marshmallow when it comes to ego. As an aside, it makes me think extremely mean thoughts about his previous owners and what his life must have been like to leave him this way.
After a few years, Mom decided that she missed having cats in her life and started thinking about adopting. L is fascinated with cats and gets very excited when he sees them when he’s out on walks, so we figured that he’d like to have one of his own. I found a brother/sister pair through my vet that were mellow and affectionate. The first meeting between them and L went well and Mom fell in love with them, so the kittens moved in.
The problem is that L is terrified of them to a certain extent and they think he’s the best thing since tuna. In the beginning the kittens wanted to snuggle up with him and he’d freak out that they were touching him and he’d go hide in a corner. Also, being kittens, they cause trouble like scratching things they shouldn’t or trying to eat the house plants and the act of disciplining them sets off a meltdown in him. I think some of his problems with them stem from his worrying that they’re breaking the rules and will get him in trouble. Things aren’t all grim, though…L’s starting to relax a bit and the kittens are growing out of some of their misbehavior, but it’s slow going and it causes a lot of stress for my Mom.
I was wondering if you or your readership has any advice on ways to help reassure him and mitigate L’s anxiety around the kittens, or ideas on how to train the kittens out of some of their habits without using the dread “no.” I know that in the end, they all just need to learn to live with one another and that’ll take time, but any tips would be greatly appreciated!
Trying to help the marshmallow
Dear Help,
The issue is likely not the word “no” itself; it’s any shouting that happens near L. You might ask your vet for recommendations for a canine behaviorist, and then make a few calls, asking specifically if they have any experience in or luck with inuring animals to yelling, loud sounds, and so on — the idea is to retrain L to distinguish better between discipline directed at the cats and negative feedback/actual danger that involves him.
You can probably do a modified version yourself in the meantime by always, always prefacing kitten disciplinary measures with their names — “Other Kitten, get down from there!” — and then quickly pairing that with a reward for him if he manages not to wig out too badly (“L, biscuit?”). This has its downsides, of course: you have to be ruthlessly consistent with it, and if I gave the Stupidheads’ dog Rachel a treat every time one of my cats misbehaved, she’d be a sphere by tomorrow morning. But the goal is twofold: teach L that not all yelling is about him; and create happier associations with the bellowing of “CAAAAAAAT!!” than his current ones.
That’s what you want to tell any prospective dog whisperers; they’ll have better and more specific instructions for behavior mods than I will. Eventually, the cats will sleep 20 hours a day and require less “correction,” but alas, it takes a few years for cats to mellow, so you should probably call in a professional in the near term. Good luck!
Dear Sars —
About two weeks ago, we brought in a stray who had been coming around. She had gone missing for a few days, and after that, we thought she might be safer inside. She’s very friendly and loves to be petted and played with. We took her to the vet, and she checked out. The only thing, he couldn’t tell if she had been spayed or was pregnant. Two weeks later, I’m pretty sure she’s pregnant, but will get that confirmed with the vet next week. She’s very small, about 7 pounds, and is black with brown and white markings. She currently is being called S’mores.
The problem is my existing 9-year-old cat and my 3-year-old daughter. We’ve been keeping the two cats apart, with the hopes of introducing them to one another after they had a chance to smell each other around the house. We tried getting them together last night, and now I know the meaning of “letting the fur fly.” We really like S’mores, but she was clearly the aggressor against our much larger, slower, older cat. My daughter was extremely frightened by the experience, so I don’t think I can just hope the cats eventually come to an understanding. I’m not sure that S’mores is meant to be part of a larger pet household. She would love to be the much-loved single cat.
So, I’m sending out a plea for someone in the Baltimore/Washington area who would love to have a friendly cat. The pregnancy is an issue, I know. I would even be willing to pay for S’mores to be spayed after the kittens arrive, if someone would like a kitty but can’t handle the cost of the surgery. We might even be able to keep her until after she has the kittens (which I’m guessing will happen in early June), but it would be better if we could find her a caring home, one where she could have her kittens and then be kept there.
Thanks for any help you can provide,
Susan
Dear Susan,
We’ll see if anyone in the readership is interested, but that aside, you need to give the situation more time. Cats fighting, and all the screeching that ensues, is a little scary even for grownups, but you can find an age-appropriate way to explain to your daughter the facts I will now remind you of, to wit: S’mores didn’t have a home for a while, so she’s very territorial now that she does have one; if she is in fact pregnant, that will ramp up her willingness to fight; if she’s not fixed, she’s going to Have Issues with this until you can spay her.
It’s a good teaching moment as far as letting your daughter know that, sometimes, pets get in fights, and while it’s a bit upsetting at the time, she can move on from it and enjoy the cats (and learn when she should remove herself from the middle of a potential conflict). How you do that is obviously up to you, but if somebody had explained to me a bit better about what it means when dogs bark (usually: not much), I wouldn’t have been so scared of them as a small child.
The cats themselves will likely get over it in time, but this was not exactly an unforeseen outcome. The current cat is not used to having company, I assume, and S’mores is an unfixed stray who is adjusting to a new place and new smells, and is also getting ready to have a litter.
I doubt you’ll have much luck placing a pregnant cat, honestly, so you’ll need to deal with the situation as it is. For now, try to create a zone where S’mores stays, preferably a place with potential nests or corners where she might like to give birth. (Ask your vet about specifics on that as the time gets closer.) Keep the cats separate; explain to your daughter that S’mores needs quiet time, or whatever you want to say. Maintain the separation until the kittens come, have S’mores spayed ASAP after that, and once the kittens have gone to their various homes and the dust has settled, then you can think about trying to introduce the two cats.
But one catfight after a mere two weeks, when one of the combatants is recently rescued and probably pregnant, is not grounds for rehoming. I broke up three yesterday alone, and these cats have now lived together for ten years. I get that it freaked your daughter out, but giving S’mores away won’t undo that, and is not a great lesson in the second place. Try to cope.
Hi, Sars,
This may be way too soon to ask, after we all rallied for Zeus, but I’m hoping that maybe the Nation can give my cat a hand too.
Ashes is 8 months old and is, as I type this, having emergency abdominal surgery due to an obstruction. We’re really careful about leaving stuff lying around, but kittens are kittens, and she must have swallowed something. (Her symptoms reminded me of Hobey’s when he was sick awhile back.) We all love her dearly, but my five-year-old is particularly close to her — Ashes was her birthday present — so there really was no question of telling the vet to operate, but the vet bill is huge and I am panicking.
I am setting up a ChipIn account and if anyone would be willing to help us help Ashes, I would so appreciate it, and so would my daughter. Thanks.
Ashes’ human
Dear Human,
We’ll see what we can do. If you haven’t already, ask your vet about an installment plan; with the economy the way it’s been, it’s surely not the first request of that sort they’ve heard. (My vet got into me for three lab panels, two tubes of fancy eye ointment that did bubkes, and a freakin’ EKG last month, so believe me, I feel you.)
Tags: cats
For The Marshmallow,
Maybe you could try disciplining the kittens with a water spray bottle, or a gently smack on the rump, or some other way that doesn’t involve yelling. When my Bad Barn Cats are acting up, they don’t even CARE if I yell, but the noise upsets Mr. Duzy Batz. So, when Parvati is rearranging the TV cables and the curtains, or Rajah is chomping on Panjandarum, or (any cat) is up on the kitchen counter, I get up off my lazy seat and smack’em. Lightly, with a soft slipper or the business end of a cheap plastic flyswatter. Or, I simply grab the transgressor and sit down with her/him in a petting hold until they forget what they were up to. No one has to get hurt, and Mr. DB doesn’t go into a frenetic attack mode.
For S’Mores, please give her more time. It’s been years, now, and we still have daily hissyfits because someone ALMOST touched Mr. Duzy Batz.
For Ashes, good luck, and I’m going right now to look at your donation site.
I melted at the last letter…because my cat is named Ashes, too! :) I’ll definitely donate. Good luck!
Susan – cats can be spayed during pregnancy. It usually means an abortion, yes, but the world, sadly, already has more than enough cats, most of whom are destined to be put to sleep anyway. So that may be an option to discuss with your vet at the next appointment.
To Susan:
You might contact Lisa at the following :
http://hubblespacepaws.blogspot.com/p/about-uscontact-us.html
They are in her area, Lisa is a friend and can help at least with contacts and moral support….tell her ” Aunty Pol ” sent me.
One general thing that Marshmallow should be sure not to do is to “comfort” L when he’s nervous. It’s a human instinct that’s REALLY hard to overcome, but the petting and cooing that might be comforting to a person is reinforcing to a dog, and you don’t want to reinforce the nervous behavior.
S’mores mom, check into your local shelter system, particularly any run by the county or state. Here in Washington State (King County in particular) the local government will pay for all spays and neutering of rescue cats, which makes sense–less cats to rescue in the future! If there’s any local shelters that will set you up as a foster parent for the kittens, they could assist you in getting them spayed as well.
Ashes Mom, awww, poor thing! And man, can I sympathize–we adopted kittens after our last cats passed away, thinking we could enjoy a year or two of good, young cat health before all the maintenance issues cropped up. Wrong-o! Our little Peanut developed urine crystals before he was a year old, and must eat special (read: expensive) cat food for the rest of his life. I’ll check our financials and see if we can throw in!
Seconding the rec to give the cats time. We adopted a second cat back in October. We thought it would go well since the first one was so laid back. We adopted a three-legged black cat whose owner was being evicted for dealing meth. We really felt strongly about keeping him, since we knew a three-legged black cat would never get adopted from a shelter, but some of his issues (probably related to living in a meth house, I’m guessing) made him a little… hard to love at first. In fact, for about 2 months, our whole place was rearranged so that His Royal Highness could have his own room. There were many fights and scary noises and clumps of fur in those first few weeks/months, but it was worth it, cause now both cats are on the bed with me as I type. So cute!
Also, I highly recommend the cat pheromone collar. It’s like one of those plastic flea collars, but it releases hormones to keep the cat calm and happy. We found it at PetCo for about $10, totally worth it:
http://www.amazon.com/Sentry-Behavior-Pheromone-Collar-15-Inch/dp/B0026JAKWG
Ashes, Ashes, we all chip in! I sure did. Here’s hoping the little fuzzball gets well soon!
Oops, my last comment should have said pheromones, not hormones. Obviously.
I just chipped in for sweet Ashes. I hope he makes a full recovery!
When I had a huge vet bill and no way to pay it, my vet didn’t offer an installment plan, but did point me towards Care Credit, which is essentially a credit card only for medical issues (including human and pet). The interest rate is not exactly small, but it made it possible for me to pay for the emergency surgery and pay it off in a reasonable time frame.
Susan: Seconding Wehaf’s recommendation about spaying kitty now, even if she is pregnant. I know, it’s sad to abort kittens. However, even sadder are kittens who don’t find homes and are put to sleep. I’m actually surprised the vet couldn’t tell the difference between pregnant and spayed. That’s not a hard determination to make, seeing as she should have a scar along her midline if she’d been spayed. Did the vet not think to shave her tummy and check??? Heck, an ultrasound would have shown if she had a uterus, much less KITTENS in said uterus. I’m dubious of your vet…
I would also suggest using a squirt gun and/or spray bottle with your kittens. You don’t even have to say anything — the water should be enough.
Adrienne, I wondered that, too. My vet can feel a spay scar with her eyes closed.
As someone who has two herding breeds currently and one previously, the cats doing something wrong will set the dog off however they deal with the cats. In the dog’s mind, it’s job is to help you out and when he knows that behavior is not on, he’s going to go nutty until they are off. My two, Australian Cattle Dogs, go into an utter tizzy when the cat gets on the counter. Their tizzy then freaks out the cat and they have to be told to go lay down and then I get the cat off the counter. The key is staying calm- the squirt gun suggestion is a good one, but I wouldn’t tap them with something because the dog may then see that as acceptable and nose the cats or even nip them (as they would a sheep or cow not going where it’s told). I’ve tapped my cat before to get her down from where she’s not to be, and my alpha dog will then nose bonk her which isn’t what I want him doing.
Both my dogs cringe when I give a harsh ‘NO!’ even if I use the other dog’s name first. I calmly give the dog that isn’t doing anything wrong a quick pet so they know they aren’t the one in trouble. They snap right out of it and it’s not re-enforcing the cringe, it’s letting them know they aren’t in trouble.
Aussies and other herding breeds can often be ‘soft’ or sensitive, sometimes overly so. That sounds like the case here. Both of mine are soft dogs, one moreso than the other. Instead of ‘no’ an ‘at-at’ or ‘ack!’ can be pretty effective. It doesn’t sound like it would matter, but if it’s not a noise they have heard yet (unlike ‘no’ which is the definitely ‘bad dog’ word) then they won’t necessarily worry so much about it. I use it during sheep herding class to let mine know that’s not the desired behavior- if you yell ‘no’ too many times they shut down. We use it more like a ‘not quite, try again’, but it could be used as the cat’s ‘no’ so that the dog will be able to differentiate.
‘If something is going on that isn’t “the way things should be” he can get very stressed out.’
Frankly, that’s a very, very common herding breed trait. They can be kind of neurotic, but it’s just because their job was intended for them to keep things in the right place.
‘He’s very much a marshmallow when it comes to ego. As an aside, it makes me think extremely mean thoughts about his previous owners and what his life must have been like to leave him this way.’
I’m not saying his former owners *didn’t* do bad things, but I’ve also seen a lot of Aussies and Border Collies that have had excellent environments to grow up in and still lack confidence and cringe. You have to build the confidence of a timid dog in a certain way or it will make the worse. Sometimes being too easy on them or not putting them in tough situations can actually make them worse. If you can find something he really likes to do, even something like agility just for fun, it can give them a lot of confidence when they do things right and get praised and cheered for. That confidence building often carries over and builds the ego a little at a time.
I recommend a behaviorist that knows something about/has dealt with herding breeds. Trainers that are used to Labs and Golden Retrieves and such don’t always understand these types of dogs.
Catfights were perfectly described by Hamlet when he talked about “full of sound and fury signifying nothing.”
I have to say that the ONLY thing that gets our two cats to stop doing anything is the dreaded squirt bottle. Now they stop what they’re doing if they even see us reaching for the bottle. We put one in every room of the house. My dog is also of the I-get-ragey-when-I-think-about-his-former-life variety, and he doesn’t like loud shouting either. Actually he has weird seizure-like anxiety attacks when he gets upset, complete with self-mutilation and a bleeding face, so we try not to have the sudden loud noises (I say, as my apartment is literally shaking from thunder). He doesn’t care about the water the way the cats do, because we never aim for him and water isn’t quite so upsetting for him. Therefore, the squirt bottle has twofold goodness: it doesn’t upset the dog, and it effectively(ish) trains cats.
And I second the reminder not to comfort him after he gets scared. It tells him that scared is the correct state for him to be in. This is really, really hard to break when you know your animal has been abused in the past. But I’ve found that when my pup starts to freak out, an assertive command (“Come. Sit. Lie down. Relax. Goodboyhere’satreatyou’resoprettyiloveyousoooomuch!!!”) and treat snap him out of his state far better than petting and soothing. Not only does his mind get distracted, but he’s reminded that he’s a Good Dog who Knows Tricks, and the combo of distraction and making him use his brain to do something that he knows how to do works faster, and decreases the amount of anxiety attacks he has. Even though the Dog Whisperer might be a problematic show, one thing I heard on it was the best advice ever–your dog doesn’t want to be in control; your dog wants you to be in control. You have to tell your dog what to do so that he can just chill out and follow orders, so when you give your dog a command and he can follow it, it’s actually extremely soothing for your dog. Even though it seems mean and bossy to a human.
I second @Amy’s suggestion to use Care Credit for large vet bills. When my cat had to have emergency surgery last fall (stones in his bladder– he’s fine now, but damn it was expensive) we applied for the card. We received NO interest for the first year, which was awesome. Definitely look into that if you can. Sending good vibes Ashes’ way!
@Marshmallow – I have to second autiger’s recs about herding breeds, and her general advice about herding breeds in general. I’m an Aussie owner myself, and neurotic is exactly the word I would use to describe her (as well as adorable, sweet, funny, and many others). She’s not as sensitive as L, but I have worked very hard to make her that way. It’s just how they are. Sounds like L is a good fit for your mom, and for the kittens.
The squirt bottle is a great rec. If water doesn’t do the trick, I’ve heard that diluted listerine works. Other things that may work (but may scare L) are soda cans with pennies (but makes a loud noise) or a little piece of lamp chain (also makes a noise but not as loud). It’s all about distracting them from whatever bad behavior they are doing, and redirecting them to something more appropriate. I’m sure you know this, but make sure they have plenty of things to climb and scratch legitimately.
Also, many Aussies respond well to food (especially if negative words or sounds are scary, go for the positive) so find something L REALLY likes, and whenever you end up disciplining the kittens, give L that something. Or, remove L from the room before disciplining the kittens. And mostly, just ride it out. The kittens need time to grow, and L needs time to adjust to having Wild!Animals! in the house.
In due time, I bet L and the kittens are the best of friends. But don’t be surprised if those little kittens are the bosses of the dog. My last roommate had a small cat who was 1/10 the size of my aussie and that little cat (Roo) had my 50 lb Aussie under her thumb. If my dog went into Roo’s room, Roo chased her out ASAP. But Roo could waltz right into my room, and sleep on my dog’s bed, and nothing my dog could do would dissuade this behavior. So be prepared for some fun and games, but mostly, lots of love!
Similar to Megan’s suggestion, they also make a Calming collar for Dogs.:
http://tinyurl.com/Doggy-collar
From the reviews, it mostly seems like it either works like magic or doesn’t do a thing, depending on the dog, but for $15 it might be worth a try.
My dog Jack was a scaredy-dog with a likely-abusive past. We generally just tried to pet him and comfort him if he got freaked out by people yelling at the Eagles’ game (which, in retrospect, seems to go against the advice here but Jack turned out all right). My sister’s 8-month old puppy responds well to the “can of pennies” method of discipline but he still tends to ignore anyone but her husband or my dad when they say, “Jack, no jumping!” or “Jack, no biting!”
And yes, my sister named the new dog after her previous one. Jack 2 looks just like Jack 1 as it is, who died almost 5 years ago (holy heck, 5 years already?)
And my cat used to own Jack 1 like nobody’s business so be prepared for that. Cats just have a way of getting animals 10x their size to do what they say.
I work at an animal hospital, and there’s a credit card you can get, specifically for medical expenses, including Pet medical expenses. It sucks that it’s a credit card, but it can get you past any high-ticket hurdles. It’s http://www.carecredit.com and you can apply at home ahead of time. If you get it, just make sure your vet is aware of it, so they can charge you correctly. My understanding is that any bills are interest-free, provided you pay it off in 6 months time? Bonus, you can use this same card for your own emergency doctor/dentist bills too. I have NOT used this card myself, but I’ve not heard anything negative back from our clients. I just know that many vets won’t do any installment plans due to being burned in the past, ya know?
Marshmallow:
I’m sorry that I don’t have any suggestions but I just wanted to say that I hope you follow up at a later time, once there is some resolution. Your letter made me want to cry — poor L (and, like you, I hope whoever caused him to be so nervous pays in some way or another). Also, I love knowing that you and your mom are so kind to L; his special needs might cause lesser people to just give up on him.
Re. the CareCredit info: I have used it several times — sadly, for pet expenses (I still miss you, Tim. And Edgar and Finster) and I recommend it. I think that you might even be able to get longer than 6 months to pay it too — you just have to indicate this at the time you use the card. I paid mine off sooner than the 6 months I selected and I have not had any problems with “fine print” stuff after the fact.
Water squirting is definitely a good way to train cats. We use my son’s pump-action water gun, and at least half of the time boykitty is deterred by the sound alone. Water doesn’t always work, though. Our previous boykitty — RIP — didn’t give a rat’s ass about water. He’d just turn his head and look at us disdainfully if we tried squirting him.
Another way that’s supposed to work (with kittens, anyway), is to walk up to them and pin them down with your huge paw (like a mama cat). I think you pin down the head? I’m not sure. It definitely didn’t work with our boykitty (he just figured we were roughhousing).
Good luck to all of you fabulous pet owners.
I just checked the Chip In website again, and at the moment there are 15 contributors who have given Ashes a total of $290.00. (I think I can feel sniffles coming on…) C’mon, Nation, we can knock a bigger dent into the medical bill! And a big Whoo-Hoo for those who already have donated.
@kategm “Cats just have a way of getting animals 10x their size to do what they say.”
:-D Absolutely:-) There is a good reason why I call myself “Cat slave”.
It’s very interesting to learn about the differences between cats and dogs, especially the domination thing. (Although we do have a cat who likes to be dominated and really wants us to be together in one place or she’ll start meowing- we call her our little herding dog-cat:-))
I have nothing smart to add, except maybe to second the abortion spaying, horrible as sounds.
M’mallow, does hissing scare L? Because my cats take it very seriously when I hiss at them, and it’s not a particularly loud noise.
Susan, all good advice. I’m in a similar sitch & can’t catch mama-to-be…yet. We’ve made a safe haven on the porch & have several Machiavellian plots to catch her AND the kittens. Love you for trying, thank you.
Ashes’ Human, you’ve surely come to the right place. Wishing you luck & a fantastic outcome. (Thanks for making it soooo easy to chip in!)
Thanks so much to everyone who has offered their good wishes or who have chipped in!!! I am truly grateful. Ashes is doing well, I have been unable to post any pix anywhere, but will keep trying.
OK, sorry for the double post, but I finally figured out how to link to a few pictures of Ashes. If you go to the Chipin site, there’s a link there, or you can just go to http://inksmudge-thisnthat.blogspot.com/2010/05/ashes-kitty.html and see Ashes there. Thanks!
@Ashes’ Human Oh, squee! Ashes is such a little cutie! She looks exactly like my Bear did when she was a kitten. I hope she’s doing well!
I also use hissing to keep my cats in line. I find it works best when I really mean it (seems to give it an extra harsh tone) and when I put a hard stop on the end like “Hssssst” rather than “Hsssssss”. We’ve been doing this since our 2nd and 3rd cats were little and it works well. It has especially come in handy now that we have a baby who is bothered by a shout of “No” but either doesn’t notice or laughs at a hiss.
@Susan – check with MetroFerals in the DC area for help with mama kitty. http://www.metroferals.org/
Also, as a previous stray, she may have been picked up as a TNR (trap, neuter, release). If so, TNR spays are often flank spays – her surgical scar will be on her side, not her tummy. Is her ear tipped? (One ear point cropped off is a sure sign of a TNR spay.)