The Vine: November 12, 2008
Hi Sars,
Given your experience in both the blogging and publishing worlds, I’m hoping you can help me out with some questions about the relationship (or lack thereof?) between the two.
I am a writer who, since about college, has had absolutely no motivation to write until very recently. Within the past few months, I’ve been keeping a blog. Through this blog, among other things, I’ve been working on a new fiction piece. The blog format has been SO motivating for me, first of all because the illusion of an audience gives me a responsibility to keep things flowing (I remember you saying at one point that one of the most important elements of creating a successful blog is posting consistently and often) and also because it’s a pain to go back and edit previous installments so I have no choice but to push forward. So this has been a very exciting development for me, and if it weren’t for the blog format, my current novel-in-progress would not be well on its way.
That said, I have some reservations with which I’m hoping you can help. Does publishing a book via blog in any way affect your chances of getting that book published conventionally? Is there a point at which you should stop publishing the story online and start making it private? Or does it not really matter since so much will change in revision?
I’ve thought about working on some old stuff through my blog, too. I have two nearly complete novels sitting around that I could be working through and posting piece by piece, thereby using the blog also as a motivator to get my act together on revising them. But again I’m worried that that would in some way affect their getting picked up by a publisher. (Which leads me to the sub-questions, if I were to query an agent or publisher, should I mention that the work is online? Should I include the URL?)
Didn’t you have to pull the Famous Ghost Monologues at one point when you were working on putting the show together? But now they’re back on your site. So what were the rules on that? Just wondering how this stuff works. Maybe there isn’t a standard? Dunno.
Also, there’s the obvious fear of someone stealing my work. How do you cope with that?
And one last thing: What ever became of the Subheroes?
Thanks a ton for your help!
Signed,
Young Grasshopper
Dear Hop,
Before I begin answering your questions, I’ll issue the customary caveats: different agents and publishers want and respond to different things; while I’ve got a book to my name, my understanding is that our pitch process with it was atypical; I can only tell you my own sense of these things, but it’s critical to familiarize yourself with and obey to the letter agents’ and publishers’ guidelines for querying.(Dig into the archives at the late great Miss Snark for an overview of what not to do.)
“Does publishing a book via blog in any way affect your chances of getting that book published conventionally?”Ten years ago, having a hot website helped your chances; then, for a few years, pitching a book based on a web property hurt your chances because publishers had gotten burned; now, I think it doesn’t really matter.If you have a proven loyal readership of enough size, and/or your work is marketable and shows some talent, that’s what they care about.The stigma as such is pretty much gone — it’s a question of whether the sales team can position you properly in the marketplace, and a blog can actually help you there.
You want the blog to look half-decent and not be a hot avatar mess, but beyond that, it doesn’t seem to me to matter that much.Non-fiction sites tend to do well converting book deals to print; fiction is harder, but then, fiction…is just harder, period.
“Is there a point at which you should stop publishing the story online and start making it private? Or does it not really matter since so much will change in revision?”Yes, there probably is, but your agent or editor would advise you of when it’s time to stop giving away the milk for free and start marketing the cow.At this point, before you have representation or an inked deal, your focus as far as the blog is best aimed at generating the work in volume.
Jumping ahead to the question of the Famous Ghost Monologues…concurrent with the performance, I was working with an agent to send the FGM out to theatrical publishers.I wasn’t sure what the protocol was, so to be safe, I yanked them.Again, once you get repped or sign a contract, you’ll be told what to do there; I wouldn’t worry about it until then.
“If I were to query an agent or publisher, should I mention that the work is online? Should I include the URL?”Whatever the querying guidelines say is what you should do.If you’re attaching a chapter to the query, you should mention in the cover letter that it first appeared on your blog, but again, take your cues from the guidelines.It’s important information; just find a way to present it that’s not going to go off the rez and annoy whoever’s going through the slush pile.
Re: people stealing your work — it happens from time to time, but not often enough to be a real problem.I have a copyright notice posted on the site, which is the end of it as far as I’m concerned.The attorneys in the readership can give you more detail, or you can Google something like “online material copyright,” but whenever the readers report to me that someone’s passing off my work as their own, a strongly worded letter to the tune of “you’ve got 24 hours to take that shit down and notify me that it is done; cc: lawyer” tends to take care of it.Jump off that bridge when you get to it.
Last but not least, the Subheroes.Sigh.What happened there is twofold: 1) actual Heroes, and 2) paid work jumped ahead of it in line.Heroes is sort of the same structure, and I didn’t want to work on my version knowing that I might unconsciously absorb and regurgitate their version…and unfortunately, I’ve had to put deadline work that editors actually want first.I do still write fiction, and various Subheroes do still show up in it; I don’t know if I’ll ever get around to populating the entire universe.Maybe.If a publisher wants to give me a bunch of money and send me to a writers’ colony for three months, sure.
Hey Sars,
I’m hoping you can offer some advice before I make a trip to my vet.
I recall that Hobe or Little Joe (both?) had an issue with kitty halitosis at one point? I don’t remember if or what the vet’s advice was to you about curing the little bugger’s bad breath however.
Here’s my issue: I have a 7-year-old long-haired cat named Charles who is perfect in every way except that in recent weeks he has developed very strong bad breath. His diet hasn’t changed, he hasn’t been eating “people food,” he’s drinking the same amount of water, he isn’t using the litter box more/less/differently. I can’t explain what could be triggering it.
And the putrid breath is I believe just a by-product of something else that started recently with Charlie — his rumbly, gurgling tummy. You know sometimes when you’ve eaten something acidic or you’re hungry, your stomach will make that loud gurgling sound? Well, I’ve never known a cat to have this issue but Charlie does. He doesn’t seem affected by it at all; he’s not in pain nor is his stomach sensitive when I squeeze it. He’ll just lie in bed with us at night sounding like a rumbling bathtub drain and occasionally emit these little silent burps that smell so bad it almost makes me pass out.
Do you think I should just chalk this up to him getting older, buy a feline toothbrush and see if that helps? Again, none of this stuff seems to be fazing Charles at all and he hates the vet so much that I’d hate to put him (and my wallet) through that experience if I don’t have to. Any advice you could give would be appreciated.
K
Dear K,
I’d call the vet, at least.Both my cats’ breath problems — well, they had bad breath; it became my problem — derived from bad teeth, and once they had the teeth pulled, their breath went back to normal.Liver ‘n’ tuna is not what most people would deem a welcome relief, but it’s all relative.
Charles’s breath sounds like a digestive issue, and because it’s a relatively recent change, you should at least get the vet on the phone — explain that Charles is a particularly bad vetter, and describe all his symptoms in as much detail as you can, providing a timeline.Tell the vet what he eats, and when, how often he gets hairballs, anything you can think of.If he’s not in any pain, you don’t want to make too big (read: “expensive”) a deal of it, but these symptoms could presage something more serious.
Hey Sars,
Over 6 years ago I was in a relationship for just over a year.While we are both good people, we brought out some really bad behavior in each other.When we finally broke up, it was bittersweet, and more out of exhaustion than because of a big blowup.Also, by then I was living in another city, which made the break-up easier.
Since then, we’ve both moved on with our lives. We have friends in common, and when we run into each other we’re friendly, but I don’t think we’ll ever be friends.
Because of the distance, we never did that separation/trading of goods that usually comes with a break-up.About halfway through our relationship he made me a quilt with one of his grandmother’s shawls as the filling. While it’s a beautiful quilt, it seems to me that it’s something that should stay in his family. Even if he doesn’t want it, one of his siblings or cousins might. We saw each other recently at a friend’s gathering, and since then I just keep thinking about how I really shouldn’t have this quilt.
My husband doesn’t like it because it doesn’t fit our bed.I feel weird having it on our bed, and our current place is too small to store it while hoping that someday we’ll have a guest bed to put it on.It’s a reminder of a failed relationship, but the grandmother’s shawl inside prevents me from just giving it away.
So, do you think it’s worth asking him if he wants it back?Going through a mutual friend?Boxing it up and mailing it to him?I still have and use other gifts he gave without any big deal, but a quilt is rather…intimate, especially with a family keepsake inside.
Oh, and if you think I should offer to give it back, pointers on minimizing drama would be wonderful.
Thanks for your wonderful columns!
Have enough quilts that my grandma and aunts made me for my wedding
Dear Quilts,
Send him a short, pleasant email: “Seeing you again reminded me: I still have the lovely quilt you made me, and frankly I don’t feel right about keeping it, because it has your grandmother’s shawl inside.I’d really like to send it back to you — please let me know your current mailing address.”Resist the temptation to equivocate, reassure him that it’s not emotional, or anything else; keep it to the family keepsake and the fact that you think he should have it, not you.
If he says yes, you send it back; if he tells you it’s a gift and he wants you to keep it, or he has other things to remember Grandma by and it’s not necessary, then just give it to Goodwill or keep it in the back of the linen closet in case you have cold-weather guests.
You could also just send it back without asking first, but that might come off somewhat abrupt.Send the email first; don’t overexplain.
Tags: boys (and girls) cats etiquette workplace
Speaking of the Subheroes, whatever happened to the GBC?
…okay, that was a crappy segue, but damn I miss those entries!
I don’t know where K lives, but K may want to investigate the possibility of a vet who makes house calls. Yup, they do exist, and some vets make a specialty of it – they normally travel to your home, rather than you to the office.
I’m looking into it myself at the moment. I have two sneezing cats, and no really good way to wrestle them into a lion cage and sherpa them to the vet’s (my diagnosis: a shot in the butt apiece, followed by antibiotic. Pink, cherry-flavored antibiotic. Because cats in the wild normally dine upon cherries.). So it’s something that K may wish to check out in her/his city.
@K I know your question isn’t about the vet themselves, but my mom’s cat hated the vet and would freak out the vet (he had a bad experience at the vet where he got very sick after one visit and associated extreme badness with the vet)–like had to catch him in a net once. She eventually switched vets and explained to the new vet that he had a rough time at the vet. The new vet was patient. They did shorter visits to begin with by skipping some less essential steps, lots of kitty praise, and now he’s okay at the vet and can get through a whole regular exam (its not his favorite, clearly, but its no longer a painful experience).
@Quilts I think you would just want to emphasis that you just want to return the quilt because of the possible sentimental reasons (the grandmother’s shawl). Not in several gushy sentances, or course, just pointing out those things specifically. You wouldn’t want the guy to think you expect him to send you a return box of gifts that you gave him or anything.
Agreed. Must have GBC back. Pleeeez!
Re: the blog publishing thing:
It’s possible that copyright/publishing standards have changed in the last few years since I was researching that kind of thing myself, but I was always sternly informed by various writing sites that publishing a work of fiction on a public site (even if it is only read by a few people) IS publication, as far as your first rights are concerned. And not only that, but we all know that nothing on the internet ever dies. I can’t imagine a publisher being thrilled that a book they’ve spent thousands of dollars editing, printing and promoting is floating around for free online. Books BASED on online content (derived from a website, for example) are a different matter, I’m sure, but if I were this writer, I would be VERY careful about posting a novel publicly. Getting a book published is difficult enough without bringing up unnecessary complications. Some editors might not care but the major, traditional ones probably will.
If the work is not publicly accessible, that’s different. If the work changes significantly between blog and editor, that’s different.
Here’s a brief article on the topic from an sf editor. I expect the literary side and other genres to be the same.
http://www.kith.org/journals/jed/2006/10/20/3708.html
Google “first publishing rights” or “First North American Serial Rights” for better information. My advice would be for this writer to at least do some serious research before she posts any more. It may not matter, but why risk it?
I’m curious about Young Grasshoppers website! Is it bad form to ask her for the link? I’m always looking for time-killers at work . . . .
Hear Hear on the GBC entries. There are so many new potential members out there that need a fort to run to!
I dunno. “Subheroes” didn’t really seem anything like “Heroes”. It seemed more like “super-temps”, in a way. The World’s Most Unique Contracting Firm. I kind of liked the notion that these people weren’t really superbeings; more like Rain Man only for things other than math.
PS I’d like to see some more kitty pictures!
Quilts: I recently experienced this from the other side. My exboyfriend emailed me to say he’d found a pair of my late grandfather’s gloves (which my grandmother had given him), and would my new fiance like them?
Time will tell if he actually sends them, but I very much appreciated the email and the gesture. Neither of us has much use for formal dress gloves–and they’re not something I would have gone after *him* for–but if they’re going to sit in the back of someone’s drawer, I’d prefer it to be mine.
@K:
I’d absolutely call the vet. He might tell you to bring Charles in, he might tell you to buy a toothbrush, but, as Sars said, sudden bad breath can be an indicator of something more serious. A friend recently had to put one of his cats down because of a prolonged, undiagnosed kidney problem that he’d just chalked up to “cat breath.” Your kitty is probably fine, but it’s worth it to be sure.
For K’s Cat,
Be prepared to bring in a stool sample for the vet. Of the cat’s I mean. They may be able to find something out without you having to bring the Charles in for an exam, which he would probably think is a good thing.
I miss the GBC as well, but I can see how the thing might fizzle out once you’ve put these guys through so much embarrassing crap. Once in a while I’ll read those entries again, just to enjoy the rose-colored apple-pie innocence of a group of grown men flying off bike jumps on pink two-wheelers. It’s like a coke-addled version of the Sandlot.
Re the blog publishing thing. There are other perspectives on that-John Scalzi’s “Old Man’s War”” was first published on his website and Tor acquired it after that. He did take it down when it was purchased, but Patrick Nielsen Hayden acquired it that way. Also, Cherie Priest’s first book ‘Four and Twenty Blackbirds” same thing. In fact, both of those writers ended up with the deals because the editors read them on the websites. For further reference
http://whatever.scalzi.com/ search Old Man’s War
or http://www.cheriepriest.com.
Just some thoughts from the publisher/editor side of things: There was definitely a time when I would say it was a no-no to have the whole book available online. And certainly if (and hopefully when) you get a book deal, it would be best to remove the book to the best of your abilities. That said, in this age where more and more authors are managing to sell their self-published works, we are aware that this may not be the first time the public is exposed to the work. In those instances, our goal is to get you wider distribution and coverage (and of course, sales) than you could get on your own. So I wouldn’t say it’s a deal breaker.
Of course, do your research (EditorandPublisher.com is one of many great resources). Also, on the even more technical side of things, one of the things publishers like to be able to do is sell things like first serial rights–basically, a publication pays to get an excerpt before the book goes on sale. The book being on your blog may negate that, but this wouldn’t necessarily be a deal-breaker. Keep writing whatever way works for you and know, even though it’s a cliche, all an editor wants is a great book. We’ll deal with any up or downsides to get a book we really like.
@K – re: vet-hating. This may be projecting a bit, but we had a vet that one of our cats hated. H-A-T-E-D. We assumed this was just a cat thing (we had adopted her as an adult, and she had “issues”). Well, she got Very Sick, and this particular vet turned out to be a real a-hole. “There’s nothing to be done, you should just put her to sleep.” We walked out, found another vet. Turns out, there was *plenty* that should have been done – it was kidney problems that were extremely advanced due to the time wasted at sucky-vet. Anyway, the cat looooooved the new vet (would purr when he walked in the room) for the remainder of her days. So they can be good judges of character.
In any case, yeah, definitely I’d call the vet. Those types of changes are concerning in people, should be the same with a four-legged friend.
For Young Grasshopper, we always recommend that our authors not post their work on their websites, as it then becomes published. It’s one thing to give away a tease or an excerpt but if the whole story is out there for free, how is the publishing company going to make any money off it?
I would definitely advise making the blog posts that contain the story private, but don’t be afraid to promote your other posts that still show off your writing style, as many editors will look at that, too (as will readers, who will then look for your published works).
Good luck with your quest to get published!
@Jennifer: Sigh. I said editorandpublisher.com. I meant publishersmarketplace.com.
Grasshopper: If your blog is a LiveJournal, just friends-lock it, and you’re golden. If not, then move it to LJ and lock it. Then your audience just needs to request to be granted access. They don’t even need a Livejournal account if the have an Open ID.
New Media is slowly but surely changing the playing field, and more and more data is showing that giving your work away online actually increases book sales. In the SFF genre there are several examples of people who have done this and eventually became respectable published authors. As for having your work ganked, Corey Doctorow, one of the above examples, actually published his fiction online under a Creative Commons license, inviting fans to share it and play around with it. So it’s certainly not unheard of, and is becoming more and more an acceptable way to build an audience and get noticed.
But I would still post it on a locked LJ, to be safe. The publishing sea-change is nowhere near complete.
Also, I heartily second reading Miss Snark.
Ditto what LaBellaDonna says (great name, btw!)
My beloved vet does house calls. The cat who’s all hissing & clawing & hiding in cupboards at the vet’s office sits calmly on the vet’s lap when at my house. So much less stress on the beasties!
But Charles’ sudden change in tummy sounds & aroma indicates a change in his digestion…please do a vet visit as soon as possible. I’m glad he doesn’t seem distressed, but I didn’t even know cats burped until I read your letter…I’ve never seen mine do it!
I’d just ship the quilt with a nice note. It’s hard to argue with a note.
Also? What liz says…is it bad form to ask? Would we feel unfaithful to Sars by reading grasshopper?
@Grasshopper: I would say that it either doesn’t matter or it’s too late. Some publishers won’t care that it’s on the Internet, although they might ask you to take it down if it’s going to be published. Others won’t even look at it since it’s been on the Internet–but there’s nothing you can do to change that, other than not put it on the Internet in the first place.
One thing you could conceivably do is write another book. (Yeah, I just toss that off like it ain’t no thang!) What I mean is that you treat the existing blog stuff as a learning experience–and also a form of advertising. Meanwhile, you write another book which you keep off-line, and submit THAT; mention, with your submission, that writing samples from another work are available at http://www.so-and-so.com
@Reading Grasshopper: The only problem I see with linking Grasshopper is that Sars will be instantly deluged by “HEY SARS CAN U LINK ME STORY PLZZZZZZZ”
Yes, I have to agree about the GBC….I’ve almost worn out the CD I bought from you – I can almost repeat it verbatim! Need more!
@K: Just because your cat seems to be acting normal doesn’t mean he’s not in pain — my cat had a similar problem recently and he turned out to have inflamed gums and two loose teeth that must have been extremely painful. I didn’t notice the change in behavior because it was so gradual, but once he got them removed he was obviously MUCH happier. He’s not a huge fan of the vet, but getting him there was worth it.
@ Grasshopper (again) what Joe Mama said is pretty much what I’m planning to do with my current NaNoWriMo project that I’m procrastinating on right now. I’ll give it away for free to build myself a (hopefully loyal) readership, then try to sell my next novel. I’m also thinking about podcasting it, which is another avenue you might look into. Several novelists have gotten their books discovered that way, and gotten pretty decent book deals out of it. Scott Sigler, for one, his the NYT Best Seller list with his book that started out as a serial podcast novel. You do give up your rights to publish an audio book, but that tends to be less of a deal breaker for some publishers.
Quilts – Oh, man. One of my good friends went through a really, really bad breakup a couple years back. About a month after they split, she got a package in the mail with some of her stuff, plus every gift she’d ever given him. Included in this was a quilt she’d made him that had been on his bed, so when she opened the box it immedieately smelled, well, like him. I’m sure this isn’t your intention, but for my friend it was this cruel insult in the form of a practical gesture. The grandmother’s shawl thing is kind of tricky, but I have to say that he made the quilt for you specifically, as a gift, and even if he did take it back it’s not like he’s gonna re-gift it so someone else, it’s too personal. So, yeah. It’s a tricky situation. definitely ask him, but if he doesn’t want it back, just accept it.
“About a month after they split, she got a package in the mail with some of her stuff, plus every gift she’d ever given him. Included in this was a quilt she’d made him that had been on his bed, so when she opened the box it immediately smelled, well, like him.”
That is cold. It sounds like your friend is well rid of that guy, Emmy. Also, maybe I just get confused when there are cat-care letters and relationship letters in the same edition of The Vine, but I read that last part, and at first I thought maybe the guy had, well, marked the quilt with, um, Ex-Boyfriend Tinkle.
I’ll show myself out.
@ Sandman – No i’m sure the smell on the quilt was just ‘him’ smell – cologne, soap whathaveyou… and possibly it was not something he realised since men don’t seem to be as sensitive to smell as women (which explains why I have walked into some male bedrooms and immediately reeled backwards choking and gasping ;-)
He probably just put the quilt into the box with no thought of perhaps washing it first and sent it off.
Truthfully the Ex has probably forgotten all about the quilt he gave to Quilts if he hasn’t asked for it back already, but since it’s something so personal I would say that giving it back would be the right thing to do.
Snerk!
Sandman is too funny.
@K –
I spent most of yesterday at the vet with one of my three cats; he has always been in great health, and then suddenly yesterday morning he started showing what turned out to be signs of cardiac distress. His care is costing me a fortune at a time when I don’t have a fortune to spare, and he also hates the vet, and I’ve pretty much been crying since yesterday morning, but I figure I’d cry a lot more and have a ton more guilt if I hadn’t made absolutely sure that I took the best possible care of him.
What I’m saying is, in a long-winded way is, I hear ya, call the vet & see what they say, and I hope it’s just a minor gastrointenstinal issue that can be cleared up quickly and easily. Hope it goes well!
Sandman – Thankfully no tinkle, though I suppose that would send a clear message about what he thought about the relationship! And yeah, as harsh as it was, I was kind of relieved they broke up. The phone conversation went thusly:
“Hey, so you should know I broke up with J-”
“THANK GOD, I HATED THAT DOUCHE! Please let us go drinking now.”
@Emmy: Hee. How to tell when your friends have been holding their collective breath.