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Home » The Vine

The Vine: May 6, 2005

Submitted by on May 6, 2005 – 8:26 PMNo Comment

Hi Sars,

I love your site, and I especially love the Vine. Thanks for making my
workdays more pleasant!

I’ve been reading through your old archives recently, and I came
across “Down, Boy!” Now, I’m a grown woman, so the issues in that article
don’t 100% apply to me, but the one thing that I’d really like to hear
you say more about is guys who don’t like to give oral sex. It’s a
tough issue for me (I’ve had boyfriends who will and boyfriends who
won’t), because I feel like I can see both sides. On the one hand,
refusing to go down seems incredibly selfish, probably sexist, and
just plain frustrating. On the other hand, in a sexual relationship,
people are allowed to say what they do and do not want to do. I
wouldn’t judge a woman who refused to have anal sex as selfish, for
example, even if her partner really, really wanted her to do it.

So, what do you think? Are guys who won’t go down automatically
asswipes? Or are they just exercising their right to choose what they
do and don’t want to do?

Love me, love my vagina

Dear Love,

No, of course they’re not automatically asswipes.But if their reasoning is that they just don’t feel like it, because it’s more work than they want to do, so they’ll just play on the fact that women are socialized to think our vaginas are disgusting?Asswipes.If they think a deep dicking should do it, and if we want them to do anything else in the helping-out-with-our-orgasm department, that’s tough?Asswipes.

And, you know, it cuts both ways.I’m not a huge fan of women who are too princessy to go down, either.Yeah, now and then it can get uncomfortable down there, and everyone gets that (or should, and should have a sense of humor about it), but everyone also needs to put in a yeoman effort.

If a guy has given it a bunch of college tries and he just isn’t into it, well, okay.There are some women who aren’t all that into receiving it, either; eventually, he’ll find one of those women.But there’s a clear difference between being too lazy/thinking he’s above it/having some kind of vagina-adjacent neurotic pathology, and just not liking it that much; one is fine, but the other is sort of messed up, and it’s not real hard to tell which one you’re dealing with.

Hi Sarah,

First of all, LOVE the site.I’ve been a long-time fan.I was hoping that you could give me some advice or more like shed some light regarding guy/girl friendships and loyal friends.

I must admit, I have no guy friends.This is because the burgeoning friendship in the beginning is usually one-sided (either I like him more than a friend and it is not reciprocated or it is nothing but friendship on my side and he is into me).This kind of saddens me because I see my girlfriends that have these amazing friendships with guys, whatever that means.Or they may be deluded.My philosophy has always been that guys and girls cannot be JUST friends, unless one of them is gay or that their so-called “friendship” is not that deep.Because “deep” would mean that they are more than “just friends.”To me, anyway.Seriously, why would you honestly care about a guy or girl and the minutiae of his/her life if you’re not “interested” in that person?Hell, I certainly wouldn’t.Am I just dead inside with a cold soul?What do you think?

Also, I have this friend who I thought was my best friend at one point, who hurt me a great deal by having a secret friendship with someone I’ll call Jamie (who I had a fallout with).You may see this as jealousy but it isn’t.Maybe to some degree it is jealousy, but I find it hard to swallow that she would keep seeing this person, when Jamie hurt me pretty badly.I won’t divulge the details but basically, I really liked Jamie long ago and tried to pursue him but it didn’t work out.Boo-effin-hoo, I know.I am a little tweaked that my friend knew all this yet kept this liaison a secret.She would tell me small details like, “Oh, we just went for dinner…that’s it,” no-big-deal kind of thing.They are not involved romantically but are VERY close.I guess this bothers me a little.What I am asking is, do I have a right to be upset?Or am I reacting like a sixth-grader?I just feel betrayed — in the full sense of the word — and have lost all faith in a true, loyal friendship.

Thanks so much.By the way, you ROCK!!

Signed,
Hurt but haven’t lost faith….yet

Dear …Okay Then,

Of course guys and girls can be friends.I have plenty of straight guy friends, and we’re friends for the same reasons I’m friends with my friends who are girls — we make each other laugh, we like the same movies, we have the same low opinion of raisins, whatever.But I have deep friendships with girls that don’t go any further than friendship, because I’m not attracted to girls, and if I’m not attracted to my guy friends and they aren’t to me, that’s…that.We’re…just friends.I don’t really think I understand what you’re asking me, here, unless you don’t get the concept of sexual attraction, in which case you need a dictionary and to go outside more, not The Vine.

As for the Jamie/your best friend thing…would you feel better about it if she’d told you the truth about what was going on?Because that’s why she kept the “liaison” a secret — she knew you’d get upset — but are you upset that she kept it from you, or that it happened at all?Not that you’re wrong to be pissed in either case; you feel what you feel.But if it’s not a romantic thing, you might need to just get over it, at least as far as their hanging out goes, because you can trust her or you can’t — and if you can, then trust her, and if you can’t, then don’t be her friend anymore.I have a pretty firm rule about not mixing it up with friends’ exes, ever, because it’s just too complicated…but if I started hanging out, just in a friendly way, with a guy a friend of mine had had a crush on that went nowhere who wasn’t even her ex, technically, and she flipped on me even though nothing was happening romantically?I’d feel like that was a little much.

I mean, she shouldn’t have lied about it, and I can see where you might feel like she might be lying now, about not being involved romantically — but again, either you trust her or you don’t.

I do think you have maybe some not-fully-formed ideas of how people relate to each other, though, based on your first question, so…you might want to look at where that comes from, because you seem kind of rigid about these things.

Hi Sars,

I’m so confused about these crazy feelings I have. Always having considered
myself to be an introspective person, I feel like moods are attacking me
from all sides!

Well, so the background…I was married for seven years and now am separated. I
was with the guy for ten years. So, two years ago he cheated on me and I was
devastated but I made it through despite being laid off on the same day that
I found out about his affair. It was a crap time. Just when I got myself
together, he comes back and like a fool I accepted. Things were okay at first,
but started to degrade after a year. He seemed to have more problems as a
result of the affair than I did! My issues were never addressed even though
I felt constantly rejected and couldn’t shake it. Whaddya know — I am not
able to forgive and I definitely can’t forget.

So, we broke it off. It was mutual and amicable. I felt relieved. Wonderful
actually, because I did not feel rejected by my husband on a constant basis.
He was gone! I was ecstatic. True, it was two days after my birthday but a
fine present all the same. (Timing has never been his strong point.)

Now, after three months I feel so depressed about myself and am filled with rage
(under no circumstances do I want the guy back though). I had to go out
running last night just to stamp out the anger. Yoga is no help to me. I
don’t want to be sad, I’m 26, I have stuff to do, my life plan is
shattered…I need to get things on track. I wasted two additional years on
him! I have been sitting on my butt for three months. Recently I have been
eating half-price candy.

This is not me. I do not know the person I currently am and I don’t like her
much. What is going on?

Please help!

Stranger in my midst

Dear Strange,

Well, what’s happening is that all the rage you never expressed to your ex at how he treated you and wasted your time is now repeating on you like a bad seafood special.And now you’ve got nowhere to go with it, because calling him up to meet for coffee and then kicking him in the balls on the sidewalk in front of Starbucks is more contact than you want with him.

You want him to sssssssuffahhhhhh, and you can’t make that happen; you’re pissed at him, and you’re pissed at yourself for putting up with him; we’ve all been there.Running and sugar therapy are both excellent ways of working through it, and so is just letting yourself feel feee-YURIOUS for a while and understanding that it doesn’t make you crazy or a bad person.It just means you’re working through it.

You might consider going to a counselor if you’re really feeling bad — it’s interfering with your concentration at work, or you can’t sleep.But don’t spend too much time beating yourself up for the mistakes you think you made with him; just remember them so you don’t make them again, and remember that it’ll pass and you won’t feel this “HULK SMASH!” about it forever.

Dear Sars:

I’ve wanted to write you many times, about many things, but I’m finally doing it now because all my problems seem to have come to a head, and I think they all revolve around this major theme: I am a horrible person.

Almost all of my life, I’ve pretty much systematically alienated, pushed, or thrown away, at one time or another, most of the people who love and care about me. I’m the friend who never returns calls, never makes plans, is always late when plans are made, and takes but doesn’t give. I’m the girlfriend who must have control, and once she gains control, abuses that control to the point that I’ve hurt and changed people’s lives for good by breaking their spirit, cheating, or shamelessly using them. I’m the daughter who has taken, and taken, and taken, who still occasionally falls back on her parents for financial support even though she’s 27, and who almost NEVER goes to see her family even though they live only 15-20 minutes away. I’m the sister who has missed going to most of my little brother’s sports stuff, school plays, etc, because I’m either too lazy or too busy with my own life. I’m the person who judges almost everyone I come into contact with and tells people how they should conduct their lives, while meanwhile mine is falling apart. I’m the person you yell at in Vine replies to quit being so selfish, self-absorbed, and to grow up. I’m “that guy.”

The problem is, it’s taken me this long to finally get it. I beat myself up on a regular basis and always have, but I never really thought I was a bad person at heart, just a fuck-up. I do care about people, I do love my family and friends, I’m very empathetic and understanding to people in crisis, even when they have caused it themselves, and I haven’t done anything that most people probably haven’t done at some point or another in their lives. It’s just that when you look at how I’ve conducted my life overall, I’m a really fucked-up individual.

A lot of the “really fucked up” part has to do with the fact that I’ve dealt with severe, mostly untreated depression since my early teens. I know that you know the crippling effects of this disease, which include total self-absorption, self-hatred, and physical effects like fatigue. I have only recently come to truly accept this as a “real” disorder and that something is physically wrong with my brain. A few weeks ago, I finally forced myself to go to the doctor and got on medication. It had an almost instantaneous effect (whether placebo or not), and I have been feeling better and better ever since.

Now that I’m more on an even keel, I’m able to look at things without the depression clouding and distorting them. And I don’t like what I see. I thought that a lot of the self-judgment and constantly beating myself up were primarily symptoms of the depression, but I’m starting to see that a lot of it might have to do with the fact that yeah, I just suck, and the way I’ve treated people sucks, and it’s finally catching up with me. Through a series of recent events, which I won’t fully detail for the sake of space, I have been forced to face myself, and it’s really scary. Long story short, I cheated on my boyfriend, whom I have been pretty much horrid to for the last few months anyway, and was caught red-handed in a Jerry Springer-like incident. I feel absolutely terrible, because he has been nothing but supportive of me through my depression and trying to finish school, yet it still wasn’t enough for me.

The crazy part is, if you look at me on paper, I don’t sound that bad. I’m getting ready to graduate with a BA in English, am going abroad after I graduate (and have been many times before), have a nice house, lots of friends, and my parents love me without question. But I can’t help feeling that if all the people who do care about me could see inside my brain, they would be disgusted by what they found. I am afraid that this cycle will continue for the rest of my life if I don’t do something about it. I have repeated almost exactly the same behaviors in this relationship as I did in my last, which took me years to get over (but it’s never really been over).

To make matters worse, my ex-boyfriend had been calling me and we had been casually talking, until last night when I decided to tell him about the cheating incident and he just annihilated me. He basically told me exactly how it was, that I haven’t changed, that I never will, and that basically I need to grow up and call him when I had some real problems like the ones he’s facing (major, life-altering stuff). I felt like a fool for confessing my petty melodrama to him.

So that conversation made me realize that I just really haven’t grown up. I’d say I’m on about the maturity level of a 20-year-old, if that. I’m facing major guilt and self-doubt, and I don’t know how to deal with it. Can I change it? How do I change it? I know I’ve been on a self-destructive path because of the depression, but is it something more? Are there some people who are just inherently “bad people”? Will I end up an old cat lady?

My feelings of guilt are nearly crushing me. I feel like people that once cared about me are finally finding out who I really am, and I don’t know what to do. I’ve always thought I had a good heart, but on closer examination, I appear to be the most selfish, self-centered, spoiled brat that ever lived. I always feel horrible and regretful for the things I do, yet I continue to repeat the same behaviors. Am I afraid of love or just an evil bitch? Can evil bitches become good people?

Sincerely,
Overwhelmed

Dear Over,

First of all, I really wish y’all would stop referring to becoming an old cat lady like it’s a fate worse than death, because it’s beginning to bug.Old cat ladies aren’t by definition unhappy.

To the main point: Your letter is…pretty self-absorbed, still, I’m afraid.”I do this,” “I do that,” “it took me years to get over my last relationship” (in which, by your own admission, you acted like a terror), “I feel like a fool”…I don’t need to tell you (or maybe I do) that “sorry for what you did” and “sorry you got caught” are two different things, and in order to try to be a better person, you have to understand the difference.And in order to do that, you have to get outside your own head and try to pay more attention to other people — listen to them, look out for their feelings, be a little more attentive to and careful of others.

Depression, by its nature, makes doing that really hard for a lot of people, so — here we are at the good news — you’re going to find it easier to do that now.Uncomfortable, at first, when you realize that you’ve been self-involved and destructive in that regard, but also better able to avoid doing it again in the future.You’ll be more aware of other people because you’re less caught up in your own unhappiness.

It takes practice, and you won’t be a saint every day — people are by nature kind of selfish a lot of the time and I’m not going to sit over here like I’m running the Friend To Humanity club.But you’ll get the hang of it.Were you a schmuck?Yeah, sounds like it, but who hasn’t been — try to face forward and do better by other people from now on.Try to be more tuned in to how you behave, and why, and the effects it might have.And don’t just get meds; go to therapy, too, and stick with it.Work on things.

Most of us are just trying to figure out how to be good people, every day.Some days it goes better than others; point is, it’s an ongoing battle.Maybe you’re a little late, but better late than never, right?Just do your best.

Hi Sars,

It’s a guy problem, but not the one you think.This is more…a “divorce settlement” question.

Zitbrain and I dated for two years.Then three months ago he left me for someone else (broke up with me over the phone, and said he hoped we could still be friends; let’s just say I was profoundly vocal in my refusal).We both let the dust settle a few days, and then contacted each other to take care of the whole messy “I have some of your stuff I need to get back to you” bit.He’d borrowed a couple books, I’d borrowed a couple books; nothing major.We handled that through his doorman.

The sticky part is, one year previously he’d borrowed some money from me that had still gone unpaid; we were going to visit my parents, and he had just been laid off and asked if I could cover the travel costs and he’d pay me back.I said sure.It wasn’t a huge amount — only $30 (we took the bus).He had more trouble finding work over the next year than he anticipated, so he never paid me back.He asked me to “keep reminding him” until he did; which I did, but he still didn’t, despite the fact that every so often he got some extra money from family and spent it on himself.

So, during the returning-of-stuff phase, back in February, I again mention the money.That month he had gotten a month-long temporary job with a one-time payment; he will be paid in early March, he says, and would I mind waiting until then.I say yes.I haven’t heard anything by the middle of March, so I email him and ask about it.He says he would like to wait until early April, because that money is all gone but he’s just gotten another job.I reluctantly say okay.I email him in early April when I fail to hear from him.Then again in late April when I again fail to hear from him, followed up with a phone call.He responds with an email that he needs to wait until mid-May.

I tell him this is getting ridiculous, that I’ve been more than patient and can’t wait; he gives me a sob story about having been fired from that last job but just started another one and won’t be paid for two weeks and if we were still dating I wouldn’t be “importuning” him like this.I resist the urge to kill, point out that the reason we’re not dating is because he’s proven himself untrustworthy, which is precisely why I’ve been harping on this; and basically say, “I understand you want to wait, but I can’t, so get it together, Jack.”

What I’m wondering is whether I may be getting to a point where I should give up and write this all off as a loss. I’m not profoundly well off, and financially I could be better, but I’ve been worse, and the possibility of not getting that money back isn’t going to do me severe damage.It’s not like I’m thirty dollars away from being out on the street.But on the other hand, thirty dollars is a week and a half’s worth of subway fare to and from work, or it’s a chance to eat out at a nice restaurant once or twice for a treat for myself rather than staying home.Or, it’s a piece of clothing, or a couple books for some research for my writing.It’s not life-and-death necessary, but it’d be pretty helpful to have it.

Also, part of the reason why Zitbrain is where he is is because people have been covering for him financially and not calling him on his nonsense for a long time, and part of why he dumped me is because I started calling him on it now and then.He’s never really been held accountable, by anyone ever, and I really don’t want to be taken advantage of like that; I know he’s counting on my just shrugging and saying “oh, well, whatever” when he fails to pay again, and not ever having to worry about it, and I don’t want to let him get away with it.

But a part of me wonders whether I may be getting too petty about this.Is there a point at which I should just give up on the money, shrug and move on?

Signed,
I Feel Like The Paperboy In Better Off Dead

Dear “Augh…two dollars!”,

…He used the word “importuning”?The next time you talk to him, tell him Sarah wants him to shut up.

…”Importuning”?I mean, God.

Okay, I’m over it.As I’m sure I don’t need to tell you, this isn’t about the money.Yeah, you could get yourself a nice Metrocard O’ Righteousness with that money, but it’s more about your needing to be right, and to remind him of that, and to have you both sitting with that, than it is about the Metrocard.Because…it’s thirty bucks.Also, this: “Also, part of the reason why Zitbrain is where he is is because people have been covering for him financially and not calling him on his nonsense for a long time, and part of why he dumped me is because I started calling him on it now and then.”

You sort of enjoy this aspect of it, because it lets you feel smugly superior after he cheated on you, which — he cheated on you, homes.You’ve got “superior” locked up here.He’s a gutless twizzerp who throws the word “importuning” around.You win.More importantly?Zitbrain’s financial non-wherewithal and inability to hear criticism?No longer your problem.He’s not yours to fix anymore; he’s not yours to show up anymore.He’s out of your life, which is a net gain, and you have to stop caring whether he Gets It, because, let’s review: 1) cheated on you; 2) “importuning.”There’s a lot that dude doesn’t get, and none of it is your job.

He’s not going to get it.He’s not going to figure out how to act right.Bitch dumped you on the phone.Tell him to light the thirty dollars on fire and stick it up his ass, and never speak to him again.

“But –“No.I hear you, but…no.Whether it’s the thirty dollars or the satisfaction of getting him to admit that you’re right, you won’t get what you want out of the situation.Leave it.

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